LogFAQs > #977678653

YoukaiSlayer posted...

Then why tell that story as a game in the first place?

Because they want to. Simple as that.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

Ultimately, the thing being talked about here is a game so the gameplay should come first.

And you're complaining about entirely the opposite of that: That the story needs to validate the gameplay at all times. If gameplay comes first, gameplay is its own reward and you shouldn't need the story to remind you that your numbers have gotten big. You yourself said (to paraphrase) "if the story doesn't constantly tell me how awesome I am, all that gameplay in which I became awesome was just pointless busywork in the way of that story."

YoukaiSlayer posted...

That too is quite annoying. This doesn't even require overleveling. Often times the enemies that are supposed to be tough just aren't as tough as some other enemies that are supposed to be average. That should be avoided as much as possible. You need to think of the fact you are making a game, not just writing a book.

Avoiding that either means creating different cutscenes based on your performance in each fight (which is ridiculously labour-intensive), never having the party respond to how difficult a battle was (boring, interferes with establishing the stakes well enough for battles to feel meaningful), or taking away the player's ability to grow at their own pace (which means it stops being an RPG altogether). Alternatively, you can just accept - as most players do - that sometimes you'll get inconsistencies and move on with your life knowing that that's just a quirk of the medium. Given that anything other than the latter would be extremely limiting, I'm happy to go with that.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

If the ground or a river start kicking my ass, I'll complain too

What do you think walking around a mountain or having to find a bridge is? You walk around the mountain because you're too weak to go through it. You look for a bridge because you can't swim well enough to cross the river without one. And you lose to unbeatable bosses because you're not strong enough to beat a plot device. It's a static part of the game that you'll never be able to beat. Failing to beat it therefore isn't a real loss any more than you should feel humiliated by having to find a bridge.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

I was refuting your point but you can have him roll into town saying he will destroy your town and he's already destroyed the last 15 towns and you've been dealing with his lackey's and refugees from the previous towns if you want an example that can easily work and not be boring.

Or the lazy but classic he comes to town and destroys it while you are gone. You come back to burning rubble and dying loved ones and vow to either get revenge or stop him from doing this to anyone else.

And those are both failures on the protagonist's part, so we're back to protagonist failure being essential for an interesting story.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

It doesn't have to be easy. Even if you brutally struggle through, if you won, you expect to actually win. It's frustrating when that doesn't happen.

Properly balanced, you won't win unless you've deliberately broken that balance somehow (in which case, that's on you). Not all games with scripted losses balance them properly, and there are examples like Xenoblade 2 where you actually have to win the fight but the cutscene still plays out like you lost, but those are examples of it being done poorly and I'm not trying to defend those.

YoukaiSlayer posted...

This is the level of writing we are trying to protect?

Well, yeah. This is an anime/manga/JRPG topic, after all. The trope of fighting the big bad and getting an edge over him, only for him to say "I guess it's time to start taking you seriously" and immediately winning isn't exactly original, but it does help to establish the big bad as a legitimate threat at a personal scale instead of just some nebulously powerful evil hiding in a distant castle. I don't mind that. Not every story has to be completely original and avoid cliches at every possible turn.