LogFAQs > #976784869

Someone else chimed in on some of the issues with this solution

these are good resources for the most part..but I personally still am not convinced that a two state solution is practical, fair, or even negotiable at this point questions remain for me: who will draw the borders? Will "Israel" as a state continue to exist with the same govt, same zionist ideals, or will it somehow be decolonized/replaced by a different governing body? Who would govern Palestine? Will Palestinians be allowed to return to their ancestral land and homes freely? Will Jewish people around the world still be able to find refuge in Israel? Will Palestine be offered reparations and assistance with rebuilding?

Ultimately - What will keep the peace, essentially? what will keep Israel (or Palestine for that matter) from continuing to have armed disputes over land?

Imo i think a more appropriate solution could be closer to a one state solution + something like the landback movement in the states. Or at the very least if there is a 2 state solution, providing dual citizenship to Palestinians for them to come and go as they please.

Also of course i think reparations are in order.

Still at the end of the day, i don't think the existential threat to Jewish life is at all fabricated or a bogeyman - jewish persecution has a long, bloody history and is entirely based in reality. Jewish persecution and antisemitism in the diaspora is a major reason for the continued existence of Israel. And with the current global rise in antisemitism, i think it's important to consider what can be done to both consider jewish safety while ultimately centering the freedom & independence of Palestinians when talking about the final solution.

I am not suggesting that Palestinians in general pose a major threat to jews, or even want to harm them, and of course I would not blame Palestinians for feeling furious or vengeful or violent etc due to
Israeli apartheid/colonialism/genocide. But I still am hesitant to endorse any solution that may bolster antisemitic conspiracies or beliefs, or enable further coordinated attacks on Jewish civilians. At the other end too there are absolutely Israeli jews that hold resentment toward Palestinians/Muslims/"Arabs" in their hearts, or are flat out racist/islamophobic, either due to a sense of supremacy, Israeli/zionist propaganda, or just in response to the 10/7 attacks/other antisemitic hate crimes or some sort of combination, and they have shown that beyond just military action, islamophobic/racist civilians are also willing to commit hate crimes against their Palestinian neighbors.

Im in no way trying to assert that they're both just as bad as one another. Israel is the clear "bad guy" here and there is NO excuse for the genocide, occupation, and apartheid committed against Palestinians. Never ever. Their continued occupation of Gaza /West Bank and heinous war crimes were absolutely to blame for the existence of Hamas and the attack on 10/7. But I am at least hoping for a resolution that can keep the peace and mitigate risk for Palestinians and Jews alike. And at the end of the day I don't think a two state solution will accomplish that.

I'm open to discussion on this because i am far from an expert, and am just some random American with opinions lmao. It's just not clear to me how a 2 state solution would work but I'd like to hear other viewpoints.

In my opinion...

who will draw the borders?

The border will pretty be much the ones negotiated already by Olmert and Abbas in 2008. The establishement of the borders will be a slow process whereby palestinian enclaves are allowed to connect and expand.

Ultimately - What will keep the peace, essentially?

In the west-bank, a neutral UN peacekeeping force. In Gaza, Hamas. The military blockade will remain for some time, but with much improved economic aid and access. Isreal and USA will maintain complete security of Isreal-proper.

Will "Israel" as a state continue to exist with the same govt, same zionist ideals, or will it somehow be decolonized/replaced by a different governing body?

Israel will remain a jewish zionist state within the 1967 borders. I've never liked the idea of an ethno-state, but it exists now and we just have to accept that.

Imo i think a more appropriate solution could be closer to a one state solution + something like the landback movement in the states. Or at the very least if there is a 2 state solution, providing dual citizenship to Palestinians for them to come and go as they please.

This is completely off the table, even though it would be ideal for many. But the reality is Israel wont integrate all palestinians because they would become majority muslim. They will end up in a muslim state and that is, for them, the end of the jewish state. That's why a one-state solution is or binationality not happening.

Will Palestinians be allowed to return to their ancestral land and homes freely?

It would not include the full right-of-return. All peace processes so far have only included the 'local' palestinians. That is, those living with westbank and gaza. There are a further 5 million refugees dotted around the outskirts of Israel. They tend to get excluded from the proces unfortunately. I think they should be allowed to return - slowly - to the west bank, but not allowed to return to Israel. It's not perfect. It's not truly just. But it will be much much better for future generations.
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A 2-state solution is tough but not impossible, and its the only solution aside from genocide. So it really doesnt matter how difficult it is, we just need to accept it and stop prevaricating.
I would hope that Saudi Arabia can stump up some cash for this. They have an enormous pot of money for infrastructure projects ($800 Billion!!). Currently, they are wasting it with the dumbest projects you could possibly imagine. Check out these dumb projects: https://youtu.be/YkJupJRTcoA?si=mJl36KxRoRYr2BPe
Just one of these projects - 'The Line', will cost a Trillion Dollars! And it will all be wasted. MBS, spare a few Bill for regional stability wont you??