Lurker > averagejoel

wasn't he the same dude as Proudclad? because if so he's still around, though I don't remember what the name of his latest alt is

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I feel like forcing them to go to university might actually exacerbate the problem -- some would definitely get involved in fraternities (even more "brotherhood" stuff). it would also make their required classes significantly less enjoyable for the people who wanted to be there.

I know my sister took a Soc class about policing. because of the way it was set up, a lot of the people in the class wanted to go to the police academy (I don't know the specifics, but it was some sort of requirement). they really ruined the class for her

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he also helped fix bread prices so that millions of canadians were paying way too much for bread

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Tupacrulez posted...

What are all of you gaining by trying desperately to change my mind?

Like I said,one article from 1999 or so, and I'll say I was wrong.

an article from 1999 or so, using data collected in 2017? that sure seems like a reasonable request to me

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it's also important to remember that one reading of a film does not negate other readings. it can (probably) be read as an allegory for certain trans issues. it can also be read many other ways. they're just different ways of looking at a work of fiction. the key is whether or not the reading is supported by the text. in this particular case, there is a hell of a lot of trans imagery in The Matrix, so there's probably a valid reading of it as such

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Tupacrulez posted...

If I'm looking for proof of God in the world, I'll find lots of things that I can say are "imagery of god"

Doesn't mean God exists.

The people combing through this stuff looking for any little thing ("oh my god the red pill is estrogen and the blue pill is to calm you!") are doing so with an agenda.
Amoxicillin comes in red pills too. Is that relevant?
The most prolific blue pill in the 90s (and indeed, likely ever) is taken to give you a fucking hard-on.

It's just people with a narrative.

there are a lot of right ways of looking at this. yours is not one of them.

if someone were collecting data for the purposes of, say, researching a link between eating [food X] and developing [illness Y], would you be upset if a table of the data showed a clear link between them? because that's much more directly analogous to what the twitter thread is doing

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Lorenzo_2003 posted...

If that is true, then this whole thread has been much ado about nothing.

the film is "about" a group of people trying to free humanity from a simulation and one man who has the power to help them do it. we aren't talking about that though

factually speaking, The Matrix was created by two then-closeted trans women. as you can see (if you've read that twitter thread), there is a lot of imagery that relates to trans issues.

the findings are not de-legitimized just because the person was looking specifically for trans subtext

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MC_BatCommander posted...

Just gently bring up the actual procedure and discuss why so many people are against it, try to get them to understand how fucked up it is.

Cats are surprisingly easy to train, especially kittens.

not to mention that many cats actively enjoy having their claws trimmed, and you can use a regular nail clipper

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he killed a homeless person on live TV in '87

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Tupacrulez posted...

"So, I thought I'd watch The Matrix looking for trans subtext"

Says right there. Dude was looking for it. I don't know how to say it any clearer.

yes, I'm aware. and there was a lot of it. that thread is not making an argument; it is the compiling of the data.

vigorm0rtis posted...

That's how shoddy literary analysis works. You can 'prove' anything using softheaded postmodern nonsense.

and the thread isn't trying to prove anything. it's only showing the trans subtext in the movie

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Tupacrulez posted...

And since it's been posted by people specifically looking for that trans imagery, they have a clear bias and narrative.

What I'm saying is, if someone said, in 1999, "hey this film is filled with transgender imagery", I'd buy it.
But now it's just people looking for it.

that's... how literary analysis works dude. essays start with people doing a close reading of the work in question while paying attention to a specific aspect of it. the person was gathering data.

the imagery is all there in the movie. the person on twitter is just pointing it out.

like come on, this is basic stuff that people learn about writing literary essays in high school

this person wasn't even making an argument to begin with -- they watched the movie while paying attention to the imagery associated with trans issues, and they found a ton of it.

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Tupacrulez posted...

The issue with Al that is that is an analysis with a narrative to adhere to.

If there's a contemporary article detailing it, I'll say you're right.

Till then, it's people looking for shit to follow their idea.

what are you talking about

the thread is literally just showing trans imagery. complete with many screenshots and explanations

and... it seems like pretty ordinary note-taking for literary purposes to me

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monkeysRfunny posted...

I swear to god this sounds so familiar but I can't put my finger on it

it's a bit like a combination of Josuke's Stand and the female CP9 member's (Khalifa? was that her name) devil fruit

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Manocheese posted...

People spending their time and money helping others for reasons other than profit? You mean charity?

do you really think those wealthy people are donating all that money out of the goodness of their hearts?

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Tupacrulez posted...

Nope. I don't either.

Please retroactively explain.

this thread on twitter does a good job of it

https://twitter.com/supership79/status/764646652665790465?s=19

it get cut off at one point, but the thread resumes here:
https://twitter.com/supership79/status/764926673682857984?s=19

short answer: there's a lot.
some selected bits:

the first shot of the movie opens with "trans opt" written prominently on the scene

Agent Smith deadnames neo throughout the movie, and does so because he knows it bothers him. neo always looks uncomfortable in his usual work garb.

the character Switch was originally going to be a different gender outside the matrix than inside it. she's wearing a binder when we first see her. also her name is Switch lol

lots of medical imagery when Neo is getting accustomed to his new body

mirrors, a common source of dysphoria for trans people, recur many, many, many times throughout

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vigorm0rtis posted...

I'm not inclined to put a lot of stock in postmodern analysis. It's occasionally interesting, and while conjuring up new meanings for art that wasn't intended might have personal significance for us individually, I'm not sure it has any merit.

Pepys Monster posted...

I think that this is a bit of a stretch. They wanted to make a sci-fi movie.

do either of you have any idea how much imagery in the matrix relates to trans issues?

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Maze_ posted...

The way people bend over backwards to justify why they don't give to charities and why charity is evil in insane ways just so they don't feel like jerks has always been puzzling to me.

It's charity, you don't have to do it, that's the entire point.

But pretending Charity is anything other than amazing just because you're too lazy to help others is madness.

There was just a huge Earthquake in Albania, many have died, thousands have lost their homes and all their poesssions.

I'm not a rich man but I helped pay for dozens of homeless people there to live in a hotel (that is overpacked for the record) until the crisis is over.

Israel is sending aid, the US is sending help, UAE is airlifting supplies, the EU is sending support and doctors.

you look at that and go "Oh this is evil, we should all just leave them to die and suffer because other causes exist too and it's a whim" WTF?

What ass backwards logic is that.

those are not the grounds on which people generally object to private charities. read the first post

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<a onclick="return show_quoted_message(400, 78239019, 931327961, '3b565724');" href="/boards/400-current-events/78239019/931327961"><a onclick="return show_quoted_message(400, 78239019, 931327961, '3b565724');" href="/boards/400-current-events/78239019/931327961">legendary_zell posted... </a></a>

They are when concentrated wealth is used to hold communities hostage by tying their jobs to not exercising worker power through unions or threatening to leave if they have to pay a living wage to employees. It's bad when that wealth is used to distort the political system through campaign donations, access buying, and warping where society can even seek funds from. It's bad when the wealthy use their influence to pay for custom made laws like they do through organizations like ALEC. It's bad when they use their concentrated wealth to purchase news organizations around the world and limit news that could challenge their power. It's pretty bad when they pay for fake studies that downplay the damage their money generating businesses are doing to society and the planet or when they pay to suppress true science.

None of that could happen without the extreme concentration of wealth and it all seems pretty negative to me.

There's no jealousy involved, that's simply a reflexive talking point that the wealthy have you spouting for free. Concentrated wealth paid for that rhetoric and you're not benefitting from it.

keep in mind that you're talking to Proudclad

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the elements in Avatar don't really work rock-paper-scissors style like that

I think the rest of it has been explained pretty well

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DevsChum posted...

I suppose a few unspoken notes in the film script isn't quite a Chinese knock-off action figure, but like I said, if you watch the movie, it never comes up, unless there's a shot of a sign or something that I'm just forgetting.

it comes up in episode 2. Anakin goes to talk to Watto, his former owner, to ask about his mother. Watto says he "sold her to a man called Lars." he freed her and married her.

if memory serves, Owen Lars was the dude's son from before he married Shmi.

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ChrisTaka posted...

Anakin had no idea he even had kids. He wouldn't just go up to some general and be all like, "I need you to look for someone who might not even exist."

he also hated tattooine and didn't want to go back there. he probably wouldn't have wanted other empire people digging into his past either, so they almost certainly wouldn't have been there on his orders.

tattooine is something of a remote nowhere planet. that's also why obi-wan was able to hide there so long

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it's a pretty common harmonic progression

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it's used in this piece

I think the most similar bit starts at about 0:58
edit: forgot the the link lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRh-dzrI4Z4

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Bernie - Tulsi is the best option on this list

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ledbowman posted...

I think the movie assumes you will put it together. My view of it is kind of skewed because before I saw the movie, I read the novel which explicitly tells that she is amidala

it's said explicitly in episode 1. she says "I am queen amidala"

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I've never seen her show, but based on her name she is a woman who is not white. my first guess, then, is that she got review bombed by right-wingers

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un-Jessica Biel-ievable

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he's already campaigning on "at least I'm not Trump"

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it's also worth noting that Cuba, a country much poorer than Finland, had completely eradicated homelessness. with some things being privatized under Raoul, it has re-emerged as an issue.

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ssjevot posted...

Here's a better question, if someone said they were a neo-Nazi would you take them seriously? Why would you take seriously someone who says they're a neo-Stalinist then?

that is not a better question. it is, in fact a bad one. I don't believe I've ever typed anything remotely close to the phrase "I am a neo-Stalinist" before now, but feel free to prove me wrong.

ssjevot posted...

Finland has solved homelessness by providing free housing and provides welfare to cover all essentials, let me know when one of your red fascist states manages that.

cool. homelessness is one of many issues I care about. they have not solved all of the others as well.

now, which oppressive regimes have I said are better than Finland?

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ssjevot posted...

You look at oppressive regimes that solve none of the problems you claim to be concerned about. Then you look at countries where people are free and happy and have solved the problems you claim to care about. Then finally you conclude the oppressive regime is the better one.

that's gonna get a [several citations needed] from me

which countries have "solved" the problems that I care about, exactly? and which oppressive regimes have I said are better than them?

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apparently they're being taught cursive again now?

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ssjevot posted...

Socialism is so sustainable compared to capitalism that capitalists can apparently just make them collapse every time. Seriously if you want to lick boots there are also no shortage of regimes you can move to to get exploited at. Why have free housing in Finland when you could be a malnourished slave in North Korea?

you addressed literally 0 of the points I made, and didn't answer the (very simple) question. are you looking for a conversation about this or not?

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ssjevot posted...

But anyway, there are no shortage of societies that provide for basic needs for people, it's just all of them happen to be capitalist.

capitalism is unsustainable by its nature. it cannot exist without an exploited underclass. sometimes that underclass is outsourced to another country.

welfare state capitalism is no different. even now, the welfare states in scandinavian countries and some of europe are weakening.

in addition, the largest military power in history has historically done everything in its power to ensure that socialist states couldn't sustain themselves. do you think that might have had an effect on the ability of those countries to provide basic needs for their people?

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ssjevot posted...

That's objectively not true. You're focusing on basic goods and defining scarcity around that. Outside intellectual property all goods have real existing scarcity. Imagine everyone wants a spaceship for example. We could put the entire world's economy toward building rockets and it wouldn't be possible to make one for everyone. I picked an extreme example because it's important to understand that when we talk about economics we're talking about the system for how you deal with people's unlimited wants with a scarcity of resources. We can't give everyone everything they want for free because of scarcity. Economics isn't defined around just basic goods, it's unlimited wants, not needs.

personally I would love to live in a society where the most pressing issue was allocation of spaceships

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I was expecting Drake and Josh

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is there some sort of social events going on in your area? community band, dance classes, second-language practice sessions, cooking classes, community hikes? anything?

things like that tend to be great places to meet people

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what's that in regular temperature

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03 is overall the better story. the tone is more consistent (brotherhood has way more of those corny shounen jokes) and the concept for the homunculi is way more interesting.

that being said, Brotherhood is still good

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there are lots of great feminist and/or LGBT+ movies

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short answer: racism

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Bob Ross was a military guy though

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wasn't this basically Hillary Clinton's strategy in 2016?

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LolTownz posted...

Why is per capita emissions meaningful in the conversation where our per capita emissions could go to 0 and China would still bring about climate change?

the combination of your username, posting style, and karma vs account creation date, is making it very hard for me to believe that you're not a troll account.

you also still do not show any evidence that you know what the Fallacy of Relative Privation is. until you do, I will assume that you do not want a genuine conversation, and will not engage with you further.

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LolTownz posted...

Because the total emissions figure is that much higher.

what you are doing here is called the Fallacy of Relative Privation. sometimes called the "appeal to worse problems fallacy"

I suggest you google it before continuing this conversation

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LolTownz posted...

Just so you all know, averagejoel sided with China in the Hong Kong controversy and ignores China's human rights violations whenever the subject of its death camps comes up

Should tell you enough to understand why he's angling hard for "per capita emissions" instead of looking at numbers that matter, like total emissions.

why do per capita emissions not matter?

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StealthRock posted...

China has a lot of rural areas

What are the over all emissions?

China has about 4 times the population of the US and about 2 times the total carbon footprint.

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--Zero- posted...

Pansexual I still don't quite understand because bi sexual people shouldn't have any issue with transgender when it comes to attraction. Some straight and gay people don't so I don't see why bisexuals would and why the term pansexual was created to separate the two.

the difference between pan and bi is not as clear cut as some people would have you think

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12Medz86 posted...

Or move to a socialist country?

sure. that is one option. for some people

but not everyone speaks the languages that are commonly used in socialist countries. there are other barriers too

plus some people might prefer trying to improve things where they are rather than somewhere else

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12Medz86 posted...

Why take in part of something you do not like?

because it is the dominant global economic system and most people don't want to live in the woods

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