Lurker > Meow1000

htaeD posted...

Honestly when I saw Wallz flip I was worried about Sbell first because his odd behavior around Corrik and Blade was fresh in my mind.
But a day1/2 reread might eliminate that fear based on what I see all of you saying already.

I've said it already. SBell and Isquen constantly try to lynch me, much like Lopen. That's why I intended to nudge at them when the day started. All three of them play with obvious bias towards me (though I don't think SBell realizes it). I had no fear at all that Chang would kill me yesterday. SBell, Isquen, or Lopen all instantly kill me without even asking me to claim first. SBell doing it isn't a big tell.

But Wall was basically using SBell like a human shield against me. Almost everything he does with SBell ties SBell's alignment directly to his own. He acted as if I suspected them for identical reasons (I didn't) and it all sets up so when SBell flips Wall can turn it against me.

For Wall to come right out of the gate and tie himself a scumbuddy is very hard to picture.

As I noted on the Knightz lynch at some point, Wall isn't adverse to early bussing at all.

There are definitely some people I'm more comfortable just removing in general for example. Kirby/Chang/MZero/Ulti are the four most untouchable right now

SBell is a recent example of someone I would definitely consider high "out" of the POE: Wall's pattern of behavior regarding SBell early in the game is nearly inconceivable if they were scum together.

Also we've had no godfather type role flip so cop scans get taken with a grain of salt by default unless we get one.

That's just some "already in bed and Nala is purring" musings and yes Nala is actually purring I can hear the rumbles.

Anyways real talk. I'm paranoid there's exactly one person outside of the general consensus "poe" that's scum and I'm really not sure who that person could be. There's valid reasons to townread most players in the game to some level. Somehow that kill actually managed to knock off one of the only people in the game who there wasn't any sort of town case for, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the other guys that lacks a towncase is protection. This kind leaves me wondering who the crap is actually left and a feeling that we're basically going to run out of our conventional "POE" before the game is actually over.

Would say it kinda doesn't feel like a day we should let go by idly regardless of how far ahead we are right now.

Leafeon13N posted...

I dont think he did that to open the day, is what i was saying. I knew what he was doing in the moment.

I would argue Corrik spent most of the early day continuing to lightly prod at me

By the way.

Maple Leafs.

That is all!

Cross blocking rbs always roleblock each other's yes.

Corrik7 posted...

So they must not have a ninja either.

Wall flipped a role that could trick a tracker or watcher into thinking he was a different player.

That's basically ninja on steroids.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Have you seen these night kills

One was fired by a guy who was trying to get caught sending the kill but got roleblocked instead and one was lol

We actually have no idea who scum attempted to kill night 1.

But sidebar

Does anyone have any reason to think Red is town at all

Corrik7 posted...

I doubt anyone here knows that even if true. Just like when you were scum you said everyone knows I never claim miller day 1 cuz I think it's dumb and you were scum.

So using that as a reason no one would ever roleblock you night 1 trying to block your action as scum is dumb. And I didn't block you with intention to block your kill anyways, it was to block you period from acting and then seeing the no kill.

Dude the first thing Ulti did was quote me when I said "lol Blade ever firing a kill night 1"

I'm too important to take that risk. I know it. Ulti knows it. Quite a few people know it I'd wager.

And sure it sounds elitist but that Bloodborne team doesn't win without me so yeah.

Corrik7 posted...

I still don't see why you wouldn't have sent the kill. You keep saying that but like why couldn't it have been you? People rely on good people like crutches and try to scan obscure people. But, even so, like... why would you assume a town roleblock existed? Let alone two of them?

I don't follow the why you couldn't have sent the night 1 kill.

Because I don't fire a kill unless I am forced to pretty much ever.

PeaceFrog posted...

Corrik, Blade is not being less stubborn or dickish than you.
You're both being obstinate.

Our motives are completely different.

Corrik isn't claiming to be petty.

I'm not claiming because I don't think it's in town's best interests to. The less scum knows about what I do, the likelier I am to be effective. If scum wants to shoot me, let them.

PunishedBen posted...

To out the real blocker. The doctor. Kill the Blade. Whatever you can manage to do on your way down.

Why, as town, would you be so confident that you block saved the day over anything else that you would out yourself as roleblocker? Your intention was clearly to claim before thinking

The core issue is still the same

"Lol Blade sending the day 1 kill". Town Corrik shouldn't have any reason to immediately assume he blocked me from sending a kill.

Leafeon13N posted...

My biggest issue with corrik is I'd expect him to come out swinging for blade here.

I dont think we've seen that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

His argument was he blocked me from sending a kill. That argument is dead. The problem I have is Corrik refuses to actually make a scum case on anyone. He basically stopped playing the game after he claimed.

Corrik is correct in that his actions don't make sense as scum. The problem is they don't make sense as town either. He's made zero attempt at working with anyone to solve since the start of day 2. There isn't a single justifiable reason to refuse to claim here as town, but it's hard to think of a justifiable reason why he wouldn't claim as scum.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Oh you said leave it there

I should finish reading posts before i excitedly respond

Given I have zero knowledge of this flavor I don't really have anything to add to the discussion.

But we're kinda nearing a point where so many people are towning other people that it's nearly impossible to even have a POE and that actually makes things feel murkier.

Leafeon13N posted...

Anyone have good reason to townpile MI?

I don't have one for MI

Or for you

What's made me that little bit paranoid on Ben is how easily he seemed to town read me and stick with it.

But yeah it's definitely interesting that we basically got to the exact same point that about SBell to start the day.

Though speaking of Death, he and Peaf had an interaction right at the end of day 1 that I remember.

PeaceFrog posted...

Lmao

Well good work everybody. Have a great evening. We should all be proud of what we've accomplished in the last 48 hours.

htaeD posted...

Get of your high horse Peaf

PeaceFrog posted...

The one time i tried riding a horse i nearly pissed myself.

Camels, though, now they're a good time

I don't think this is a scum/scum interaction. Scum Knightz/Wall are both leading voters and Peaf makes a snide comment. Death isn't the type of guy to immediately confront a scumbuddy here. I don't think it even crosses his mind.

cunningplan.ytmnd.com

When's the last time I linked that site wow

PeaceFrog posted...

Wallz and isquen didn't really move their votes around on d1 so there's not much update to see there.

Like i said yesterday before the claim info, i think that me, red, and mi are reasonable top suspects for today.

I don't understand the reading of death as town. Sbell checks out based on ben's logic. I'll trust Kirby's read on ben. Igcd is basically flying under the radar with the exception of his "last vote" gag

Death felt no nonsense town with a hint of genuine annoyance yesterday

Yep my guess was Kirby was about to claim a roleblock on Corrik. I don't understand why Corrik didn't just claim it though, as it seems to serve absolutely no purpose to hide it.

Kirby321 posted...

I don't expect anything less from you, but I find it appalling that you openly spit on the "play to win" spirit of mafia. I don't like it when Ulti or Lopen get petty and throw the game for it, and you're an arse for refusing to interact with the game as if you're a superior player and we're all simply beneath you.

If you're town, Corrik, then be transparent here. I know you're hiding something. You've got nothing to lose by just telling us.

The primary issue I've had with Corrik is behavioral. At no point yesterday did he ever seem to really be doing anything to add to the game. He mostly just ignored everyone else and kept parroting himself the same way he did with Wall for a lot of day 1.

Is it technically "possible" we're both town and some scum role somehow interfered.. I guess?The underlying issue Corrik has been acting like caught scum since early day 2. He's basically the Anti-Knightz where he's giving us absolutely nothing. Right now he's just saying we shouldn't lynch him without claiming an action and without giving an argument for lynching anyone else because the argument he spouted on me all day yesterday is now invalid.

PunishedBen posted...

ULTI

These are all his posts that led to me first calling him "spicy this game".

I think it was only the most minor of town leans for coming out of the gate acting different from last game where he was passive. And then I ran with it because it was funny.

I'll take the opinion of everyone else and stop calling him that until he proves it again. I guess Its not a good thing that he immediately starts with an excuse for his absence lol

So basically I called SBell and Wall potentially scum for different reasons and Wall TMIed SBell town whereas Red voted him

Did Red ever give a reason at all?

Corrik refusing to give a night 2 action is as nonsensical as the rest of his claim.

Like even forgetting alignments where is the endgame supposed to be here

PunishedBen posted...

He's worth a re-read because i don't quite remember myself.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The only thing I can remember yesterday from Red was shading Corrik and questioning anyone who trusted him but not actually questioning anyone specific

PunishedBen posted...

If you read Wallz reactions to Knightz, it looks to me like scum pretty quickly decided it was not worth keeping him for his role and his presence would only cause him to out the whole team

I mean, look at this post.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6b85aed9.png

What's interesting about this point is it perfectly flows with the point I just made that it seems pretty clear the ones defending him the most were town.

Honestly I just haven't gone back to read any of his posts again because it practically feels like an unfair advantage

Forceful_Dragon posted...

How obvious would you be willing to be in order to save Knightz role long enough to start using it? Maybe the sacrifice of wallz was losing momentum so that became the hail mary pivot? B8 Specials are a pretty regular occurrence so they must have counted on something else forming.

It's theoretically possible. I humored the idea of lynching MI, but I found I didn't trust the lynch itself and I felt more confident on Wallz. I feel like MI either had no scum on him or multiple scum on him. They either committed to that push or they didn't.

The interesting thing here is with Chang being town and me being town (it would take a special level of failure to miss that I'm town at this point), it basically means the ones most directly defending Knightz were town. It is conceivable that instead of defending him, they fanned trains on other scum who were weaker. For example, Corrik spent a long time saying to lynch Wallz without ever really giving reasons.

PunishedBen posted...

Alright, since you already decided it, I'll say my second town clear was Sbell. I was holding off since you said you wanted to pressure him today.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e9ec85e1.jpg
Multiple times throughout the day, Wallz bundles Sbell with himself WHENEVER he talks about Blade and whenever he talks about himself. He speaks so openly about how Blade suspects himself and Sbell. Refers to them as "us". It reads as though he wants to be associated with Blade having "a bad read on a town player".

If Wallz and Sbell were scum together I dont think he would be so open about recapping it this way.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/54029464.png

Wallz keeps stating the fact that Blade's suspicion of himself is contingent on Sbell being scum with him (I dont think it even was). But the point of this is that Wallz is using the fact that Sbell will flip town as a way to exonerate himself and cast off all of Blade's suspicions. Mainly as a way to convince the rest of the game. He is not just going to keep reminding us that Blade wants to murder BOTH of them if they are BOTH scum.

Sbell is town

Yep.

Basically everything I nailed Wall on day 1 and theorized on day 3 is accurate. Wall basically turned SBell into a human shield.

PunishedBen posted...

I agree with this list except I'd move Ctes and FD up to probably just town. And then probably put MI people back into the bottom tier because paranoia.

So let's move past Corrik for a moment.

That pretty much means your immediate POE is MI/Peaf/Red

Peaf and Red both voted MI on day 1 in that late countertrain that got him to without 2 of Knightz, so the three of them are directly connected by that moment.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Do you consider JK to be a "saving" role more than a "roleblocking" role?

I mean obviously, it does both, and maybe it's just semantics but in my head I've always classed it as more of a Roleblocker than a Doctor. It can only save if it targets the person being killed, but it can block anyone, town or scum so long as they have an action.

So sure it gets factored into the protection when you're trying to figure out the balance, but I wouldn't consider it a full on doctor replacement.

Also in this particular instance you didn't even prevent a kill from the healing properties of your role, you prevented a kill from the roleblocking properties.

But don't mind me and my semantics <_<

I view Jailkeeper more as an offensive protection role than anything. JK pretty much doesn't go defense unless it's damn sure it's targeting right.

Kirby321 posted...

Yeah but I'm claimed Jailer. I'm protection. Protection that roleblocks, granted, but still protection. And I've already stopped one nightkill, so I'm really not sure why I'm alive.

Crazy Lopen rabbit hole conspiracy theory probably says that scum expected me to jail Isquen, so by shooting Isquen, they could frame him. But it feels far simpler to just kill me.

Scum is not going to waste a nightkill just to try to frame someone for a lynch when they're already this far down.

Counterpoint: lol Blade sending in a kill night 1

Leafeon13N posted...

They are hunting for scanner actually. Cant really shoot for much else.

I thought we had JK claim or did i lose track of something?

Kirby is JK who blocked Wallz

Kirby321 posted...

Um... hello? The doctor is right here.

Why the fuck am I still alive and what deranged scum team kills freaking Isquen?

I should be happy that we're in an absolutely fantastic position this game and that I blocked a nightkill, but I'm so puzzled at this scum team. Especially if they're responsible for Lopen's disappearance.

Anyway, housekeeping. Corrik, as the person with currently the most votes right now, who did you target with your roleblock last night?

There's a low chance of only one protection role in 19.

But issues with Corrik's claim aside, two town roleblockers is basically unheard of.

changmas posted...

frankly isquen dying made my immediate first thought some kind of bus driver type situation

Isquen dying made me think the scumteam had a chimpanzee pick their kill at random

Ulti's explanation does make enough sense to me though.

But like

wallmasterz posted...

I can practically smell Leas teardrops at someone being criticized for not having content on the very first page of the game, but we are on page 2 now so its time for zero jokes, fun or pleasantries.

Ive long prided myself on being able to read sbell because I was consistently right about him until the last game we played together, choose your own flavor mafia. Generally speaking, engaged sbell is town sbell. He did a good job blending last game but none of this is pinging me at all.

My bigger takeaway from this is it feels like you Blade are either scum or a little bit cocky from 100 games of mafia and you feel like you can always find scum on t1p1.

ALL HAIL

Also yeah SBell moves up to tier 2. Wall avoided the topic originally and only chimed in on it when I forced him to. He called him town for "being engaged" which completely ignored my original question that he refused to answer in the first place. He then went right back to the sidelines which I later voted him for doing so.

This reads to me like scum Wall just straight up telling me I was wrong about SBell.

(And if we do kill a kidnapper at some point and Lopen returns we all know he is immediately derailing the game by trying to lynch me no matter what)

Lopen doesn't feel like the kind of guy who would want himself kidnapped as scum I would argue.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I was so close to considering Isquen. No scum team would ever shoot him, I said internally.

That would have ended poorly. And so, we add Death to the list instead. Good job, Death. Welcome to not being PoE.

Lopen and Isquen, the two players who embarrass themselves at mafia on a daily basis, both out of the game.

It's a godsend.

Death after day 1 was on the fringe of my immediate POE

Death after day 2 was pretty solidly out of my POE

PunishedBen posted...

I know Ulti will say Ctes is already confirmed town, but some of us here have to work for our reads

The second person I think Wallz makes clear is town....I will save for later!

Is it me because he hilariously overreacted the second I put pressure on him and started acting like I think I'm some sort of day 1 god

But wow I actually catch one early day 1 maybe that SK game rubbed off on me

UltimaterializerX posted...

I am so good on day ones that I nailed him before he made a single post.

I nailed him on post #51 being scummy as fuck deflection for the early game

Just shy of page 1 damnit

Man Wallz was still being scummy as shit even when I wasn't there

PunishedBen posted...

Thats not even close to most of the game

Because not even close to most of the game is actually "confirmed".

You have MZero, Chang, and Kirby in their own tier. "Near certain town"

Death, Ulti, IGCD in the next tier of "Probably just town"

Ben, SBell, MI in "I want to trust but Paranoid" tier

You have Corrik as scum

And then we have Ctes, FD, Peaf, and Red as people I currently feel in no particular way about.

Corrik7 posted...

Noticing a trend at 24 hours of death or taking control of lynches btw.

Chang took control about 5 hours previously. He made it clear he was not going to wait 24 hours out of fear of what happened to Lopen happening to him.

The fun part about Chang is what I mentioned yesterday. The game is dotted with random Chang suspicion. Like I was told I should suspect Chang for the things I was suspecting Wall on early day 1 when they were completely different things. It feels like momentum towards him was constantly in the background but I never bought into any of the "Hey why not suspect Chang" that kept floating around.

Look into the people that kept floating Chang's name and you've got a decent chance at finding scum.

Corrik7 posted...

See how Blade keeps lying. I said clearly once Kirby jailkept wallz that blade is lying as any alignment but nonetheless lying.

It's interesting.

You've already accused me of trying to 1 for 1 you before soooo

PunishedBen posted...

I'll give Kirby the benefit of the doubt for now. Seems like he would the obvious kill choice tonight, especially if scum had a strongman. But he can't possibly expect to claim jailkeeper and stay alive till end game so.... he's 99% town. And the fact it looks like Wallz was a ninja who had to make the kill to frame someone, it does make it more likely Kirby actually blocked the kill yesterday

Kirby being alive and Isquen being as Ulti presumed, a likely doctor hunt, suggests that scum simply does not have the ability to kill unblockably. It's possible they did and wasted it on Lopen day 1.

Kirby had no reason whatsoever to bus Wall under the circumstances of yesterday. He's town.

PunishedBen posted...

Here's the thing, Corrik going after Wallz on day 1, continuing into day 2, looked like a bus before we even flipped Wallz. Corrik never actually explains why Wallz is obvious scum. And when asked to on day 2 he said "Never mind the post I thought I didn't like from Wallz actually looks good to me now. " Then continues to call Wallz obvious scum lol. Its such an attempt to make us exonerate Wallz were we to kill Corrik yesterday. Because surely his own scummate wouldn't go after him that hard

I called Wallz out as scum on day 1 for two independent reasons, but the second was that he was specifically continuing to ignore SBell and I's bickering. Wallz' behavior makes me believe that SBell is town, but SBell's behavior yesterday was clearly gunning for scum's preferred course of action, so I want to nudge him today.

Also Wallz got hilariously defensive the moment I suspected him to start the game.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Blade, the Isquen kill was a doctor hunt. They cannot win this game if I keep running around confirming people. They have to break the loop with blind hail mary shots.

I mean I guess that makes sense. They shot a vanilla squarely in my POE though my god what a kill.

But like let's break this down.

Knightz dies.
Kirby blocks the kill.
Wall is going to die when Kirby claims.

Corrik is claiming I'm scum trying to 1 for 1 him.

Why in god's name would I try to go for a 1 for 1 as scum effectively down 2 members without a single dead town in the game.

If anyone can figure THAT out, I salute you.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lets just resolve this today since were so far ahead.

##Vote: Corrik

Corrik is just about confirmed scum at this point, but we should give it some breathing space first. He can't argue that I was blocked sending the kill anymore, so he's just going to argue I put an absolutely ridiculous target on my back for no reason on day 2.

The only thing I do there as scum is not confirm or deny anything to leave my options open. As it stands, I've already almost claim locked myself.

I can't think of any conceivable motive scum me has to straight up pick a fight with Corrik when about to be down 2 players.

I do want to pressure SBell though. It's very clear I was the best lynch for scum by a mile yesterday.