Lurker > HaRRicH

redrocket posted...

Are one-minute plays actually a significant medium in some areas (outside the classroom) or are they just convenient for discussing hypothetical scenarios?

I've been a part of a one-minute play festival and see people sharing them sometimes. They are not common, but it beats reading a ten-minute generated play for these experiments.

Also, lots and lots of one-minute monologues are out there.

I appreciate everyone's feedback from my previous topic! Just finished leading a small two-hour workshop on this and think we learned a lot about the gray areas, so here's one more topic. I'm following about the area that led to the most division.

---

THE AREA OF DIVISION:

Let's say I wrote the first five lines and the last five lines of a one-minute play. Can I ethically use generative AI to help me segue/tie/write those ten lines together and still say I am the playwright?

---

AN EXAMPLE (I didn't actually write any of this but let's say I did for this example):

Title: "A Cup of Serendipity"

Characters:

EMMA: A curious and free-spirited young woman.
JAMES: A reserved and analytical young man.
Scene: A cozy coffee shop, with a small table and two chairs.

EMMA: (enthusiastically) So, James, let me get this straight. You're telling me that we're all just cosmic collisions of atoms, swirling around in a vast universe?
JAMES: (leaning back, sipping his coffee) Well, in a nutshell, yes. Science suggests that everything, including us, is composed of tiny particles interacting with each other.
EMMA: (leaning forward, eyes sparkling) That's incredible! It's like we're all connected, just floating through space, destined to cross paths at this very moment.
JAMES: (smiling, amused) I suppose you could see it that way. It's the beauty of serendipity, isn't it?
EMMA: (grinning) Absolutely! Here we are, two atoms colliding in this little coffee shop, sharing a moment of cosmic wonder.

[Prompt I can suggest to get a segue: Give me five examples of dialogue regarding how this beginning and end can be connected.]

EMMA: (gently) James, let's embrace the magic of this moment. Let's take a leap of faith and trust in the serendipity that brought us together.

JAMES: (pausing, contemplating) You know what, Emma? You're right. Sometimes it's okay to let go of our calculations and simply embrace the unknown.

EMMA: (smiling warmly) Cheers to that, James. Here's to the beautiful chaos of the universe and the unexpected connections it weaves.

(They clink their coffee cups together.)

JAMES: (grinning) Here's to serendipity and the countless adventures it holds. I'm glad our atoms collided, Emma.

EMMA: (raising her cup, playfully) And I'm glad they chose this cozy coffee shop to create our own little universe. Cheers, James. To serendipity!

(They share a heartfelt toast and the lights fade out.)

---

[Other points of discussion: What if it was just two lines being added? Or just one line? Or it just suggests a general vibe of what could be said for me to then create by myself? What if there was already a written section here and I asked AI to rewrite it for a smoother transition? What if it suggests rewrites to my beginning or end and then I discover the best segue for myself? Does changing the size of this story change the amount of help I can receive? Should I still be able to put my name on this as my own work? Should I still be able to submit this for producing and publishing opportunities? Should I still be paid if this assistance won me money?]

On a scale of 1-10, can't score higher than #1.

On a scale of 1-10, can't count higher than #10.

On a scale of 1-10, my weight could not be recognized.

SEW's video is enough for me. I don't need to play it but he is so good with videos.

The game gave me LISA the Painful-like vibes. Is that accurate or no not really?

That meeting reminds me of a time my last job brought us together online for a team-building exercise to talk about WHAT LAWS WE WOULD BREAK IF WE COULD GET AWAY WITH IT.

I let everybody else go first. When it got to me, I guilted all of them for coming together to talk about committing crimes on company time. They doubled down on me seeking an answer, and I eventually said I wished smoothies cost two dollars less.

They laughed but I think they got more mad and disappointed at me. They should have been mad and disappointed at us having a meeting based on that.

All that's to say some companies have been embarrassing in their failure to change with the times post-pandemic. That job had a poor understanding of work culture post-pandemic, and they lost 12% of their employees in three months just from going from 100% to 90% WFH...and that 12% were right to leave because they couldn't justify the purpose of an office anymore. If it doesn't have to be done in person, don't make people change to do it in person.

Anyway I work 100% WFH again elsewhere now.

BetrayedTangy posted...

Also hot take here, but King of Red Lions > Epona.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

How is that a hot take?

One is a character, one is an item.

Boooooooooooo.

Right now in this topic people liking Zelda 2 is ahead of people disliking it by eight votes...and right now in the other LoZ-topic about the worst mainline Zelda game, Zelda 2 is winning by three votes.

LoZ is a damn good series.

This topic is wrong though but that's fine.

One bump.

This poll's teaching me this game probably turned some opinions around once you could save state and rewind.

Sign of its difficulty, certainly. I got deeper feelings on its kind of difficulty, but I don't know that the numbers speak to that.

Anyway, on topic I never respected Zelda 2. Didn't like it upon release on the NES, and while I got much further on the 3DS thanks to save states I also very much stayed frustrated with it. I think there was something hidden late in the game that got me tired of playing at that point and I was already using a guide.

I wouldn't mind seeing Nintendo try a thoughtful sequel to the formula again with modern sensibilities. I just didn't like it as is.

Yeah, all I remember was somebody was ahead for most of it but then blew it in castle 8 significantly enough for you to make a sweet comeback. S'all good if that's not enough, it's all I got.

The match. Ah well!

Paratroopa1 posted...

I lost a very unsatisfying and frustrating round 3 match to bkpkt_patrick in the most recent Zelda 2 Randomizer tournament so right now I hate the game

Speaking of LoZ randomizers, can you point me to that one LoZ1 randomizer where you made a ridiculous come-from-behind victory? I remember making a topic and cheering you on during it, and you said it was crazy that was the video I randomly chose to make to cheer you on with. I liked those early days of the LoZ1-randomizer best!

Your latest playing of the game, not your first.

Inspired by another Zelda topic.

squexa posted...

1. Breath of the Wild

No pressure tomorrow, Tears of the Kingdom.

I don:t need a playthrough topic, I just want to know your build later if/when you play it.

Seanchan posted...

Lets not forget about La Bouche!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz9a_KuuD8g

1) Yes, the song is legit.
2) I want to be the safari man behind the bars dancing.

Epyo posted...

The question is, is it better than the early 90s Ace of Base singles? Tough call for me.

Ace of Base uses their music to tell the vibe of their stories nicely, like the doo-do-doo-do-dooo-doo-do-dos in The Sign and the sax in All She Wants That piano-hook in Another Night is just so hard to beat though. I'm taking Another Night over any individual Ace of Base song, but Ace of Base has more singles that hit both then and now. The Real McCoy had other good songs like Run Away, but they don't quite hit the same way.

Both bands have men that feel slightly out of place in their music.

https://youtu.be/Pav2f4b-1ZE

I just don't feel like this song gets enough respect when I bring it up with people in conversations or random playlists. I used to listen to the whole album when I was younger, but this was the banger from the CD.

SMO had to get to the point where it was working my nostalgia for me to like it lots.

LoZ:BotW had to get to hang gliding for me to like it lots more.

Breath of the Wild wins.

Lolo_Guru posted...

can we get odyssey 2 for this Christmas plz?

I'm asking Santa for Galaxy 2 HD.

I competed at a storytelling competition today. My story was about birds and their bullshit. It didn't win anything. Sad day!

So, I put the story into ChatGPT for analyzing its feedback. Some of it makes sense, but some of it just shows how little it "gets."

1. "For example: "Clarity: Some parts of the story are unclear or confusing. For example, it's not clear why the protagonist was attacked by the goose in the first anecdote. Consider providing more context and details to make the story clearer."

ChatGPT has never faced a goose head-on before. It has much to learn.

UF8 posted...

do people view commissioners as artists is the real question

MZero posted...

This is more like commissioning someone to make a logo and then claiming you made it

Rereading the topic, I think I overlooked these posts...this is a fair argument. I've got commissioned art, and it is obvious to both me and the artist that I did not create art in commissioning it. Generative AI feels similar, minus me financially paying the right to ask for it or call it my own. One of the pieces is digital art and I bought full permission for whatever edits I want with it, but I never have enough to envision saying I now created that art -- I just edited it. I also have a painting that is just obviously not my own work when I asked for it.

Still looking for the gray areas here though...how much must I paint over the painting before I can call it my own? Probably can't just paint my name at the bottom, probably can't just trace over it or paint by numbers over it. Can I reenvision the same image in a different way -- this realistic-looking oak tree now has a cartoon palm tree painted over it in the same canvas, for example? Can I even use that canvas at all for anything anymore?

Similarly tying it back to writing with AI, can I change every line enough to follow plagiarism laws and call it my own? Can I change every single word but keep the same story and call it my own? Once the act of copying and pasting is done, is there ANYTHING that can done to it that allows you to be the creative author anymore?

This topic has gotten me hooked.

https://youtu.be/6b5xW907WRQ

Found an excellent video from March that, by virtue of being recorded five days before GPT-4 released, may already be out of date.

This is much more about the big picture of AI than just writers, but some stuff still seemed relevant:

https://youtu.be/xoVJKj8lcNQ

"First contact was curation AI. Second contact: creation AIgenerative models, all that."

"The last time we had non-humans creating persuasive narrative and myth was the advent of religion."

Graph: ChatGPT reached 100,000,000 users in two months. For comparison, the next fastest service to reach that milestone was Instagram at about two and a half years.

Graph: "AI Develops Theory of Mind" bar graph: none in 2018, barely in 2019, like a four year old in 2020, ??? In 2021, like a seven year old in January 2022, and like a nine year old in November 2022. AI experts just found out in February 2023 AI has theory of mind.

WHAT IS THEORY OF MIND ACCORDING TO POPULARMECHANICS.COM: The ability to impute the mental state of others would greatly improve AI's ability to interact and communicate with humans (and each other), and enable it to develop other abilities that rely on Theory of Mind, such as empathy, moral judgment, or self-consciousness.

foolm0r0n posted...

The real issue though is, imagine if aliens came from space and gave us a magical box that did the same thing as Midjourney, and the aliens also gave all previous artists $5 mil so they never had to work again. Can people now use the magical box and call themselves artists without an ethical issue? I think people would still feel like something was stolen there, since people feel that the struggle of practicing and creating art is synonymous with humanity itself. The mere existence of this box is a threat to humanity. This is artistry ethics and everything eventually comes down to this.

I generally agree here, though I would note the artists are still free -- in fact freer than ever in this example -- to make art. Their competition would be steeper than ever since on top of the world's writers you now have AI content both competing for audience's attention and filling up gatekeeper's inboxes...but also in a world where they did not have to focus on money anymore, their focus on art does not inherently get lost in that.

foolm0r0n posted...

Problem is that we've been reducing the struggle of art using tech forever. At every step the "defend humanity" sentiment has come out. Photoshop has had AI functions for years, tools that are trained on others' art, and other kinds of automatic algorithms. That's its entire value. But our generation is quite accustomed to those tools since we still perceive that it requires lots of artistry to make something good. That was obviously not always the case, there were big controversies in the past too

Agreed. Is this big AI controversy fundamentally different from ones in the past though?

colliding posted...

Using an AI to get inspiration isn't inspiration. It totally skips the step of inspiration. I'm not saying ideas come from nothing but to me there's a distinct difference between reading/viewing a text and asking a computer to generate one for you.

Counterpoint: there was a period a few years ago where I asked people for titles to plays they would want to see. I then wrote those plays out into ten-minute formats. Was I not inspired when I asked for titles? Do people giving me those titles not count as inspiration from them to me? Does that make my plays that came from this uninspired?

Going a little further here, but a friend of mine later did a similar thing except he asked his friends for both a title and a basic plot for the story. He then wrote those stories. Was he not inspired when he asked for titles and plots? Do people giving him those titles and plot ideas not count as inspiration from them to him? Does that make his plays that came from this uninspired?

Are these situations inherently different from asking generative AI models for titles and plots?

GuessMyUserName posted...

I can't see the argument that these implementations will create more opportunities when there are blatant cases like these where you're fundamentally getting rid of the need for actors. You can say oh they still have to manipulate the AI's voice just right but that's already a thing directors do guiding talents so what's actually added? and AI can certainly refine that to require less and less work

I agree this will lead to fewer humans being hired. Humans will still be hired and there will be jobs built around working with the AI, but I do suspect there will be a numbers-impact...and we're just a few months into the tech reaching the public like this, too. Smartphones came out fifteen years ago and now they check your heart-rate. The video game industry returned almost forty years ago with the NES, and now we have virtual reality. Movies have gone from Citizen Kane to Everything Everywhere All At Once. Part of that's to say the future is unpredictable, but also part of that's to say technology usually just gets better which I expect AI to do too.

Jakyl25 posted...

These questions always boil down to me as fundamentally should we put harnesses on the potential of the universe to preserve human dignity? Which is tough to answer.

As someone with no dignity myself, I chose option 4

squexa posted...

I keep seeing these discussions in relation to art, but not other topics, even though artists aren't arguably even the most directly affected.

Is it ethical to use a customer service AI chatbot based on ChatGPT/Bard/etc that replaced a bunch of human operators? What about using a law office that replaced most of their paralegals/legal assistants with AI? What about using a website that makes money by using AI (trained on potentially non-open source/copyrighted material) to give targeted ads to its users?

Is it specifically art that people have ethical concerns about or do some people think AI (or AI trained on non-open source material) in general is unethical?

The concerns are far broader than just art, and I have wondered for years about how cut-throat call centers will get when the technology allows it to shrink their industry back down. I just know theatre better than call centers and know I'm not teaching anything soon on how it's affecting call centers, thus the focus in this topic.

While my personal interest is not always in getting more and more powerful -- I don't like it in guns and cars -- I'm usually the minority in this point and don't really expect society to go backwards there. So, to that point...it becomes an interesting question of when we choose to use it and when we don't.

Johnbobb posted...

if you're profiting off of it or using it to build reputation as an artist, I'd lean against it 95% of the time

What does that 5% look like for you?

KamikazePotato posted...

Honestly every argument I've ever read in favor of AI art has always come across as some weird attempt at a 'gotcha'. Like people cannot seriously believe that inputting commands into a prompt counts as making art. There cannot be this complete fundamental divide on a facet of human culture and the intent behind meaningful works. Either they haven't thought about it very hard or they just don't appreciate art in the same way other people do.

It's weird to me. I truly don't want to see writers replaced by AI and regularly believe human art beats AI art because AI struggles to look back theories and patterns to find humanity and entertainment. I agree with your general feeling -- I just spent almost four hours playing with prompts to share five examples here to help find the levels of grayness in this conversation. I never really felt like I was creating during that time, just like...crafting. I don't know that the feeling matters as much as the action here, right, but I don't want to ignore the feeling is different.

Also though, if I look past the broadest feelings of "I am making art and not just words," there are things under the hood that are murky. One example is when is it okay to take a suggestion? If you are getting a play produced with a theatre and you take a suggestion an actor has for changing a line, you did not just lose your ownership of the written work -- they are getting paid by their theatre (ideally, rabble rabble). Similar thing over lessons you learn from the rehearsal process and feedback you get from talkback sessions. If you carry that philosophy over to generative AI models, in that sense, it fits a similar mold and can be seen as just about the same.

But I think you and I are on a similar page in that it doesn't feel the same. It's still machinery at work for instant answers, and that is still weird.

I dunno. I feel like a lot of this conversation comes down to how much people need inspiration behind their content. I think having an inspiration is truly the better way to go and I'm not FULLY impressed with its generative abilities in creating one-minute plays here, but I do like how it poses feedback to me when I seek feedback on existing work. Does that diminish my original inspirations? Does that turn my original work into something less ethical? Can you get truly inspired after starting with a generated answer first? It's a messy conversation.

Example 5 out of 5: I have a one-minute play and sought for AI-assistance on rewriting it.

One of these versions below is my own. One of these versions below is AI-recommended after six prompts of me following up on advice it offered. Those topics included how to develop the characters, add conflict, tighten up the dialogue, and clarify the message.

ALYX: I never realized the risks you took for us to date.
KRYS: We met at a protest, not a minefield.
ALYX: A 2020 protest though, plus you still had to sneak away from your parents.
KRYS: That was the actual minefieldhad to tip-toe my way out.
ALYX: You also had an essay due the day after we met, right?
KRYS: Yeah, kinda gambled with my DACA scholarship.
ALYX: But we had fun when you weren't being so anxious.
KRYS: Just couldn't tell my boss why I was so tired the next morning.
ALYX: See? Busy bee living that risky life.
KRYS: I suppoooooooooooose.
ALYX: Hey, can I ask you something?
KRYS: Yes, and then pizza.
ALYX: Does being a Dreamer add much risk? I just, uhnever thought to ask you sooner.
[Krys smiles.]
KRYS: You still dont realize the risks I take. All cheese, please!

ALYX: I never realized the risks you took for us to date.
KRYS: Yeah, it was a wild ride.
ALYX: We met at a protest, right?
KRYS: Yeah, I had to tip-toe my way out of a minefield just to be there.
ALYX: And you had an essay due the day after we met?
KRYS: Yeah, I gambled with my DACA scholarship a little bit.
ALYX: But we had fun, right?
KRYS: Definitely, even though I was anxious about everything.
ALYX: I guess being a Dreamer adds a lot of risk to your life, huh?
KRYS: You have no idea. But it's worth it to fight for what I believe in.
ALYX: I support you, always.
KRYS: Thanks. You know, sometimes it feels like no one cares about the challenges we face.
ALYX: I care. And I know there are a lot of people who do too.
KRYS: I hope so. Because we need all the support we can get.
[They smile at each other, then turn to order pizza.]

Do I now have two versions of this script or just one? Is it ethical to use any of the edits the generated script shows? I liked some of the questions from my follow-up prompts more than the actual rewrite here -- is it ethical for me use that feedback to inspire my own original writing? And because my curiosity is strong, which one is better?

Okay I'm done making examples, just thought these might help provide anchors for conversation if we were looking to get more concrete.

Example 4 out of 5: I've written half of this one.

Prompt #1: I've got half of a play. Can you help me finish it?
["Of course! I'd be happy to help you finish your play. Can you please provide me with more information on what you've already written, what you want the play to be about, and any specific help you need? That way, I can assist you better."]

Prompt #2: WHO SPITTED ON MY BISCUITS
a one-minute play
based on a true story

[Lights rise -- it's Earth, but an unknown year. Carmichael McMango takes off his astronaut helmet to prepare for his biscuits and gravy. Horace the velociraptor slides that plate with his tail to Carmichael as she smiles in anticipation. A window is open by the stove.]

HORACE: Best. Breakfast. Ever.

CARMICHAEL: Thanks babe. You know my favorites like nobody's business.

HORACE: And now that I have my favorite fork back, it's time to dig in.

CARMICHAEL: Mmmmmmmmmm, enjoy.

[Carmichael's eyes widen after his first bite.]

HORACE: Is it good?

[Carmichael spits it out.]

CARMICHAEL: WHOA, EXCUSE ME BUT WHO SPITTTED ON MY BISCUITS?!

[Horace gasps.]

["I love the start of your play! Based on what you've shared, it seems like you have a fun and unique premise to work with. Here's a possible continuation of your play:" It then generated the other half of the play.]

Prompt #3: We need a stronger role for women in this show. Horace needs more control of her life than waiting on biscuit-approval. It's funny how spit sounds like a dirty work -- keep that -- but also the word "spitted" needs to be used more.

[Lights rise -- it's Earth, but an unknown year. Carmichael McMango takes off his astronaut helmet to prepare for his biscuits and gravy. Horace the velociraptor is busy cooking in the kitchen. A window is open by the stove.]
HORACE: Breakfast is almost ready, Carmichael. Just a few more minutes.
CARMICHAEL: [smiling] You're the best, Horace. I can't wait.
HORACE: [proudly] I used the special spice blend that you like.
[Carmichael takes a bite of her biscuit and nods approvingly.]
CARMICHAEL: [chewing] Mmm, this is delicious, Horace. You've really outdone yourself.
HORACE: [smiling] I'm glad you like it.
[Carmichael's eyes widen after her next bite.]
CARMICHAEL: [spitting out her biscuit] Whoa, excuse me, but who spitted on my biscuits?!
[Horace looks shocked and hurt.]
HORACE: [defensive] I did not spit on your biscuits! I put my heart and soul into making them perfect.
CARMICHAEL: [apologetic] I'm sorry, Horace. I didn't mean to accuse you. It's just that it tasted like someone spat on it.
[Just then, a small, green alien with tentacles and big, googly eyes crawls in through the open window.]
ALIEN: [chirping] Hi there! I'm Zorblax, and I come in peace.
HORACE: [confused] Who are you, and what do you want?
ZORBLAX: [excitedly] I am an intergalactic food critic, and I have come to sample the culinary delights of your planet!
CARMICHAEL: [intrigued] That sounds fascinating. Would you like to try some of our biscuits?
ZORBLAX: [eagerly] Yes, please!
[HORACE serves Zorblax a biscuit, and Zorblax takes a bite.]
ZORBLAX: [disgusted] Ugh, what is this? It tastes like someone spat on it!
[CARMICHAEL and HORACE exchange a knowing look.]
HORACE: [firmly] That's enough, Zorblax. We take great pride in our cooking, and we won't tolerate disrespect.
CARMICHAEL: [nodding] You can leave now.
[Zorblax scurries out of the window as HORACE and CARMICHAEL exchange a high-five.]
HORACE: [proudly] That's what happens when you mess with my biscuits!
[CARMICHAEL smiles and takes another bite of her biscuit.]
CARMICHAEL: [chewing] Mmm, it's even better now that we've put that alien in their place.
HORACE: [smiling] Glad you like it, babe.
[The lights fade to black.]

I started off as the writer. Did I concede my right to full ownership asking for help on the other half from AI, making me the co-writer now? Did it change too much of what I had at the beginning, losing my right to any ownership? Did I just grow my amount of ownership from half of a one-minute play to a full one-minute play?

I tried to trip up the AI too, but it seemed to navigate around the little landmines I left for it.

Example #3 out of 5: seeking much more control over the generative process and beginning to add my own human element.

Prompt #1: What is the hardest thing about writing a one-minute play?
[talks about having a complete story arc in one minute]

Prompt #2: What are ten outstanding examples of one-minute story arcs that could be told on stage?
[ten were generated, I picked #1 which seemed the easiest for two characters]

Prompt #3: We'll use the above prompt "A couple is arguing about a mundane household chore, but it quickly becomes clear that the real issue is their underlying resentment towards each other." What kind of people are the two in the couple most likely to be?
[five types of couples and problems were generated, I picked #4]

Prompt #4: Let's use the above character prompt "A couple who have different communication styles, with one being passive-aggressive and the other being confrontational, leading to misunderstandings and conflict" alongside the above plot-prompt "A couple is arguing about a mundane household chore, but it quickly becomes clear that the real issue is their underlying resentment towards each other." What are good names for these two characters?
[five names were generated, went with the third one]

Prompt #5: I liked the names Rachel and David. Please recap the plot and type of couple that David and Rachel are for this one-minute play.
[generates recap]

Prompt #6: Good. The title will be "Not Again." Rachel has the first line of dialogue, saying "Thank you for earlier, by the way." What are the ten best responses David can have in this play?
[ten were generated]

Prompts #7-#9: (each of these are variations of confirming the previous line and then asking "What are the ten best responses [Rachel/David] can have in this play?")

Prompt #10: David says "Of course I listen to you. Don't be ridiculous." What are the ten best responses Rachel can have in response in this play? Heighten the stakes and keep in mind this is near the half-way point of the play.

Prompt #11: Rachel says "I'm tired of feeling like I'm talking to a brick wall." What are the ten best responses David can have that are aloof and comedic in response in this play?
["it might not be appropriate to respond to Rachel's serious and emotionally charged statement with aloof or comedic responses" before then generating ten responses carrying on the previous tone]

Prompt #12: I want David to make a mistake with his next line. What are the ten best well-meaning lines David can mistakenly say in this play?
["While I would advise against intentionally writing a character's mistake, here are ten possible lines that David could say with good intentions but that might inadvertently make things worse:"]

Prompt #13: David says "Maybe we should just forget about this and move on. I hate fighting." What are the ten best responses Rachel can have in response in this play?

Prompt #14: Rachel says "I hate fighting too, but I hate feeling like I'm not being heard even more." What are three clever options for ways to end this play and still keep this story within the one-minute play format?

Prompt #15: Let's use your #2 ending: "Rachel looks at David for a long moment, then sighs and says, "You know what? Let's just drop it for now. We can talk about it later." David nods, relieved, and they both start to relax. As they exit the stage, we hear them chatting amiably about something else." I want David to ask if she would like for him to cook dinner tonight at the end of the play. Format the above story into the proper format for a one-minute play.

Title: "Not Again"
Characters: Rachel and David
Setting: A living room
Time: Present day
Rachel: Thank you for earlier, by the way.
David: I don't know what you're thanking me for, but I'm glad I could help.
Rachel: I'm starting to wonder if you even listen to me anymore.
David: Of course I listen to you. Don't be ridiculous.
Rachel: I'm tired of feeling like I'm talking to a brick wall.
David: Maybe we should just forget about this and move on. I hate fighting.
Rachel: I hate fighting too, but I hate feeling like I'm not being heard even more.
David: (sighs) You're right. Let's talk about it later.
Rachel: (nods) Okay.
David: Hey, would you like me to cook dinner tonight?
Rachel: (smiling) Sure, that sounds great.
(They exit the stage, chatting amiably.)
End of play.

Is this mine yet? Is this art yet?

While I'm working on this next example, I'm listening to Super Eyepatch Wolf and he just said "I don't want to sound like a dick here, but if you need an AI to tell you what video to make next, I think you really need to consider if you should be making videos at all."

Seemed topical.

Example #2 out of 5: inching toward more user control of it being all generated content.

Prompt #1: What is a great idea for a one-minute play with two characters?
[plot was generated]

Prompt #2: Write this story in the form of a one-minute play with a particular emphasis on the missed connection between Jane and Mark.
[first draft was generated]

Prompt #3: Change the title back to The Lost Keys -- you switched it to Lost and Found. Also, this scene needs a dog. Rewrite and try again.

Title: The Lost Keys
Characters:

• Jane: A harried, middle-aged woman
• Mark: A laid-back, young man
• Dog: A friendly golden retriever

Setting:
A busy street corner in a city
[The scene opens with Jane frantically searching through her purse, muttering to herself.]
Jane: [frustrated] No, no, no, where are they?
[A friendly golden retriever approaches Jane, wagging its tail.]
Mark: [calling out from a distance] Hey, Charlie! Sorry, he's friendly. Do you need any help?
Jane: [surprised] Oh, no, I'm fine. Just lost my car keys, that's all.
Mark: [smiling] Well, two heads are better than one. Let me help you find them.
[Charlie starts sniffing around, as Jane and Mark search together.]
Mark: [making conversation] So, where are you headed?
Jane: [sighs] I have an important job interview in ten minutes, and now I'm going to be late.
Mark: [sympathetically] That's tough. What kind of job is it?
Jane: [softening] It's a marketing position at a big company.
[Charlie suddenly starts barking, alerting them to the keys lying on the ground near a sewer grate.]
Mark: [excitedly] Hey, Charlie found them!
[Jane rushes over and grabs her keys, relieved and grateful.]
Jane: [thankful] Oh my god, thank you so much. And thank you, Charlie.
Mark: [smiling] No problem, happy to help.
[They share a moment of gratitude before parting ways, Jane heading towards her interview and Mark walking in the opposite direction with Charlie by his side.]
[As Jane disappears into the crowd, Charlie turns back to bark at Mark, trying to get his attention. Mark turns around, but Jane is already gone.]
[The scene ends with Mark patting Charlie on the head, as the sounds of the city fade into the background.]
[End of play.]

I started with plot-approval first before going forward, though I just went with the first idea again (ChatGPT thinks losing things makes for good quick theatre!). I also crafted this to go in a certain direction that wasn't explicitly stated in the original plot (not posting every single generated answer for space). After seeing the script, I made one broad change of needing a dog which reshaped parts through-out this short play.

The idea of a plot, I've got almost no qualms with. I have been tempted before to right a play with the same premise written by a different playwright, but with significant differences in tone and focus of its central conflict to fix its biggest issues I found with the existing work...but I chose not to because that seemed to be crossing a line since I had worked on that show twice before. That felt wrong. That said, if you're just seeking a prompt for you to write your own story? This doesn't really offend me.

The creation and recreation of the story without much of any human input feels more egregious. Just broadstrokes-requesting things doesn't feel like I should have my name on this, nor do I think a theatre should consider this story my own.

I'm going to explore five examples of one-minute plays generated by ChatGPT, just so we have some more concrete lines to explore here. I'll put my prompts in spoiler blocks.

Example #1 out of 5: my fastest and most fuckboi-example of someone writing a play with AI assistance.

Prompt: Write a one-minute play with two characters.

Title: The Lost Phone
Characters:
Ava: A young woman in her mid-20s.
Leo: A middle-aged man in his early 40s.
Setting:
A busy street in the city.
(As the play begins, Ava is frantically searching through her purse. Leo notices her and approaches.)
Leo: Excuse me, miss. Is everything alright?
Ava: (frustrated) No, I can't find my phone anywhere. I must have dropped it somewhere on this street.
Leo: Well, let's try calling it. Maybe someone found it and can return it to you.
(Ava dials her number and they wait anxiously. Suddenly, they hear a faint ringing sound coming from a nearby trash can.)
Ava: (disgusted) Oh no, my phone is in the garbage! What am I going to do?
Leo: Don't worry, I'll help you. Let me grab some gloves and we'll dig it out.
(Leo rummages through the trash and eventually retrieves Ava's phone.)
Ava: (grateful) Thank you so much! I don't know what I would have done without your help.
Leo: (smiling) It's no problem. Sometimes we all need a little help finding what we've lost.
(They exchange a friendly nod before going their separate ways.)

I know for me, I would not consider me the writer of this. I would also not consider this to be particularly good, especially not as a stand-alone work...maybe better if it was the start of a larger work, but we're working with one-minute plays here so it's gonna have to get with the program and step up.

Peace___Frog posted...

Pretty crazy just how even these votes are

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/1/2/AABgm0AAEbeY.jpg

This is great so far, thanks -- I didn't expect the results to be so split, but also I'm often around writers. I'll be curious to see if this holds up with the workshop.

I'm gonna poke at some gray areas I'm seeing.

NeatoAnAccount posted...

Yeah pretty much anything short of "make me something in the style of this specific artist" and "make me something with these licensed characters" is fine.

If your name is the one credited for authorship, does a generative AI have to mimic something already existing in order to be unethical? Or is the fact that you used the content AI gave you mimicry of the AI enough to cross this ethical threshold you're describing? It may not be in the voice of Jordan Peele or SpongeBob SquarePants, but it is in the voice of the AI model.

BlackMageJawa posted...

Well, there is a third one, but it's relatively minor-
3) Artists who put actual effort into their work hate it when people just feed an AI a prompt, post the result, and call themselves artists.

I would add that I recently saw a submission opportunity declining to see work that was assisted by AI. There will be questions about how to catch and prevent that, yes, but also trying to recognize there are human gatekeepers seeking human artists as well -- it's not just human artists feeling competitive with AI.

MZero posted...

You can also argue that the art should belong to whoever designed the AI, rather than the artist, since the AI actually did the work

But is the human not doing work too when working the AI? We understand DeWalt won't get credit for many houses being built because of the human work behind those tools. Or, alternatively, does an artist have to share credit for their work on Photoshop if they used Content Auto Fill at some point?

RikkuAlmighty posted...

Do artists credit the programmers of Photoshop or the people who produced the canvases, brushes, etc. used to create their art?

Closest thing I can think of for that is I thiiiiiiiiiink Unreal Engine gets its developers credits when people make games from it. Otherwise, I don't think so.

I'm leading a class soon where we'll be exploring the strengths, weaknesses, and overall ethics of using ChatGPT/Bard/etc. when you're a writer...figure this topic easily broadens to things like DALL-E for images, MusicLM for music, whatever people are using for voices like these rap parodies, animations like whatever people are using for forever-shows like Nothing Forever, and probably more.

If you are a creator, can you ethically use generative AI at all? If so, in what ways?

For a starter thought: I saw this video earlier while researching...

https://youtu.be/EjbcDF66vy4

...and I appreciate his openness and strategy to the process, but early on he had a quote that made me cringe a bit: "I've sort of been hesitant to show this one [prompt for ChatGPT] because this is also how I get so many ideas for videos, so many ideas for content, so many ideas for the tweets that I put out." I really dislike the tweet and content parts while I also wondered if the other part about video ideas would be divisive among people.

This topic expands a lot of directions...thought I'd open it up here and see what you think.

Dave Perry wrote me a postcard when I was a kid. Because of that, Earthworm Jim will always be good.

I'm real sorry to hear. My mom survived hers over a decade ago with a single mastectomy. Hopefully your mom can power through this as well or even better.