Lurker > Galcian

it would die pretty fast if it only had vaccinated people to jump to.

That's right, if none of it can be corroborated and if it can't clearly be pointed at the vaccine (alone) as the reason.

No one is saying literally no one has died from taking the vaccine

Shut the fuck up. Gross to troll about this.

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/ scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination- arent-what-they-seem

Fuck off, dude.

The loss of ACE2 receptor activity from the external site of the cellular membrane, as mediated by the interaction between ACE2 and SARS-CoV-2 Spike proteins, leads to less angiotensin II inactivation and less generation of antiotensin17 [44, 45]. The imbalance between angiotensin II overactivity and of antiotensin17 deficiency may trigger inflammation, thrombosis, and other adverse reactions (Fig. 1) [44, 45]. In this context, it is not clear whether the interaction between free-floating Spike proteins and ACE2 may favor such imbalance and influence the potential adverse events following vaccination (Fig. 1).

Your own source says it is not clear that the interaction between free-floating spike proteins and ace2 will cause those adverse reactions.

You really need to actually read your sources before you post them. You have, yet again, tried to suggest a definite conclusion that has not been reached by your source.

First you suggested people in Israel who are fully vaccinated need typically need to go to the hospital when they get infected with covid. You used a source that said and 304 fully vaccinated people are in the hospital in Israel when there have been thousands upon thousands of infections in the current spike.

Then your said mRNA vaccines are gene therapy when they factually are not. Then you tried to move the goalposts and say "We'll, it's kinda like gene therapy!" It's factually not gene therapy.

Now you're trying to suggest a definite conclusion has been reached about ace2 enzymes being put at risk because of mRNA vaccines when you're source directly states that it's unclear.

Stop spreading bullshit. You aren't doing anything but making up shit and it's a worthless effort unless your goal is simply to spread misinformation.

Those side effects are common. The vaccine won't put you in a coma or kill you.

Your ace-2 enzymes aren't at risk from taking the vaccine

Which is why it's better to get vaccinated. Covid actively replicates itself many times over and puts you at risk of this happening. The vaccines don't.

Also, your cells themselves aren't "vaccinated cells." Your body generates antibodies that react to the spike protein after you get infected or you get vaccinated.

It's unquestionably safer to get vaccinated against covid than it is to get covid to get that immunity.

The immune system attacks and destroys the spike proteins because it knows they're foreign. That's why the vaccine works against covid. Your body attacks the spike proteins that the mRNA instructed your cells to make, and since that spike protein is what covid uses to attack your cells, your body already knows how to fight against it if you get infected.

Your DNA is stored inside the nucleus of your cells and mRNA vaccines do their work outside of that.

I'm not sure how many times it will need to be repeated ITT that the delta variant changed things in Israel. We're still learning as we go with covid, especially since it's mutating so rapidly because we're letting it spread so much.

It is not gene therapy. Again, there are certain requirements for something to be gene therapy. The covid mRNA vaccines don't meet those requirements at all. This is not up for debate.

And yes, your cells use the instructions (mRNA) from the vaccines to make the spike protein. Once it's made, the cell breaks down the mRNA and gets rid of it. Then the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn't belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, just like what happens if you get covid. Your body learns how to protect against future infection, but without the other risks that actually getting covid presents.

The mRNA vaccines don't interact with our DNA in any way, so they are not gene therapy at all.

1. The general public wasn't re-infected with a new wave several months later and flooding ICUs because so many people took the vaccine that we reached herd immunity in most countries. There are 2 countries in Asia (Afghanistan and Pakisatan) that still deal with polio infections today.
2. mRNA isn't gene therapy. The mRNA from the vaccines would have to enter the cell nucleus and interact with DNA (it doesn't) in order to be gene therapy.

1. So Israel's 70% isn't good enough apparently. At what point is it good enough?
2. It is similar in nature, the point is different technologies are being used. It instructs the body to produce the covid-19 spike protein

The data shows the vaccines are very strong. The reason the polio was eradicated in the US was because the overwhelming vast majority of the public took the vaccine, and we started requiring kids to be vaccinated against polio before they were allowed to attend school.

You're showing a severe misunderstanding of what's going on.
* Waning vaccine efficacy
* Vaccines are less effective against the delta variant than the alpha variant

It was known from the beginning that letting covid run wild would give it a chance to mutate into something that the vaccines didn't work as well against. We let covid run wild and we have over 2000 variants that have been identified. The delta variant is the major problem globally right now because it's multiple times more infectious and vaccines are less effective against it. That's why we're looking at having a 3rd dose now.

The covid vaccines still have efficacy against the delta variant. Just not as much as against the alpha variant.

False. No vaccine has 100% efficacy. The reason most vaccines work so well is because the overwhelming vast majority of the public takes them. Polio was eradicated in the US because so many people took the vaccine that we reached herd immunity.

Also, from your link:
As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated.

Israel population: 9.053 million (2019)
Fully vaccinated: >78% as of August 31st. Source:
* https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-vaccine-data-how-many-have-already-been-inoculated-for-covid-1.9626604
9,053,000 people * .78 = 7,061,340

7,061,340 people in Israel fully vaccinated

541 in the hospital, according to your link
~59% of those are fully vaccinated

541 * .59 = 319.19

So let's just say that 320 fully vaccinated people in Israel are in the hospital with covid.

320 people out of over 7,000,000 people who are fully vaccinated

Do you know what the word "typically" means? And do you understand how "one instance" doesn't refute anything in that regard?

His claim that vaccinated people typically need to go to the hospital if they get infected with covid in Israel is patently false. Then he tried to support that with the data showing that 59% of covid patients in the hospital in Israel are fully vaccinated, implying that 59% of hospitalized covid patients in the hospital in Israel represents the majority of their vaccinated population. That's either a huge misunderstanding of what he's reading or he's just flat out lying.

Hospitalization data doesn't support the claim that smokers and junk food eaters are clogging up hospitals. The claim that they are more likely to be hospitalized can be argued, but unvaccinated covid patients are causing so much of an issue that it's making it harder for people who need advanced care to get the care they need.
* A man in Houston was shot 6 times and had to wait at least 10 days for surgery because unvaccinated covid patients were taking up all of the ICU beds in the area.
* A US Army veteran died from a gallstone (an easily treatable condition) because unvaccinated covid patients were taking up all of the ICU beds in the area.
* A man in Alabama died 200 miles from home because unvaccinated covid patients were taking up all of the beds in 43 ICUs and they had to keep turning him away.
* A few weeks ago, San Antonio, TX was completely without EMS service for 26 minutes because of a surge of unvaccinated people getting severe covid infections and calling 911.

This isn't something we've seen in the US in my lifetime, but unvaccinated covid patients are undoubtedly causing major issues for the US healthcare industry.

If the government was mandating that you get a shingles shot, that would violate your bodily autonomy. Again, your freedom is meaningless when your choices start affecting others. Someone has to stop you.

I'm not talking about CDC data. I'm talking about what hospital officials across the country are saying. The overwhelming vast majority of people in their ICUs are unvaccinated covid patients.

It is the case in Israel. And for the breakthrough cases that are sending people to the hospital, unvaccinated people are still faring far worse by comparison.

Getting your comorbidities in check doesn't prevent you from getting it. It's a respiratory disease that can infect anyone. Also, in the US, many people don't go to the doctor unless something major is going on because healthcare is so expensive. So we have a lot of people going about their lives not knowing they have comorbidities.

Bodily autonomy and personal freedom are irrelevant here. You have no right to affect others.

* Unvaccinated people are the ones overrunning ICUs across the country
* Vaccinated people typically don't need to go to the hospital if they get it
* Vaccinated people are much more likely to take it seriously and isolate so they won't spread it to other people if infected

Bodily autonomy and personal freedom are irrelevant here. You have no right to affect others.