Lurker > DawkinsNumber4

Another example of how "intercept" and "record" don't mean the same thing.

"Courts and General Proceedings 10-402

(6) (i) It is lawful under this subtitle for law enforcement personnel to utilize body wires to intercept oral communications in the course of a criminal investigation if there is reasonable cause to believe that a law enforcement officer’s safety may be in jeopardy.
(ii) Communications intercepted under this paragraph may not be recorded, and may not be used against the defendant in a criminal proceeding.
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So until people can refute my claims I really don't care about whatever ad hominem bullshit you say.
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Their own policy.


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darksamus1992 posted...

RE_expert44 posted...

Wait what's this whole thing all about? What are the allegations? Start from the beginning

This.

Here is 1 page off the warrant.




and here are a couple of other interesting documents I have collected.



here is proof the calls were recorded anyways by them (and they never told me)



I had to partially obscure the number but the number on that document is the same number as here...





This is all a huge ball of intertwined bullshit.


Also....




Was a memo sent out to police around the state a while back telling them not to seize marijuana paraphernalia.


and here is the state's attorney who just so happened to review my search warrant lying about it the SAME DAY that the warrant was reviewed (February 14th).



I've been notified by my contact at the state's attorney's office that this guy is moving back to Florida.

Call with officer that they say started the investigation, also the same number listed on that document about the city recording their calls.


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For example lets say I own a business. I am allowed to record my own phone calls but not the calls of my workers to others even during their business. That is, unless I put a message so both parties are consenting to be recorded by staying on the line, which is why that happens. You cannot give another consent to intercept a communication they are not a party to. Your boss would not be a party in this scenario even if it were his or her business.
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DamageDealerz posted...

And in Maryland it's illegal to record someone without their permission.

No, in Maryland it's illegal to intercept (not record) someone without all parties consenting to the communication unless an electronic, mechanical, or other device is used, which a telephone or telegraph equipment or any component thereof furnished by the user or subscriber, for connection to the facilities, during the ordinary course of it's business is not.


Yes when a 3rd party overhears that IS wiretapping (eavesdropping) you literally explained in your post why what I did was not in violation of Maryland law and you don't even realize it lol.
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DamageDealerz posted...

They're saying the fact that he recorded a conversation in this case is irrelevant if he legally overheard a conversation. They go on to say in the next sentence the only crucial point is how that conversation was overheard, was it legal or not. The case is only saying that you can record a conversation that you legally overhear.

because I fucking legally overheard all of my telephone calls because they were my telephone calls bright one...

It's never lawful to record someone else's phone calls in an all party consent state without a message saying so at the beginning of the call. This isn't true for your own communications, only the communications of others, which is why businesses have to put this message because they cannot give the person on the phone permission to intercept a communication as they are not party to said communication. It literally makes sense when you remember this law is to prevent eavesdropping.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

The seizure still has to be in accordance with the rules of force like usual, and is essentially saying the National Guard is allowed to intervene in a person's 2nd Amendment Rights if that person is committing a disturbance or crime that jeopardizes the Emergency Response mission of the Guard.

A.K.A. it gives the ability to act as law enforcement for the duration of the mission with no promise of reimbursement of weapons if your activities explictly mandate their seizure.

Or maybe they'll break into homes and steal every person's gun in the Virgin Island, though I would suspect they'd be a bit more subtle if that were the case.

The big issues I see are that they have the authority to decide without a citizen having any recourse for appeal and that it is an indefinite order and that a governor has an ability to make such an indefinite order at their own discretion.

The bigger issue is the hurricane that is destroying entire cities. A national emergency is not something where the protection of rights is the highest priority if it comes at the expense of the time and effort put towards rescue and recovery of people who might literally die. Spending two hours creating a legal ownership trail for some nut who refused to leave his gun at the door of a food shelter is two hours that could have been spent helping people. There comes a point in time where we must weigh the priority of our rights against each other.

You act like these places cannot already ban weapons without a natural disaster occurring. The law already handles this another way. Stripping people of their Constitutional rights without due process is never ok and their ability to dictate when it is and is not appropriate to strip people of their weapons is concerning. If there was a natural disaster I would want to keep my weapons to protect myself from looters, not give them up.
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

i hope you aren't allowed to own firearms dawkins.

I'm not but even if I could I don't care much for guns myself, but I do support gun rights.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

The seizure still has to be in accordance with the rules of force like usual, and is essentially saying the National Guard is allowed to intervene in a person's 2nd Amendment Rights if that person is committing a disturbance or crime that jeopardizes the Emergency Response mission of the Guard.

A.K.A. it gives the ability to act as law enforcement for the duration of the mission with no promise of reimbursement of weapons if your activities explictly mandate their seizure.

Or maybe they'll break into homes and steal every person's gun in the Virgin Island, though I would suspect they'd be a bit more subtle if that were the case.

The big issues I see are that they have the authority to decide without a citizen having any recourse for appeal and that it is an indefinite order and that a governor has an ability to make such an indefinite order at their own discretion.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

Maryland courts have consistently interpretted the law to forbid audio recording conversations under reasonably presumed privacy. Mostly, they view:

1. The "exclusion" of telephones from the statutes only apply in their general capacity as telecommunication recievers, not in any potential capacity of their usage such as audio and video recording.

2. The word "interception" is to be interpretted as any acquisition of audio or video, not just the initial acquisition done through the reciever. Thus, to first acquire audio through the telephone reciever is a protected interception of communications, but any secondary recording of the conversation, even while using the same device, would still count as a second unprotected interception of communication perscutable by the court.

What another State's courts have ruled is not as relevant when the state already possesses a body of consistent and relevant case law.

"What another State's courts have ruled is not as relevant when the state already possesses a body of consistent and relevant case law."


Again, since you ignored that part of what I said. There is NO case law in the state of Maryland that shows recording your own telephone calls to be an interception in violation of the subtitle.


"1. The "exclusion" of telephones from the statutes only apply in their general capacity as telecommunication recievers, not in any potential capacity of their usage such as audio and video recording. "

It's no different than using a telephone extension or using a tape recorder at the end of a phone call. Both of which are protected exclusions because as stated during United States vs. Harpel "The recording of the conversation is immaterial when the overhearing itself is legal". This also makes sense when you remember these laws were created to prevent eavesdropping and you cannot eavesdrop on yourself.
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Nazanir posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Nazanir posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

"possility"

Stop deflecting and awnser the question, did you ever consider the possibility you did something wrong?

"Stop deflecting and awnser the question, did you ever consider the possibility you did something wrong?"


*answer. "possibility THAT". Yes, I have, and then I looked into case law and further read into the intent of the initial legislation and verified it is definitely not me who is wrong.

I didn't ask for your legal advice, Matlock.

Stop acting like you are so great and be honest for just a second: did you do anything wrong?

No, I did not. I preserved my own communications as the law affords me the right to do.
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*bump*
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due process of law by utilizing a natural disaster as an excuse to issue an indefinite order to seize guns and ammunition from citizens without any recourse for them if they disagree.


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Nomadic View posted...

Puglia77 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Respectfully,
Dustin *********"

We already know your name, why censor it

GameFAQs mods people that dox themselves.

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Nazanir posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

"possility"

Stop deflecting and awnser the question, did you ever consider the possibility you did something wrong?

"Stop deflecting and awnser the question, did you ever consider the possibility you did something wrong?"


*answer. "possibility THAT". Yes, I have, and then I looked into case law and further read into the intent of the initial legislation and verified it is definitely not me who is wrong.
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butthole666 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

ColdOne666 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

ColdOne666 posted...

Why or how is this guy not in jail yet?

I didn't commit any crimes?

DeNile isn't just a river in Egypt.

and DeFlection isn't just what happens when you hold a shield up to block an incoming small projectile either.

Man I don't think you got the joke or why it works

It's a shitty joke. I understand it, it's just cheesy and not very humorous.
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"possility"
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Balrog0 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

The argument is also moot considering I already cited federal case law saying the same thing in United States vs. Harpel.

it's not the same thing, though, because federal law doesn't stipulate two-party consent

it is possible and maybe even probable that you could win this, but the standing for other states/jurisdictions rulings is not binding so it's not a sure thing

All parties must consent to the interception of the communication. Federal law and Maryland law have the same definition of intercept. Using a personal telephone as a telephone is not an electronic, mechanical, or other device. Furthermore, even if it was, when you talk to someone on the telephone you are consenting to the interception of your sent communication by both the recipient phone and the person utilizing said recipient phone to aurally intercept the communication. In this case an electronic communication. Only "oral communications" deal with privacy. The rest are only relevant if A. an intercept according to the statute happens, and B. whether or not all parties consented to it if so.

When a phone is used as telephones are intended to be used it cannot be a statutory intercept. This is according to federal law. Federal definitions of "intercept" are the same as MD law (and PA). This is why they cite federal law. We have to prove an intercept was performed and that all parties didn't consent to it. With a telephone being an excluded electronic, mechanical, or other device, then we cannot even say an intercept occurred under law.
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Porneaux posted...

Are you going to sue for your legal fees and slander?

I will be suing for defamation, abuse of process, and malicious prosecution most likely. As well as damages from being deprived of my property that I used as assistive technology for school since I can't physically write more than a few sentences legibly.
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http://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-special-appeals/1674568.html
"We therefore conclude that the police, in the instant case, did not unlawfully “intercept” text messages from the victim's cell phone, as those messages were, at the time of their seizure, already stored in that phone, having already been sent and received before police gained access to them.

The Maryland Wiretap Act, moreover, prohibits only interceptions that occur “through the use of any electronic, mechanical, or other device.” CJP § 10–401(3). Since a cell phone is not a “device,” under the Wiretap Act, as it specifically excludes “telephone” from the statutory definition of “electronic, mechanical, or other device,” see id. § 10–401(4), messages found in the victim's cell phone are not covered by the Act and therefore are not subject to exclusion under the strictures of the Act.

That the data was subsequently transferred onto a police department computer by means of a universal memory exchanger (“UME”) is of no consequence, because the data at issue was already in the possession of police investigators before its transfer via the UME. As a consequence, even if we assume that the UME is a “device,” as Martin contends, it was not used to “intercept” the text messages. Rather, the UME was used to record the data after it had already been lawfully acquired. See United States v. Harpel, 493 F.2d 346, 350 (10th Cir.1974) (holding that “the recording of a conversation is immaterial when the overhearing is itself legal”)."
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Balrog0 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Incorrect. The two laws are enacted at different times and should be interpreted in light of each other since they have a common purpose for comparable events or items

The laws govern two different jurisdictions, this is not a hard concept and it isn't just because I say so. The definition of the term doesn't support your claim here. It's like saying that all squares are rectangles because all rectangles are squares.

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

You saying "You're wrong because I say so" again ignores the meaning and what we are talking about.

Similarly, just because you say something is true doesn't make it so.

The argument is also moot considering I already cited federal case law saying the same thing in United States vs. Harpel.
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Balrog0 posted...

But he clearly hasn't looked into any Maryland cases

Literally posted State vs. Martin. There is no case law in Maryland for recording your own phone calls as it's not illegal.
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Balrog0 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Thank about what you just said.

If both PA and MD have the same definitions and both PA and MD both have cited federal law in their wiretapping cases because of the verbatim definitions then one can infer what? That because MD statutes are in paria materia with federal law and PA statutes are in paria materia with federal law then we know for a fact that the two are also in paria materia with each other

no, not at all

Incorrect. The two laws are enacted at different times and should be interpreted in light of each other since they have a common purpose for comparable events or items. You saying "You're wrong because I say so" again ignores the meaning and what we are talking about.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

You jump through so many logic hoops trying to justify your legality. Well guess what? You're wrong, and you're going to lose. Just like all the people who try to justify not paying taxes by arguing that the IRS is unconstitutional.

No, he could win.

At this point, it's all about interpretation of the law. So it's really all up to which direction the courts want to set precedent for.

There is no precedent that needs to be set. There is already Maryland case law as well. State vs Martin. I have disclosed this as well.
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Balrog0 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Argue that with the courts I cited.

No, they used it correctly, it is your understanding of the phrase that I believe is incorrect. You said that all three laws (federal, PA, MD) are "in paria materia" because they all use the same definitions, but that's not the case. The law in MD is in paria materia with federal law because it is essentially a response (or, "offspring") of similar federal legislation, but that association doesn't hold between PA and MD laws.

Now I'm also on record as saying you could probably win this case because it is true that most places have not upheld these two party consent laws. But also most people don't fight them, because I think most people don't get in trouble for it.

Thank about what you just said.

If both PA and MD have the same definitions and both PA and MD both have cited federal law in their wiretapping cases because of the verbatim definitions then one can infer what? That because MD statutes are in paria materia with federal law and PA statutes are in paria materia with federal law then we know for a fact that the two are also in paria materia with each other. There is no case law for personal telephone call prosecutions in Maryland but there is both federally and in PA and both PA and Federal law agree for the same reasons. If those reasons that PA decisions have been made are the same reasons that are based on the definitions that exist within the statutes of both MD and Federal law then what does that tell you? They are all in pari materia as they are all based on the same law and serve a comparable purpose and are based on the same initial and comparable event.
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Burgess posted...



I am going to see him today. It was an e-mail and we discuss our e-mails at our weekly appointment.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Opinions are irrelevant to me.

Except your own.

You are implying I am utilizing opinions rather than facts. I have no interest in doing that and have not done so with regards to this case.

You are taking information and interpreting it as a layman.

I am just citing what judges and various courts have already stated. I have even disclosed said cases and said pertinent quotations.
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Canuklehead posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Good lord, even when you misread something, your ego is so goddamn through the roof that you can't even admit it and have to find some condescending way to work around it.

I think most of you are weak and ignorant so I really have little interest in divesting my patience to talk to someone who doesn't listen, especially given I have little to no respect for them or their abilities to begin with.

Who here DO you actually have respect for? There must be someone since you continue to post topics here trying to elicit some kind of response.

I have no obligation to disclose that information to you.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Good lord, even when you misread something, your ego is so goddamn through the roof that you can't even admit it and have to find some condescending way to work around it.

I think most of you are weak and ignorant so I really have little interest in divesting my patience to talk to someone who doesn't listen, especially given I have little to no respect for them or their abilities to begin with.

If irony were fog, that post would be a wall.

I think one of the most telling things about the majority of CE is the fact they can never stay on topic.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Opinions are irrelevant to me.

Except your own.

You are implying I am utilizing opinions rather than facts. I have no interest in doing that and have not done so with regards to this case.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Good lord, even when you misread something, your ego is so goddamn through the roof that you can't even admit it and have to find some condescending way to work around it.

I think most of you are weak and ignorant so I really have little interest in divesting my patience to talk to someone who doesn't listen, especially given I have little to no respect for them or their abilities to begin with.
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Balrog0 posted...

I don't think that is a correct use of the term in pari materia

Argue that with the courts I cited.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

I am not stupid lol.

Irrespective of the conversation itself, that is extremely questionable.

When compared to the world average there is no question. That means that it is not an opinion but a fact. Opinions are irrelevant to me.
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shockthemonkey posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Canuklehead posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Couldn't be the one I quoted...

Would figure someone with higher than average reading comprehension would notice that he originally quoted someone different than the person he is currently trying to condescend.

*implying I care enough about some loser troll on CE to give them my undivided attention*

But you care or else you wouldn't have replied

"care ENOUGH to GIVE THEM MY UNDIVIDED ATTENTION".

It is important to read. No matter you are ignored for trolling anyways.
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TheVipaGTS posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

TheVipaGTS posted...

no one cares anymore.

Why are you posting?

To tell you that no one gives a fuck.

As you continue to post. Contrary aren't we?

Posting here doesn't mean I care. Your lack of logic is only rivaled by your lack of common sense.

You care enough to post. Deflecting doesn't change that as not caring would imply not being here posting.
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Off-topic posters will be ignored from this point on unless they pay me for wasting my time. Thank you.
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Canuklehead posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

Couldn't be the one I quoted...

Would figure someone with higher than average reading comprehension would notice that he originally quoted someone different than the person he is currently trying to condescend.

*implying I care enough about some loser troll on CE to give them my undivided attention*
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Callixtus posted...

3. The PA and MD Supreme Courts are the absolute final word on any state legislation, so long as the legislation isn't in violation of federal law. That means that if the Supreme Court of Maryland rules any way differently than the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, it does matter worth a shit what the Penn Court had to say. It is the final word on its own state law in 99% of cases. See 1 & 2 for the relevance of that fact.

4. You claim that there is no Maryland caselaw on this. That is almost certainly not true, but I'm not going to bother researching it, because I, like you, am not an actual lawyer and I don't think I can do a better job than an actual professional.

So you didn't read the last post mentioning how this was adding on to the case law already given to the attorney? You didn't notice that the court made the same decision as both the PA court and the federal court? Of course not because it is contrary to your agenda. I am only interested in reality, not delusions.


"You claim that there is no Maryland caselaw on this. That is almost certainly not true, but I'm not going to bother researching it"


There is none pertaining to recording one's own phone calls. Get over it. You saying "I am not going to bother researching it" is you saying "I did a quick search and cannot validate my claim so I am going to say this in an attempt to sidestep that aspect of the argument". I am not stupid lol.
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shockthemonkey posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

shockthemonkey posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

ColdOne666 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

ColdOne666 posted...

Why or how is this guy not in jail yet?

I didn't commit any crimes?

DeNile isn't just a river in Egypt.

and DeFlection isn't just what happens when you hold a shield up to block an incoming small projectile either.

This was painfully unfunny

That's how I felt when I read your post that I was mimicking so apparently it was an accurate portrayal of your posting style.

What post of mine were you mimicking?

Couldn't be the one I quoted...
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shockthemonkey posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

ColdOne666 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

ColdOne666 posted...

Why or how is this guy not in jail yet?

I didn't commit any crimes?

DeNile isn't just a river in Egypt.

and DeFlection isn't just what happens when you hold a shield up to block an incoming small projectile either.

This was painfully unfunny

That's how I felt when I read your post that I was mimicking so apparently it was an accurate portrayal of your posting style.
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Federal law, Maryland law, and PA law all have the same definitions and therefore all case law regarding said matters are in pari materia.
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Callixtus posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/2301529/davis-v-state/

"No. 59, September Term, 2011.
Court of Appeals of Maryland."


"The hearing judge denied the motion, citing federal case law defining the location of an "interception" as where the mobile communication was first intercepted or redirected and where it was first heard by law enforcement officers."

"Although, in a few aspects, Maryland's wiretapping statute is more protective of *1046 individual privacy rights than Title III of the Federal Omnibus Crime and Safe Streets Act of 1968 ("Title III"), generally the Maryland statute is an "offspring" of Title III. We have read analogous provisions in our statute to be in pari materia with Title III, as interpreted by federal courts. Because the Title III and Maryland wiretap statute definitions of "interception" are verbatim, we shall adopt here the federal gloss in determining the proper jurisdiction and scope for an ex parte wiretap order. Thus, as long as the "listening post" where the law enforcement officers first hear the intercepted communications is within the geographical jurisdiction of the court issuing the order, the interception is proper under the Maryland statute. Accordingly, we conclude that the motion to suppress evidence was denied properly by the Circuit Court for Montgomery County and, therefore, affirm the judgment of the Court of Special Appeals."


http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/in+pari+materia

"In Pari Materia
[Latin, Upon the same subject.] A designation applied to statutes or general laws that were enacted at different times but pertain to the same subject or object.
Statutes in pari materia must be interpreted in light of each other since they have a common purpose for comparable events or items."


I win.

It's cute that you think adopting a federal gloss from a federal law has anything to do with citing Pennsylvania state law, as anything more than persuasive authority, in a Maryland state court.

It's "cute" that you think federal law doesn't say the same thing and I haven't already provided that law to my attorney. There is no case law on the matter in Maryland as recording your own phone calls has never been unlawful.


https://openjurist.org/493/f2d/346/united-states-v-harpel

"The government has adopted the position of the trial court below that the intercepting device was the recorder and not an extension telephone. While such a view avoids the problem presented, we are simply not persuaded by this contention. We agree with appellant that the recording of a conversation is immaterial when the overhearing is itself legal. It is the means whereby the contents of the conversation are acquired that is crucial. See State v. Vizzini, 115 N.J.Super. 97, 278 A.2d 235. A recording device placed next to, or connected with, a telephone receiver cannot itself be the 'acquiring ' mechanism. It is the receiver which serves this function-- the recorder is a mere accessory designed to preserve the contents of the communication. This interpretation comports squarely with the clear distinction drawn between 'intercepting' and 'recording' under 18 U.S.C. 2518(8)(a), which deals with judicially authorized interceptions:

5
The contents of any wire or oral communication intercepted by any means authorized by this chapter shall, if possible, be recorded on tape or wire or other comparable device.

6
We therefore conclude that the tape recorder in question cannot constitute the intercepting mechanism when used, as it is argued here, connected to a telephone receiver."
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ColdOne666 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

ColdOne666 posted...

Why or how is this guy not in jail yet?

I didn't commit any crimes?

DeNile isn't just a river in Egypt.

and DeFlection isn't just what happens when you hold a shield up to block an incoming small projectile either.
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Aww, such foul words. I am hurt :(
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butthole666 posted...

Is your attorney/the judge/whoever aware of your past cyber attacks against strangers

Did I say I cyber-attacked anyone? I only mentioned information. Even if he was told of such a thing it's inadmissible due to being hearsay and it's not a claim that is supported by tangible evidence.
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ColdOne666 posted...

Why or how is this guy not in jail yet?

I didn't commit any crimes?
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butthole666 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

butthole666 posted...

Didn't TC used to try to phish/DOXX/whatever people on this board with a link to his sketchy website?

Information may state that certain tinychat users may have been DoSed in the past utilizing a Skype backdoor that the CIA has left open for years. The backdoor in question is said to leak IP addresses unless the user is utilizing a proxy. Information may show that clicking links had nothing to do with it.

Why the fuck are you still allowed to access the internet unsupervised?

Why does the CIA leave backdoors open for years without telling security providers?
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0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

butthole666 posted...

Nazanir posted...

butthole666 posted...

DawkinsNumber4 posted...

butthole666 posted...


Contradicts himself by posting (caring)

Does anyone over the age of 12 actually believe this is a valid rebuttal

You're precious.

You constantly try to berate and belittle everyone, try to sound selfimportant, but not once, not even for a second, have you considered that maybe, just maaaaybe, you actually did something wrong.

You described TC lol

He meant to quote me but he is something else...

Hey Dawkins, you seem to have missed my question and reminder about said question and someone else's quoting of my question. Can you please answer it? It really looks like you are scared and running away the way you keep avoiding that, and I know you wouldn't want that.

Well I tried Dash, but it looks like squader is determined to ignore you :/

Well he is on ignore for a reason.
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butthole666 posted...

Didn't TC used to try to phish/DOXX/whatever people on this board with a link to his sketchy website?

Information may state that certain tinychat users may have been DoSed in the past utilizing a Skype backdoor that the CIA has left open for years. The backdoor in question is said to leak IP addresses unless the user is utilizing a proxy. Information may show that clicking links had nothing to do with it.
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