Lurker > Corrik7

htaeD posted...

He said he was your even day counterpart, but he later explained that he had a Terrotorial trait, not a roleblocker trait.

He also said he was an odd day doctor tho.

Oh?

UltimateBrohan posted...

Sorry i kind of forgot this was happening. Kind of forgot not like really forgot like i remembered the other day but just didnt get around to it. Just a lot of shit going on for me and really i shouldnt have signed up so im sorry to the hosts/town for low key throwing.

But im actually town so anyone who pushed hard to lynch me over what i think was a claimed indy is probably mafia

i did not read a thing. Feels cringe to ask for a rundown when i just havent been playing but if anyones got the highlights ill take them

You can just claim

htaeD posted...

Unless I am misunderstanding the power Wallz claimed
If Wallz is directed towards BCT, then that only prevents anyone else from targeting BCT. (setting aside the paradox that creates since BCT would also have to be targeted by the redirector)
I dont recall it preventing the target himself from acting.

I thought he claimed an outright roleblock that complimented my role.

htaeD posted...

Wouldnt have prevented BCT from roleblocking one of scum potentially.

How

htaeD posted...

Not everyone can jump to black and white conclusions as fast as you can apparently, Corrik.

Besides you know I am right. Scum could just have planned this redirect as a frame-up in addition to it being a method to stop 2 townpowers at once.
Hell
If BCT and Wallz are both town and scum only has 1 redirector, why wouldnt they redirect the blocker to Wallz?

Why wouldn't they redirect wallz to bct?

htaeD posted...

All I hear is that Wallz being roleblocked by a redirect is a nultell

You must really enjoy sitting on that fence eh? Been sitting there all game.

wallmasterz posted...

1. Up for debate apparently, 3. whether its true or not we have no reason to take the bolded part for a fact the way Corrik is trying to present it as one. 4. Guess what Im town and fairly certain BCT is town, am I truly confirmed town right now?
Corrik is doing damage control because I was supposed to be todays mislynch and scum got thrown a curve ball because they didnt expect BCT to get this confirmation. Its why Corrik keeps insisting its confirming us both as town even though it technically doesnt, he is having a bigger reaction than really needed.

Your argument here for me to be scum really boils down to the host is a shitty host and didn't tell scum how their powers work.

Like thats lopen tinfoil levels of conspiracy and while lopens theories make him town, they frankly aren't your town wheelhouse. There is zero percent chance the scenario you said exists.

I have said like 30 times, IF he was redirected to you that you are SCUM and not CONFIRMED TOWN. I said they wouldn't use the power on town to town since they knew it was a confirmed redirection, and it would in their mind confirm two town to town so they planned to make a SCUM look like the second confirmed town.

So for the 9 people at home and the 3 people watching around the world... you are SCUM.

I'm saying the only scenario I see wallz being town here still, BCT, is if you are actually scum who targeted wallz directly and lied about being redirected. I think that's infinitismally less likely than scum have redirected town you to scum wallz who got counterclaimed by you and we have no confirmation of his role ever working like he has claimed at any point this game.

htaeD posted...

I suppose.
Redirection is just always confusing
*flashes back to me and BCT last game*

It's hard to balance role diversions a lot without creating paradoxes.

1. Redirector doesn't usually tell the person they are redirected.

2. You said you were told you were redirected.

3. If you are being told you are redirected which is not normal then scum also knew you would be told you were redirected.

4. Scum wouldn't choose to redirect town to town in the scenario of what both your stated powers were because it would confirm you both town.

5. Scum would redirect town to Scum that was counterclaimed to make that Scum look like town and to give him a reason to not have confirmed his power.

Thus, the likelihood is that Scum redirected town BCT to Scum Wallz if you are to be believed, BCT.

I don't know where this confuses you.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

In fact, it seems as if you're scum to me, too, Corrik. You're making no sense.

What don't your understand and I can literally eli5 you because everything I am saying is literally so easy to follow.

htaeD posted...

That scum redirected the town roleblocker to town wallz. And as an addendum that scum didnt expect that town would be told.

Why would scum not know how their powers work? Basically a 0% chance scum didn't know how it worked.

Hold on. Wallz and BCT. Who did you both actually target and whg?

It's a longshot because I think BCT is town but I suppose he could have blocked wallz straight up and wasn't redirected. That would also account for why the redirection is abnormal in that it notified the target of being redirected (because it didn't and BCT messed up).

I literally trust no one as town right now besides BCT.

Igcd and sbell have points in their favor.

Wallz I thought had some good points in his favor yesterday but if Brohan is town then that was him trying to win the game yesterday for his team. I am supremely skeptical of the fact that wallz was conveniently roleblocked by redirection last night. It seems like a clear scum gambit.

However I don't really think brohan is town. So that kinda kills the wallz went for the win if he is scum.

Red has been atrocious this game. His best claim to town has been his lil freak out on whoever not long ago. But he has to actually try at some point.

You reek as trying to just undermine me mostly this game and trying to middle fielder instead of going all in on reads.

htaeD posted...

I will give everyone a fair shake.
Its not like I havent considered that this redirection business could be a coordinated setup to mislead town.
Its not my first theory though and think even less that BCT is involved.

Corrik who do you think the scumteam is at this point?

What is your first theory? My first theory is that they redirected the actual town roleblocker to scum wallz. What's yours?

Death if you are town, you need to ride with me here. We are getting worked and it's making people think I'm scum cuz I'm alive and we are getting worked, but we just killed the scum aligned indy. That's a win. I completely called out Sultan was bullshit lying with everything he said while some hook, line, and sinkered his every word.

If you are scum, then kick rocks.

wallmasterz posted...

Let me translate this. Scum Corrik is big mad Isquen told BCT where his night action got redirected to. Lol.

Think about what Corrik is saying - this isnt how redirect normally works, but also, scum never wouldve done this if they knew it would confirm BCT and wallz town, so scum had to have known BCT would get told it got redirected to me. And scum team used this knowledge in an attempt to confirm me town.

No, the this isnt how it normally works is Corrik being mad and hes ticked that town BCT got confirmation that I, the main mislynch option of the day, was roleblocked. And saying scum never wouldve done this if they knew is quite literally Corrik saying the scum team would not have done this if they knew this would happen.

So I guess this was the first time scum team tried using their redirect lol. Maybe scum has a Jack and the redirect was one time use.

Me explaining that a role isn't normally a confirming role so if it is a confirming role this game and they used it then it would have been used to mislead town on alignments is me being upset? It's literally 101 mafia role mechanics.

Good try.

Only thing that sucks is of brohan is scum then I guess it all doesn't matter as far as who voted who yesterday. Hmmmm.

Isquen posted...

[4] Sultan - (SBell), Death, IGCD, red, Corrik
[3] Brohan - (Corrik), (Death), Dumey, Sultan, wallz
[1] Red - SBell
[0] Corrik - (IGCD)
[0] Wallz - (BCT)
[0] Ashe - (Dumey), (IGCD), (Sultan)

Doublechecking... please wait (also please actually unvote properly next time, giving the benefit of the doubt to both.)

Dang. Dumey was town. Sultan self preserved. Wallz is the only one that was on brohan.

= /

Need to go back and see when death voted brohan and for why.

htaeD posted...

I just think Wallz has been more active and giving off a better vibe.
That and I still dislike how Ashe backpedaled his claim.
As far as content goes I dont even remember what else Ashe did.
Though thats on me as well, and I will look back in each topic to fill the gaps in my memory on each player, even those outside my PoE

PoE was the wrong word to use anyway.
Its more like a top 5
The only one I feel very comfortable about is BCT

So you think scum claimed ninja when it actually moves day 1. Then claimed their actual target they poisoned and went to. Over a person who was literally counterclaimed yesterday?

It's astounding to me that this is the line of events you believe. You are probably scum too.

Wallz, brohan, and death? Just need 1 more.

Did death try to save Sultan also? I wanna see who all tried to save Sultan cuz that was such an obvious flag to scum that it was ridiculous.

htaeD posted...

I am not calling him certain town there.
But nothing I have seen has made me think Wallz is certain scum either.
(I also still dont agree with you that Ashe has to be town)
Plus I have genuinely liked his posts more than anyone I mentioned in that list of mine anyway.

PS, you need claim the rest of your traits Corrik.

Ashe looks a whole lot better than wallz. Can you even go as far to tell me what Ashe has done worse than wallz? I mean, if you have Ashe behind wallz then I wanna know how.

htaeD posted...

Bah. I couldnt be sure if scum would kill one of the claimed protections tonight or if they would go for Edumey. I targeted Wallz last night as he was the only one who claimed to have powers on both nights and figured he would be more of a threat to scum if he was town. Edumey was a nilla this night after all.

But I was wrong about who scum would kill, and my action didnt do anything.

I didnt expect redirections to happen tonight either, but I did wonder (and moreso now) if scum just has a dedicated redirector instead of a dedicated roleblocker. Or maybe whoever their redirector is swaps between players.
Did anyone even claim to be blocked regularly so far? Besides Ashe and Wallz that is, whose blocks were claimed by Corrik and BCT respectively.
And regardless of the trait swaps, I expect scum has a way to hinder townpowers on both nights.

Given that since I dont move on odd nights, my odd power cannot feasibly interact with redirection anyway. Just feels that its there to give us a heads up about redirectors existing.

PoE is still looking like Ashe, Brohan, Corrik, IGCD and Red to me.

There is no way you think wallz is town. Like no way.

Ashethan posted...

How did he try to save brohan? He voted for him.

I obviously mean Sultan. He tried to save scum aligned Sultan.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Please explain how this would confirm both me and Wall town. I get how it confirms me, but not Wall.

The thought process would be that they moved towns action onto town.

Im saying he isn't town. They wanted him to appear to be town by choosing him as the target.

Do you get what I mean? They chose a scum target to redirect to purposely to make him appear to be town.

Also, while we are on it. Results usually don't say action x on target y was successful or had result z.

They usually say "Action successful" or "Result was Innocent"

Thus, no scum would use redirect for two town to confirm them both town in the scenario where you are given your target, which let's them know a redirect happens.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Town gets the same results as scum does. If their target was changed, they will always know - at least that's how it's been in my experience. Like if a cop gets redirected, they will get a result "You have scanned __ innocent" - the same applies to any other role, yes?

Correct. And scum would never have used this power on two town if they know it confirms them both town. This is NOT how scum redirector usually works. They had to of known using the redirects was just going to confirm town.

I'm suggesting they used it specifically on you to wallz to try and confirm wallz town while also giving him a timely reason why he couldn't self confirm his power.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

He would've won with town some nights and scum on others. What are you talking about?

It was mylo with him as survivor. He lied about being town sided because he knew it was mylo. He was never trying to win with town anymore at that point. Just biding time til he met win conditions with scum.

Red, thoughts on wallz and brohan?

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I received a message saying that I roleblocked Wall, when I had outright stated to the host that he was not my target as I was explaining my thoughts. The one I said I was roleblocking was somebody else.

Yeah that's almost never how redirecting works. It's not spose to let you know your target changed. Otherwise it would just be a confirming town power for scum. Almost assuredly its being used to try and confirm wallz as town, who is clearly the most scum looking person today with being counterclaimed and trying to save brohan to win with Sultan.

It's mylo but brohan and wallz are both scum together. I'll wait for others, but my vote is essentially on either of them.

BlueCrystalTear posted...

Okay. Time to elaborate. I've seen redirector work one of two ways:
1. Redirects X's action to Y
2. Redirects all actions against Z to Y (aka a one-way busdrive)
Meaning, if it were #1, scum would've said "Redirect BCT to Wall" - thus roleblocking Wall - but if it were #2, scum woud've had to guess my initial target correct in order to use the power.

In the... I'd guess 10% chance it's the latter, I wanna refrain from claiming who I aimed for a little, just to see if there's more we can get out of that.

He would've won with town some nights and scum on others. What are you talking about?

This feels like a scum post.

So does this. You do realize you were the one who changed last-second, yes? And now you're gonna say you were "holding off" on doing that, aren't you? I don't buy that at all.

I wanted to actually try to kill scum before we got to MYLO.

I told you killing Sultan was the more sound plan all day. I even said why it was more sound. Wallz wanted to tie the vote and let Sultan do what he wanted. I fought against this and correctly said this was a lie. I killed the basically 5th scum yesterday with my vote change.

Wallz tried to save brohan at the end oddly enough.

Also, BCT you know for sure you were redirected? It seems timely that you counterclaimed wallz and then wallz couldn't confirm his power, and then wallz somehow changed his power also??? He says it not was roleblocking anyone who came to visit him and not what he said before?

I'm thinking wallz had you redirected to himself or used a lightning rod on you to take your roleblock protection out to ensure their nightkill got off and then is trying to use it as confirmation he is town.

Redirecting almost NEVER works where it tells you that your target was changed. Results usually just tell you if your action was successful or not, not on your target. Scum redirector would be a pointless role if anytime you moved a town role to town it confirmed both as town with host verification. Thus, the fact it does provide the confirmation makes me think this is being used to try and confirm scum as town. Otherwise no one would ever use this power.

If brohan is town, then scum was trying to win by saving Sultan yesterday. Thus, everyone who tried to save Sultan is suspect.

wallmasterz posted...

Corrik, what the hell was your last second vote change?

As BCT said, I was roleblocked. As all of you, town or otherwise will have confirmed that I was telling the truth after the game, it sucks because I finally picked the right person to protect. In this case it was protection by roleblocking anyone who came to visit, but you get my point. Sorry I couldnt keep you around Dumey.

im probably dying tonight if we make it that far because with BCT vouching for me getting RBd, I feel scum is not gonna succeed in getting me mislynched like they obviously kept me alive to do. And of course it may not matter if we lynch wrong and the game ends, but I randomly feel confident that Im not getting mislynched for a change.

Um, I killed the person who won with scum. If I was wrong on brohan, Sultan and scum won. So i saved the game.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I think we should just straight up lynch Sultan. Worst case scenario we get rid of third party, best case scenario we get rid of scum trying a poorly planned gambit.

Its not a bad idea. I think there is a zero percent he is scum, but he is a survivor who wins with scum and essentially is the 5th scum tomorrow for the win if we lynch wrong today.

htaeD posted...

Yeah I figured the first part myself
And it does sound too cool to be true.

Heck while I dont think Corriks theory is entirely accurate, he did give me the idea that maybe Sultans role just works entirely the other way around, if he has it.

It likely is he just picks regardless. He is a survivor. He picks who helps his cause the most, in what he thinks is correct.

He just wanted to tell scum to not shoot him tonight so he literally claimed 3rd party. He woulda just claimed this as town if he wasn't flagging to scum.

If Sultan claimed this day 1 or 2 or when the game isn't likely in mylo after the scum + 3rd party survivor which he just flagged to their team so they don't shoot him.

Listen. I got a million literal problems with sultans claim.

Scum wouldn't wanna kill Sultan today though if they don't have to.

I'm killing Sultan or brohan. One is openly admitted 3rd party. One is likely scum. Sultan is the smarter play and less risk admittedly.

htaeD posted...

I thought you were saying he admitted to a change in his win condition

Uh no? I said he waited to say this in the exact scenario if he is lying that he just wins the next day if he was lying.

Obellisk posted...

it doesn't exist. I think corrik is making shit up

What doesn't exist. He is 3rd party. 4 scum + 1 indy. If he is lying, he kills town, and then he wins tomorrow with scum. You telling me numbers don't exist or...?

Obellisk posted...

if Sultan is honest a tie means that he'll auto kill scum or random kill town?

so a town death = a town confirmed and a scum death = town confirmed.

He said that where if he auto kills town he wins with scum the next day. He didn't propose that before the scenario came up. He has said he is 3rd party. He cannot be trusted. I am not taking any weight in that.

EDumey posted...

I still think Ashethan is scum btw, but just for the reasons I did D3. I fear that my bungling of analyzing things is just providing him cover now. Please don't misconstrue my dumb actions as town confirming Ashe. The only thing I've confirmed is that he's a Ninja as claimed. Also that I'm an idiot, which is why I asked Corrik and/or Red to carry my at the start of day. :P

##Unvote

At least until I can screw my head on straight and recontextualize things.

All you have done is convince me he is town.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Red and Sultan as scum makes so much sense tobme

Sultan wouldn't have claimed survivor as scum. So they aren't aligned as both scum. Sultan isn't a good boy though.

So im guessing Sultan tossed the flag up to scum and wants to try and push this Ashe mislynch through so they can win tomorrow. = /

1. Ashethan. - Almost assuredly Town
2. Corrik7 / Corrik - Hundo Town
3. EDumey / Dumey - Almost assuredly Town
4. htaeD / Death - directly in poe and seems to look opportunistic with Ashe.
5. IfGodCouldDie / IGCD - had early game reasoning in his favor. Could be flawed letting him skate by. Weird votes end of day 3. But weird votes are normal for him too.
6. BlueCrystalTear / BCT (replaces Lea) - feels town with the counter claim.
7. Obellisk / Sbell - had the early game in his favor. This could be flawed and causing him to skate by.
8. red13n / Leafeon13n - miller... ehhhh... seems confused on Ashes role so if scum he is basically an inactive one and not lurking.
9. TheSultanofSlam / Sultan - openly claimed 3p survivor. Sigh.
10. UltimateBrohan / Brohan - looking like scum now sadly.
11. wallmasterz / Wallz - debatable. Town response to my role but very scummy elsewhere. Counter claimed but is this a trap?

Even more confident edumey is town due to his error here in how he looked at things. Ashe is very likely town also. People are skating by here that are scum for sure while town argues with itself.

So your theory edumey is just wrong and you need to back off of it. You are overlooking why FD was actually roleblocked. It's leading you down a bad path here.

FD was roleblocked by the chain hung btw.