Lurker > LinkMarioSamus

Can't say I'm a fan, but I'm glad I saw it. On a scale of 1-10 I give it a 5.

I dunno, I actually find that interesting but I definitely get the opposite viewpoint. It's basically a $300 million indie movie that's also the middle chapter of a Star Wars trilogy.

I think if Cap 4 has around the same (net) budget as The Marvels and gets reviews about on par, it will still be a box office success just because Disney is able to promote it properly and it releases in February instead of a crowded November.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

TLJ was influenced by ESB as much as TFA was by ANH.

Even Luke refusing to train Rey was an ESB plotbeat.

TLJ suffers from having half of its movie be utterly pointless.

TLJ kept trying to subvert ESB but its subversions didn't mean anything so it seemed like a re-hash still.

It was like Metal Gear Solid 2 in relation to MGS1, Metroid Fusion in relation to Super Metroid, or Wind Waker in relation to Ocarina of Time, but nowhere near as good as any of those.

TFA did kind of blow the trilogys load early by primarily playing the hits tbf.

I saw it in 2020 when I was bored. I was amazed by the monster fights and bored by everything else. Curious to know who else has seen it since it seems to be a bit of a nostalgic favorite for some.

Defund the police lol

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I think that Episode 7 painted the trilogy into a corner.

It some respects it tried to match Episode 4 beat for beat, but in many others it just took a steaming dump all over 4/5/6 by making what happened "back then" completely pointless.

The New Republic? Pointless. The remnants of the empire were both simultaneously a "small faction" that the New Republic didn't consider to be a threat, but also large enough to build a super duper death star. And large enough for Leia's new Resistance to still be outnumbered.

Han and Leia? Separated (why? They say it's because of what happened with Kylo, but then they pulled the bullshit Kylo redemption in 9 so the event that caused pain enough to separate them wasn't even permanent)

The Jedi? More or less nonexistent (again), and really no explanation given in 7 as to why that was the case.

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Episode 7 was just a parade of "the universe sucks again, and rather than really explain WHY we're just going to introduce a dozen different things and force the next guy to keep them spinning and/or provide answers to them that we haven't even figured out yet".

All Abrams knows how to do is introduce mysteries that may or may not ever get explained. It sometimes results in good/satisfying payoff, but he doesn't seem concerned with that, only the hook of the next mysterious thing. It ruined the sequel trilogy (imo) and I have a hard time blaming Johnson for trying to do something other than deal with the mysterious plot mines that Abrams had left for him.

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The fact that it just tries to be A New Hope again means it's hard for it to be excessively terrible, but it's when I take a step back and see the impact it had on the universe that was established in 4/5/6 that it feels tragic.

It probably didn't help that I read a good chunk of the Extended Universe novels that came out in the decades between 6 and 7. And I knew that those weren't going to count anymore, which is fine. I knew 7 wasn't going to follow the same plots that appeared in my favorite books (Original Thrawn Trilogy would have been legit though), but did it have to ruin the futures of all the original characters?

I don't know if it's because I was never that much into Star Wars until c. 2018, but I never had that much of a problem with the sequel trilogy's happy ending override. If anything The Force Awakens did a better job justifying it than something like Alien 3 or Terminator 3, although this is likely just a case of me being desensitized to a movie being rendered pointless by its sequel in a way many devoted Star Wars fans are not. Furthermore, if you think about it the New Republic actually outlasted the Galactic Empire assuming the former began right when the latter ended, so it's less the heroes' victories were pointless and more they were short-lived. It's like saying WWII rendered WWI pointless.

CassandraCain posted...

They probably thought that since the OT was made without a plan they could do the same. The problem is the internet exists nowadays when it didn't back then. They either should have had a plan from the outset or ignored all of the reactions on reddit and stuck with some kind of throughline.

Like seriously they got terrified after seeing all the complaints about TLJ and tried to retcon it in the final movie. Absolute cowardice. And a complete fuck you to the other half of the fanbase who liked TLJ.

Honestly they should have just let Abrams do the whole trilogy. He's the one who set up a bunch of loose questions in TFA with the assumption he wouldn't have to answer any of them.

Fwiw apparently the pitch for Rise of Skywalker was locked in the day before The Last Jedi came out, meaning there was no backlash towards the latter informing the former. Even when I saw it I got more the vibe that Abrams didn't know how to work with what Johnson left for him rather than intentionally going back on it, plus the movie's editor has made it clear the whole thing was a rush job.

Waluigi1 posted...

It just still blows my mind that they went into a new SW trilogy without any sort of plan or outline. I will never get over that.

You think most studios have a plan in mind when they announce a trilogy? Just most of the time they don't get to make the trilogies. Plus keep in mind this was when Marvel Studios was getting flack for executive meddling turning directors like Patty Jenkins, Joss Whedon, and Edgar Wright away...notwithstanding the former two tanking their own reputations later on anyway.

Paramount shouldn't really be winning going by just this decade, but they're definitely in the worst shape now. Also realized technically WB has this year's box-office champion too so far, though Disney will definitely take that crown back lol.

WB is winning in a landslide, guess people don't forgive the Coyote v. Acme tax writeoff lol.

WB is winning after the hot streak they've been on recently, at least more palatable than Sony. In fairness 2020 and 2021 were absolutely brutal for WB (I guess Godzilla vs. Kong and Dune were the only real bright spots, lol WB relying on Legendary Pictures bailing them out repeatedly), which is a big reason for the Discovery Communications buyout and the reign of Zaslav. WB's idiot AT&T leadership should not be let off the hook, though we also shouldn't go around acting like former CEO Ann Sarnoff was trying to infect every brand with feminism because that's totally how women work right?

Johnbobb posted...

man I feel like that one died as fast as it appeared

The joke being the winner of that fan-voted cheer award or whatever it was at the 2022 Oscars...which were such a disaster even without taking into account the behavior of a certain Bad Boy.

Speaking of which, it's not especially related to this topic but I feel like Will Smith has always being Hollywood's premier manchild, at least since like the mid-'90s.

I was thinking so yes.

Paramount is in the worst shape at the moment, but I think Disney has had it worse this decade. Also what do you mean Disney made money overall...oh I guess those box-office losses were erased by other factors lol. I mean I kind of only meant box office but I see your point.

Anyway Disney is ruling this summer again. Hollywood is stupid.

I like how Sony has more votes than the company that had over $1 billion worth in losses last year...I guess Inside Out 2 makes Disney look better though.

Underleveled posted...

WB for being in such apparent financial turmoil that they have to delete finished films as tax write-offs.

WB has had too many hits lately for me to vote them but this is not a good look in the least. Also probably no coincidence Disney and WB are going through such tough times in particular given their leadership changes.

FFDragon posted...

Sony has Morbin time and spider mom so them

Yeah I ruled Sony out because they have technically had two domestic box office champions this decade and no especially massive bomb (Morbius actually made more than double its budget worldwide). The problem is that it seems like WB and Sony are overall considerably more controversial than Disney which has merely had a lot of expensive box office bombs this decade but is really only drawing ire from anti-progressive types.

Speaking of, I like how The Marvels is supposedly the biggest confirmed box office bomb of all time and doesn't seem to have impacted its company, franchise, or its actors' careers nearly as much as something with that title you'd think would. I think it's plainly obvious the movie's biggest hurdle came from Disney's poor marketing.

I had no problem with Palpatine being resurrected, but him having been behind the First Order all along is harder for me to wrap my head around.

Tbh I would absolutely view the trilogy as a dumpster fire if all three movies weren't fairly easy to follow plot-wise. At least regarding their own plots anyways, the less said about how they fit into the whole franchise the better.

SaveEstelle posted...

Yeah, when the trades are pubbing info on exit polling, you'll often see something like...

"Suicide Squad's B+ Cinemascore polling doesn't inspire confidence in a strong second weekend."

And it's reasonable to kind of look at that, and think, "that doesn't seem so bad!" But it's really not great! These are quite curved.

Yeah like I said earlier it's all but impossible for a comic book movie to have a Cinemascore lower than C- due to how hyped and/or "crowd-pleasing" they tend to be. Examples of the kinds of mismarketed star vehicles that had Cinemascores in the D range include Eyes Wide Shut and Punch-Drunk Love. There's a reason I only put up the ones for comic book movies.

xenosaga posted...

Suicide Squad and The Suicide Squad being the same tier might be the craziest thing about this list

When you consider how much more hyped the original was plus the second having a more mainstream-unfriendly R rating and an unclear relationship with the first, not that much. Better comparisons might be Pulp Fiction, Fargo, Inception, and Mad Max: Fury Road all having the same Cinemascore to name but a few.

Something else I noticed is how there seem to be so many more movies with an A Cinemascore than the others...except then there are more B+'s and even B's than A's in the 2020s. I'll flat-out admit that Dan Murrell's repeated box office coverage where he brings up the Cinemascore a lot is the reason I started looking into it in the first place, and while it's more of a marketing tool things like this make you wonder. Doesn't help that both of the studios that rely on comic book movies - Disney and WB - have gone through leadership turnovers and attempted to push their respective streaming services to a much greater degree than Universal and Paramount did, to say nothing of Sony not having one.

Yeah I figured. The only justifiable reasons for Biden working with him at all are America's traditional alliance with Israel and not wanting the Middle East to be destabilized further since Israel is apparently also at war with Iran.

Ifrit posted...

Biden should actually halt it and be like "Well, I didn't want to make Netanyahu a liar."

I thought Biden only started restricting supplies sent to Israel recently (not even cutting them off completely), so this says a lot about the PM if he's throwing a fit over this.

Biden might genuinely be one of the best world leaders now just because he's not a lunatic. Or should I not use that term because it's able-ist? Sorry, no sarcasm meant.

most_games_r_ok posted...

Is C- the lowest it goes. Those last 3 movies be anywhere in C tier is a joke

Sorry for the double reply but typically horror movies and mismarketed star vehicles get D's and F's.

Most movie memes now are probably about the production or advertising details, and if they are actually in the movie then they're more likely to be moments rather than lines.

Where were you when The Flash entered the Speed Force?

I was also wondering why Republicans seem so worried that without Presidential immunity a former POTUS could be politically persecuted by a rival after losing to them...then I remember Republicans don't really seem to have a clue what constitutes a crime to begin with. More reason to deny them office ever again. I can't believe they're acting so surprised over Trump getting tripped up like this.

See AI-generated MLK voice, all I need to know.

Also is it just me or do right-wing conspiracy theories get dumber and dumber? It's unbelievably jarring to hear about Republicans decrying the way the justice system is used against them after months of watching Trump get his criminal trials delayed. And yet I see YouTube comments about the "authoritarian" government using the law to get rid of its political rivals. Sure.

The worst part is because I don't follow politics especially closely I get caught up in these frames of mind until I step back and realize it's all a load of crap. Republicans aren't even a cult anymore - they're a mob now. Why do you think they talk about "Presidents going after their political opponents" as an excuse to grant presidential immunity? Especially rich when they complain about Trump being convicted while "violent criminals are still on the streets" or something, like they have such a one-dimensional view of the world.

Trump really is his own worst enemy. In 2016 you couldn't talk smack about him without seeming like you were stooping to his level. From 2020 onwards he has been in a protracted nervous breakdown and that's no longer really true.

LightningStrikes posted...

A lot of people did! Still one of the best Star Wars movies.

It really jars me when people act like saying TLJ is good is an unpopular opinion, since most of the YouTubers I follow liked the movie. That being said, most of them are just kind of general movie reviewers (think Nostalgia Critic) whose tastes are comparatively more likely to fall in line with those of professional critics since they watch basically every high-profile new release, but the A Cinemascore for both the first two movies in the sequel trilogy indicates that at the very least opening-day audiences responded very positively towards them, to say nothing of the box office. What I get is if you went to see those movies because you recognized the Star Wars brand name, you were probably going to like them if not love them, and since the movies don't give me any impression they were made or marketed any differently they should be assessed primarily that way.

Bitto posted...

are you sure you're not LMS

I don't like Rose or Holdo but I still like them more than basically everyone introduced in the prequel trilogy. At least I REMEMBER the former.

I was thinking of making a topic with this poll! Anyway I voted JW even though I have not seen Dominion.

Someone will bring in a sports almanac from the future, use it to become filthy rich, and then keep Trump in power.

It shows a 52% chance of Biden winning to me. Also keep in mind that Trump announced his candidacy for POTUS well ahead of time specifically with the aim of politicizing his criminal trials, so of course his supporters will be more likely to express solidarity with him.

Still think Trump is toast. Watch the Republicans nominate him again next election in that case, when Trump is 82.

Obellisk posted...

I haven't been paying attention to this gun case.

Did Hunter try to murder someone? Or did he just have a secret gun?

Something about Hunter lying about not being a drug addict on a form, though it's chump change compared to Trump's legal problems.

Wanglicious posted...

Cosby and Weinstein were both cases where the judge and trial was prejudiced too much against them. in the case of Cosby, he was uniquely situated where the prosecutor fucked up and it was the only case that could be brought against him. Weinstein meanwhile, still in jail because he was previously convicted by state courts.

and the only piece of shit bigger than amber heard in that case is the one she left in the bed. the only injustice there was 1, no criminal charges filed against her, and 2, depp needing to technically pay anything, even if she paid a ton more.

Weinstein still has to serve his California sentence either way, yes. However, his 2020 rape conviction was historic nonetheless and it felt like a kick in the face to many for it to be reversed. And yet there was less virulent reactions towards the law then compared to Trump getting convicted, because that makes sense.

The worst part about the whole Trump conviction thing is I get the feeling faith in the law isn't very high even among Democrats, what with Roe v. Wade being overturned, Bill Cosby's and Harvey Weinstein's rape convictions being overturned, and Amber Heard being successfully sued for defamation by her own abuser.

Cry me a river if I don't care about Trump's new legal problems. If anything it seems like he's getting treated like a king.

Am I the only one who feels as if Biden is basically an afterthought in this election and that's it's basically all about Trump? Hmmm, not like 2020 at all or anything.

Guess Biden's good at flying under the radar or something.

In other words, the Republican Party is a cult.

Also realizing I can think of only two instances of "leftists" jumping to conclusions about something and many more of the right doing so, at least within the past decade. The two in question being people calling James Rolfe a misogynist in 2016 when he made a video explaining that he did not want to see the Ghostbusters reboot, and people calling Chuggaaconroy a rapist or pedophile after his misconduct allegations earlier this year. And even then the right was quick to jump to conclusions about cancel culture in both cases.

Personally I thought even before the pandemic that he was as bad as I thought he'd be if not worse, although part of me still kind of thinks Bush was a worse POTUS overall. Trump's supporters get on my nerves a lot more than the man himself does, which is saying something. The 2016 election also seems like even more of a damn lie considering they were trying to slam Hillary Clinton as a criminal and now the exact same people don't think being a criminal is a particularly bad quality for a POTUS.

I also just realized that Trump's initial impeachment being over him trying to work with Ukraine's government to dig up dirt on Hunter Biden in late 2019 and the GOP's apparent continued attempts to impeach Joe Biden basically mean people who insinuate that Republicans don't use the law to go after their political opponents are even more full of crap than I imagined. Along with Hunter himself being on trial now, albeit not for political matters.

Dancedreamer posted...

I'm always willing to forgive people as long as they change.

Voting Trump in 2016 is still pretty awful. But not unforgivable if they didn't vote for him in 2020 or don't plan on voting him in 2024. I don't think there's a good reason to have voted him in 2016. You could have voted third party. But I'm willing to let that pass if they've stopped voting for him and won't vote for him ever again.

Lots of people genuinely wanted him as POTUS, whether it was because they understood his position best, they flat-out agreed with him, or they didn't want Hillary Clinton to be POTUS. Obviously that last one is no longer a concern, hence why I say I have no proof that Trump can beat another white man in a national election.

Now I'm thinking Biden gets 76 million votes to Trump's 65 million.

most_games_r_ok posted...

Is C- the lowest it goes. Those last 3 movies be anywhere in C tier is a joke

Again, Cinemascores tend to skew higher. The founder said something along the lines of A's generally being good, B's generally being shaky, and C's generally being bad. Also keep in mind this is polling opening day audiences who would be most likely to rate a movie positively.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Well yeah, that's why he said "better" and not "good". I don't think anyone here thinks Biden's response re: isreal has been good. It's just objectively less awful than it would have been if trump was still president.

In fairness Israel is one of America's closest allies. Biden doesn't want to just throw away that alliance so easily, especially since it would likely lead to further destabilization of that region...though I'm now hearing Israel's PM just wants full genocide on Gaza so hopefully Biden sees the light soon.

Thorn posted...

We all knew Clarence Thomas is corrupt af but this image puts it in even better perspective. Bar graph of all gifts received by the Justices over the past 20 years.

And the "Undisclosed, but later found out" bit is nearly half of Thomas's bar already and god knows what else hasn't been disclosed.

https://www.threads.net/@marmels/post/C74aN30JNKE

Tbf a third of the Supreme Court was appointed by someone who's now a convicted felon. And yet somehow such an occasion isn't nearly as big a deal as you'd think.

Yeah Cinemascores tend to skew higher, ESPECIALLY for tentpole releases. WW84 might have also been helped by its apparent optimistic/uplifting nature and the fact that few actually saw it in theaters.

Felt like gathering this all in one place, just for the heck of it. For those not in the know, Cinemascore is a firm polling opening-day audiences.

A+
Black Panther
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-verse
Avengers: Endgame
Spider-Man: No Way Home

A
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Ant-Man
Deadpool
Captain America: Civil War
Doctor Strange
Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2
Wonder Woman
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Thor: Ragnarok
Avengers: Infinity War
Deadpool 2
Captain Marvel
Shazam!
Spider-Man: Far From Home
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 3
Spider-Man: Across the Spider-verse
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem

A-
X-Men: Apocalypse
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows
The LEGO Batman Movie
Logan
Ant-Man and the Wasp
Aquaman
Black Widow
The Batman
DC League of Super Pets

B+
Suicide Squad
Kingsman: The Golden Circle
Justice League
Teen Titans Go! To The Movies
Venom
Joker
Birds of Prey
Wonder Woman 1984
The Suicide Squad
Venom: Let There Be Carnage
Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
Thor: Love & Thunder
Shazam!: Fury of the Gods
Blue Beetle

B
Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice
Men in Black: International
Bloodshot
Eternals
Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania
The Flash
The Marvels
Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom

B-
Dark Phoenix
The Kitchen

C+
Morbius
Madame Web

C-
Fantastic Four

Seeing comments on MSN news articles along the lines of "anyone who isn't brainwashed knows this trial is a farce" and "this destroys any faith in America's institutions". I expected to see people making excuses akin to all Presidents/politicians being criminals or crooks and Trump just getting caught, but what the heck is this? The worst part is I'm not even opposed to questioning institutions in the first place, but wow.

All of the idiotic Republican conspiracy theories about Trump's conviction (not sure if I should name them) also make it clear to me that people are just way too quick to jump to conclusions nowadays. I've noticed it happen repeatedly on the Internet and it's really sad to see it playing out on a grand scale twice with Trump considering both the 2020 election and his conviction now. I do understand why Republicans jump to conclusions in some instances (e.g. Trump would have won the 2020 election if votes had stopped being counted by the end of election day, the conviction happening when he's the party's presumptive nomination for presidential candidate), but it's still sad beyond belief.

I swear every time I think of anything I don't like about Republicans it never takes me long to remember Democrats aren't above the same dumb stuff. It goes the other way around too however. It feels to me like Democrats have a tendency to descend into arguing which gives gung-ho Republicans the chance to sneak up on them the way they did Trump in the 2016 election, but then it also seems to me like the only thing actually uniting Republicans is the notion that Democrats are evil and then they keep arguing which allows Democrats to sneak up on them the way Biden did in 2020.

Neither party really seems to work any differently. I also genuinely tend to have the same problems with both progressives and anti-progressives.