Lurker > KamikazePotato

Are there any individual trailers up?

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ninkendo posted...

oh ya Dragon Quest 3 remake in Octopath engine

Let's fucking go

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Dahlia's is good too, but yeah Engarde would get like 70% of the votes in that poll

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The first usage of Phoenix with his head in his hands hits like a truck. JFA has some pretty weak breakdowns overall so it's between that and Engarde, maybe Acro if you really like what they were going for there.

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Counterpoint: space is rad

Checkmate, atheists

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You can't make me care about potential overspending on space stuff when our military budget is $800 billion tbh

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Xord had the biggest impact on me

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I really appreciate that Board 8 is a place where it's totally unsurprising that someone has video game writeups saved from 8 years ago, and that's not sarcasm

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Von Karma headbanging is amazing as well. I think that sold his breakdown the most.

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You were there for that topic! And going "oh no" with every post that got closer to the end that did not yet include FFX.

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By the way, this is what B8 voted as their favorite stories last year, just for reference's sake

1.Final Fantasy X
2.Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations
3.NieR: Automata
4.Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
5.Undertale
6.Final Fantasy VII
7.Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward
8.Life is Strange
9.Silent Hill 2
10.Nier
11.Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
12.The House in Fata Morgana
13.Disco Elysium
14.The Last of Us
15.Planescape: Torment
16.Umineko
17.Chrono Trigger
18.Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors
19.BioShock
20.The Walking Dead: A Telltale Games Series
21.The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 1&2
22.Steins;Gate
23.Suikoden II
24.Portal 2
25.The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
26.Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4
27.Xenogears
28.Final Fantasy IX
29.Mass Effect 2
30.Final Fantasy VI
31.Metal Gear Solid
32.Deadly Premonition
33.Grim Fandango
34.Xenoblade Chronicles
35.Final Fantasy Tactics
36.Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
37.To the Moon
38.Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony
39.Outer Wilds
40.Red Dead Redemption 2
41.SOMA
42.Utawarerumono Mask of Deception & Mask of Truth
43.Mother 3
44.Horizon Zero Dawn
45.Dark Souls
46.Persona 5 & Persona 5 Royal
47.What Remains of Edith Finch
48.Spec Ops: The Line
49.Tales of Berseria
50.Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective
51.The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
52.Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers
53.Celeste
54.Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
55.Tales of the Abyss
56.The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
57.Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
58.Doki Doki Literature Club
59.Vagrant Story
60.Gone Home
61.Gyakuten Kenji 2
62.Yakuza 0
63.Super Paper Mario

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Ask and thou shalt receive!

1.Final Fantasy X
2.Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations
3.NieR: Automata
4.Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
5.Undertale
6.Final Fantasy VII
7.Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward
8.Life is Strange
9.Silent Hill 2
10.Nier
11.Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
12.The House in Fata Morgana
13.Disco Elysium
14.The Last of Us
15.Planescape: Torment
16.Umineko
17.Chrono Trigger
18.Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors
19.BioShock
20.The Walking Dead: A Telltale Games Series
21.The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky 1&2
22.Steins;Gate
23.Suikoden II
24.Portal 2
25.The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
26.Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4
27.Xenogears
28.Final Fantasy IX
29.Mass Effect 2
30.Final Fantasy VI
31.Metal Gear Solid
32.Deadly Premonition
33.Grim Fandango
34.Xenoblade Chronicles
35.Final Fantasy Tactics
36.Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
37.To the Moon
38.Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony
39.Outer Wilds
40.Red Dead Redemption 2
41.SOMA
42.Utawarerumono Mask of Deception & Mask of Truth
43.Mother 3
44.Horizon Zero Dawn
45.Dark Souls
46.Persona 5 & Persona 5 Royal
47.What Remains of Edith Finch
48.Spec Ops: The Line
49.Tales of Berseria
50.Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective
51.The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
52.Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers
53.Celeste
54.Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
55.Tales of the Abyss
56.The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
57.Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
58.Doki Doki Literature Club
59.Vagrant Story
60.Gone Home
61.Gyakuten Kenji 2
62.Yakuza 0
63.Super Paper Mario

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TheRock1525 posted...

"Luke can't be held responsible for his actions because he didn't know better, but when a completely unexpected phonic resonance occurs when Luke tries to stop Tear, that's literally kidnapping!"

You know I held off on pointing out that multiple people in the topic don't care that Tear kidnapped Luke accidentally but blame Luke for Akzeriuth, but hey thanks for putting up the strawman for me

I don't actually care if Tear kidnapped Luke, but Luke definitely could have - and didn't really, which is a point against him being a TOTAL asshole (even if he is one)

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Tear literally kidnapped Luke and he basically shrugs it off

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Kenri posted...

Von Karma > Gant > Sahwit > the rest

This. I threw a vote to Gant though because his is almost as good as Von Karma.

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I don't think Celeste is a non-story driven game. The gameplay is a bigger deal but the story is also a very important part of the experience.

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I liked Fallout 4 a lot.

...For the gameplay.

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EA buying Bioware is one of the most unfortunate events in gaming history, I think. It marked an almost immediate end to their WRPG dominance. And not just because of what happened to Mass Effect. Did you know that at the onset, Dragon Age 1's sales were actually better than Mass Effect's? And now look at it - DA2 was a mess, DA3 was divisive, and DA4 is vaporware. Just kneecapped all their flagship series.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRViSGk02OI

I can't get over this one song. It's dangerously close to sounding like that one basement theme from Resident Evil.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Sakuraba is a pretty good composer but I always got the feeling he hates having to fill out Tales OSTs

I might be misquoting/remembering, but I think he stated as much in an interview. Although it was a more PR-friendly statement, where he said the Tales teams micromanaged his composing a lot.

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I think Symphonia probably has the best soundtrack in the series, if only because the instrumentation it uses is more pleasant on the ears. And it's still not a very good OST.

Actually, the Tales game with the highest ratio of good:bad songs is Crestoria, the gacha mobile game, which really should have been a full release considering how good its story is.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

Would you have waited an six months of development time to get Mordin/Legion/Wrex as proper ME3 squadmates y/n

I would have waited two years.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also my hot Tales music take is that Vesperia is the one with the garbage soundtrack.

This is also true. Tales is probably the biggest JRPG series that has a lot of not great music. I like half of Berseria's OST a lot, mostly the boss themes and Velvet's Piano Theme (which is extremely good), but some of the songs in it are just embarrassing.

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Also real talk, the actual worst reason to avoid Abyss is that the soundtrack is ass. Meaning of Birth is lit and the rest is, well, not

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Honestly they shouldn't of shook up the crew at all after 2. It really should have just continued on from the end.

They screwed themselves out of this option by ME2 ending in the Suicide Mission where pretty much everyone can die. Too many variables that would be murder on development time for everyone to be there at the start.

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Inspiring discussion is not equivalent to quality. The Room also inspires discussion.

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It's baffling to me that Jacob and Veda exist after the lukewarm reception Kaidan and Ashley got. What wastes of space they are.

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Leonhart4 posted...

And the point is "If I can change, and you can change, everybody can change."

Rocky IV basically already told the same story, but I appreciate having it in video game form

Theoretically, I would like it too! I just think the way TotA tries to tell it is very misguided and problematic.

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_stingers_ posted...

If he were more willing to introspection, it's possible there is a point where he stops and thinks, Why has this guy been so nice to me despite the fact that everyone else gets fed up with my shit? and the game can go differently.

I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption for him to have. Van has known Luke for years and they actually treat each other pretty well. There are plenty of assholes out there that have one or two friends that they're actually good pals with, and it would be ridiculous for them to assume that that one good friend they have is going to do a 180 heel turn and trick him into killing a bunch of people.

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xp1337 posted...

I don't think that's a complete analogy though!

Abyss: The party doesn't say Akzeriuth is 100% on Luke. They recognize that Van masterminded the whole thing and told him to do it. Now, minus Jade, they also think they're dealing with a young adult who should have the general knowledge, critical thinking, and self-awareness accompanying that. They (again, minus Jade which is why he is absolutely an utter asshole here) don't realize they're dealing with someone who is mentally a child (this is a fair criticism of the game in that it kind of waffles on how it implements this - is Luke mentally 7 or 17? Depending on the circumstances it can flip-flop a bit) following someone who is basically been a paternal figure.

Jade "gets away with it" in that he is legitimately portrayed as a sociopath. A high-functioning one who is usually pointed in the right direction, but the game doesn't shy away from the fact that Jade is messed up. Guy, who is the closest person to understanding Luke's situation on account of having lived there with him, is the one person who realizes after-the-fact that his reaction to Luke in the aftermath of Akzeriuth was uncalled for and that Luke needs someone by his side.

By the time the others get all this information and context so much shit has gone down they never really get to revisit the matter of Akzeriuth.

And see, all that's realistic character behavior, yes

But as far as it means for the overarching narrative, and the point the game is trying to make, it's gross. And Tales of the Abyss is absolutely trying to make a point.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Starting to think you've got some personal investment in the scenario here that's clouding you judgement.

If I'm off base with that though process then my apologies.

Not really. I never went through a Luke type experience, and even as a teenager playing the game I thought it was very problematic and basically hated the plot.

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_stingers_ posted...

KP seems to think that Luke was basically a doll on puppet strings and that he had no agency to stop and think, well, maybe I shouldn't do this thing that I personally know nothing about

Luke has almost no agency in the beginning of the game. He's a a 6-year old child who was only ever treated well by one person, is kidnapped, and treated poorly by the party. The Akzeriuth incident was in fact one of the first times he tries to have agency, and it's doing something specifically to help people, but he's being manipulated by the only person he trusts in the world.

Luke didn't know everything about the plot thingy he was doing, but he also had no reason to believe that Van was lying to him.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Lmao that dude would absolutely be at LEAST partially responsible in that scenario, but I do admit that the anime melodrama is unwarranted

Yeah we're just going to have to completely disagree here. The tendency for society to assign blame simply out of a need to do so, when someone has no reasonable way to have realized what they were going to do would cause a tragedy, is something I hate.

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NBIceman posted...

And Luke would agree with it as well, no gaslighting needed.

Cool, and Luke is wrong, and the game is wrong

I don't have to agree with a game's lessons just because it wants me to, especially in a series with as poor a writing track record as Tales

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

No, it's closer to someone shooting someone because they were playing around with a gun their friend told them wasn't loaded.

Van specifically told Luke that it would help people. To Luke, it wasn't a loaded gun, it was a way to make the world better that he was specifically instructed to use.

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NFUN posted...

this is the same shitty logic that leads people to blame themselves for their friend getting hurt because they asked them to get a fucking gallon of milk from the store and they got hit by a car on the way back

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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xp1337 posted...

stuff

Saying 'it's not my fault' for stuff that was, in fact not your fault, is a very legitimate response to an intense emotional situation.

Let me portray an example. Lucas is putting on a play with other people. Lucas is a jerk, and very few people like him. Lucas' is given a prop gun by his play instructor Mr. Car, who he respects very much, and told to use it at a crucial scene. Lucas goes, sure! It'll make the play even better. I trust Mr. Car's judgement.

Then he uses it, and it turns out the prop gun is a real gun. Someone is shot and killed, and it wasn't an accident. Mr. Car gave that gun to Luke so that he would kill that person without knowing it. Now, the other actors are upset, and Luke is an easy target. So they dogpile on him, put the blame on him, and make him quit theatre. He then falls into a depression he almost never recovers from.

That seem fair to you?

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Just because something is real doesn't mean I have to roll with it. Luke gets abused by the other party members at his lowest point, then they get off scot-free for almost everything they did that was actually their fault. That is not enjoyable. If the game was trying to tell a message (which it is), it failed miserably.

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Leonhart4 posted...

It's crappy behavior, but it's also understandable and realistic behavior.

Yeah but it's not called out at all. That's the main issue I have with the game - the narrative gives certain people passes while vilifying others.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

He's both a victim and a perpetrator. It is not at all mutually exclusive.

Hard disagree. If you have no reason to realistically believe that an action you take would cause a tragedy, then it is not your fault. Anything else is victim blaming.

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Yeah and that has absolutely nothing to do with blaming him for a catastrophic event that wasn't his fault

Putting blame on someone just because you don't like them is, in fact, shitty behavior

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I mean...I always thought that scene was a little harsh but I don't disagree with the premise! Luke is being manipulated HARD at that point and while he's somewhat of a victim too, let's be real. Luke just did the equivalent of dropping a nuke on a city because he didn't know any better and handwaving that away by saying he isn't complicit would suck!

That's not even remotely equivalent. Luke was unaware of the specifics of how it worked, and was told by the person he trusts most in the world - the only person who's always stood by him, unconditionally - betrays him in a way he couldn't have possibly seen coming. He was in fact told that it would help the people there.

He was involved, but that doesn't make it his fault, and it's disingenuous to say otherwise despite how badly the game tries to push that notion. He was a victim, not a perpetrator.

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Because they are worse people than Luke, by far, but the narrative treats Luke much worse than him simply because his surface level personality is unpleasant. Oh wait, so are Jade's and Anise's, but for some reason they also get a pass for that.

The story is based on terrible people growing but while they grow, somewhat, they don't get abandoned by the party or have the people they were supposed to rely on lay the deaths of hundreds at their feet for something that was their fault.

The scenes where Luke goes crawling back to the party and starts apologizing for things that aren't his fault because he's terrified of being alone are disgusting. It's basically an abuse victim debasing himself because he has nowhere else to turn. Compare that to, say, Anise, who gets Ion killed through actions that are entirely her fault and gets forgiven immediately.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Who gets gaslit? Are you talking about how Asch gives up the role of being the "actual" Luke?

Luke was not remotely at fault for the Akzeriuth incident. He had every reason to trust Van over his other party members, and Jade even suspected something and did nothing about it. Despite that, he gets 100% from the blame for it and is quickly abandoned by almost everyone he knows.

Conversely, every other party member is a piece of shit (except Tear) and they never get called out on it. It's just Luke, just because he's a jerk early on and because the narrative is obsessed with. Natalia blackmails her way into the party and is incredibly self-centered, Guy joined Luke's family to kill him, Anise is a traitor who got Ion killed, and Jade is Jade. None of them ever receive repercussions for this or even get called out on it at all.

I honestly don't see how people interpret this any other way outside of just buying what the game is selling without considering that the game doesn't know what it's talking about.

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Disco Elysium, The House in Fata Morgana, and Planescape: Torment

If we're discounting games that are super text-heavy and light on gameplay, then it's Nier Automata

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Tales of the Abyss is one of the few stories that outright offended me. It tries to present gaslighting as character development and it's pretty gross.

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Zestiria especially blows because it turned off a lot of people from Tales and really hurt Berseria's numbers

That game did a good job at earning back respect, but it was definitely a DMC2 -> DMC3 situation

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ExThaNemesis posted...

also I'm sure there are objectively worse stories but I just hate the way that one makes people act. Because of the vitriol against it there is equally as much vitriol in defense of it and as a consequence anyone that actually wants to analyze the game just gets drowned out in all the nonsense.

Cursed game.

This isn't at all the fault of the game. It's got problems that are legit to point out, but the reception would have been much better if the plot wasn't leaked before the game came out and then gotten attached to by incels.

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An update. Patreon is definitely slowing down on non-Chapter release days, but release days are still very solid. One thing to note is that the number of people cancelling their subscription has increase by a good margin in the last week, which won't affect this month but will affect the following. This was expected, as Patreon charges people on the first of every month.

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Final Fantasy Tactics Advance isn't the worst, but it is my least-favorite.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

It is just INSANE that Javik was DLC back then. Kasumi and Zaeed contribute nothing at all to ME as a franchise and are just nice window dressing. Javik is CRITICAL.

Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer.

Probably the best line in the series.

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