Lurker > rwlh

Thanks for posting my info, NFUN.

Another thing to keep in mind with Janet is that she can not only summon any object, she can imbue them with properties, sort of like Maxwell from Scribblenauts. One would think, given her ability to navigate around space and time - and given that someone like Michael was capable of imbuing objects with properties greater than 100% - that Janet would presumably be able to do so too. Theoretically, if Janet knows how to defeat Hades from her knowledge of Earth, she could summon something to do it. (Like she could probably summon a weapon with holy properties strong enough to defeat Aku.) But this is all conjecture.

She's also very practical and wouldn't mind sacrificing the entire arena if it meant that she could defeat her opponent.

I left some info in the discussion topic about tonight's match, if somebody wouldn't mind posting that tonight. Thanks!

Dungeon - Geofront 4

I love both of these. Will likely vote for whatever wins here in tomorrow's finals.

Witch King, I guess.

-[Deoxyribose]-

Toon Link collects Paddington as a traveling companion and they have wonderful adventures together.

does spinach count as a holy item

Dungeon - Geofront 4

Aku.

Popeye/Aku should be a great match.

Isoleucine.

Looking over the rest of Low...is it wrong of me to give George Costanza a fighting chance against Battler? George, after all, is the undisputed master of twisting logic around to benefit himself.

Whether it's metaphorical compared to the "real world" or not, the Meta World exists as a real thing by itself. There are different layers of reality in Umineko. There's the real world, then there's the Meta World on top of that, then there are other higher levels on top of that. The Meta World is metaphorical to the real world, as what happens in the Meta World is symbolic of what happens in the real world. However, the characters and events in the Meta World still happen in the Meta World.

Does that make sense? That seems less coherent in this post than it did in my head.

It makes sense to me that this fight doesn't happen in a metaphorical sense, but instead takes place in the equivalent of the Meta World. That's why I (and I think some others in this topic) have tried to figure out how Gregor fits in. Does he have to play by the rules of the Meta World, or can he circumvent things and just bulldoze Battler in a fit of strength? I decided the latter wouldn't work because Battler has offensive feats that seem to be above Gregor here, even if Gregor doesn't play by the rules.

Shonen_Bat posted...

won't give up hope on Batman finding a way to beat him though

Batman totally beats Battler imo. He's smarter and more logical than Battler and can easily adapt to whatever logic tricks Battler throws at him. Batman would've figured out the mystery of Umineko very quickly.

Endeavour.

For physical feats, Battler is fast enough to punch Bernkastel in the face and kick her before she teleports hard enough that she vomits. Granted, she hasn't fought physically in ages - if ever - and Gregor is assuredly much tougher than her.

As the Golden Sorcerer, Battler is essentially above human limits because he exists on the Meta World. He can use the Golden Longsword to instantly wipe out a hundred goats, humanoid grunts that, when in sufficient numbers, can devour a universe. His movements are described as "surpass[ing] human understanding":
https://i.imgur.com/zFtY9MV.jpg

If we take the position that Gregor also exists on the Meta World and not just as a "piece" Battler can manipulate, then Gregor has to fight on Battler's terms. It's a funny image to imagine Battler making Gregor play a game of mystery-fantasy and Gregor just flipping the pieces over onto the floor and attempting to snap Battler's neck instead. I don't think that would work on Battler - his reflexes are too fast.

Also I'm wondering if Battler could just seal Gregor in a locked room until he's able to escape. (And I wonder if Gregor, if he's in the Meta World, could no-sell it and break through anyway.) But that's less likely than what I described above.

Battler.

My two favorite songs left. It's a shame one of them has to leave, but it's great that one of them gets to advance.

-[Deoxyribose]-

DeathChicken posted...

The fighters apparently have enough prep time to meet each other, according to the opening blurb. So he probably will have eaten before he gets there. And if she tried time travel shenanigans, as said, Popeye has shown he can seriously ignore that shit because Spinach

Popeye really should be in Broken tier but oh well

I don't think Popeye would pop spinach into his mouth before he sees what he's up against. He never seems to start any of the cartoons with it already in play; it's always a last-ditch effort to come back from behind.

Illyria seems like she takes it more often than not. If Popeye doesn't knock her out - which he'll be averse to doing because he'll see his opponent is a woman - she can jump back in time, see where he gets his strength, and either manipulate it (she can control plants, but failing that she can just teleport the can away) or eat the spinach herself (I don't know if that's within her personality or not though).

Honestly this just seems like a bad matchup for Popeye. Even if he can no-sell her teleportation, he can't stop her from teleporting his spinach after she goes back in time a few times to assess the fight. On top of that, he won't be fighting to kill because she's a woman.

Illyria.

Question: Are we considering a "ring out" a victory for the purposes of these matches? I would think a ring out with an easy way back would allow the match to continue, but a ring out where the character can't return easily seems like a victory for their opponent to me.

So if Illyria can teleport Popeye wherever she wants, and Popeye can't easily return to the battlefield, I'd count that as a win for Illyria.

These are the two ways I can picture this fight going down:
- Illyria tries basic manipulation on Popeye but Popeye no-sells it and incapacitates her. Popeye's attack power seems beyond what Illyria has tanked before, so even if Popeye is trying to not directly harm her, she might still become unable to fight.
- Alternately, Popeye is unable to incapacitate illyria, she continues to rewind time, and she eventually gets wise to the fact that she needs to just freaking get rid of this dude. Or maybe, upon repeatedly seeing the effects of the can in Popeye's pocket, she steals Popeye's spinach. Maybe she even uses it herself. Spinach has been shown to have ridiculous effects in the Popeye universe to others who eat it, including dogs.

Also, I don't think Popeye can do just anything. I think we should keep potential Popeye abilities to what he demonstrates in his canon.

Still unsure here.

The thing about the Sea Hag happens in this cartoon:
https://youtu.be/fC4YE_582FQ?t=121

Popeye doesn't strike her directly, but he still dispatches with her by grabbing her whip and tossing her into the sea. So we can probably assume he'd look for a way to win over Illyria that wouldn't involve directly striking her.

Here's a Popeye respect thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/9l5unr/respect_popeye_the_sailor_man_popeye/

Some Popeye feats from the thread:
- Turns a bull into a meat market with a punch:
https://gfycat.com/sizzlingwetindianspinyloach

- Punches Bluto around the earth:
https://gfycat.com/rapidoddballagama

- Blocks bullets with his bare hands, then spits them out of his mouth:
https://gfycat.com/abandonedenchantingelephantbeetle

- Recovers from disintegration:
https://gfycat.com/deliriousraggedfieldmouse
https://gfycat.com/knobbybackamericanblackvulture

Etc., etc., you can read the thread.

...however. This might be a very bad matchup for Popeye. Because...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Hag

"Because she is a woman, Popeye cannot physically attack her. His honor says that he would never hit a woman, even someone as evil as the Sea Hag. In such cases, it is Olive Oyl herself who steps in and does physical damage to her. One notable exception to this is in the 1960s cartoon, "Old Salt Tale" where Popeye grabs her whip and uses it to fling her into the sea."

Hmm.

9. Mamorukun Curse! - YO-KAI Disco (Hell's Entrance World)
vs.
13. Fire Emblem Fates - Desire Below (Flow)

My opinions on both of these songs have varied wildly all contest. I had to relisten multiple times to come to this conclusion, which I reserve the right to change before the end of the topic.

-

Vote:
YO-KAI Disco (Hell's Entrance World)

14. Taiko no Tatsujin 7 - Burning Force Medley
vs.
15. Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon - Second Dark Matter Battle

These songs both have very strong openings, but I'm less into the rest of them. SDMB has a higher high, but it lasts for less time than Burning Force Medley's high, and also its lows are lower for me. These songs are next to each other in my rankings, but it's an easy choice for me.

-

3. maimai MiLK - Credits
vs.
5. Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet - Dungeon - Geofront 4

Two great songs, would be happy if either wins!

-

Votes:
Burning Force Medley
Credits

NFUN posted...

ftr I take Chara over Sheldon

I don't know, how good is Sheldon with kids? He might just pick her up and carry her away. Then again, she does have a knife.

Kenshiro is a skilled martial artist who can punch people's pressure points so they explode.

Chara is a child with a knife.

Kenshiro.

Also, Death won't just sit around. The rules state all combatants eventually get the urge to fight. If Death doesn't want to kill Marisa, he can at least take her out, whereas I'm not seeing anything she can do to him.

Is Marisa actually able to just...discover immortality in this random arena with "an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains," etc.? I find that hard to believe.

Death doesn't have to kill her if he doesn't want to. He just needs to incapacitate her. Which, according to NFUN, he's done in the past.

Death.

6. Aurora Memoria - Classroom
vs.
4. 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim - -(Isoleucine)-

I...think I prefer Classroom today, but this is a tight match!

-

2. Deltarune - Rude Buster
vs.
7. Blue Reflection - TIGAR (All Phase Mix)

Little closer for me today than two days ago, but I still have a clear preference.

-

Votes:
Classroom
Rude Buster

11. Opoona - Partizans
vs.
8. Idola Phantasy Star Saga - Endeavour

Endeavour really really clicked for me on the relisten in a way I don't think it had before. The catchy chorus is actually my least favorite part - I definitely prefer the verses and the sparse beginning. I like Partizans too, though I have a clear preference.

-

12. Kirby Triple Deluxe - Moonstruck Blossom
vs.
16. Terraria Calamity - The Filthy Mind (Theme of the Hive Mind)

I don't love either of these. Bracket B was overall the weakest bracket for me. That said, I still voted for Moonstruck Blossom three times, and now I'm voting for it a fourth time. I even voted for Filthy Mind once! Ah, Bracket B.

-

Votes:
Endeavour
Moonstruck Blossom

Rankings out of 16!

2. Deltarune - Rude Buster
vs.
7. Blue Reflection - TIGAR (All Phase Mix)

God I could listen to Rude Buster on loop for hours. It's immaculate. The only way it could be better if it were replaced with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mSXnNLUzcM

TIGAR is no slouch either. At this point, very few things are "slouches" for me.

-

10. Phantasy Star Online 2 - GUERRANT-OFENZA-SUPRONT-UNNE
vs.
1. 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim - -[Deoxyribose]-

What a climb for Deoxyribose! It started off as a 5.5, barely able to crawl out of a weak four-pack. And here it is now, my favorite song left in the contest. If it goes up against Rude Buster next round, it'll be amazing (though I'll be disappointed it didn't happen in the finals!).

-

Votes:
Rude Buster
-[Deoxyribose]-

Really love this year's retirees. Some really interesting and compelling tracks. None of my super-duper high songs made it, but the rest of the crop is very strong overall. Ranking to come because I'm relistening to everything.

fantomas vs sheldon, who you got

Sounds about right.

Guile.

39. Mamorukun Curse! - YO-KAI Disco (Hell's Entrance World) [7]
vs.
19. Maiden & Spell - The Wyrm's Jewelbox [8.5]

What I probably had:
Birth of a Wish > The Wyrm's Jewelbox

Sometimes I think YO-KAI Disco is amazing and sometimes I can't even focus on it. Today was the former!

-

38. Fire Emblem Fates - Desire Below (Flow) [7]
vs.
27. Killer7 - Rave On [8]

What I probably had:
I honestly have no idea. Rave On > Epic Epileptic Apocalypse?

Man Rave On is great, I don't know what you all are on about. I can see why someone wouldn't like it, but I'll be happy if it retires. Desire Below is cool too though.

-

Votes:
YO-KAI Disco
Rave On

Sounds good to me.

Sera.

Would she actually do that though? Detonate a nuclear warhead? Is it in her personality to be so trigger happy? And does it count as a win if she kills herself along with her opponent?

Also, Fate servants can't be harmed by conventional means, right? How conventional is an explosive?

questions questions questions

Fate Grand Order wiki gives us:

"One Thousand and One Nights
Rank: EX
Type: Anti-King
Alf Layla wa-Layla.
Due its origin, it possesses a damage specialty towards the king-attribute.
Even if that is not the case strictly speaking, there are times when similar existences are deemed equivalent to a king for her.

This is a Reality Marble of the story she tells.
By telling a story with such an overwhelming presencesense of reality that even the world believes in it, said story is materialized.
It takes the shape of summoning the characters, tools and spirits from the One Thousand and One Nights. Since a proper, historical One Thousand and One Nights does not originally exists, even episodes that were later producedabsorbed - such as Aladdin and Ali Baba - can be employed, as they are useful for her survival as a Heroic Spirit. Whats important is not its accuracy. But whether the king found it interesting or not.
At last, the story (Noble Phantasm) would of course close like this.

---such was the tale."

and

"Storyteller: EX
A skill that denotes how skillfully one can tell tales and legends.
Something completely different from the art to write down stories on books, this is a story-conveyance ability specialized in improvisation, such as taking the mood and mental state of the audience into consideration to choose the appropriate way of reciting.
Probably something that a rakugoka Heroic Spirit would also have.

Counter-Hero: A
For her, this skill is restricted to Anti-King.
For that reason, she possesses A Rank on it.
In her case, it especially denotes the capacity to survive against existences related to a king; by grasping the kings temper, personality, abilities, principles, physical condition, etc, to employ all wiles possible, at the very least, she can conduct herself in a way that will not get her killed - no matter what kind of a whimsical king the opponent may be."

-

also promising

promising

VS Battles Wiki doesn't have anything on either of these two.

28. Atelier Rorona Plus: The Alchemist of Arland - Akeldama [7.5]
vs.
4. maimai MiLK - Credits [9]

-

12. Sword Art Online: Fatal Bullet - Dungeon - Geofront 4 [9]
vs.
7. Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon - Fire Island Volcano [9]

???

No clue on this match. Listened twice, still not sure who to vote for. Might relisten later. Excellent match, I really like both songs.

Very, very good day.

-

Votes:
Credits
???

Vote Change:
Second Dark Matter Battle to Pressure Cooker

Massive X
Second Dark Matter Battle

Estelle seems like she takes it then.

So we've got a fighter who uses a big stick incredibly well (does she do anything else? Any spells?), and a fighter who uses a cane incredibly well. Roman seems more cautious, while Estelle seems more like the type to dive in. If Roman's aura is in danger of running out, he'll probably keep his distance, but Estelle seems hotheaded enough to pursue him, and well-trained enough to follow the chase.

Leaning Estelle at the moment.

This topic has made me rewatch clips of Freakazoid. What a show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V89jS1ojDqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpsx4OZmY04

8. Aurora Memoria - Classroom [9]
vs.
54. Trails in the Sky SC - The Merciless Savior [5.5]

I love Classroom. I voted against it last round and it was a very hard decision, but I'm glad it won its match. I love basically everything about it; it's such a delight to listen to. The Merciless Savior has parts I like and parts I don't care about, and at over seven minutes it's kind of chore at times. Possibly the easiest match of the round for me.

-

13. 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim - -(Isoleucine)- [9]
vs.
51. Blue Reflection - DNF FW15C (ALL PHASE MIX) [6]

I woke up with both Isoleucine and Deoxyribose playing in my head. Good sign! DNF, like Merciless Savior, has standout parts and parts I'm less into. Another very easy match!

-

Votes:
Classroom
-(Isoleucine)-

As much as it's fun to argue for Freakazoid (in probably contest-breaking ways, so sorry about that), Bigby has more convincing arguments right now that take into account both characters' personalities. Specifically this argument:

Johnbobb posted...

alternate possibility

Big Bad Wolf starts chasing Freakazoid. Freakazoid runs away, and it cuts to one month later, where Freakazoid is still running but comically exhausted until he stops, looks at the camera, says something like "He HAS to be gone now right?" and then gets ripped apart by the wolf

And this argument:

Kamekguy posted...

The one thing keeping me from voting Freak is that Bigby's just really genre savvy because, well, he lives in a world of stories. He could prep for a fight and, if Freak doesn't win in that opening salvo, Bigby can basically go "oh. He's one of those, like a genie". Bigby was basically the fairy tale police and private eye for around 400 years. I can just as easily imagine him talking it out and saying:

"Hey Freakazoid, there's a man in a cute penguin suit giving out snowcones, wanna go?"

And then they go get snowcones and Bigby just talks to him for a while, learns that Freakazoid can un-transform, asks him to show him, and snaps the unpowered Dexter Douglas's neck. And then Freakazoid's ghost beats himself up for a while.

Freakazoid isn't as inherently murderous as Ipkiss, Bugs, or Popeye. If this essentially goes more than a handful of minutes, and with Bigby's healing factor that's a very strong possibility, I don't see a reality where Freakazoid wins that battle of wits.

So yeah. Bigby probably takes it. There's lots of different ways this fight can go, but Bigby likely has a counter for a lot of them, and Freakazoid wouldn't go for the kill right away.

Also relevant:
https://gfycat.com/tastyaltruisticaustrianpinscher

Kamekguy posted...

As I recall, Fables gain power based on the belief in them. As such... I kind of wonder if Freakazoid making constant references to Bigby and being just the embodiment of everyone's collective knowledge on the internet wouldn't make Bigby's healing factor just become utterly ridiculous.

This is actually kind of interesting. Bigby's damage output might not be enough to put Freakazoid down, but I wonder if Freakazoid can put Bigby away either with this strong healing factor? It's also worth noting that Bigby has ridiculous stamina, like apparently he was able to run and fight for two months straight without stopping.

Here's a Freakazoid durability feat: he gets repeatedly slammed into the ground hard enough to break concrete, and is fine a few seconds later:
https://gfycat.com/ashamedscalyjenny

However, here's another instance where his durability isn't as good: he gets thrown through a wall and is stunned for a while:
https://gfycat.com/infamoustamebarb

You can probably chalk these discrepancies up to rule of funny.

Interestingly, Freakazoid seems to have a similar power to Bigby: he gets stronger when the audience cheers for him.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RTvideos/comments/edn01k/freakazoid_audience_power/

He breaks the fourth wall in a number of ways. He might even be able to talk to the creator of Fables, or Bigby's voice actor. He's done it with his own show. Maybe he could talk to NFUN and get put in a better match, or even have NFUN rig it for him! (I am seriously not joking. He does stuff like this all the time.)

More, if you're curious:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/eeo3gj/respect_freakazoid_freakazoid/

somewhat unrelated but i wanted to post it anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6R4B0otA6w

Freakazoid can hear a monk raking leaves from halfway around the world, run there in seconds, and tell him to knock it off. I'm not sure if he ever demonstrates this level of speed again, but he certainly could if it were funny. He's one of those characters.