Lurker > Teenman

CyricZ posted...

To back up the point you're making.

Anyway, I think an assumption that all of society has suddenly become completely unforgiving is an exaggeration. Forgiveness is still a thing that a lot of people are capable of. Furthermore, the less known you are, the easier it will be to find new opportunities in an environment that hasn't heard of you or pre-judged you.

If anything, there are some of us who forgive too easily simply so we can go about our lives, but that's a different argument.

Sorry, but I wont dive into a cesspool of hateful people to backup a point. I wouldnt even know where to begin searching and dont want to find out.

I believe society to be cruel based on life experience and how Ive been treated for my own differences. It affects my opinion, which is probably why we differ. Im not trying to be rude or difficult and apologize if you are taking it that way.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

CyricZ posted...

Then you're going to have to give some examples at least to prove that someone at that level who was fired for being racist was never able to find a job again.

I think thats going to involving diving into places on the net I would rather not go. Why would I intentionally go look for people like that?

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

CyricZ posted...

Is there any evidence that these people are not being allowed to grow and find a new way to contribute to society after their initial punishment?

Remember that there are a lot of ways to contribute that don't make the person public, obvious, powerful, and influential. Take your old pal Cyric, here. Most of you guys don't even know what I do, yet I do it and contribute to society.

The punishment may be that powerful and influential people who have been brought down don't get to be that again, and I ask you, is that too harsh?

No, its not. But it would be if a minimum wage worker or middle class worker couldnt find a job. I was never referring to officials, just your average person. Those are the people who will turn to crime when they have no where to go.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

CyricZ posted...

And this sounds like an argument that adults should be given up on because they'll probably never change.

We can't make these people go back to their youth and relearn their formative years. Of course doing better with the next generation is key, but we still have to reconcile with the matter of dealing with this generation. If you think "my solution" isn't good, then by all means come up with a better one.

And I use quotes because it isn't my solution. It's a societal solution. It's the one in place now, and I sure as hell didn't come up with it.

Just pointing out flaws and giving my opinion, no need to get angry. You nor I are in a position that we could make changes. Relax a bit, neither of our opinions are invalid. Just different solutions to a the same problem.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

CyricZ posted...

This sounds like an argument stating that clearly they're not being punished severely enough.

Its up to interpretation and I guess it could be read that way. Just trying to get across your current solution doesnt work and society needs to come up with a better solution. Education is key, starting with people as children is probably your best bet.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

Consciousness posted...

Imagine if people found out the real identities of some of the users here.

They would try to destroy people that they dont even know like sociopaths. Humans are awful.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

CyricZ posted...

Every job I've been involved with for the past twenty years has had strict education with regards to racism, sexism, and many other forms of discrimination.

Employers absolutely set the standard of what must be followed to continue working for them. Those who do not follow that standard do so willfully, usually confident that they won't be disciplined.

So I guess you could say yeah, it isn't my job. It's the employer's job. Joe Public off the street is not the one responsible for banging on a business' window and yelling "HEY! JUST WANTED TO CALMLY TALK TO YOU FOR A BIT ABOUT THE RACIST THING YOU DO SO YOU'LL BE BETTER!" You report that shit to the supervisor, and they decide where to take it.

Also there is an embarrassing amount of evidence that shows that racists don't get less racist through gentle conversation. They change via real consequence. Joe Public is not someone to give that real consequence, but an employer is.

if you say so. Your solution doesnt work, otherwise we wont see firings basically everyday on the news and social media. The racists already understand the possible consequences but keep doing as they always have anyway.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

shockthemonkey posted...

Ok? Is that supposed to be an employer or coworkerss responsibility?

Bro, the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah if they get fired they might join the KKK! Like if anyone was thinking about that, they fucking deserve to be fired and unemployed and never hold any sort of power anywhere ever. This is the stupidest fucking argument.

And anyone who is punished for being racist and then doubles down on being more racist is a fucking moron. Youre proving my point.

Youre also proving his. If these people cant be employed, they dont have much of an option other than crime or organizations lead by hate groups. Youre to clear cut. Lets just start giving everyone the max sentence for everything and see how well it works out.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

wackyteen posted...

I've taken this route before and the general response you get is "iT iSn'T mY jOb To EduCaTe RaCiStS oR tO bE tHe BiGgEr MaN"

Gotcha. I think the vast majority, dont understand that hard-cut solutions dont work and never have. They dont actually solve the problem. Its like when you were a kid and cleaning up your mess was throwing it all in the closet or hiding it under your bed.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

CyricZ posted...

I disagree. The definition of racism hasn't changed all that significantly. What has changed is society's ability to see it, perceive it, and react to it. Not to mention the will to do the same.

In the past, employers simply didn't have the will to fire people over racist things they saw within their company, unless it was overt, public, and/or actually directly harmed someone. They could totally have done so if they wanted to, but it wasn't something that typically impacted business unless it fell under those categories.

Now they do, and it largely relies on society being more aware of it.

I refuse to let assholes be assholes under the fear that they'll become worse. That is essentially negotiating with terrorists.

Dont negotiate, educate. Racism should be treated the same as sexual harassment to an extent. Have them take a course and give them a chance. If they dont learn then fire them.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

The problem with firing people over racism is the definition keeps changing. Firing someone 10 years ago for racism would have been fine. Now, Im not so sure. People are labeled racists and bigots for having different views. At this point, we are just creating angry people that feel ostracized. This will just cause more racism and eventually someone or multiple someones are going to start shooting up workplaces.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

Kildread posted...

I'm really glad this argument is a US thing compared to life up here.

It's like watching 2 religious groups going to bat with tangential evidence about which of their deities is the best.

Our political parties basically are religious groups at this point. It was bound to happen when you only have two major parties and when the majority of people cant think for themselves. Not sure why its so hard to understand that neither party has the peoples best interest at heart.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

Whats stopping someone from getting infected at a protest and then going to a bar or restaurant and infecting others? If you are willing to go to a large gathering, you are probably going to more than one or engaging in other activities that put you and others at risk of infection.


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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

SolidShadow3 posted...

To break it down to Apple and oranges; If you have:

70 White people
30 black people

Now, If I kill 15 black people, and 20 white people why is your argument "more whites died" and not understanding that HALF THE BACK PEOPLE DIED.

you wanna see the larger number? The 50% is larger than your "20 dead whites".

Are we really comparing lives lost by percentages of the population now? Are people just statistics to you? Thats pretty disgusting. In your scenario 35 people were killed, their race doesn't matter.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

Neither. Capitalism or Socialism can be bad depending on the ruling party and other factors.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

WallStreetWolf posted...

You are so cool, spending 30 minutes of your day to whip up pictures making fun of me for being open-minded

Theres a difference between open minded and stupid.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

Dont feel bad for others lack of planning or preparedness. Ive been dirt broke, lower middle class and upper middle class in my lifetime. One thing I have learned from all 3 situations is to never live above your means and save what you can.

Covid-19 has shown that a lot of people just dont plan understand this. Dont get two $600 a month car loans and $1500 house loan if you cant afford it. Dont spend 90% of your monthly income on bills. Purchase within your means, we arent all movie stars.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)

Your friend is an idiot. This girl has no problem hiding things from him. This wont be a successful relationship.

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"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do...." (Stephen F. Roberts)