Lurker > IfGodCouldDie

It's the solution of the desperate and unheard

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

DaveRose316 posted...

So what were all these business owners supposed to do to meet your requirements of doing enough? What exactly have you done for the cause?

It's not about my requirements for what is enough. It's about Americans doing what they need to do to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

I have lived in and supported a country not founded on systematic racism and abuse of it's own citizens. There isn't much I can do for Americans because of their misguided sense of justice towards drugs, I am not allowed to enter the country.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Parappa09 posted...

Lmao

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FaultyGourry posted...

Get off the internet and rethink your life.

Why because I am willing to accept responsibility for my actions or lack their of and the consequences that follow the?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

Not outloud, you just advocate for and think people deserve this.

Never said I believe people deserve this either. What I am saying is this is the result of Americans being complacent towards their fellow Americans being stepped on and abused by the police and government for decades and decades. If every single one of the business owners and their families had stepped up and decried the violence and abuse their community members faced on a daily basis things would have changed peacefully instead they sat back and did nothing to help each other now they are facing the consequences of their own inaction. Does it suck, yes. Is it right, not particularly. Is it the final straw to break the camel's back, obviously it is.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

"If you don't have compassion for others you don't deserve compassion for yourself or from anyone else."
If you don't have compassion for innocent bystanders having their lives and livelihoods ruined (most of which would be POC considering where these riots take place fyi) then you don't compassion in return. Nor will you get any from anyone outside of your extremely limited ideology. If you want everything and everyone to burn because 'they didn't do enough' then you're the one with a shitty world view.

I never said I wanted any of this.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

That's a fine finish on her cupboards.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

No. I live in a country that doesn't have the same level of systematic abuse from government officials and police.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

tehzeldafanboy posted...

Lol why'd you bring it up then by implying men will be more reckless if they don't have to pay up? Can you answer the question of why this logic doesn't apply to women?

"He already has" yet he seems unable to rearticulate his argument and just defaults to one liners that dont actually address what you have said. He isn't interested in having a real discussion.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

That fact that you don't see the irony in your statement is beyond me.

I dont see how. I am very compassionate towards the victims of police brutality, I am less compassionate towards the "innocent" civilians that sat around for decades watching this and letting it happen or even encouraging it through shitty world views.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

I am very intrigued by this trailer and I can't wait to see this movie but I would not risk it for any movie

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

And if the riots weren't already for something you personally believed in, supported or had any real thoughts about? What then?

Then I would likely be a shitty person and deserve what ever comes my way. If you don't have compassion for others you don't deserve compassion for yourself or from anyone else.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Got ya.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

What level are each of the characters set to?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

In context obviously.

I obviously would be upset, but I am on the side of the protesters/rioters because the way americans allow themselves to be treated by their police and government baffles me. If my house was burnt down I would be given an insurance payout that would cover the loss of all my property. Losing the irreplaceable things like photo albums and objects with sentimental value would suck, but they are still not more important to me than living in a society where everyone is treated with the respect they deserve and a feeling of safety that should come with knowing the police are there to serve and protect you.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

If someone burns down your home or place of work and then blames you for it, are you likely to listen to their message or tell them to fuck off?

Are we talking about in the context of this situation or someone randomly doing it for no apparent reason?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

You're calling innocent people 'collateral damage' and blaming what happens to them on complacency. Rethink that or it's going to bite you in the ass.

Can you explain why you feel that way?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

P4wn4g3 posted...

I just think things should be more organized. I believe in people fighting for their rights, but that's a war and a war requires structure and strategy which are lacking in these protests.

When the enemy your fighting has spent decades and decades doing everything they can to divide and conquer it makes it a lot more difficult to organize and strategize. And when you can't organize and strategize effectively and these things still keep happening eventually you reach a boiling point and things will explode.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

FaultyGourry posted...

You really do not want to make this an 'us vs everyone' thing.

What?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

P4wn4g3 posted...

Sure, but it's not like we are talking about people accidentally burned to death inside the police building. We are talking about misdirected rage. Things went from "fuck the police" to "fuck everyone" real fast.

You're right and if more people had said fuck the police sooner things likely wouldn't have gotten this far.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

EndOfZangoose posted...

not if the owners lot everything. Im all for justice for what happened, but innocents shouldnt have to pay the price. Its moronic that you think this is ok.

Innocents are a part of the reason why things have gotten so bad. If you see this kind of police brutality and do nothing to change it eventually things get to this point and you become collateral damage. That same collateral damage would have been prevented if everyone stood up for the first person that had excessive force used on them. You can't sit back and do nothing and expect everything to turn out all fine and dandy.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

P4wn4g3 posted...

Okey.....
Doesn't seem like a well thought out sentiment though, sorry

Why not? That's what insurance is for anyway.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

As long as I am out of work I would be willing to participate in a dnd group no matter the time.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

ScazarMeltex posted...

It's so fucking creepy when male family members try to claim ownership over their female family members sexuality.

Its fucking creepy when anyone tries to claim ownership over anyone for any reason.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

Apparently if the decision from their perspective is 'Abort. You'll never see me again either way' they don't seem to.

Is that the stance of every man though? I personally don't remember ever giving my wife that ultimatum.

Unfortunately life isn't always ideal. Or fair.

There is no fair and ideal scenario for unwanted pregnancies.

You're right, life isn't always fair which is why as a society we should do everything in our power to make it as fair as possible by giving everyone as close to the same rights as possible. Women have the right to decide if they want a baby, men can be given that same right by choice of sticking around and paying child support.

No. But I don't think abusive fathers are a defense to avoid child support.

Who said they were?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

thebatz posted...

nah twitter should let him keep posting.
let him continue to immortalize his stupity and be a cautionary tale for the future.

reminds me of the time when someone said something so offensive to the mentally challenged regarding the special olympics and arnold schwarzenegger did this

God damn that is glorious.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

You're really overlooking the guilt side of things that women have to live with for the rest of their life for both of these decisions. You don't know what it's like to be pregnant or give birth. You and I will never know.

You honestly think men dont have feelings in regards to their off spring?
Darmik posted...

Except you are.

In your ideal scenario it doesn't matter what the woman does because the man doesn't have any responsibility. Taking an abortion is a responsibility. Organising an adoption is a responsibility. Not paying for your own child regardless of what she does isn't a responsibility at all.

No. My ideal scenario is a world where every child is born to a family that loves them for who they are and supports them emotionally, intellectually and financially to the best of their abilities. My ideal scenario does not include children being born in to poverty or a broken home because a woman was guilted in to keeping her baby because of religion even though she knew her only support would come in the form of a pathetic cheque because the guy that go her pregnant wasn't just a deadbeat but a vindictive asshole that refuses to make something of himself just so he wouldn't have to pay as much in child support.

Do you think it was fun for me growing up in a home with no father and spending more time in foster care than with my actual mother? Knowing that I had a sister out there that I was likely never to meet? It's not a life I would wish on anyone and I've seen the other side of it when the man is forced to pay child support so he takes his kid anyway. My brother was beaten relentlessly by his father because he was bitter about having to pay child support, but because he already had to pay child support he wasn't going to do it for free.

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TheOtherMike posted...

Yes I do. I just told you what it was. Fucking hell, keep up.

Skim the topic, look for my username. I'm not doing the extra leg work for you.

Ok well you have yourself a good night. I am starting to believe you are making bad faith arguments and I'm not interested in that.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

You seem to be implying it is their fault if they get pregnant and they're being less cautious because the Dad needs to pay child support.

Let me put it like this, if a woman does not want to get pregnant and she does, it is her fault for not taking the necessary precautions to prevent it. Just like if a man does not want to get a woman pregnant and he does, it is his fault for not taking the necessary precautions. Now if by chance a pregnancy still happens despite both parties taking all neccessary precautions, because it can happen, and the woman wants to have the baby for whatever reason it is her right. The man should not have to support it if he doesn't want to have a child. If the mother decides that she doesn't want to have the baby but the man does he is straight up out of fucking luck because again that is her right.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

There's a consequence for both parties right now if they aren't careful.

You're arguing there should be only a consequence for one. Why would it be seen as the responsibility of both if one party doesn't need to take any responsibility?

What? Their are either consequences for one or both right now depending on the decision made by one. If the woman decides to keep it, their are consequences for both, unless they decide to give it up for adoption then she just deals with the consequence being the pregnancy(which would have been 100% her choice.) If the woman decides to abort it there is only the consequence for the woman having the abortion, again 100% her choice. So no I am not arguing that there should be a consequence for one, I am arguing that the same right to have a child should be afforded to both parties.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Are the parties equally responsible, or does it "not matter" if men are careless? Stop contradicting yourself.

I haven't contradicted myself though. I agree that both parties are responsible for having safe sex, so that means if the guy is being irresponsible the woman has to pick up the slack in ensuring their sex is safe, just like if the woman is being irresponsible the man has to pick up the slack, otherwise they are faced with a difficult situation. If both are irresponsible than they should both still be allowed to choose what they would like to do.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Not causing unintended pregnancies.

Oh so you dont actually have any experience in this whole ball park of life. That's good to know.
TheOtherMike posted...

Yes I have. Try reading my posts.

Please quote or give me the post numbers where you explain you reasonings and stances, I may have missed them and would very much be willing to read over them again.
TheOtherMike posted...

Did I say that? Please quote it.

I just don't understand how these situations would skyrocket unless women became more careless in light of the new rules, you'd actually think that maybe they might be even more cautious knowing that if they allow themselves to be impregnated there is a real possibility that they might have to shoulder the responsibility of their own choice.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

Men certainly would.

But making sure that sex is safe is the responsibility of both parties. That was something we agreed on earlier, wasn't it? So it doesn't matter of men decide they want to be more careless. It is a womans body after all shouldn't she actually carry most of the responsibility of making sure a baby doesn't end up inside her?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Yes it does. Like, it's an obvious consequence of telling men they can opt out of child support.

So you believe women would just become more careless if men knew they didn't have to pay child support?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Your belief is wrong.

Oh I'm sorry what life experience do you bring to the table on this subject then? I shared mine after your incredibly rude and presumptuous post, now I'm not the type to act like that towards another so I'll allow you to share why you believe your right on this subject. Especially because you haven't actually provided any reasoning for any of your stances or beliefs.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

guarantees an increase in unwanted pregnancies and single mothers

No it fucking doesn't. People aren't just going to go around to make unwanted pregnancies and guys now don't just stay with the mom just because they would have to make CS payments and even if they do it's more tha likely not an ideal relationship to raise a kid in anyway.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

It is when the choice is inextricably linked to biology.

The societal construct of child support is objectively the best available option to ensure a fair outcome for the only party that had no choice - the child.

Full stop, if this was so important to you you'd get a vasectomy. If you aren't willing to do that then you're just bitching about the unavoidable disparity that arises from only one sex being able to carry the fetus. Take some responsibility for yourself ffs.

Excuse me?! I have two wonderful children and a wife I love very much. When my wife(gf at the time) told me she was pregnant I was extremely fucking supportive and told her that no matter what she did I would be there for her and the child if she so chose to keep it. She did amd I worked my fucking ass off to get into a career that I loved and knew I could support a family on. I did that by fucking choice not because I was legally obligated to pay child support. I did that because I grew up without a father. A man that abandoned my mother as soon as he found out she was fucking pregnant. I grew up with a half brother because my mom made the choice to sleep with another deadbeat piece of shit. And I have a half sister that was given up for adoption because my mom slept with her another deadbeat piece of shit. Believe me I know all about the differences between a child having a loving father and a child growing up without anything. Just because I don't agree with a decisions doesn't not mean I don't believe people should have the right to make it. Any man that that abandons his child, even if he pays child support is a deadbeat piece of shit in my eyes, that doesn't mean I don't believe they deserve the right to make it.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Also, in post 168 you said you were not arguing for a reality where men have no liability, even feigning outrage at Darmik for suggesting you were. Now you're asking me why that isn't a stupid idea. Might want to get your argument straight before you contradict yourself again.

Having what I am saying twisted in to a stance that supports rapists and liars is not the same as saying men should have no liability. Which isn't even the argument I am making. You act as if men being given this choice would suddenly cause every man to flee their children and that every single future born child would be fatherless.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Yes it does.

Yes we are.

I already did.

What a lame response, can't even actually address the entirety of my post so you just cherry pick things that allow you to make responses that are not in anyway productive to the conversation being had.

Giving people the right to choose what they want to do with their lives and how they address the situations that arise is not entirely dependent on biology. Sure a physical abortion is, but that's not what is specifically being addressed in this subject. What is being addressed is whether or not a societal construct that we have created is entirely fair to the party that has no choice in the matter. As it stands it is not. The woman is given her right to choose because the fetus grows in her body, which is 100% fair and any human being that isnt a POS would agree. Now giving men that same right to choose whether or not they want a child does not in anyway detract from women's same right to choose. She still has her right to her body, men are just given an equilateral life choice in regards to the same subject.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Everything. No one designed how organisms reproduce. Nature doesn't care about the disparity between the male and female of species. Men don't get a say in whether a woman aborts or not because the circumstances of biology simply don't allow him to. It sucks, but there's nothing that can be done about that.

That still has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We are not talking about biology, we are talking about choices and who has the rights to make what choices and who should be held responsible for the choices they make.

So you are saying you want men to have no liability whatsoever. This is an incredibly stupid mentality.

Explain to me why.

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Darmik posted...

Either you're being 'fair' to two people or one. You can't pick both.

By giving both the man and the woman a choice is how you are fair to both of them.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Biology is unfair.

What does that have to do with what we are taking about?
TheOtherMike posted...

It absolutely and indisputably is the reality you're arguing for, whether you acknowledge it or not. If men could opt out of child support the reality is that there is no liability for fathers of unwanted pregnancies. None.

And in that regard women are still free to choose whether or not they want to have a baby and try to raise it on their own, give it up for adoption, or abort it. Their life is only negatively affected if they so choose it to be. If they decide to abort or give it up for adoption they get to rid themselves of that same liability.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

Yes. That's how it goes.

So what's the point of the discussions than?
Darmik posted...

Both parties are responsible. You are arguing that one doesn't need to be. Not every woman is willing to have an abortion or give a baby up for adoption.

I'm not arguing anyone doesn't need to be, I'm arguing that when one party has no right to make a decision they should at least be afforded the right to opt out of the consequences of that decision.

Darmik posted...

The point is those scenarios are the consequence of pursuing a world where fathers have no responsibility for their unwanted children. It frees men from having to care about getting women pregnant because they will not be liable regardless of what the woman chooses to do.

Those are scenarios that already exist in a world where we already force men to pay child support and there is no reason to think that these kinds of things would skyrocket just because men are given the right to choose whether or not they suffer the consequences of someone else's choice.
Darmik posted...

Giving some money to support a woman and his child is not all of the responsibility falling on them. Far from it.

Women are the only ones who get to make that choice because the child grows inside them.

Do you consider a woman to be irresponsible if she decides to get an abortion?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

Nope. Fathers can prevent unwanted pregnancies too. It's up to both parties to prevent one.

I have literally said this multiple times in this topic already.
Darmik posted...

Once one happens it's up to the Mother if she wants to have an abortion or not.

If she decides that she's keeping it it's up to the Mother and Father to decide how they're going to each support the baby.

Except that if she decides to keep it the father actually does not have any choices, unless he decides he wants to be a father.

Darmik posted...

You're arguing that fathers have absolutely no liability for unwanted pregnancies they're responsible for.

Why are you acting like they are the only ones that should be responsible for it? The mother is the one that gets to make the decision, so she should be the one that takes on the responsibility. If she knows the guy is going to stick around and be a father, great. If she knows that he won't, it's probably best to not have the baby or give it up for adoption.
Darmik posted...

Doesn't matter if they slipped off a condom during intercourse on purpose

This would be fucking rape, so I think the mother fucker should serve hard jail time in that scenario.

Darmik posted...

or simply lied about their intentions of being a father before he found out she was pregnant. Who cares? It's not their problem.

This is a scenario where they both obviously consented to unprotected sex with intentions to have a kid, if the guy up and bails on her after that she should do everything she can to take him for everything he is worth, not the same as an accidental or unwanted pregnancy.

Darmik posted...

That's the reality of what you're arguing for.

It's absolutely not the reality I am arguing for and I don't appreciate you trying to twist what I have said to paint me in some negative light. I am fully open to having discussions with people dispite whether or not we will agree but I do not enjoy having conversations with others if you are going to attempt to paint me in a way in which I condone raping or lying to anyone.

Darmik posted...

Why would men bother to be responsible when there's no consequences or responsibility if a pregnancy happens?

Why does all the responsibility have to fall on men when women are the only ones that get to make a choice?

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Darmik posted...

And it also the father who is forcing that on the child if he can help and chooses not to.

So they are both at fault for something that could have been prevented by a choice only the mother can make. In that case let her deal with the consequences of her choice.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Definitely 2

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

TheOtherMike posted...

Forcing the child to live in poverty because you want to be a deadbeat is more unfair.

To be fair, it is the mother forcing that upon the child if she exercises her right to choose to keep the child and cannot financially support it without help.

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

Og Gameboy, NES, Wii U

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504

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Mind post. XBL:Cyanide Sucker PSN:IfGodCouldDie IGN:SuperPattyCakes FC: SW-1615-6159-5504