Lurker > Doctor Foxx

I'm gonna go home and eat a can of beans about this

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500

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LinkPizza posted...

It does suck that were using a lot more energy. But thats what happens. Also, its more than the taste preference of one person...

If you want to help the environment (and the planet) please don't ignore a critical aspect of the solution



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LinkPizza posted...

And not everybody wants to eat only the plants directly. So, I guess well lose a little energy. Well, it happens, I guess. I figured we could feed them something else. But, eh...

You're losing more than a little. It takes many times more energy to get animals to slaughter. It's throwing away energy and killing the environment.

How much value does taste preference of one person have over the cost of everything else?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/beef-uses-ten-times-more-resources-poultry-dairy-eggs-pork-180952103/

https://www.wired.com/story/alt-meat-trounces-animal-meats-massive-inefficiencies/

The team calculated that beef requires 28 times more land, six times more fertilizer and 11 times more water compared to those other food sources. That adds up to about five times more greenhouse gas emissions.

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LinkPizza posted...

Soybeans seem important. So, maybe feed animals less soybeans, we can still have soybeans for all the other things we use it for, and still have the oil, I guess. And with animals eating less soybeans, we can grow less. Though, thats only a small part of anything. But that would probably help some...

They need to eat something. What else are you going to feed them? Not possible to graze them all.

It's basic science, the dang laws of thermodynamics. You are losing energy feeding animals that you eat instead of just eating plants directly

Doesn't matter what you grow to feed them. That will not change.

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LinkPizza posted...

The only new thing this article said was that vegans should not eat as much soy and apparently share some of the blame

Sure anyone with a mouth is to blame

Consider over 90% of soy is not consumed by humans, the vast majority is fed to livestock, and by far most soy (and any other food) consumption by humans comes from people that also eat meat. If the meat eaters ate soy instead of feeding it to animals that alone would drastically reduce the amount of soy that needs to be grown to feed the planet

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/where_do_all_these_soybeans_go

This is not a time to blame vegans lmao

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https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/amazon-forest-fire-brazil-beef-meat-vegan-vegetarian-brazil-a9076236.html

Nade Duck posted...

veganism would be so much more appealing if vegans weren't so depressing.

The food is still good. I think it takes certain types to commit to be vegan at this point and it requires acknowledgement of some depressing realities

Still good for everyone to consider going plant based even if they don't want to be vegan

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Revelation34 posted...

What people are the Brazilians killing?

The many uncontacted Indigenous tribes of the Amazon. Courts recently ruled they have a right to their lands. The fires are concentrated around protected tribal lands. People are being burned out of their lands to clear the forest... for beef.

It's fucked up. Humans are being killed and their homes and lands are forever destroyed
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/31/tribes-brazil-genocide-jair-bolsonaro

https://earther.gizmodo.com/the-amazon-forest-fires-are-a-form-of-genocide-1837507793

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LinkPizza posted...

Im not making excuses. I already said Im not becoming vegan because I dont want to. But either way, getting everyone on board is impossible without taking away peoples freedom and making meat illegal. At which point, people wont care about anything.

As for saving the rainforest, start with Honk Kong, China, and Egypt first. If you can get three biggest to stop taking from Brazil or eating meat, that would actually help. All you have to do to stop the rain forest from burning away is to stop beef exports from Brazil. Not to stop eating meat completely...

I didn't ask why you think you can't be vegan but thanks for bringing it up yet again

The US relies on the Amazon rainforest being clear cut to grow cattle feed. That soy they burn the Amazon to grow is imported and used to fatten up livestock. Whether or not you buy Brazilian beef, the beef and other meat you eat is fed care of rainforest destruction. When those lands fail to yield (because they're not suitable for crops) it's turned into grazing land and it's forest that will never be recovered.

Even if your beef is American it's still causing destruction that you should not ignore

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LinkPizza posted...

All Im saying is unless you get everyone on board at once, which wont happen, it wont do much. We have to think of solutions that actually will work.

Get the fuck on board and stop making excuses

There's lots of us here waiting for you

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LinkPizza posted...

I dont think eating less meat is the only solution.

It is a necessary part of the solution whether people like it or not

The destruction of the Amazon is driven by beef

LinkPizza posted...

And even if some people (or even a good amount) slows down or stops eating meat, its not like the meat industry will stop overnight. It would probably take over a year before they even notice that meat isnt as profitable. Meaning this will still be going on.

Just because change takes time doesn't mean you should ignore what needs to be done. The fact that it takes a while means you should be all the more driven to act NOW. Saying that's just the way it is and doing nothing is condoning and directly financially supporting the destruction of this planet

LinkPizza posted...

The best solution is to probably just banned Brazilian beef until they figure out a solution and let people enjoy their meat from other places...

Many countries are looking to do that, and they should

But the demand must be reduced. Drastically. Globally. Things as they are can not be sustained.

LinkPizza posted...

Especially since it looks like the US only gets about 2% of that Brazilian Beef...

The US is not the major consumer of Brazilian beef, but the US is supporting Brazil's genocidal actions

The US does import soy from the Amazon to feed its cattle. Even if you're not eating Brazilian beef, the beef you eat is fed on the destruction of the Amazon rainforest

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Revelation34 posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/23/americas/brazil-beef-amazon-rainforest-fire-intl/index.html Post a real news site please.

Oh ok cool so tl;dr for both is beef is bad news

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https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/bjwzk4/feeling-sad-about-the-amazon-fires-stop-eating-meat


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deoxxys posted...

I would always tell my friend I envied her for all the suitors she would get but she hated it because she wanted someone that actually cared about her

That's what most people want in the end. Abundant superficial suitors is not fun, it's a hassle you're dealing with to find someone decent in a sea of desperation.

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deoxxys posted...

Thats all I am really trying to say here.

No I am not considering possible consequences.

Consequences are part of the reality of actually having sex and you can't really ignore them or how they drive behavior

Women can have sex more easily which is driven by suitors not caring about consequences

If those people were equally as reserved, hey, what a place you'd be in!

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Yes it's easy to get sex if you have no standards both in terms of partner and personal safety

If you're actually trying to be safe and reasonable then no, you have to worry about the people you may be sleeping with. Women often have more worries than men in this area, the concerns are quite different and with more serious consequence

If you want to be really simple you can say yes women can get sex more easily

I'd counter and say men are far more willing and able to have sex without thinking about consequences

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It's worth noting that an indigenous tribe in Ecuador won a lawsuit against oil companies, preventing the companies from extracting resources. The courts protected the lands, and those resource hungry criminals don't give a fuck about the environment.

That has also had very little coverage. Different part of the Amazon. It's a precedent

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OhhhJa posted...

It's almost like if trump flew his private plane to Epstein diddle island there would be some kind of record of it or someone wouldve taken note. Weird. I guess it had active camo or something

It's almost like Epstein had his flight records examined because Epstein was the one investigated

Trump did fly on that plane. Jen posted a great link about how connected he is to it. The reason he didn't continue to fly with Epstein is likely that he has his own private jet. Clinton didn't have that option.

I'd be curious about the flight logs for N443PR as well, and they likely should be investigated, but that's not Epstein's plane

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FrndNhbrHdCEman posted...

Hasn't this been going on for weeks?

Yes... and it has not been widely covered

After the day of darkness things started coming out a bit more

And it's accelerating. More new fires being lit intentionally. It's estimated one new fire is lit per minute

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https://twitter.com/sunrisemvmt/status/1164180958666469376

Disgusting

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Ever realize maybe Trump didn't need to fly with Epstein when he had his own private plane? Clinton didn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Force_One

They're all terrible

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I'm halfway considering taking up the tauren Druid mantle again

Or a shaman. But that fucking class quest was enough once

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https://thinkprogress.org/kids-in-border-camps-are-9-times-likelier-to-die-of-flu-trumps-team-wont-vaccinate-them-edca48725469/

Hold families indefinitely. Separate the family unit. Don't offer any basic hygienic measures or disease control. Don't allow them the ability to leave. Don't allow those that are born here any rights.

This is a death sentence for so many. All of those things separately are bad enough. Look at it all together. These detainment centers are places people are being sent to die. Those that live will be burdened with trauma that will ruin lives. Atrocities care of the US government

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An original surface pro can run Minecraft

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ChaosAzeroth posted...

Humans not wanting to face how catastrophic that is. No surprise there. Not much most people can do to stop the fire. Kinda feels like watching a giant nature train wreck right now tbh.

Mourning the loss of a historic building is much easier than facing this. Yes, losing history sucks. But this is something that can impact life on the planet. Much harder to swallow.

Of course it could be human selfishness too. I kinda think it's a mix.

This isn't a wildfire. The Amazon is being burned to the ground for money. This must be stopped. The Amazon is not the only place being razed for profit, and none of it is being put forward in the media

It's entirely human greed killing the planet. We need to acknowledge that and end it

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When you try and search for information about the fire, you mostly get advertisements for the Amazon device

Nearly 10,000 new fires spotted by satellite since Thursday

The Amazon is dangerously close to the tipping point into desertification. If they burn enough forest the ecosystem is not coming back, it will spiral into collapse. It's terrifying.

How much coverage went to Notre Dame and that fire? How many billions of dollars? Nothing happening with this. Priorities are way out of wack

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What in the fuck is even going on right now

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-trump/trump-says-he-is-seriously-looking-at-ending-birthright-citizenship-idUSKCN1VB21B

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WastelandCowboy posted...

So internment camps?

I'm sure some people will try and justify it

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OhhhJa posted...

3 to 4 weeks without moderations... one debatable minor moderation shouldnt result in a suspension. Methinks a mod doesnt like me here

Any history is still history that weighs things more heavily. I don't action on this board. I have been slack modding lately anyway whoops

Something something doth protest too much

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https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/08/21/cruel-beyond-imagination-trump-reportedly-set-unveil-plan-detain-immigrant-families

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-administration-migrant-families-children-detention-dhs-flores-a9072551.html

This is not okay

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It is serious news and no it's not getting the deserved coverage

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pedro45 posted...

What wolfy described is basically how I tip, plus a little more. I look around me, judge the service and amount of people, and then judge the tip on that, not just the bill.
I've been to too many varying places where a percentage just doesn't work out fairly. I rarely get that much better treatment when the price of the meal goes up, so why should the tip go up?
I generally aim for $5-$10 tip and that amounts to about 15%+ for most of my meals.

Servers have to tip out based on their bill total, so yes, tipping based on the bill is very important

Tip outs must still be paid when servers don't get tipped, or earn less in tips than what they would have to contribute.

In a restaurant with a five per cent tip-out policy, a server still has to tip out $5 on every $100 tab.

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Aculo posted...

this is fucking stupid. at what point do you sacrifice that much time for your shitty job?

literally 4 hours of your day is spent travelling. you're basically telling your loved ones to fuck themselves, you'd rather be anywhere but with them. if you have pets, it's neglect if you're doing a full work day + travel, ok?

why wouldn't you try to find a job closer to you, or more respectful of your time?

never mind, i know the answer, ok?

Dude I moved a long time ago and I'm like a 30 minute walk from home, thanks for the heap of insults for no reason though

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Over two hours within the same city. One way.

Transit here sucks some days. It was still normally an hour

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Dynalo posted...

I recalled seeing a vegan butter chicken on the menu last time I was there and was very curious how on earth you make something that's mostly cream and chicken into a vegan dish. I assume tofu and coconut milk, but no clue.

Yeah it's honestly very good! I usually get the Chana wrap myself. Or the dal and samosas combo is good for several lunches haha.

They use some kind of soy chicken and I think their sauce has a cashew base. I've made my own vegan butter chicken that way and that's the most similar to theirs. It's not quite right for coconut milk. It is nice and tasty.

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Dynalo posted...

I live really close to Die Pie, walk by it all the time. Perhaps I'll try that out.

I may take you up on that offer.

An Chay is next door! Also vegetarian.

For the record Die Pie was the place that blew the vegan's mind. Their pizza is really nice. But they also have great burgers.

I live a 15 minute walk from there so let me know. Remedy also has really nice vegan options for food.

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Dynalo posted...

You're still in Edmonton right? What would you recommend for vegan restaurants? I've only been to Copper Branch downtown, but that was pretty "fast-foody" so I feel like there have to be better options. And I'm not actually 100% sure if it was vegan or just vegetarian.

Ideally a place that has a lot more than just meat substitutes on their menu. I find that if I'm eating something that's meant to simulate meat, I can't help but compare it to meat that I would probably rather have instead. Many better things can be done with vegan dishes.

Yeah. Edmonton is the vegan capital of Canada for restaurants. Copper Branch is fully vegan. It's the first vegan fast food chain in Canada. It's right by my work so I go there sometimes.

Downtown I highly recommend Die Pie, Padmanadi, The Moth, Clever Rabbit, and my local small fave is Veggie Garden (shitty neighborhood but great cheap food). Branching out from the core check out Loma House, Good Stock, and Narayanni's has a $15 Indian vegan buffet night every Tuesday (cash only) that's worth the price.

And if you ever want to try vegan stuff with a guide I'm always down to show people vegan eats in the city

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Dynalo posted...

I feel like one (or both) of those are in basically everything. Good ol "modified milk ingredients".

Makes sense that people would accidentally (I hope) feed you something non-vegan. The amount of recipes that call for milk or eggs is astronomical and I could see people just not thinking about it.

Fucking right it is. It's ridiculous. One of my friends has a child with a severe dairy allergy. I've helped her find options that won't cause her daughter to need an ER visit.

Vegan is at least good for people with the most common food allergies.

My mom made me a "vegan dessert" that was full of milk !!! My stomach got so upset.

Dynalo posted...

I tend to always check the nutrition label, mostly for calories and fat content, but never really make my way down to the ingredients list.

One thing to note on that part of the label is if there's any cholesterol it is not vegan, period

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Dynalo posted...

Honest question, did you ever accidentally eat/drink something non-vegan in the last 2 years?

To clarify, I don't mean it in a way of "oh you didn't read the label and slipped up once so the two years doesn't count!". It just seems ridiculous to me to try to keep track of all the ingredients in everything, unless you're prepping basically every meal you eat from scratch. I'm positive that I would accidentally ingest something non-vegan at some point, even if I were to try it for a while.

Oh for sure. But that was on other people and not me. Except for a few things. I haven't knowingly ate nonvegan stuff.

I've had people fed me things that weren't vegan. I've accidentally bought a few things that weren't and gave them away after realizing my mistake. Like who expects milk in salt and vinegar potato chips? I'm still vegan even if someone fed me something with milk or eggs.

It's not much to read labels honestly. Once you figure out what to look for it's a quick glance. There's a lot of food that is normally vegan without being labeled as such. That said, I've bought some things labeled vegan that weren't. I do not trust the vegan label. I always read the ingredients at this point. I do cook most of my meals as well. If I go out to eat I prefer going to fully vegan places, my city has quite a few.

I know so many people with food allergies and other considerations that have developed in adulthood, if you're not reading the labels you really ought to be

Dynalo posted...

As for the meat tax, I just wish there were better solutions than taxes like that, because I just really dislike taxes that are unilateral or "fair" like that.

There's no doubt that they work, that can't really be disputed. Countless studies done over various different industries and tests of implementing a tax, they all generally achieved the result they wanted... I just don't like how it gets the result.

Taxes like that just hurt poor people way more. Upper middle class and upper class may be annoyed, but won't change their lifestyle over it. They'll continue buying meat at the same rate they were before. Middle class may slow down their consumption a bit, but certainly won't stop. Poor people will be priced out and it's now something that's a "treat" for them.

So the end result is achieved - less meat being sold, increased prices to offset the loss producers would have taken, and taxes to subsidize whatever we decide should take it's place. But we got there by telling a whole class of people they could no longer have something, and I just have a fundamental problem with that. I don't have a better solution. I'm honestly not sure there is a better solution. But it doesn't mean I necessarily have to like the proposed one.

I do agree that the burden should lie with industry and not individuals. The current way of things is untenable and a great cost is going unpaid. My only better suggestion is to go after those big ag companies but that will be hard with the money and power they possess. The subsidies must stop.

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LinkPizza posted...

Sorry. I meant gelatine... But only in some stuff. Some of their drink arent vegan. Most are, though...

...You realize gelatine is gelatin yeah?

I mean I've seen it before but it's almost always with something that includes dairy as well

There's just no need for gelatin in a drink

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Nade Duck posted...

is vanilla coke vegan?

Pretty sure yes, the ingredients are vegan

LinkPizza posted...

Maybe. Coke says that most of its products are vegan. But a few of their beverages do contain gelatin. You could probably check their websites for the specific drinks...

Gelatin in beverages, the fuck?

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miki_sauvester posted...

Also, I broke my seven years straight of vegetarianism upon my girlfriend's recommendation. Kind of ironic, since it's usually the other way around with most guys.

Ouch. I'd drop someone for that lmao

Ok so everyone mad about a meat tax: how about we just completely stop subsidizing the cost of meat? If you think a small tax on meat is bad, watch the cost explode overnight.



the American government spends $38 billion each year to subsidize the meat and dairy industries, but only 0.04 percent of that (i.e., $17 million) each year to subsidize fruits and vegetables.

That's over a hundred dollars per American citizen subsidizing meat and dairy right now

That doesn't even count their unhealthy grain feed that's also, wow, subsidized. Or the environmental cost which is substantial and never paid by the producer

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SusanGreenEyes posted...

Assuming that the majority of non vegans will vote to tax meat does not make sense. The popular vote is required in order to pass laws. That's how it works.

Many non vegans recognize the environmental cost (devastation) of meat production. Like carbon taxes that have been done in many nations.

Vegans don't have enough influence to even propose these taxes

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Mead posted...

No but Im confident the majority are environmentally conscious and care enough about animal welfare to support alternatives to our currently destructive methods

Heck consumer data has shown that most of the consumer base for the beyond/impossible burgers are omnivores

It's changing too

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/andrew-coppolino-vegan-vegetarian-less-meat-restaurant-options-1.4889035

Only 84% of Canadians surveyed said they eat meat. I believe Canada is past the 10% mark for vegetarians in all national surveys at this point. Most people I know that still eat meat are reducing consumption as well.

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HornedLion posted...

@Doctor_Foxx

Question: Do you feel any physical benefits of such a diet?

What are the pros?

Better digestion, more sensitive taste buds, more even energy, get all the fiber, feel better about what I eat, poop every day quick no problem. It fixed my chronic decade long B12 deficiency lmao

I lost a little weight switching. Going to get my cholesterol tested, that was the other thing I was mostly curious about.

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Shit I offered to bring dessert to dinner tonight and completely forgot the bakery was closed today

Panic time

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Jen0125 posted...

I like the taste of tofu itself.

Me too. I have grown to appreciate the subtle flavor and smooth texture. Cold tofu in the summer is just lovely

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LinkPizza posted...

But eating isnt illegal, nor should it be. People just like different foods. They should have to give up the foods they like because other people dont like eating them.

I haven't proposed outlawing it and no one here has

Should people consider giving up something they take pleasure in that directly hurts (or kills) others?

I think they should at the least give it serious consideration

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wwinterj25 posted...

I've never had it. I would try it though.

Went out for sushi last night and had so much tofu

I got some fruity tofu desert today that was good

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SusanGreenEyes posted...

My morality is different from yours and I'm perfectly fine with that.
I don't need to seek your approval or anyone else's.

Why are you here time and time again to defend your actions. You gotta go out of your way to do that

I just want to talk about tofu

Tofu is really good

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