Lurker > DoomTheGyarados

Hbthebattle posted...

htaeD posted...

Read anything in between leaving and coming back?

I'm starting to and I'm not feeling great on people being not willing to jump on Ben but being instantly willing to jump on me.

So Tom, Puns, Lea is your current suspect pool?
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Sir Chris

Hbthebattle posted...

oh hey
I'm back

Hbthebattle posted...

oh fuck

I laughed.
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Sir Chris

Also I will completely agree with Lopen, and indicated as much for a bit now, that his back and forth with HB was VERY good and the entire basis of me being able to form that read. Lopen baited HB and I just saw that he swallowed it is all.

Also yeah Puns, I was so confused last night.
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Sir Chris

Leafeon13N posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

This is not what any of them have done this game btw

That is what they did in this scenario though. Only one of them provided any sort of independent thought even.

Sheeping because you agree is perfectly fine if you've been contributing to the game.
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Sir Chris

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

This is not what any of them have done this game btw
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Sir Chris

Leafeon13N posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Was me quantifying my vague statement. It was a couple of paragraphs down so I understood how you missed it.

Honestly, it's literally just restating what you already said in slightly longer form. Its not really much of an expansion on it.

No, it is a pretty important thing when what I am saying is if a member of town thought I was important then it follows they would be interacting with me instead of merely propping me up. Your attack on my argument was that it was anecdotal and what I was saying was "no, it wasn't. I was merely reminded of this logic string from an anecdotal occurrence of it."

Also the people who voted Hb after me have been pretty vocal this game and accusing any of them of blindly sheeping isn't very good thought.
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Sir Chris

Actually Red, let me help:

HB's whole "Yeah respect Chris and give him importance but also not really interact with Chris and act like he is important in a interactive way!" is familiar to me from a scum handbook. So I feel better about this vote.

Was me quantifying my vague statement. It was a couple of paragraphs down so I understood how you missed it.
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Sir Chris

Anyway Pez let's try to redeem your image as a lean scum for most of the game. Hb thoughts?
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Sir Chris

I feel pretty great about the wagon formation of this lynch too.

HB it's time to d-d-d-duel.
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Sir Chris

Sonic gently brushed the hair out of his companion's face. The sun was high in the sky but the intensity of the stare between these old friends dwarfed anything the bright star above could ever hope to muster.

"This is the end," Sonic said, his voice muted although his eyes sparkled with tears.

"Aye," Lea said.
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Sir Chris

I also like chains because if HB is scum there is 0% chance Ulti and Lopen are scum, and from there I gain more insight. Like people trying to shade Lopen when Lopen has been low key very pro town (it is low key though so if I don't respect your skill you'll get a pass for not noticing) are probably next on my list.

Which means we might have Red vs Chris because if my previous two deduction of HB and Lopen are right then him soft attacking Lopen given his intelligence is "UH OH"
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Sir Chris

I never try to butter a town Tom up as scum tbh.

Just being honest. I'd probably like go 'boo" and cause you to shriek in terror or something.

I have no fear of being mislynched anymore because of my beautiful streak that came crashing down so I am just playing loose. Vote HB with me, he said I was a big deal but hasn't been probing my thoughts at all. Scum trying to placate me bzzz bad idea.
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Sir Chris

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Well, I am pretty "subdued" as it were because I have had almost a year of training professionally in dealing with people in high pressure situations and it has made it a lot easier for me to not be reactionary to things. I feel I am providing good content, and either that will be seen in time or it won't be seen in time and I'll be lynched, but given I was just lynched in the most painful way possible last month that's not a burden that worries me anymore. Just got to do your best.

Tom is a player I know pretty well so asking him questions to determine things makes sense. Then again I am confident he is town here so less probing is required.

@5tarscream Hello. Can you please tell me what posts of mine you found to be most arrogant? Also what post of mine you thought was the most clear indicator that I may be town. Thank you.

@Corrik Do you buy that Sk "hunting" in this case is evidence of a scum pez?

@Tom Bombadil - I will say once you cease trying to murder me we are likely to get along, as we agree on both of your other scum leans and all of your town leans (red subject to change but he used nuance with me which is always a good start to that interaction). Do you think Ben and I are scrapping at each other is mafia theater or do worlds exist that we are more likely unaligned?

I guess this isn't wholly surprising, I have witnessed before that for some inverted reason town Chris is more likely to get early suspicion than scum Chris due to perception issues. I think no less than 6 people have expressed worry about me so far, and honestly a large majority of them are likely to be town.

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Sir Chris

Tom Bombadil posted...

I agree with a lot of chris points mid D1 and am not sure how to feel about that
did I get smarter?
is chris selling me something?

Tom you do realize you made a reads post and I said "I agree with this"
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Sir Chris

A couple of notes:

I am not subdued. Just putting that out there. I am busy sure but I have been pretty much having fun in topic and in my thought processes. I don't know why you expect me to be jumping up and down but thoughtful analysis Chris is like, peak Chris when I have help to work through a game. If you want to lynch me for it then that's a game problem not a me problem.

Luis being suspicious of Pez of SK stuff to me fits within Luis' town profile fairly well. Luis is a player who believes in attacking pillars of thought rather than get in the dirty with changing player tells. I disagree with this but he has had success with this in the past so it isn't surprising. Also the fact of the matter is I am not a big fan of Pez so even if Luis' attacks are wrong and need to be addressed so that potential scum can't focus on those as a way to slip the noose I am not sold on Luis as a lynch yet.

Would be wholly shocked if Lopen is scum by the way, and I have known him for a long time. Ulti/HB are not both scum on his lynch though and I would say Ulti town HB scum at present. HB's reasoning for digging my post and his thoughts backing up why it stood out and giving me the benefit of the doubt just... seem off.

Actually this is reminding me of a game I played earlier this year where someone did that, let's vote HB.

##Unvote:
##vote: HB

So I find it kind of funny that people are hardcore attacking my Ben logic as if it was anything more than an early game hunch to get the ball rolling more. I still don't like the play from Ben but it was never meant to be substantive and stand the test of time on its own.

Also no more than 1/3 of the people on me are scum and it is just as likely it is 0/3, and HB's whole "Yeah respect Chris and give him importance but also not really interact with Chris and act like he is important in a interactive way!" is familiar to me from a scum handbook. So I feel better about this vote.

Feeling great about Tom, great about Lopen (especially if this vote is right), good about Ulti, Puns, Cam and decent about Luis, Corrik, and Lea.

Good place to start.
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Sir Chris

Which part? I just mean that pez and Tom are never wrong about the other due to an intimate friendship.

Here I say it is for evil as I think pez may have used it to hand wave Tom town
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Sir Chris

Yes, which is why I want people to look at pez independent of the SK stuff because I think he tried to use his room mate powers FOR EVIL.
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Sir Chris

Wednesdays are rough but not quite consumed fully yet! If you could quote the posts in question I can give feedback but my initial Mzero impression is "eh" which is basically most Mzero day ones unless I really focus hard on him.
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Sir Chris

Ah I didnt read that. Does he seem similar in any other ways?
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Sir Chris

5tarscream posted...

I get Corrik pressuring puns but when he deduced puns was town power why announce that to everyone? Why not keep that to yourself and let scum work it out for themselves. Like I dont see the benefit to town of outing what you believe is town power. Why not just let it slide when you had that thought.

Because Corrik is trying to exert flow over the game. Either way scum Corrik has no reason to make it public so he is very likely town.
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Sir Chris

Hi Tom please stop hurting me I want to love you and make sweet, sweet scum lynches with you in the pale moonlight.
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Sir Chris

dowolf posted...

and you are telling everyone he is town power because...?

I mean having Puns murdered so that I may live is +EV always if you believe I am town.

Come on dowolf, it makes sense.
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Sir Chris

Corrik7 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I do not.

By the way Pez, I am totally laying my usual traps. Maybe just too subtle for you.

Second follow up, How confident are you that Puns is town power because I am starting to worry.

I am 100% confident he is. If he was actually miller (which again he has a 0.0% chance) he would have acted more caught and annoyed at me for "outting" him because it would have let him have a higher chance of drawing a shot as actual miller.

But, he is town power and he now thinks it is scummy that I am making it more than known. Where as a Miller would have relished in the fact I "outted" him cuz it made his job easier to play his role and disrupt scum with it.

His reaction was town though. Scum doesn't say "shut" "please chill" "you aren't helping us by doing this". Etc. He didn't wanna be forced into claiming his power role. It was fluidly a town reaction and he is not miller. He could have, but it is outside his "range", to have made that claim as Villager. Thus, he is town power that wanted to remain hidden and left alone to do some damage this game over time.

Hm. Yes I can agree with that line of thought, I guess Puns is just having a misadventure of a lifetime over us.

Also I am not too paranoid about you because you could always read me pretty well so I suppose you're just feeling friendly this game.
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Sir Chris

htaeD posted...

Hey Chris (why @ me tho?)

I cant actually really think of a specific downside. But it would still be giving them info.
I was more curious about Corriks mindset than the implications of the act.

Yeah but to formulate that question don't you think you have to, logically, see a downside in order to ask about the benefit of the transaction? You also give town, which is more players than scum, the same information and also if Corrik is correct and town then scum more likely than town knows miller is less likely due to their own role configuration.
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Sir Chris

dowolf posted...

that was s fun catchip

didn't like hbl vote on lopen. feels like excuse to pile on.

love how cam accidentally neglected to read the part of my post where i said i was busy and would be more active come morning

also phone typing is awful how do people do it

The little swipe feature is god mode mafia play on the go.

BTW you are right HB does not look great right now. I thought Lopen did a really, really good job of against him one on one last night when he was probing for information. Stronger read of that interaction is Lopen town.
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Sir Chris

htaeD posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.

Playing along here...
why would you let scum know that millers dont exist?

Hi @htaeD what is the downside for mafia to know there are no millers?
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Sir Chris

I do not.

By the way Pez, I am totally laying my usual traps. Maybe just too subtle for you.

Second follow up, How confident are you that Puns is town power because I am starting to worry.
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Sir Chris

You guys have me for ten minutes if you want any hot takes before work swallows me whole btw!
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Sir Chris

By the way if Pez is scum, which I think is possible given tone and general vibe of his posts, it's not for the SK stuff is what me and Tom are both saying.

hint hint.
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Sir Chris

Well, I am pretty "subdued" as it were because I have had almost a year of training professionally in dealing with people in high pressure situations and it has made it a lot easier for me to not be reactionary to things. I feel I am providing good content, and either that will be seen in time or it won't be seen in time and I'll be lynched, but given I was just lynched in the most painful way possible last month that's not a burden that worries me anymore. Just got to do your best.

Tom is a player I know pretty well so asking him questions to determine things makes sense. Then again I am confident he is town here so less probing is required.

@5tarscream Hello. Can you please tell me what posts of mine you found to be most arrogant? Also what post of mine you thought was the most clear indicator that I may be town. Thank you.

@Corrik Do you buy that Sk "hunting" in this case is evidence of a scum pez?

@Tom Bombadil - I will say once you cease trying to murder me we are likely to get along, as we agree on both of your other scum leans and all of your town leans (red subject to change but he used nuance with me which is always a good start to that interaction). Do you think Ben and I are scrapping at each other is mafia theater or do worlds exist that we are more likely unaligned?

I guess this isn't wholly surprising, I have witnessed before that for some inverted reason town Chris is more likely to get early suspicion than scum Chris due to perception issues. I think no less than 6 people have expressed worry about me so far, and honestly a large majority of them are likely to be town.
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Sir Chris

turbopuns3 posted...

The meat of the post was about ben.

The rest was just "lean", "lean", "lean"

ben was the only thing that actually mattered in that post. The only thing you can actually be held accountable for later.

Ergo the ben part is all that counts.

... um...

Puns are you feeling like you have something to prove here? Like I read the topic, provide my usual high level of insight and here you are saying that my four other reads are null because they arent incredibly strong very early day one.

How could you possibly have that standard for s post? How is that even reality.

...
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Sir Chris

That is legitimately strong content by me drawing on experience with the player or association logic and calling that weak is like
... just wrong. What are you even doing?
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Sir Chris

Puns said it was weak for focusing on one player but in that one post I give five reads. What the FUCK puns?
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Sir Chris

I am going to sleep now, and I will maybe not post until like 11 tomorrow. Later.
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Sir Chris

benjamin3740 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically every player has their limitations. It is called a "range" - and if you know a player well enough you know their range. My range, for example, is disgustingly largely and that's what makes me difficult to contend with and to really "know." Tom on the other hand can never, ever, win a prolonged in topic argument with me. Now look at Tom's further reaction to my proclamation of he is town? Annoyance. I give him a chance to take his early game gambit and go packing but instead of redoubles his effort. This is always a losing contest for a scum Tom because the more direct interactions you give me as a player the more deadly and precise I become, thus my play improving dramatically as the game goes along. Scum Tom really would never choose to speed along my learning curve in a game with him by pressing the issue.

So no, not subject to WIFOM.

Hint: My own range must be larger than you currently think it is!

No? You could in theory still be town under the parameters I have laid out, I just don't think it is the most likely course at the moment given what I've seen. You don't understand ranges.

If you think I can make jokes about the OFFICIAL BOOK OF CONFIRMED TOWN as town, and also make a post warning about my future lack of activity when I'm town, then why call me scum at all?

Let's say a town range is the numbers 1-80 and the scum range is 60-100

81-100 is always scum
1-59 is always town

60-80 is where things get more interesting. I would say right now I have you in the low 70s on that scale, which means you are approaching but not precisely never town territory.

Simple.
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Sir Chris

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lopen posted...

Just skip em then. It's 2 hours into day 1 do you really think it'll have useful information?

Okay this dude really is scum. Openly admits to anti-town behavior with his terrible reason for voting me, and now openly tells people skipping posts is okay. That is just bad play.

Nah in 435 he is clearly trapping HB with a relaxed stance that if you look closely has no holes in it to exploit. Truly high level town play from the ever dangerous Lopen.
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Sir Chris

two town and one scum, easy solve tbh.

Corrik7 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically every player has their limitations. It is called a "range" - and if you know a player well enough you know their range. My range, for example, is disgustingly largely and that's what makes me difficult to contend with and to really "know." Tom on the other hand can never, ever, win a prolonged in topic argument with me. Now look at Tom's further reaction to my proclamation of he is town? Annoyance. I give him a chance to take his early game gambit and go packing but instead of redoubles his effort. This is always a losing contest for a scum Tom because the more direct interactions you give me as a player the more deadly and precise I become, thus my play improving dramatically as the game goes along. Scum Tom really would never choose to speed along my learning curve in a game with him by pressing the issue.

So no, not subject to WIFOM.

What is everyone's range

Not going to bother going in depth on that tonight.
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Sir Chris

Pez has a pet SK theory based off meta and he wanted to apply it. I would say we're not really hunting SK
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Sir Chris

pezloco posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically every player has their limitations. It is called a "range" - and if you know a player well enough you know their range. My range, for example, is disgustingly largely and that's what makes me difficult to contend with and to really "know." Tom on the other hand can never, ever, win a prolonged in topic argument with me. Now look at Tom's further reaction to my proclamation of he is town? Annoyance. I give him a chance to take his early game gambit and go packing but instead of redoubles his effort. This is always a losing contest for a scum Tom because the more direct interactions you give me as a player the more deadly and precise I become, thus my play improving dramatically as the game goes along. Scum Tom really would never choose to speed along my learning curve in a game with him by pressing the issue.

So no, not subject to WIFOM.

You missed one element there. While you might know someone's range. They don't always know they're own range. I was serious when I said I could see a SK Tom come at you that way. I think it's not probable. But I think it could happen.

Third party range is its own thing and not enough data points will ever be gathered to reliably know it. I do think we can agree Tom knows enough to know "oh god don't want to mess with Chris."
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Sir Chris

benjamin3740 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Basically every player has their limitations. It is called a "range" - and if you know a player well enough you know their range. My range, for example, is disgustingly largely and that's what makes me difficult to contend with and to really "know." Tom on the other hand can never, ever, win a prolonged in topic argument with me. Now look at Tom's further reaction to my proclamation of he is town? Annoyance. I give him a chance to take his early game gambit and go packing but instead of redoubles his effort. This is always a losing contest for a scum Tom because the more direct interactions you give me as a player the more deadly and precise I become, thus my play improving dramatically as the game goes along. Scum Tom really would never choose to speed along my learning curve in a game with him by pressing the issue.

So no, not subject to WIFOM.

Hint: My own range must be larger than you currently think it is!

No? You could in theory still be town under the parameters I have laid out, I just don't think it is the most likely course at the moment given what I've seen. You don't understand ranges.
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Sir Chris

Lopen posted...

Goddammit I know how the voting works I'm a legend of the squared circle. More legendary than both bashams and shaniqua combined. I ruled a universe!

I ruled a universe. As Ba'al.
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Sir Chris

pezloco posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

pezloco posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

I learned my lesson when I got heat last game for too many ****posts
and ignored it this game to make just as many jokes

IMO, you're making the same amount of jokes, but you're less fluffy. In particular your posts are more carefree. This means that the content you're giving is more genuine. You're way less hesitant so far compared to last game.

How good are you at reading Tommy boy? I picked up in the end of last game and this one that you used to be roommates, so I'm inclined to feel pretty good about Tom reading this

Who wants to answer this?

He's Tom bestest bud forever.
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Sir Chris

Lopen probably scum because he has way too much fun being the villain for him not to be scum lol
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Sir Chris

Lopen posted...

Does anyone really have good day 1 play? I mean... really. Aren't they always 46 hours of buffoonery followed by 2 hours of running around with heads cut off and scrambling onto a lynch?

And Tom I'll have you know I knew Danny was the Damaja without the help of wikipedia. That's how strong my references are.

Ehh, varying degrees, but largely correct. Your best bet in general is to force interactions and force reactions based off of those to get large data samplings. Less "Look at me" and more "leave a legacy to dig through."
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Sir Chris

Basically every player has their limitations. It is called a "range" - and if you know a player well enough you know their range. My range, for example, is disgustingly largely and that's what makes me difficult to contend with and to really "know." Tom on the other hand can never, ever, win a prolonged in topic argument with me. Now look at Tom's further reaction to my proclamation of he is town? Annoyance. I give him a chance to take his early game gambit and go packing but instead of redoubles his effort. This is always a losing contest for a scum Tom because the more direct interactions you give me as a player the more deadly and precise I become, thus my play improving dramatically as the game goes along. Scum Tom really would never choose to speed along my learning curve in a game with him by pressing the issue.

So no, not subject to WIFOM.
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Sir Chris

MZero11 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

Question seems irrelevant. Do you think Chris' reason for liking Tom is not enough?

I don't like "Scum ____ wouldn't do this" arguments because that's exactly why they would do it

In other words it's WIFOM

Incorrect, by the way.

Tom is not a good enough player to attempt WIFOM with me as an opponent. Source: Knowing Tom for over a decade.
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Sir Chris

turbopuns3 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Chris is having some memories of really "slow starts" that then unfolded into better games starting day 2.

What is this referring to.

I just remember vividly reading games of yours where your day 1 play was less than stellar and then suddenly you came alive.
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Sir Chris

Tom is town having an adventure, Ben is scum, Puns is town trying to find his way to a temple in a snowy storm, the shadows of my legacy his only refuge from the blistering cold winds that assault his mind.

Corrik although a bit weary as the hand of fate has been unkind to him, chooses boldness over cowardice in his pursuit of the outcast Ben.

The others look on, hoping that their stances would be heard before the greater township when the storm passed and they were all gathered into the square. All but one, of course.
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Sir Chris

I have no idea who Camarija is but I like their style.
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Sir Chris

I think Ulti just likes me.
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Sir Chris