Lurker > handsomeboy2012

Kinzo is the worst kind of stalker. In real life, he would lock up a woman in a hidden room, and if she commits suicide, he would freeze the body and put it on display or something.

Dels posted...

wait, are you saying that something in Umineko doesn't make sense?????!

Did I say something like that? I was just trying to guess what happened between Kinzo and Beatrice...

Or am I to believe that Kinzo built the mansion and garden exactly the same as Beatrice's childhood

The hidden mansion actually exists? What's with the opening scene in this episode then, did Beatrice get her memories wiped, turned into a kid, and had to learn magic all over again?

Who cares if we're sworn enemies, let me tell you my life story!

What, she's actually showing all of this to Battler.

Is this another dream of Beatrice? Old Kinzo shouldn't be anywhere near where Beatrice lived as a human kid.
It's so weird hearing Beatrice speaking in a different tone.

Rosa now says she killed the mistress Beatrice which is completely different from her reactions to the 'human' Beatrice in ep2

It's better than Beatrice beating down on Battler every time.
Ronove is an observer for now, he should have some bigger role the story soon.

Characters going at each other with their wits always gets me pumped. Arguments and counterarguments and turning the opponent's strategy against them, stuff like that.

The debates in purgatory are the best parts of the game. Great to see Beatrice getting embarrassed once again.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Battler is seriously getting good at forcing Beatrice to say something in red (or refuse) to his advantage. Now, we know for certain that there are more than 18 people on the island. But this does not confirm that the extra person/people is the culprit.
The plot has thickened. Just who else is on Rokkenjima?

I might be jumping the gun a bit here, because its wrong to assume Refusal to say Red Words = False. There's a possibility of unknown human characters though.

Is it that necessary to clear up the exact number of people on the island for Hempel's Raven to work? I think you can use other sorts of evidence to rule out external culprits. Maybe this kind of reasoning is not suitable for such brute-force arguments,

And no, I don't think there's any possibility of a mistress Beatrice.

Battler is seriously getting good at forcing Beatrice to say something in red (or refuse) to his advantage. Now, we know for certain that there are more than 18 people on the island. But this does not confirm that the extra person/people is the culprit.
The plot has thickened. Just who else is on Rokkenjima?

Ok, I think I get it. If Beatrice can prove that it is impossible for an outsider to commit the crime, then Battler is toast.

Logic is not one of my strong points. 'Hempel's Raven' is giving me a headache.

Can't Beatrice say 'There is no 19th person' in red and be done with it

Or Beatrice isn't the one who set this up. It's another of these unknown rules of the Umineko universe.

Battler's idealism is stupid, someone he knows has to be the killer in the first game at least.
Strangely, the 3rd game set up such that Beatrice is a mysterious mistress which lets Battler use the 19th person argument. No way it's going to be this easy, there will be a catch.

Why do Ronove and the Ass Nee-chans have the one-winged eagle on their clothes? Their only connection to the Ushiromiya family is via Beatrice.

On the topic of clothes, why does Kyrie have a bunch of diamond-shaped holes on the side of her shirt... thing?
Why does Eva hold a fan and never opens it?

I will never understand the fashion sense of posh, rich Japanese families.

Sceptilesolar posted...

handsomeboy2012 posted...

They all suspect the existence of a mistress called Beatrice, but I don't remember them mentioning it even once in Ep 1 and 2, not even when Beatrice appeared in person.

When they went to Kinzo's study in EP1, Natsuhi and Genji talked about this in some detail.

I assumed that it was something only Genji knew, and the others don't really believe it.

Really liking the Ronove guy and the banter between him and Battler. Lots of sarcasm in their conversation without being too one-sided. They both take the piss out of Beatrice so at least Battler can have a bit of fun now. But then Ronove is a demon, so who knows what his intentions are

It's as if Kyrie had known Beatrice all along, crazy how perceptive she is from a letter alone.
Boy, I can't wait for her to die first. Again.

Kyrie thinks that Beatrice had already won the 'game' as she knows where's the gold is. Yet because of arrogance, she challenged the others to the 'game' to find the gold anyway.
This is another one of those interesting parallels. Something of the sort is definitely happening between Beatrice and Battler, with the 'game' about Battler's fate instead of the inheritance. She is the type to gloat and take her time before the finishing blow.

Let's say for a moment that the Headship/gold trade is true, why would Beatrice give up 10 tons of gold for some flimsy title of Ushiromiya head along with all its debts?

I think there is still more to know about Natsuhi, getting so worked up over the family even if she was not born an Ushiromiya.

As always, I like watching the inheritance discussion. But it's all meaningless once the killing starts.

Ah, I think I get what you mean. After all, Kinzo did something to Beatrice ('mistress') that trapped her on Rokkenjima ('hidden mansion'), so there is some truth to it. Still, I'm sure Beatrice is already murderous before that, and Kinzo already knows what she would do when the time comes.

Raka_Putra posted...

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Now I don't buy the mistress theory at all but imagine a life where you are stuck in a hidden mansion seeing no one but Kinzo.

A good enough reason to become murderous?

Yeah that would definitely happen given that it's Kinzo. I'm not very sure what you're implying here though.

Now I don't buy the mistress theory at all but imagine a life where you are stuck in a hidden mansion seeing no one but Kinzo.

They all suspect the existence of a mistress called Beatrice, but I don't remember them mentioning it even once in Ep 1 and 2, not even when Beatrice appeared in person.

kaguya

Getting back to the story, the adults are taking the letter from Beatrice more seriously because of how Young Eva, whatever she is, pushed for Eva to think this is a chance for her to succeed Kinzo. She should be the reason for the deviation from Ep1. Perhaps this is another move from Beatrice?

So going back that logic, Kinzo started the whole process, with another human killing a bunch of people and reviving Beatrice. Battler's refusal to submit caused the rest of the games in which Beatrice is powerful enough to kill on her own.

Beatrice's power gets stronger across each game and could summon more and more minions: the ass nee-chans and the goats in ep2, and then the demon butler in ep3. This looks like a linear timeline and brings up the question of how much power she really had in ep1, was she able to even summon anything and kill anyone at all? We never see her throughout ep1 and she only appeared in person at the end, so I think there's still a real possibility that the ep1 killings were done by a human at the very least.

'Ass nee-chans'
I laughed at this. You know what, this will be what I call them from now on. It's easier than remembering their names or 'Seven Sisters of Purgatory'.

It's so weird having them chat like old friends when they should be enemies, not to mention how Battler gets killed repeatedly.

They went straight from the human world to Purgatory. This whole two worlds thing is just a mess.

Ronove? It's another one of those magical beings, how many of them are yet to appear in the game, don't tell be there's a whole page of them in the character screen

The Beatrice in the human world is aware that this is the 3rd game? And looks like Kinzo knows too?
It's such a pain to think about this kind of stuff

Even with a nice Teacher, Beatrice eventually became rotten. Looks like Maria is already Beatrice's apprentice, so I can imagine what Maria would become as a witch.

Maria, the Endless Witch, torturing another unfortunate family for fun with unspeakable cruelty while repeating 'Kihihihihi' and 'Uuuuu' over and over. 'Uuu, you are furniture!' 'Uuu, die!!'
....this is too terrible to comprehend. I would take Beatrice over witch-Maria any day.

At last Beatrice appears in the human world. It shows what happened to Maria when she was searching for the Rose in the garden. There are a few more perspectives and the cousins have a slightly different chat on the beach, otherwise almost everything is the same as Ep 1 iirc.

I got hit by a jump scare. ffs

Yawn It's the romance stuff again. I not against it in general but I just don't care much about it in Umineko. Please let it be a footnote in this episode.

After lunch. Typhoon isn't here yet so they could still go out.
This chapter is going much faster than the others.

Or is the dream some magical influence?

Eva is tough on the outside but is actually a big softie. Kind of an opposite to Rosa.

Looking at how differently she acts next to Hideyoshi, and all the others, she is capable of being both ladylike/womanly and strong/independent. In fact I dont think these two types of attributes are that much of a clash.

And it's all a dream. Fuck.

Also, Eva already has been Head of the Ushiomiya Family. For a few hours in Ep1 when Kinzo, Krauss and Rudolf are all dead or missing.

How ironic it must be for the sexist Krauss to have a daughter as his successor.

Oh there's a time jump in the middle of it in the form of a single sentence. What a weird way to do it.