Lurker > Dels

CelesMyUserName posted...

does pikachu right now count

what, come on, people aren't making porn of detective pikach-

you know what, i don't want to know

i mean, i already tagged them earlier

but here's hoping

john and neablis are around but don't have much to say

can you at least agree that on the chance we're both town, then scum are lurking in the shadows and we should at least make them stick their necks out and not do their dirty business for them?

i mean, we need the other people to show up

there's nothing i can do by talking to the two of you

if you're scum (even just once of you) i can't convince you of it, i need to convince them

and if you're town and we're just in-fighting, then they should show up and take a stance so we can figure it out.

ok

corrik why'd you unvote

yeah he did, and I said I could defer to him if it's what he wanted! he doesn't seem to have a problem with me considering you as scum. i'm not voting han right now so i'm not against neablis's wishes.

I feel like I've made perfect sense too! But you portray me as if I haven't been, which I object to, and think is a scum tactic where you try to shade me enough until people just believe I'm a crazy desperate scum.

I call that tactic out when I see it, but otherwise, I try to reason with you as best I can.

Corrik posted...

Dels posted...

man, my questions often come with a really polite and understanding tone and i say things like "just wondering what you think" "please let me know" "i'm willing to work with you" "i respect your opinion"

your questions are way more pointed, and i know your tactic is scum is to shout over people until people just listen. and yeah han is acting like i'm insane for daring to suspect "confirmed" people

How do I act as town

pretty much exactly like this, from what I can tell =P

but i'm not arguing you're scum for your behaviour here, i'm arguing you're scum because i say neablis, johnbobb, sultan, and probably igcd, are town.

that said, yeah, i'd like to think (from what i can remember) that as town you're more reasonable and make more sense. the things you're doing just feel like a show (your whole process vs neablis earlier) and the way you talk to me feels like you only care about using the things i say to paint me as shady manipulate desperate scum, rather than try to work with me

also so what if i'm "playing the victim", you have direct proof that i "play the victim" when i'm town too, so what makes it scummy?

man, my questions often come with a really polite and understanding tone and i say things like "just wondering what you think" "please let me know" "i'm willing to work with you" "i respect your opinion"

your questions are way more pointed, and i know your tactic is scum is to shout over people until people just listen. and yeah han is acting like i'm insane for daring to suspect "confirmed" people

where is everyone else?

why am i stuck in this hellhole with just corrik and han who twist every single thing i say against me?

why did death go to sleep?

this is pathetic.

if there's any chance that i really am just a crazy conspiracy theoriest, i'm gonna need help to dig myself out. hell, i'm starting to worry that maybe the scum really are neabliss and johnbobb and whatever and they're just letting this happen.

Corrik posted...

So ur role does not change over time in the game

no.

omg, i'm the crazy conspiracy theorist for suggesting that han and corrik might not be as confirmed as they say they are, meanwhile here they are working together to convince everyone to lynch me for my outrageous theory. lol. they are trying to overpower my one single voice and portray me as a crazy person!

Corrik posted...

I think as scum you inadvertently changed puns claim to one that wouldn't put us at Mylo.

dude, it's verifiable info outside of this thread that I'm the kind of person to never be into roles and claims and shit. i just wanna play vanilla. if i'm scum, the last thing i'd do is try to mess around with role stuff. i'd just stick with whatever puns said, or at best, i'd ask my team what to say and do what they said. there's no way, even if i was scum, that it'd be thinking that far ahead about this weird mylo shit. i want nothing to do with it.

Puns claim and yours are different. But puns also claimed his role changed depending on how many nights into the game it was. You haven't mentioned this at all.

yeah dude, because he lied. there ain't nothing like that. i don't lie about claims ever. i may keep them to myself for a while, but i never lie.

nah man, you know me, you know all this role power stuff goes over my head and isn't my area of focus, if i was town i wouldn't ask a thing about it. i can ask now if you'd like? but the rules don't let me publicize mod contact, so i'd rather avoid that slippery area and just, like, try to lynch scum today.

(no not a slip =P)

Corrik posted...

They can never complete a lynch. You literally just have to be the tiebreaker when town gets on the same lynch. And your slot is lynched last when it is 1-1 so town wins.

uh. whatever you say.

you sure this isn't you trying to convince people that it's okay to mislynch me because hey we wouldn't lose anyway?

htaeD posted...

We really should have gotten that info earlier, honestly.
I blame Puns of course.

Its too risky to test now clearly. My opinion is unchanged.
(Though if done earlier, I wouldnt have minded you hydraing with me. You could even control my doublevote that everyone is so worried about. Lol)

Goodnight then. Good luck town. I say lynch John.

Good night, death. If you're town, then john is likely scum (unless the team is super ballsy han/corrik/igcd), so thank you for trying. I hope things will work out. I really don't know what's gonna happen though.

Corrik posted...

Let's just assume that Dels is town (tho he isn't) and that death turns down his double vote to vote Dels or whatever.

Then tomorrow is 3 scum 3 town. But if dels hydras a scum player, scum cannot ever control the vote or force a tie. Thus town still controls the vote and the game is not over.

Am I looking at this wrong?

They could get to 3-3 but Dels could change the vote to towns side to complete a lynch. And Dels would know if he was on scum because the game would be over if he didn't choose scum.

yeah but what do you want me to do, f5 the thread all day nonstop so that as soon as my scum hydra tries to vote a townie, i unvote? this seems silly. let's just try to, like, lynch scum.

man, i dunno, last game where i was with death in this exact same situation (corrik hooting at everyone that i'm scum), he was scum and he just blatantly telegraphed that he'd never believe a word i said and was always gonna vote for me.

this game, he's been pretty open to me and doesn't seem to really want to vote me.

it's a difference. maybe an explainable one, but it does give me pause.

So what do people think of the "safe" option of voting death?

I'm... reluctant to do it, because he's just been so damn nice, but it's technically a compromise that multiple people can agree on. (Which means the scum are okay with it. Which could be bussing)

I'm not asking people to do it, I'm just asking people's opinions.

htaeD posted...

where did the word hydra even come from?

it's effectively like i'm hydra-ing with someone after i die

we'd both control the vote equally but lol if you think i'd, like, sit around 24/7 threadcamping to change their vote every time they make it or something. idk how it works.

Neablis posted...

Ah initial poe points to you, if it's not you probably sultan or corrik I guess? I'd lean towards sultana there I think

So essentially what you're saying is, I should defer to you that Han is definitely town, but you're not willing to put your neck out that much for Corrik, but that if I'm town, you'd guess the team is johnbobb/death/sultan. Okay. Thanks.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Dels posted...

is that your answer to my question, han?

If you're Town then there's something we're missing.

my question was way more detailed that. i'll repeat it.

if i'm town, then that means you think i should've replaced in, accepted you and corrik as town for power role reasons, accepted igcd as town from your scan, and accepted neablis as town for his gambit.

therefore, do you think the only acceptable/right thing for me to do would be to default to johnbobb/death/sultan as scum, and nothing else?

Neablis posted...

Which question am I answering dels?

the one you got annoyed at me about for asking you after saying i could vote you.

Look, Neablis, I can trust you on this. I really can. You've been in this game longer than me, and you have a much better grasp of the situation with the night actions than I do. If you want me to defer to you, I will defer.

And that would make the team... Johnbobb, death, and... what? Because you seem to agree FFNut's stuff was good, and IGCD was scanned.

is that your answer to my question, han?

Neablis posted...

Dels how can you say in one post that you trust me...but right before say you could vote me...

That's....idk crazy

dude, I said I could, italicized, maaaaaaybe vote you IF i was convinced that corrik and han had to be town and therefore corrik is right that you killed someone n2 (unless there's a ninja)

I believe you're town and have said so all day. but i'm just being as honest as possible about what my possibilities are. please don't take it the wrong way.

could you answer the question?

so han, in your ideal world, and in the world where i'm town, my best play, and my only real acceptable play, would be to say "okay, everyone says corrik and han's roles must be town, so i'll listen to that, and igcd is scanned, so that's that, and neablis is town because he did a neat gambit with han, therefore the scumteam is johnbobb/death/sultan, i'll just do my duty as a replacement and vote for those people"?

not a leading question, i really want to know your answer.

and regardless of the answer, do you see why i might believe that ffnut's stuff makes him town, and how that leaves me with an impossible situation?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Actually, everyone said unanimously that he was Scum and that they'd vote him today :v

lmao

i remember someone, was it sultan, telling me "eh pun had some things i liked and some i didn't", and john didn't seem to have much against my slot. but whatever, you definitely know better than me in this case haha

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Hmm.Dels posted...

multiple people have said they're happy with what i've been doing over the past 24 hours.

Multiple people are happy to see someone new in the game who is active and has a new voice. It's the replacement fallacy - guy comes in and sounds good and people forget about the last guy.

it doesn't sound like they had much of a problem with the last guy either

Neablis posted...

To be honest, Han is most likely the closest thing we have to a confirmed town, we have a JK on Han n1 with no kill.

Also have a bodyguard who died with two people going to Han.

We also know that Han and +1 visited sheep last night, two people visiting sheep if han is scum does not make sense I think.

So because of the actions i do think han is town.

Corrik i think is probably town but no confirmed obviously

Look, Neablis, I can trust you on this. I really can. You've been in this game longer than me, and you have a much better grasp of the situation with the night actions than I do. If you want me to defer to you, I will defer.

And that would make the team... Johnbobb, death, and... what? Because you seem to agree FFNut's stuff was good, and IGCD was scanned.

Corrik posted...

Dels posted...

man, i'm riding on a lot more than a claim, multiple people have said they're happy with what i've been doing over the past 24 hours. you can't make people change their minds by yelling about it until they give in.

I am voting you. If you can show me yelling, God bless you. Stop being dramatic to play the victim.

sure, consider it "forceful talking" rather than yelling. you know what i mean.

htaeD posted...

A thing I dont like is not knowing where so many votes are going, and my time is almost up (real life time that is)

i guess my vote will go to corrik. that's what i'd imagine right now, at least.

it could go to you if i wanted to play things safe, but eh.

it could, maaaaybe go to neablis if i'm convinced that han/corrik are just town and something has to explain the watch results night 2. but no one's convincing me. it could also go to johnbobb if i was convinced that.

my vote won't go to sultan. unlikely to go to igcd. i guess it could go to han but i'd rather vote corrik.

man, i'm riding on a lot more than a claim, multiple people have said they're happy with what i've been doing over the past 24 hours. you can't make people change their minds by yelling about it until they give in.

htaeD posted...

For what my opinion is worth. No they are not 100 % townlocked. But it just seems unlikely. (I think I already said this)

yeah i get that it seems unlikely. sometimes though, you're in the 10% of universes where the unlikely thing is real. i'd like to think we can identify it if it is, y'know?

Corrik posted...

Don't think it is a coincidence that Dels is trying to talk directly to the players he thinks are less experienced.

Death and Dels scum. Dels has no intention of ever voting death anyways.

And he has 3 players he views as less experienced he is trying to talk into his plan for a Mislynch. Strongly targeting sultan and igcd, which are the two I think are solidly town which makes sense. He needs 1 of them.

yeah yeah, i'm the big bad manipulator trying to whisper into the ears of the poor newbies

they are their own people, they can make their own choices. i'm trying to work with them 'cause i think they are town.

idk why you think i'm "strongly" targeting sultan and igcd over the others? i addressed my post to neablis and johnbobb too...

Yeah I know you weren't around, that's cool. You did give me info, which I'm grateful for, but then you left before we could really talk and you could try to get my perspective.

Then you came back and I gave my perspective on a lot of shit but rather than directly respond to my posts, you just sort of re-listed your reads and said that your opinion on me hadn't changed. It's pretty static. Do you see why I might feel you're being rigid and trying to stick with your previous gameplan?

I guess you don't need to solve the game with me, fair enough, you have reasons to trust Corrik and IGCD and Neablis, sure, so you just have 3 scum out of Dels/death/Johnbobb/Sultan. I shouldn't act like we have much to solve together.

Neablis, I'm being told that I'm completely insane to suggest that Han or Corrik could be scum.

Help me out here. Are they 100% lock confirmed town, or not?

sure, I'll say this again with tags just to make sure it's seen

Dels posted...

Look, I can't really get anywhere talking to the people who are my enemies, though I can hopefully clear up misinformation.

@Johnbobb and @TheSultanOfSlam and @Neablis, you guys are the ones I think are on my side. Do you believe Corrik that I'm manipulating you or whatever? You think maybe this narrative of the "confirmed towns" with "strong power roles" might be a trick? This goes to you too, @IfGodCouldDie, though I'm a bit wary Han scanned you as a buddy, but eh. If so, death is my townie buddy instead.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Dels, you're doing the whole "oh Han wouldn't do this, Han would do that" horseshit gameplay.

If Dels were Town, he would've posted "bazinga" as his first post in the game.

That's what you look like to me right now.

Man, all I said was that if you were town I'd think you'd be a bit more open to working with me, and it feels like you've never once tried to consider me as town. You're making it a bigger deal than it is.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Dels posted...

a) What's the plan then? Peddle a crazy theory and... uh... hope people listen? Or do it knowing no one will listen, just to... what, look good?

In mylo, you don't need to convince more than 1.

not true, exactly. you need 2 wrong votes on mylo. lylo you only need 1. and due to potential roles, you can't risk a quick hammer, so i couldn't go all in on bullshit and feel safe with it. also, two people voted corrik for their own reasons! I didn't need to do anything to convince them, though i'd like to hope my supportive opinion helped them.

Stop taking the angle of "oh woe is me". And we (mostly Corrik) has explained this to you already. I mean, if Corrik was truly Scum watcher, then he watched the person that both Neab AND DYL targeted two nights in a row. Makes sense on the second night scumkill, but the first as well? Awfully lucky coincidence. It makes way way way more sense that he is not lying about his role, and if that's the case, he's almost assuredly Town. Unless you're really convinced Scum would have "you get to know who the person who got targeted the most each night is!" as a role, considering they would be able to control that result... for what purpose?

Okay well first of all, it's a bit over my head. I don't really understand the full situation. I've relied on other people to debate it. I'd like to hear someone else's view here. It sounds to me like, yeah, maybe scum got a strong watcher role, which they can use to look like town. It's not impossible, is it? Why did Neab and DYL always target the same person? Coincidence...? Can you explain more?

They would either have to split up their actions and do their best to hope that it pops for someone they didn't target, or get it to pop so that they can... tell Town? Then it just becomes a role that exists to give Town information, which is dumb because it's a very pro-Town role.

Not pro-town if you use it to "confirm" yourself town and win... These types of roles do exist.

You misread on this.

And what's your point with IGCD? He's town, but his opinion doesn't matter because he's not good enough?

He's done basically nothing all game. The only reason I'm not mad I scanned him is because it helps with PoE.

No, I didn't misread. My interpretation of it is that, in your opinion, IGCD supporting my theories doesn't count because he's "not good enough" i.e. he's not "into it" enough, he played badly enough to be suspected, etc. I say his opinion is still valid, he's a good player.

Corrik posted...

You are encouraging people to vote someone you are not certain is scum but are not leading them.

Okay. I have seen enough.

man, it's my job to at least try to offer opinions.

you can keep acting like every weird thing i say means i'm scum, but sometimes my attitude is just weird, as town. yeah, i said "vote corrik" but i didn't vote you myself, i guess it's slightly hypocritical? whatever. you don't have a case for it being scummy, you're just throwing every argument you can at me and hoping it sticks.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

This is literal bullshit.

If Dels was Town, he wouldn't be making up dumb shit and would actually be contributing. This is a whole lot of fluff disguised as someone catching up with the game. Dels is too good a player to just say "eh, they don't seem Scum, it's probably the power claims who are practically confirmed by night actions".

But you just keep using roundabout arguments against me. First you said my problem is "looking for scum where there aren't any", and now I'm "making up dumb shit". Do you have specific examples? I feel like I'm being pretty reasonable!

Fluff disguised as catching up? I feel like I did a pretty good job! To figure out Sultan, I asked people to explain the FFNut situation, and now I get it. To figure out Neablis, I had people explain to me that watcher situation and I get that he was followed n2 to the nightkill, plus I looked through a bunch of his old posts and tried to help him solve the game. To figure out Johnbobb, I read his older posts and made a case for him being town based on his level of conviction. I understand the situation with you and your scans because I asked about it, and I trust IGCD as a result. I'm quite happy with my work so far.

I'm a good enough player that I won't let power claims fool me into seeing innocent townies as scum. Your claim can be the greatest scum fakeclaim ever, but you can't convince me Neablis and John and Sultan are scum when they're just not! You say "confirmed", but it's just you and Corrik repeating that you're both confirmed, others have admitted you're not. I asked. I did my research. If everyone said "no, dels, they're locktown, there's no chance", I'd have dropped it. But I recall multiple people saying stuff like "no, they don't have to be town". Don't accuse me of pushing a narrative when the only reason I'm on this narrative is because the rest of the town relayed the info to me.

I have no desire to engage with someone who I am positive at this point is Scum, and acting like I "would if I were Town" is such fanciful fiction. If Dels were Town, he would be speaking in German!

I'm engaging with you! Not fair if you don't engage back. I'm wishy washy. I change my mind all the time. Why don't you explain to me how you and Corrik's claims could never come from scum, and then maybe I'll go for a team with Johnbobb/Death? Hell, you seem to be against death right now, and I think he could be scum, can't we work together?

htaeD posted...

I really wish Sultan, Neab and IGCD were here right now

right? i'm literally just arguing with people i think are scum LOL

Corrik posted...

Like, Dels joined the game. Says he won't read it. Then is claiming behavior in the game reads with like 1/5th the game read if that.

Like lol

man, i've got my reads from the entirety of last topic, plus I clearly went back and looked for neablis and johnbobb posts in the first few topics.

you asked me to read past threads, and i did, and now you're ignoring it.

you're just hoping you can drown me out and count on the fact that i'm a weirdo to hope that people just ignore me.

Corrik posted...

"I say vote Corrik. I see a lot of people saying he isn't confirmed town but not doing anything about it" or some shit

Then

IGCD votes. Cuz he has to show he is doing something about it. It was a clear lead.

Then after.

Now granted you yourself say vote corrik but don't yourself because you want them to think it is their own idea... Start asking sultan if he wants to go on the lynch.

You are clearly pulling strings.

lol, I'm a pretty upfront person, not manipulative at all like you paint me. when I said "i say vote corrik", it meant that i was encouraging people to vote corrik, yeah! but they can still do it based on their own reasons, they don't need to listen to me. it was honest advice, not shady whispering. i didn't vote you myself 'cause i wasn't certain at that point, and also because i was offering my newbie advice, they've been in the game longer so it's not on me to make the first move.

and yeah, IGCD voted, i could've said "yesss igcd" or followed, but I didn't 'cause I was seeing how stuff played out. he unvoted and i didn't say a word. i have no agenda. i just want what's best for everyone.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

There's basically no reason to be looking in me or Corrik's direction. Neither of us make sense as Scum. You're using the veil of subbing into the game to push an angle that nobody else is pushing.

Okay, well two questions:

a) What's the plan then? Peddle a crazy theory and... uh... hope people listen? Or do it knowing no one will listen, just to... what, look good?

and b) If you think my angle is bad then just tell me why, and explain why you and Corrik's roles can just never be fake. You're shutting me out rather than trying to work with me.

The only people who are entertaining the idea at all are Sultan (who is on the Scumlist), and IGCD who we'd probably be lynching if I didn't scan him.

This is circular logic. Sultan is entertaining my idea... because if you're scum, he's town. You're basically saying "your idea that sultan is town is being supported by sultan so it doesn't count"

And what's your point with IGCD? He's town, but his opinion doesn't matter because he's not good enough?

htaeD posted...

you're good enough to take a risk by claiming a scan on a buddy, sure, but i wouldn't jump there as a first assumption.

I thought you said you could never see Han doing that? Am I misremembering?

Huh? No, I didn't say never. I just said it's unlikely, or that it's the riskier play, or not my first assumption, or something like that. I don't recall the exact wording, but I doubt I said never.

Look, I can't really get anywhere talking to the people who are my enemies, though I can hopefully clear up misinformation.

Johnbobb and Sultan and Neablis, you guys are the ones I think are on my side. Do you believe Corrik that I'm manipulating you or whatever? You think maybe this narrative of the "confirmed towns" with "strong power roles" might be a trick? This goes to you too, IGCD, though I'm a bit wary Han scanned you as a buddy, but eh. If so, death is my townie buddy instead.

Look, Han isn't showing a real desire to engage with me.

If I was in his shoes, I'd be happy to see me replace in.

He should be treating me like a new piece of the puzzle to play with - instead I feel I'm being treated like I'm a wrench in his plans and he has to continue to jam me into the puzzle the way he wanted to jam puns.

Corrik posted...

You clearly are leading them. You want them to think it is their idea for the most part. I am not blind.

ah yes, i am a master manipulator.

they've been in the game longer than me, they can think for themselves lol. as town or as scum, my tactic is always to encourage people to do whatever they think is right.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Not looking for Scum where there is none.

weak answer. practically a non-answer. so basically i should be... looking for scum where there are scum. well yeah, no shit.

I didn't realize you thought I was such a bad player, too.

eh? it's nothing about being bad or not, people will generally be risk-averse. whatever you were going for with the cop claim, you can get it by claiming a town scan on a townie. you're good enough to take a risk by claiming a scan on a buddy, sure, but i wouldn't jump there as a first assumption.