Lurker > scarletspeed7

If we can still afford them, I vote The Golden Horde.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Happy Mothers Day!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

voltch posted...

All in press conference has started.

This really feels more important for the industry as a whole.

Any major announcements out of it yet?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Tag. Sounds fun.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

PrestonStarry2 posted...

I'll NEVER forgive Batista for wasting everyone's time winning the 2014 Royal Rumble and then just leaving like that. Regardless of what he's done in Hollywood.

Someone who is literally clueless about what happened there.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

No More Heroes is tough for me for some reason. I'm playing the PS3 version. I may go to Doom for the time being.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I don't think Ulti said anything particularly bad here. Some children on the spectrum will have difficulty understanding that. Certainly not a large percentage. Of course, it's kind of irrelevant to quotes.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Steve Rogers consistently gets some of the best lines in these movies and it's going to be a damn shame to see him go after A4.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Jakyl25 posted...

Single John Cena is dark and mysterious

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdAE2EWWkAAMuhJ?format=jpg&name=small

Do you think that his date to the junior prom will stand him up?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

TheRock1525 posted...

I feel like Drax, being the literalist, would say "what is Gamora?" and go on a small rant about not knowing what species he is.

I can see this working also. I do think "why" makes sense because they are saying, "I'll do you one better," and positing broader and broader questions, so Drax interprets this as the necessary question to ask.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

No write-ups today.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

New Films Gauntlet - Updated with Late 2017, Early 2018, Animation II Dregs, Potpourri: http://www.mediafire.com/file/d5d7a0i5z162avd/Films.zip
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Jakyl25 posted...

Looks like going into Monday, Curt Hawkins streak will be 0-199.

Will they do the big 200 match on Raw, or will it pass quietly on Main Event?

They will, but Charlotte will break the streak and immediately win against Carmella on Smackdown to make it pointless.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Maybe that's why Yano has been pushing his DVD so hard. If only we demonstrated his marketability, Square would include him in the game!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

KH3 confirmed temporary party member? Screw whoever they're putting in from Big Hero 6. I want the Stone Pitbull.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Eddv posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Assumed NBC was picking this up after Netflix and Hulu simultaneously dropped out of the running. Fantastic news!

Can you explain to me why hulu and NBC were even in competition here at all.

Arent they the same company?

They are not exactly the same thing at all. It's owned by several different entertainment empires; the money being shelled out by Hulu for it would technically come from all three or four of them instead of solely NBC itself.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Hey, that feeling when you complete Kingdom Hearts Final Mix and you see this name in the credits:

https://imgur.com/3XGQX4Y
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Jakyl25 posted...

Russo got announced for Starrcast, the convention surrounding All In, today.

The feedback was so negative that he got uninvited within hours.

That's such a great referendum on Russo right now.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Why is Gamora?
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Also, I need Hulu or CW to pick up Lucifer.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Assumed NBC was picking this up after Netflix and Hulu simultaneously dropped out of the running. Fantastic news!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

NFUN posted...

so stop taking things so personally.

I made two posts in this discussion, I don't think you can remotely qualify that as taking anything personally.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

NFUN posted...

i made a short speech about how trying to view media in an objective lens is stupid navelgazing.

I'll keep that in mind when people say Shakespeare is worse than Twilight and under your new world order, I can't disagree.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

I mean, I don't think your comparisons are made with prudence when you compare movies with direct continuing stories to the start of entirely new chapters in dormant series.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

NFUN posted...

And as I said, sure, this could work if it's done intentionally and with prudence for thematic reasons, but TFA goes way overboard.

Well could thing that it was done intentionally and with prudence for thematic reasons.

"Our story has always been a generational one."
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

UInstinctGogeta posted...

Tokoyami posted...

Don't be stupid be a smarty come and join the Nazi party

This was about Republicans.... not liberals. Sorry...

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/ellipses
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

https://screenrant.com/infinity-war-why-is-gamora-drax/

Batista came up with the line "Why is Gamora?" during filming.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Lopen posted...

I don't hold Kharma against Kong. She had like, what, three segments and six vignettes? Whatever.

I'm surprised she's still the champion of anything though-- I'd seen part of one of the more recent TNA women shows from like 2016 or something and she looked pretty broken down.

The promotion is GLOW on Netflix >_>
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

#69 - Awesome Kong Nominated by: Preston


I've always been a fan of a monster with some go power, and that's Awesome Kong. Head and shoulders above anyone else in the women's division of her era, Kong will endure in my memory because when she looked her best, she looked like the type of woman who could be Chyna. Kong seemed like the perfect choice for an intergender character.

What matters most about Kong is that she is the one woman of her stature who can put on a good match. She understands wrestling psychology and she presents those little details that make her character feel real. Her presence alone allows her to nail her gimmick, but her wrestling skills reinforce it. That's why her feud with Gail Kim in 2007 lead to the best women's matches in TNA's history. These two women presented such compelling matches that I think any doubter of women's wrestling in the US would be hard-pressed to decry their work.

Of course, her failed run in WWE is what most people here will remember, and while I've never been entirely sure on the circumstances surrounding it (this is when I had stopped watching for a while), I don't hold it against her. In fact, Kong's only real drawback are her mediocre mic skills. That said, it seems that most bookers recognize the necessity for Kong to be a monster and not a promo-cutter. As it should be. Kong was Nia Jax with actual wrestling prowess and a character that wasn't consistently mishandled. Somewhat mishandled? Sure. But Nia lags behind Kong in almost every respect. Perhaps that's why Kong is currently the champion of the most-watched women's promotion in the world!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Rankings So Far:

150. Jenna Morasca
149. Ashley Massaro
148. The Great Khali
147. Krissy Vaine
146. The Final Solution
145. Rhaka Khan
144. Dave Crist
143. Rosa Mendes
142. Jackie Gayda
141. Matt Taven
140. Jinder Mahal
139. Heidenreich
138. Bryan Alvarez
137. Enzo Amore
136. Dan Matha
135. The Boogeyman
134. Vladimir Kozlov
133. Santino Marella
132. Glacier
131. Muhammad Hassan
130. Torrie Wilson
129. James Ellsworth
128. Nikki Bella
127. Jay White
126. The Shockmaster
125. Hornswoggle
124. Kevin Sullivan
123. Steve Blackman
122. Barry Darsow
121. Taylor Wilde
120. Ronda Rousey
119. Bob Holly
118. Chris Kanyon
117. Vickie Guerrero
116. Chase Owens
115. Disco Inferno
114. Sasha Banks
113. MVP
112. Buff Bagwell
111. The Big Boss Man
110. Heath Slater
109. Scott Norton
108. Charlotte Flair
107. Timothy Thatcher
106. Rich Swann
105. Goldust
104. Matt Sydal
103. Kane
102. Bayley
101. Tommaso Ciampa
100. Tyler Bate
99. Taichi
98. Mark Henry
97. Terry Gordy
96. Booker T
95. Vampiro
94. Ron Simmons
93. Dusty Rhodes
92. Dynamite Kid
91. Road Warrior Hawk
90. Raven
89. Alex Wright
88. SANADA
87. WALTER
86. Lou Thesz
85. Hirooki Goto
84. Chuck Taylor
83. Juice Robinson
82. Andre the Giant
81. Maria Kanellis
80. Hayabusa
79. Josh Mathews
78. Jacques Rougeau
77. Toru Yano
76. Triple H
75. Braun Strowman
74. Kevin Nash
73. Sid Vicious
72. EVIL
71. Perry Saturn
70. Daffney

Remaining Wrestlers:

Adrian Neville
AJ Lee
AJ Styles
Arn Anderson
Asuka
Awesome Kong
Becky Lynch
Big Show
Billy Graham
Bobby Heenan
Bret Hart
Brian Pillman
Brock Lesnar
Bruiser Brody
Chavo Guerrero
Chris Jericho
CM Punk
Dan Lambert
Daniel Bryan
Dave Meltzer
Dean Malenko
Diamond Dallas Page
Eddie Guerrero
Edge
Eric Bischoff
Ethan Carter III
Finn Balor
Hiromu Takahashi
Hiroshi Tanahashi
Hulk Hogan
Hurricane
Jake Roberts
Jeff Hardy
Jesse Ventura
John Cena
Jushin Liger
Kairi Sane
Kazuchika Okada
Kenny Omega
Kota Ibushi
Kurt Angle
KUSHIDA
Lex Luger
Matt Hardy
Mick Foley
Mickie James
Minoru Suzuki
Mister Perfect
Miz
Naomichi Marufuji
Pentagon
Randy Savage
Rey Mysterio
Ric Flair
Roderick Strong
Scott Steiner
Seth Rollins
Shawn Michaels
Shinsuke Nakamura
Steve Austin
Ted DiBiase
Terry Funk
Tetsuya Naito
Tomohiro Ishii
Trish Stratus
Ultimo Dragon
Undertaker
Will Ospreay
William Regal

The Remaining Nominations by User:
Anagram - 2
charon - 2
CybrMonkey - 8
Eddv - 3
Girugamesh - 2
GOGZero - 2
gravy - 1
IHateThisCPU - 1
Inviso - 6
Johnbobb - 5
JONA - 6
Lopen - 4
Mega Mana - 4
NFUN - 1
paulg - 2
Preston - 1
Snake - 4
Tom Bombadil - 4
trdl - 2
voltch - 3
ZeroSignal - 6
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Solioxrz362 posted...

Scarlet, I think you just proved my point. I agree you can compare UFC to WWE. But you can't say that the intervals of using Brock doesn't matter because they're having to bring him back between PPVs just to make sure their main belt stays relevant.

Okay, so now we're talking about two separate things. The relevancy of the belt within the programming and the relevancy of the belt in reality. And what that tells me is this: Roman Reigns is not legitimizing the title or the titleholder. WWE decided at the start of last year that Brock was going to be sacrificed. Here's what happened: throughout 2017, we witnessed Brock return from time to time and destroy his opponents. Prior to this, Brock was thought of as a champion and a major draw. But as time began to run short on his reign, Vince looked to the future of his top title. Brock, with what was perceived as a foot out the door, was not that future. Roman was.

So for a year, Brock destroyed his opponents. Fans at live events didn't boo Brock. Those of us in threads complained about the lack of Brock on television, but we're the jaded cynical kind. I don't take us that seriously.

Where our feigned outrage matters is at the start of 2018. When Roman began to say, "Brock hates this crowd. Brock hates this company. He doesn't care," Roman didn't help himself. Roman hurt Brock. When you bring attention to a less-than-ideal aspect of a worker in your company, you began to hurt their real-life credibility. This didn't get Roman over, but it took Brock down a level. He's a special attraction in the way Hogan was in the beginning of his WCW run. I think I've even heard Eric Bischoff talk about the similarities between how Hogan began in WCW and how Brock works now. Hogan was a successful draw for WCW in terms of seeing a marked increase in attendance on a reduced schedule. These special attractions can be a positive in wrestling - Undertaker is another great example.

When Roman went out and used the "John Cena doesn't care about full-timers" treatment on Brock, it hurt Brock's credibility with fans. When Roman continues to complain about no Brock and a stacked deck against poor Roman and then fails to win, he hurts the momentum of the feud because the fans have decided that instead of supporting Roman, they just won't support anyone.

This is about bad storytelling. In UFC, I can run a hype video to remind people of Conor, I can post a news story about Conor, I can have a guy cut a promo post-match saying that they want to fight Conor at some point. All of these things fill the "interval" (which is the perfect word for it), and keep the title relevant. What doesn't keep the title relevant is some saying the titleholder himself is no longer relevant and then failing to unseat said holder from the top spot and continuing to be the only voice saying anything about the titleholder.

I hope you don't think I'm angry or anything, I just have a real interest in this topic so I, for once, have a lot to say.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Solioxrz362 posted...

I have to finish up an application for a college program now so I won't be able to continue discussing this point but I definitely think you're missing a lot of things and you're making some connections that aren't as simple as you think they are. WWE is hard to compare to a lot of the other things you're comparing them to, just because they have some similarities doesn't mean they are essentially the same in function. And sometimes if you can compare them, the similarities actually show that something like WWE does rely on timing a lot more than you think.

Those little events that Conor appears on are exactly what WWE does with Brock. Brock shows up about 12-15 times in a year, Conor does the same. Conor hypes his fights, Brock does the same (with Paul assistance). WWE is not hard to compare to these things because WWE is basing its usage of Brock on that of a high level fighter in UFC or MMA in general. Paul's creative direction for Brock in conjunction with Vince mandates has always been stated as such by various sources. So yes, I can, in this discussion, compare WWE's usage of a champ to UFC's usage of a champ. It's the same.

And WWE has other titles that it can use to prop up shows without the higher drawing champs, just like UFC, too. Of course, when you have ceased to use event-driven programming in favor of increasing content consumption for future deals, you sacrifice any current business model.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

StealThisSheen posted...

Like, movies get away with going "Movie 1 happened. Then three years passed and now Movie 2's story is happening. Then X time passed and now Movie 3's story is happening" and can either completely ignore the in between or vaguely reference it.

WWE's current model has no "in between." It's literally event -> event -> event -> event -> event. Not event -> gap -> event -> gap -> event. So there's definitely more of a difference than just the interval, and saying writing for weekly WWE is the same as writing for MCU movies seems like a pretty weird comparison.

WWE's current model is not either of those things. Please read up on their latest quarterly report.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

StealThisSheen posted...

I mean, again, WWE can't just do literally nothing for four months without changing their business model pretty heavily like MCU can, so...

There's a pretty glaring difference that you seem to be hand waving for some reason

WWE does literally nothing for four months. It's called September to December in WWE. Just because there is content does not mean there is valued content. WWE currently chooses to drive itself on January through April and again in July through August. These are the months that it pushes as its most active in terms of advertisement and in terms of potential for live show revenue.

When Vince McMahon says, "our competition isn't other wrestling shows. Our competition are the other shows on television," what he's saying is that he compares the success of his product to the success of any other product on television. When WWF was at its height in the Attitude Era, after it was becoming clear that they had beaten WCW, do you know what Vince did in meetings? He pulled out merch sales and compared individual wrestling characters to the merch sales reported for South Park characters. Vince considers his competition to be any franchise built on a successful entertainment IP. So why should I NOT hand wave minor differences? Storytelling is universally simple - you take archetypes, you take Freytag's pyramid, and you build a feud. As long as the feud remains engaging, it can last as long as I want or have as many chapters that consistent of it as I want. Marvel took 50 years of Avengers to make 10 years of films (so far). It's clear that it's the same system - it's build, it's push, it's hype, it's event, and it's payoff. Those are what WWE use as well. The number of films doesn't matter. The results matter. Being caught up in the nuance of how a story is told is why these arguments always fail.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

StealThisSheen posted...

While I don't disagree, it seems like it'd be tougher even for a good writer to keep compelling storylines going if they only advance once every three months and you have to kill time in between, so I think saying it doesn't matter is a bit far.

It'd be like having a TV show where the main character that the show revolves around shows up in episode 1, 8, and then not again until season 3.

Also, you don't get to post this and say, "Oh but while I can compare WWE to regular TV shows, you can't compare it to film."
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

StealThisSheen posted...

Like, the biggest flaw of comparing WWE to the MCU is that the MCU writers don't have to do anything in the four months in between movies. Hell, half the time they don't even reference anything happening. They just handwave it with "Eh two years passed but look the heroes are here"

WWE has to actually fill time every week

Then compare it to the regular Marvel Universe. Or add in the MCU's televised editions. What you fail to recognize is that the intervals don't matter. WWE considers all of its television as filler designed to be infomercials for its PPVs. And now, with the changes in investor presentation, that's not even true. WWE itself is a product with no drive currently. It's designed as a source of content in order to bring in money. It's reaching too big to fail territory thanks to the ever-starving market for content.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Solioxrz362 posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

I stand by that comparing UFC and WWE directly doesn't really work

StealThisSheen posted...

Comparing WWE to movies also doesn't really work

Yes, it does. It's a form of fictionalized entertainment. The mistake you all are making is complaining about various aspects of one industry and failing to recognize that there is no difference. Marvel does what differently from wrestling? It builds characters, creates hype for confrontations, capitalizes on the hype and attempts to deliver memorable bouts in order to sell product and drive more interest.

UFC does the same thing only with the added risk of a shoot fight not working in their favor.

Guess what? It's all the same system. It's all the same principle. If you want to pretend that nuance matters, than you are doing something WWE has never done because WWE doesn't believe in nuance.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

UInstinctGogeta posted...

You DON'T NEED WRITERS!!!!

Dear Christ that's their biggest problem.

The best this company ever was was when you had Vince, Bruce and Pat booking, Kreske doing storyboards, and letting the boys go out and there and ad lib...

It's not a coincidence that since we got "writers" (fuck off Steph) it has been on a continual down hill slow roll....

This isn't some motion picture. You don't need 30 writers. I don't care if they are the best writers in the world, it's still cancer in wrestling.

You need writers. Call them whatever you want, but you need them. But you need 2 or 3. You don't need 30.

Vince's competition isn't wrestling anymore. It's sports and it's entertainment. So you need to be as engaging with action as UFC to satisfy the sports side and you need to be as well-written as the dramas and comedies on television (within reason) in order to satisfy the entertainment side. What this means is quite simple: with a massive roster, you need writing. You need coordination. You don't need word-for-words on every promo, but you do on some. You need them on a lot.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

StealThisSheen posted...

While I don't disagree, it seems like it'd be tougher even for a good writer to keep compelling storylines going if they only advance once every three months and you have to kill time in between, so I think saying it doesn't matter is a bit far.

It'd be like having a TV show where the main character that the show revolves around shows up in episode 1, 8, and then not again until season 3.

Let me tell you the story of the most successful franchise in entertainment right now. They advance the story once every 4 months and make hundreds of millions of dollars each time to critical acclaim. It's called the MCU.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Solioxrz362 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

It doesn't matter if the champion is on every week.

It doesn't matter if the champion shows up once every two months.

Ehhhhhh it might matter to a certain extent, yeah. But you're right that creative direction matters more. Lesnar could have his current schedule if the stories were more compelling and I didn't feel like I'm watching a half-assed Universal Championship program all the time.

I'm going to argue that it doesn't matter to any extent. Conor McGregor defended his title 3 times in one year. He drew like a motherfucker and was universally recognized as the top draw in 2016. At the same time, Mick Foley appeared every week before his title win and single handedly put enough butts in seats to turn around the Monday Night Wars. Then he dropped the title faster than you can say, "Brand-specific pay-per-view". In the Wars, WWF put a premium on making sure the title was making appearances in every show possible. There was build to the title. It mattered. Charismatic workers were telling interesting stories.

Conor McGregor and Steve Austin are the opposite of each other in this argument and yet they did the same thing: drew.

Does Brock draw? Not that much. WWE is the draw now.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

You're not looking at any of this correctly.

It doesn't matter if the champion is on every week.

It doesn't matter if the champion shows up once every two months.

There is only one thing that matters: creative direction. It's the only. Thing. That. Matters.

And you all can fight over the table scraps and argue the Miz is great or AJ is great or whatever. But we all know that none of that matters when you can't convince good writers to work for your company. WWE has a reputation in the business. No one who can make it applies for a writing position there. It's simple. Writers don't want to be beholden to an individual that doesn't seek good stories. He seeks his stories. That's all there is to it. And no amount of "Brock Lesnar isn't showing up, that's the problem!" is going to fix it. You're all arguing about the baby when it's the bathwater you need to throw out.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

CoolCly posted...

i love the 99 but how many seasons does a show really need?

This is a really bizarre post.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Eddv posted...

But then I would have to spend a half hour watching Kassius Ohno

Nowhere near that long of a match.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Go watch the NXT main event from Wednesday between Ciampa and Ohno.

Marvel at how overboard Mauro goes. It's amazing.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

https://twitter.com/gogogajman/status/994724100135309312
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Meow1000 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Apparently they cancelled a lot of millennial-viewed shows and have decided to skew towards an older audience. They're getting Last Man Standing, for example.

Wasn't that an ABC show

Yep.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Apparently they cancelled a lot of millennial-viewed shows and have decided to skew towards an older audience. They're getting Last Man Standing, for example.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

MWC, not every punishment lands someone a title. Baron Corbin is a perfect example from last year.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Started No More Heroes today.
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer

Oh cool, my ranking topic spurred some discussion!
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"Reading would be your friend." ~Dave Meltzer