Lurker > XIII_rocks

Krookldile
Scizor
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Not to be confused with XIII_Stones.

Like 90% I guess

Sometimes some random shows up who I don't know
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pjbasis posted...

I am almost missed a round wtf!? Increase the damn saves!

No fuck off

These things are protracted enough. Make it faster!
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Recently had the same problem with going to the movies alone. Did it anyway, had a good time. Recommend it.
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Stsraptor
Krookldile
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Alakazam
Ampharos
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The seating thing isn't totally bizarre. Certain malls and clubs don't let you in at certain times without a woman with you, and Aspire Park is often family only. I'm not at all surprised they've made that the focus. Trying to be showy about women going is very typical too. My school looked like a hospital until the day before an inspection, at which point it was suddenly painted and glammed up and had pictures and stuff added to the walls. There's a considerable "brush your teeth 8 times before going to the dentist" sort of culture. Many parents want all As on their kid's report just so they can celebrate it and show off about it, even when there's data showing that the kid absolutely isn't anywhere near an A

So yeah both the seating and the deceptive reasoning for it are not surprising whatsoever.
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https://twitter.com/BeckyLynchWWE/status/986421692254867458?s=19
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Oh right

Fuck you guys

Garchomp
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Charizard
Infernape
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http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Shockwave_Stomp?useskin=oasis

Stomp on the ground a lot.

Then,

red13n posted...

die, mostly.

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That's a lot of shit to justify a blatant lack of self-control.

You're not on some moral crusade, you just can't help yourself. That all smacks of justification after the fact.

Also, fucking shocker - trolls say and do horrible shit to get a reaction. Who knew
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But like

You're arguing with a fucking hologram. He isn't a real person. "Vlado" is a created persona. These aren't the genuine thoughts of the man behind the account, and even if they are, the aggressive, antagonistic wording of those opinions aren't. That sort of incendiary wording has been Vlado's trademark as long as he has posted - nearly 15 years, I think. Way before he did politics. But despite people telling him again and again that the reason people are hostile towards him is that awful wording, he has never made any attempts to improve the way he makes points and speaks with people he disagrees with, because why would he? This is what he wants.

I don't think you should abuse Vlado and treat him as less than human in THAT way, that would be even worse than arguing with him. There just should be 0 replies to his topics and posts. Absolute cutoff. If he's genuine (which he isn't, but whatever), and he's hungry for actual debate, he will be forced to change his style and his approach to these things and not feel the need to antagonize people he's arguing with. You may not accept Vlado's opinions, but you're accepting Vlado by responding. Your hounding of him to apologise over Seth Rich was particularly bad. He fucking loved that. Why would he ever apologise for that when he can watch you repeatedly make all-caps posts and laugh himself to sleep over it?

Tl;dr: you might think Vlado seriously thinks these things but you cannot believe he wants actual, serious debate because of how little he has changed despite being given the reason for the hostility towards him. And if you don't believe he wants serious debate why on earth are you trying to have one with him?
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Espeon posted...

LapisLazuli posted...

Honestly don't understand why people continue to treat Vlado like a human.

Because if we dont, then were just like Vlado.

That doesn't make any sense
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I've long had a theory that people with DBZ usernames end up being total clowns so please keep providing evidence

(Boko is the exception. And he's Boko, not MajinZidane)
(Probably another couple of exceptions actually but I've seen more evidence for it than against it)
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https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/16/my-under-10-matches-are-the-worst-no-end-in-sight-to-youth-referee-abuse

What do you guys make of this? Only vaguely related but I didn't want to make an actual topic about it
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https://twitter.com/HEEL_TEM/status/985723782089330688?s=19
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turbopuns2 posted...

dry white completely shut out

Not anymore

I ordered wine at a restaurant for the first time ever last week, and it was pinot Grigio which is apparently dry. So that's my choice
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Charizard
Infernape
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I mean you can't just let a topic purge that has posts such as

LusterSoldier posted...

[Holds up the steel folding chair to block incoming hard drives.]

That's one thing I love about my weapon of choice, it can be used for defensive purposes.

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No

To 500
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Lopen posted...

Eddv posted...

It would be like....running a NASCAR event in Detroit and banning Toyotas. They've been making a push to increase the Toyota presence in the sport for a while now because getting foreign cars invested in NASCAR is good for the long term health of the sport. Hell they have even used the recent ascendance of Toyotas as a way to market the sport. (Im not making any of this up either)

But lets say in Detroit they have a strict taboo against non-domestic cars. Cars are everything there and supporting the competition goes against their whole ethos.

Toyota, Toyota drivers and toyota enthusiasts would be rightly miffed if NASCAR made that decision since it smacks right in the face and against the grain of the recent direction of the company

Much better version of the analogy that I was making btw if you really want to focus in on that, btw, XIII.

The fact that you were comparing WWE to the World Cup and thinking that was a valid comparison to me pretty clearly says that you're not really caring about the hypocrisy as much as I am, and I've made a ton of explicit clarifications to make that clear-- but I mean, you can pretend all I've said is the stupid Nascar thing if you want-- if you want to do that then use this one as your frame of reference instead.

My advice then would not be to make stupid comparisons - the Toyota one makes much more sense
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Jakyl25 posted...

I think its possible if part of your mission there as a company is to get leverage to push for more equality, or subvert it somehow and give people opportunities the government says they shouldnt have and somehow get away with it.

But my guess is that very few, if any, are doing so

Could you then argue that WWE pushing to run Alexa/Sasha in the UAE shows them pushing for more equality in that country? Wouldn't that be "part of their mission" there as a company (even if it is also self-serving)?

And in doing so, isn't that helping to set a precedent that would allow them to get permission to eventually do the same thing in Saudi, especially given how closely Saudi and UAE are linked?
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Charizard
Infernape
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Jakyl25 posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

Any corporation, nation or organisation that has some kind of equality disclaimer on their website or in their official policies ("we do not discriminate by age, gender, race, nationality, sexual preference, etc etc" - that sort of thing) that then has dealings with or opens outlets Saudi/Qatar/UAE is instantly massively hypocritical.

I dont necessarily disagree, although Id need more detail on what exactly women are and arent allowed to do there.

Im just not gonna complain about Saudi McDonalds in the wrestling topic

Well my main thinking there wasn't about women necessarily (though they are part of it) but about nationality. Pay in Qatar for example is dependent entirely on nationality, which is why there are South African teachers 30 years older than me and much better than me on about 2/3 what I make, and Filipinos on around 1/3. That's true nationwide in whatever job you do, so you can't be like Starbucks or someone claiming equality and then open stores in Qatar without being in some way hypocritical.
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Lopen posted...

Hypocritical has always been the word I've been using.

Right, but it's not hypocritical to try to run a NASCAR event with no cars, it's stupid and impossible. They're not betraying some pro-car progressive moral stance by attempting that, they're just doing something that makes no sense and destroys (Not changes, like WWE are doing with the women ban - destroys) their own product. There's no "car revolution".

I don't get why it's a problem to admit that not going is a moral stance. It's weird to call out hypocrisy but then act like all they're doing is being impractical - this makes no sense.
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Lopen posted...

We fundamentally disagree with him in the sense that hypocrisy matters a lot more to us than him, is basically what it boils down to

I don't think that's it, no. I think - if we're throwing around unnecessarily personal moral judgements - it matters more to me, because most of you have brushed off the hypocrisy of other companies that go to Saudi and open stores or outlets there. Any corporation, nation or organisation that has some kind of equality disclaimer on their website or in their official policies ("we do not discriminate by age, gender, race, nationality, sexual preference, etc etc" - that sort of thing) that then has dealings with or opens outlets Saudi/Qatar/UAE is instantly massively hypocritical.

The issue for me has been that, at worst, this basically makes WWE no different to them. If WWE are only paying lip service to a progressive women's revolution and will buckle in their resolve when offered sweet oil money, then these other companies are exactly the same with regards to their approach to equality. So are they all hypocrites and liars? I mean, yeah, it looks that way.
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Uh, ok, you could go there and have nobody from 205 live, or nobody from a recognised tag-team.

Don't get me wrong, it's a more heavily pushed and promoted aspect of the product, but it's still just a division. And honestly the card kind of proves me right. There's a 50-man Rumble match and 7 title matches.

Your typical 205 live broadcast has no women competing in it either. Is it somehow not a real WWE show or the equivalent of NASCAR with no cars?

I mean, if you're arguing it as an issue of practicality more than an issue of morals then you're no longer calling WWE amoral for going to Saudi, you're instead calling them...stupid? Self-sabotaging?
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Eddv posted...

I just think they should have fought harder for the concession that's all.

I do think they could run a female-only supercard the same day and do pretty well too.

Rousey/Brooke
Charlotte&Becky vs The Iconic Duo
Asuka vs anyone

That would draw.

We don't know if they did fight for it. I'd be surprised if they didn't at least float the possibility of doing what they did with Sasha/Alexa.
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Are you going to?
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No, because thats inherent to the product.

The women's division is not inherent to WWE's product. It's a division. You could go there and have no tag matches or cruiserweight matches. We have Smackdowns every week with nobody from the cruiserweight division competing.

Like it's fine if you think they should have not gone on moral grounds - I don't even really disagree, I just think WWE aren't morally lower than thousands of other businesses and nations that have dealt with Saudi, Qatar, UAE - but it is a moral decision to boycott it, not a practical one. They are setting up a women-free, stacked card.
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But that is a boycott >_>

I think if WWE did that they would likely make a statement about it too because they'd want to make it very clear that they showed some principle for once.
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StealThisSheen posted...

It was brought up because this flies in the face of WWE's own marketing and the image they're trying to portray. They market themselves as this super progressive "Women yaaaaay!" company, but then turn around and have one big "But not tonight" event that could have been avoided.

Sure, progressive, but western progressive. The "revolution" in women's sports isn't really in "women's sports" as a whole, it's in "western women's sports". The way women's sport is covered has improved markedly but it's a mostly western phenomenon. You're travelling to a place where that isn't a thing.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

.I dunno, apartheid

Could you imagine, after Wrestlemania 1, WWF going to South Africa and telling Mister T he couldn't go along as well?

Yeah, they absolutely should have boycotted apartheid-era South Africa if that had become an issue. That's the point of my post - apartheid was this specific policy that everyone came to realize was fucking monstrous, but it had a starting point. It was a policy put in place and then taken away.

The Saudi ban on women performing is different because it's inherent to the country itself. It's not something put in place by some government or other that everyone else then sees as disgraceful, it's something that has always been there and that they are taking steps to fix (recent lift of the driving ban, recently had the first female concert, etc). They're slowly moving forward - they should be there already, and they still suck regardless, but they are. Apartheid is a mistake, Saudi is more like...a very slow rate of progression.
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UInstinctGogeta posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Also I really really really wish well-meaning nations would boycott the World Cup in Qatar

MERICA!!!!!

:-(

America have boycotted Russia, not Qatar

And by "boycotted" I mean "failed to qualify for"
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If the West is to lead the world in terms of gender equality, I don't think boycotting is always the way to go, personally. There are some situations where I'd say yeah, boycott it, but I don't think this is one of those times.

I think the difference with Saudi is the whole issue of women competing etc is an issue of progression. Like they will eventually change that, probably before 2030, they're just quite a bit behind. They're making Aramco public specifically to give them even more money which they'll (partly) use to modernize the country. And MBS is not a good guy, but he's changing some of their more conservative shit. So Saudi are actually progressing. This isn't like...I dunno, apartheid, which was a specific time and place which the international community had to reject (and which did get a lot of boycotts, notably in cricket). With Saudi it's more like "this is changing, slowly, so don't fuck your relationship with them now because this won't be an issue forever".
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They're a business making that sweet oil money like everyone else.

I don't know, I guess my problem is picking on WWE specifically here. Any Western nation selling arms to the Saudis is morally fucked, any retail or restaurant company that touts equality and then sets up there is morally fucked. Is any Paris St Germain fan morally fucked for pumping money into Qatar's walking human rights violation of a country? Probably. Am I? Probably.

I'm on board with WWE not doing business with Saudi in general, but there's fucking thousands of businesses that have compromised in much, much worse and much, much longer-lasting ways.

My point basically is once you agree to do business with Saudi, the women thing is pretty easy to justify. You're already deep down the rabbit hole at that point morally. Of all the shit Saudi do that's one of the things I understand (disagree with completely, but understand) the most, to be honest.
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What does "on the table" mean? As in something they consider and then reject?

The next two World Cups are in Russia and Qatar. One nation poisons people in the UK and the other goes against absolutely any equality stance the English might hold themselves to. I can guarantee we won't boycott either tournament, and nor will any other big European nation. Neither will the US.

It smacks of holding WWE to an exceedingly high moral standard. They got offered a lot of money.

Honestly, WWE should boycott Saudi, because fuck Saudi so much, but I don't think this specific reason is super high on that list. And aggressively boycotting them isn't necessarily the way to make progress - given MBS' 2030 vision, if this is still an issue by then I'd be surprised. But baby steps. Women only just got allowed to drive there.
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Something about this one just looks better than the last few. I don't know what it is, maybe the excellent-looking location. But I'm tempted by it where I wasn't with Unity or any others since 3.

I'll probably pick it up in the Summer
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Kiyuyu I think
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Jakyl25 posted...

XIII_rocks posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Right. Saudis wont allow it

Which shows how much the womens revolution really means to WWE

Wait, explain this one to me.

Saudi Arabia is paying major amounts of money to get WWE to come there and give them a big event

But one of their cultural rules is that women cant participate in sports which includes pro wrestling

So no women are allowed on the card

No, I'm acutely aware of that

I just don't know how those two points you made connect. They're doing a show in a foreign country where it's literally illegal for women to perform. Is your point that the women's revolution should be so important to WWE that they boycott Saudi over it?
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Jakyl25 posted...

Right. Saudis wont allow it

Which shows how much the womens revolution really means to WWE

Wait, explain this one to me.
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StealThisSheen posted...

This is stupid and boring and you should feel ba-...

Oh it's mwc no wonder

I know it's MWC but in all fairness the "This is the only way to book this thing and if WWE don't do that then they're stupid" attitude isn't exactly limited to him in these topics
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Also note on the match lengths: I actually can't believe the mixed tag went so long. It felt like the whole match after the first like 5 minutes was the finish sequence.

And like that's part of what made it good but damn. It didn't feel like a 21-minute match. Which I guess is a compliment
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DabiBseU0AAyb7b?format=jpg&name=small

Brauns Dad is cool

Ahahaha

I love this
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You tie HoF to Summerslam instead. Or you put the NXT matches on the WM cards, or the pre-show cards. Or you do HoF and NXT on Friday night at the same arena. Past, then future. There are ways around it.
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I like seeing everyone tbh. I'm not ashamed to say that part of what I look forward to about WM is what they do with the entrances, the "show" aspect of it, all that stuff.

Basically I like almost everything that was there, in theory (obviously Reigns/Lesnar needed to be better), it just got to be an awful lot by the end. You could basically have cleaved this WM in half to prevent that crowd exhaustion. I don't see why they wouldn't at this point if they've shown they can fill seven+ hours of content, including a couple of matches - like Cena/Undertaker - that ran very short.

And it's not just about "filling time" - I think that's the wrong phrase. The roster is full of good wrestlers. Orton is good, Rusev is good, Roode is good...and Mahal is not but fine. They're in a four-way that lasted 8 minutes. Cesaro and Sheamus are really, really good and they're in a joke match that lasted four. You could do three WMs with this roster of talent and then really give them time to produce excellent matches if you wanted to.

(I'm not suggesting three WMs, I'm just saying with the talent they have it's more than possible)
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Jakyl25 posted...

Alvarez pointed out that there was one particularly odd line in Romans promo where he said If you keep putting me in title matches with Brock Lesnar, Im eventually gonna walk out as Champion which, given the rest of the promo, seems meant to imply that hes gonna shoot beat Brock against the script.

The reality angle isnt even grounded in any sort of plausible reality

No, but it's grounded in MWC reality
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Last thing:
Asuka is just the best. Any interview I watch of her makes me like her more. Something kind of genuine about her, idk.
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Also the more I think about WM the more I think they absolutely need to find a way to make it a 2-night show, or start compromising it a bit

I was really enjoying the first half of it, and not just because of the generally better matches in the first half (I guess mostly because of that, but still). It just got too tiring by the end and you have Styles/Nakamura working an exhausted crowd - not saying the match disappointed because of that, but it's part of the reason. Then the main event, which was a disaster anyway but it was even worse because the show was 7 hours long.

Like I was at WM29, a comparatively streamlined show, and Punk/Undertaker exhausted not just me but everyone around us. And we'd been there half the time the audience were at this WM. Again, it wouldn't necessarily have saved

The last great WM was 30, and yes that is because of the streak ending, Bryan winning and generally good-to-great match quality - and the fact that every WM since has been under this weird duress, the conflict over Reigns spilling out into main events - but also because that show was streamlined really effectively. Four big matches, two breather matches and the Battle Royal. That's a very nice, non-tiring structure. You can't do that every time, but I think you could approach something similar to that if you had it over two nights. I reckon since the women have such greater importance now, there's more scope to promote those matches heavily and make them into draws for each night, so both nights have something big. OK, nobody bought a ticket for Nia vs. Alexa, but Charlotte/Asuka and the mixed tag were well-anticipated. No reason you couldn't replicate that, especially with Rousey giving the division more star power for presumably a few WMs now.
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