Lurker > Eddv

Right the more important part for me is the aoe slowing effect.

GANON1025 posted...

May be a silly question, but how does Sonic's health work in Mercs? I notice his writeup says he comes with 999 rings, does that mean he's going on "get hit, lose rings, no rings == death"?

In Frontiers it takes him a half dozen or so hits to lose all the rings but otherwise this sounds roughly accurate.

So you can choose to see Festive fog as draining rings or as just making sonic drunk and easier to hit

AriaOfBolo posted...

Clown Car, rail grind, DK Up-B, Jetpack

So prime sniper fodder x4

Ill also note that Samus does have a fair amount of homing weaponry to help handle sonic with as well as large area of effect weaponry

And if Sonic does come for Zag he can always pop up his aegis shield to block sonic

Ill also note re bowser that he wants nothing to do with crossing that ravine to fight BJ.

SirChris posted...

Mewtwo personality argument is true about hating humans tbh

Will think more later

Heres what Ill say to this:

My team is a cyborg, a suit of alien armor, a greek god with flaming feet and the cyberdemon which is essentially a centaur with robot bits.

Not a whole lot of strong human vibes being given off.

The castle itself gives off strong team rocket vibes though he probably just goes around fucks shit up in their labs and such since thats probably roughly where he starts if you wanna go the route that he even cares about joining a fight he cant win anyway

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Concur on this. About the only way this doesn't happen is if DK pins him down and aims his rocket arm away from the team. Would DK think to do that tho?

Samus is on the enemy team, tbf, and she's a really steep mountain to climb. Sonic is VERY good these days though, agreed.

Area of effect drunkenness effect that my team is immune to and sonic is not which slows him significantly (around 40%)

Well no I am not arguing your dudes are cramped and defenesless, I am arguing they need to come across a ravine via cable cars which will be very hard for everyone other than the instantly dead kongs and sonic. I give DK and Sonic credit to use the cables themselves to get across but bowser is screwed and really DKs weight may simply destroy the cables and force him to ascend up a very steep and sheer cliffside.

As for Cyber demon allow me to reference again, he takes 371 chainsaw strikes from Doomguy (courtesy of doom wiki) to take down, and Bowsers having his own problems so hes still gonna be a huge issue here and take time to handle.

Time in which the big bois and sonic are getting sniped at which will force a shift in approach.

Shouldnt DK only be at +250% because Mewtwo isnt on his team?

So this week's match is a pretty simple set up - we are still at Castle Wolfenstein, or Castle Cablecars as mistaya put it.

First things first - Mewtwo is beginning either deep in the castle or floating over the ravine. Odds are Mewtwo, who is a very solitary creature by nature, simply fucks off. She might be drawn to the challenge of showing its supremacy over the physically impressive ape...but in all likelihood just goes away.

My team is much the same as last week.

There are a few key differences however, for one our boy BJ has gotten some surgery done and now has a cool cyborg body. He also has some more even longer ranged weaponry in the form of RPGs and an honest to goodness sniper rifle backed up by the nazis signature plasma rounds that can usually one shot normal humans in a single blow even to the body.

We also have a new teammate in Zagreus from hades. In this loadout he has the Bow of Hera which in addition to being a fairly long range shot, can deliver spells and their effects at a distance too. This is important because Zagreus in this loadout is a walking talking debuff machine - his spell creative a festive fog, which gets its targets drunk/hungover which in game is basically a damage over time debuff but you will not he also has Dionysus' passives, so this fog also slows anyone in it to half speed. Except on my team I have one person in an airtight suit, a cyborg, a cyberdemon who is immune to non direct damage of any sort and Zagreus who is not only immune to it, he is actually given a signficant damage resistance buff. It also causes the drunkenness to be contagious, so if DK is drunk, odds are Sonic is too. Zagreus also has Aphrodite's attack and call, this causes Weakness or a 30% decrease in strength for DK and sonic, while the fog is making them 40% slower. In addition, he also has access to her call, which if she hits it, momentarily charms even the top level gods like Hades, and both Sonic and DK have a long history of being led astray by feelings of love and lust so I suspect they may be a bit more vulnerable than that. Finally, he has the poseidon special, which on his shield attack he can captain america out, he can use to push his foes which could be useful for delaying sonic or DK or knocking them back off the cable cars and into the ravine.
If things get harry, Zag can literally hold up the shield and be immune to most attacks.

Samus is here today with her Prime Hunters load out, which gives her a) her longest range guns and b) a gun which similarly has a knockback effect and she is still every bit the all around bad ass that she was.

Why is it important all 3 of them have long range attacks with fairly devastating effects? Because Cyberdemon starts in front of Team DK. The cyberdemon will be immediately be confronted by a Bowser who is so scared of BJ that he's not thinking straight and diddy kong. Cyberdemon is triple tough, taking 45 rockets to the chest at point blank to take down. And he comes with what looks an awful lot like original Doomguys BFG strapped to his arm, so being prone is really no issue for just destroying small monkeys and bowsers. So they have this big angry, apparently very fast demon in their start zone with them. He is also very LOUD, famously his scream is so loud it can be heard anywhere on the map during Doom, which I think he would obviously do once engaged in combat, thus alerting team long range guns (and bow) to the situation. In all likelihood, one of the two of Sonic and DK is gonna have to stay back and deal with the cyberdemon and given theyre both unarmed and it takes Doomguy 371 chainsaw strikes to take him down, this fight is not likely to be a short one. And if they ignore him, he is firing 3 rockets every few seconds at their backs, which won't go well either.

These things taken together and that even under the best of circumstances, Team Cartoon is still have to cross a ravine on cable cars (or cable grinding in sonics case) while debuffing and repositioning long range weaponry and powerful sniper rounds come at them.

All in all, there aren't a lot of ways even this big ape can pull this off.

Tl; dr - I have a nice number of debuffs to slow down and disorient both sonic and the ape, my team has very good long range weapons and the cyber demon is very loud and very tough allowing my team to make use of them

I think I buy into pamela surviving gordons ability to create 1 on 1s via terrain manipulation

Gordon Solos

I think I buy the reraise and buy Pamela getting away which makes this intriguing

I think in the end though, Pamela speed debuffs make it so Aigis just really has no shot here even with a raise or three.

BUT with that time stop pamela is toast and so is gordon in all likelihood with the big Sypha assist.

So for me this comes down to *can Raiden solo with Ouroboros active*

And I dunno.

Lopen posted...

I also think if the teams engage Rika dies first so the amount of useful information Rika gets will be little-- not sure why it's super useful to begin with.

Right people seem to assume rika is eventually gonna be able to mastermind something here and I think thats giving her a bit too much credit.

MJF
Saraya
Wardlow
The Gunns
The Elite
Starks
Page
Perry
Death Boyangle.

Especially since like BJ just has to move to the snipers outpost to see the enemy team in plain view, why not take some shots?

KamikazePotato posted...

Mega Man with redos

The odds are stacked against them. Focusing down Samus instead of BJ is entirely to their detriment. They only need to get it right once, though, and I think they'll get a lot of redos. Nothing about Samus' ability prevents them from planning or waiting, and MM's team is overall trustworthy enough that they'll listen to a teammate telling them they should really, really do things this way.

Basically if they clutch it out 1/1000 times they win.

You think they get 1000 replays?

Hbthebattle posted...

Admittedly Samus is also missing most of her offensive arsenal. It's really just power bombs and i guess shinesparks.

And dat screw attack in a pretty vertical terrain bay bay

No

Chandlers massive body shape changes

Its that shes got insane tanking feats with her lightning armor, has bullet time if she needs it and as of Metroid dread is dodgy as fuck.

And BJ has a laser that homes, stuns, and is extra deadly vs robots.

And does this:

https://youtu.be/ZdbK7ANStjc?t=512

MajinZidane posted...

I'm pretty sure Mega Man just wants to help his friends and will do what he needs to. No chance is he scared to take a leap of faith.

PLUS Mega Man has Rush. He can literally escort people down the ravine. If Rika says it's the only way, there is no doubt in my mind that he uses Rush with his friends

Theres also really nothing stopping BJ from sniping them when they try that or stopping Samus from doing the bombing run in that situation either.

Theyre still able to look down the cable car causeway and see whats happening and see their foes.

trdl23 posted...

Yeah I think Rika is taken seriously by everyone but Leon -- at first. Leon will take her seriously after she ends up being right.

Right but keep in mind Leon doesnt see the repetitions only Rika does. He has no idea if shes right

I mean "hey we should be careful using the cable cars" is a bit different than "we should dive off this cliff" which looks like just about the last thing you would wanna do here. Kiryu may have a loli-induced death wish but Leon and Rock dont.

This is a good point - Rikas gonna need teammates that take her seriously.

Leon and Kiryu are very pro kid but theyre not necessarily gonna believeher especially as her prescribed strats get increasingly bonkers (like jumping down a pretty deadly looking sheer drop to go looking for a hidden passage Im still not convinced they ever decicde to go looking for without Rika repeatedly biting it trying to survive the precipitious drop.)

MajinZidane posted...

Yes

See even boko agrees

Right the fact is rikas using up a lot of rewinds just on "dont use the cable cars" and other failed ideas at getting across the ravine before they even land on anything close to resembling a useful gameplan. Theres a serious chance this party wipes before landing on anything close to an ideal game plan considering even if they DO find the secret entrance, the castlr is full of hazards and such

What it sounds like is everything needs to go PERFECT for team Rika and theres a lot of reasons it might not

KamikazePotato posted...

I really don't think Mega Man teleports ahead for no reason. That doesn't fit the ability description at all.

Well its not no reason, its bold text.

Also re: Samus, its arguable I thik that she can just rematerialize the suit with no arm inside it and still use her aiming agnostic weapons like the rockets and charge shots.

MajinZidane posted...

I don't know if I would describe them as sitting ducks when they'll have perfect information via Rika passive do overs, Mega Man teleport, and Samus wondering where her arm is when trying to use the cannon.

Worth noting that BJ does have sniper capability with the laser as I said.

KamikazePotato posted...

Samus as of Dread has some melee range expertise. Not a lot, but some. If nothing else she's tanky enough that she would be a persistent annoyance just by existing. Honestly getting tackled by a Chozo suit speed boost would really hurt everyone on this field except Mega Man.

Agreed thats not shown on my boss fight vs the Raven beak but its not as though she is helpless is melee.

Especially since this is a hybrid between her dread and returns selves where the lightning armor extends her melee range.

Really just gonna no sell BJs specifically anti robot gun that again he barely even has to AIM at mega man

I conveniently posted a picture!

And Samus can you know, see. Activate lightning armor so she doesnt get shot, drop bombs, return.

Rikas probably not surviving all that long here her rewinds are of minimal help here. Its only via her that mega even thinks to engage in zany starts that wont even help much

Ok so Mega Man doesnt have to climb up the terrain but hes still going against a samus he cant kill and a BJ with a gun that homes at him and is especially good vs. machines and which basicslly stun locks him.

Right but one team is at the bottom of the ravine and having the go up as sitting ducks in a cable care while BJ and Samus can use cover and BJ doesnt even have to because Samus is so cool.

Right and Mega Man himself is poorly suited to deal with BJ because the Laser literally has a homing effect vs mechanical opponents and deals way more damage vs machines and hes not exactly thr most dodgy, especially not riding on Rush

tl;dr bokos team has to cross a ravine in cable cars vs a sniper and someone who can drop bombs on the cable cars dropping them into the ravine below and otherwise giving them a bad time.

BJ also cant be targeted til samus is dead and with lightning armor is hard to kill.

So the most important thing to lay out in this match is how insanely good it is for my team as a team with the ability to fire guns at relatively long range.

Here is a picture taken from the attackers starting point where you can see the castle and the giant ravine they have to cross, most likely in cable cars.
<img src="https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/8/AAR9yWAAEPQ6.jpg">
<img src="https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/9/AAR9yWAAEPQ7.jpg">

You can see how long it takes to get up and down via cable care here but its a good 5-10 minutes eveny for a speedrunner. All Samus has to do is drop s power bomb in there at any point and destroy the cable car sending Rika Kiryu and Leon to their deaths minimum. Thanks to Rikas ability, Rock Man here probably at least knows hes gotta deploy rush at some point in here but still.

https://youtu.be/mDqClwXMu-s?t=1899

My team has pretty good visibility down the ravine as you can see here.

BJ has a number of longer range options with his 4 machine gun options, his assault rifles but the key one is his LazerKraftWerk.

Fully Upgraded this thing is an absolute menace for bokos team - its strobe effect creates a disorienting flashbang effect. The Tesla effect actually bends it TOWARDS robots and power armor so if Mega Man decides to fly up on Rush this things just gonna home on him and destroy him. He doesnt even need to aim that well. Its also got a targeting scope that lets it be used as a sniper weapon. It can bounce off a surface meaning even if it hits the cable car cover it can just bounce off and still find its target.

Here it is in action
https://youtu.be/WFCYAd0A8uQ

Samus is here left handed. As we know, gun is on the right arm of the suit but isnt literally her right arm. She can put the cannon her left and while I grant that that isnt ideal and she cant steady the arm cannon Samus has two different sources of homing rockets on this build (base from Dread and a second set from her custom). She also literally doesnt need them here. She can fly and has bombs she can launch, one which literally creates a black hole and draws in and destroys smaller (aka human sized) targets and the other of which is just a big explosion which is gonna be a "bad time" in those cable cars.

Samus is also drawing any and all offense the enemy musters allowing her to draw all that firepower from mega man. From Samus Returns, she has the ability to use Lightning Armor, which makes her impervious to damage. She is also VERY dodgy as you can see in this boss fight from metroid dread.

https://youtu.be/G4SxwFMYl_g

With BJ having free reign to do what he will, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD he has managed to shoot bokos entire team to death before the get up the chasm. If they do get close Samus has the short range and homing weaponry and the short term invincibility to allow BJ to again just destroy people - as if he has to he can use the laser in fully automatic mode or switch to dual wielding machine guns or triple barrel shotguns.

Yes

If theres one avenue of attack I believe Raiden is susceptible to, its psychic attacks.

So to me the question is mainly "can 4X DK hold out decently well vs Raiden long enough for that to happen"

But then I remember Gordon is here
Team Raiden

Pittsburgh

ZeeksFire posted...

Well, if he does Luminaire, it's probably just as bad, since Elemental+Lightning, any damage that is done via the Heritage Liberator is negated by the Luminaire. Cloud is taking all of squat from the dual tech.

Eh?

ZeeksFire posted...

I'd say that the dual tech fails, because Crono derped out and doesn't know Luminaire anymore in pre-battle. (Technical thought, Pre-Battle amnesia negates start of battle ability due to losing lightning spell.) Also I don't see any downside from either side in Tingle casually dying. Will think on things more when at work.

Bold is law.

He does Luminaire.

You could even argue that using Luminaire reminds Crono that he is Crono if you believe that is "sufficient evidence" of who he is, thus breaking the effect. ((Remember clouds is broken by seeing a picture of his younger self, so its not exactly this super duper high threshold))

I also dont think it matters TOO much here

Question would the uranium death shroud thing negatively effect teammates forced to stay in a small box with the robot? How about Tretij or Eli or whoever the fuck is physically piloting the thing?

Because I honestly might be inclined to say "Dungeon is made of magic and doesnt break and the thing is stuck in the room they spawn in"

Would camping slowly kill Liquids team?

anyway I think this is where I miss some of the hard and fast terrain rules we had on some older terrains like this because this was a very clever pick by JC where I could see like all sorts of bad outcomes for the giant dumb robot