Lurker > Lopen

Notice how hb and Sultan won't vote each other despite previous misgivings and rage

I wish I was Roshan he's Nashor spelt backwards what a badass.

Also if Roshan is the third party I would see him being survivor anyway. Def not serial killer. Pretty town harmless. Not a priority to kill over scum. We kill Ulti now are Sultan and hb just gonna magically become townish? Probably not. Best to make a meaningful decision rather than last minute pivot to Ulti

Flavor and function. Third party having a no vote stun just makes the most sense.

Ramza

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


For the record that was caught for the wrong reasons and I would have said that as town!

Anyway I think ulti is third party but I think third party is a bad day one lynch as it gives no game solving material as town and scum both want it dead

We leash him and let him continue to Roshan stun Han

Ulti is a cop out lynch. Sultan or Hb it must be one

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Oh, it's not in jest. At this point, I think it's just clear you're lying when you keep me on your Scumlist.

It's less I'm lying and more I lack conviction in #4 relative to #1-#3.

Lea is a vote you make when you want to force yourself into the thought that there can only be one Miller and want to believe Kirby. That's the extent of the logic I see there. It's bad logic. You need to improve it or the vote is meaningless.

It also prevents Kirby from being properly the ultimate Miller. If you believe Kirby's claim you should be more likely to believe 2 Miller setup than not.

ctesjbuvf posted...

By all means do attempt to explain to me why this works for Lea.

Lea has been driving lynches and conversation in a coherent way (general town vibe established) and counterclaiming Kirby would be a dumb move as scum

I never said Sultan lied about what he thought I said he lied about what he did

Just figured I'd explain why you're using it in jest differently than I would in case you weren't sure

Lea vote is weak. Do better.

Obellisk posted...

does that perk you up?

Very much

If nothing else vote Sultan because he's had more natural resistance to his lynch than hb has.

If only one of the two is scum it's Sultan no doubt.

Those vote totals bring me profound sadness

Kirby claimed Miller first post of the game. I guess I give him more credit than to not be bamboozled on a thing he went hard on immediately.

Plum in contrast yes had lightly considered it but two things

1. He wasn't committed to the claim at any point until pressure came. Kirby was. There would naturally be more pressure.
2. He was sabotaged by the game style at some level. Our fake build your own roles didn't have the amount of detail legitimate role PMs have. That wouldn't be the case in this game.

This is my answer. Han mostly speaks to point 2.

ctesjbuvf posted...

read here was kingmaker where Plum claimed gladiator as scum people were asking him tons of questions he hadn't considered at all

Han scumbuddy of yore care to elaborate for me on why this situation is different.

Also removing the claim from the picture I think Kirby has had a townish vibe. Which does matter.

I don't want to answer your question as I have strong town reads on both and it's pointless exercise.

Anyway if you want me to elaborate on why I think Kirby is town

As a scum claim I don't think he has so many holes in understanding the nuance of his role-- he would have had the details of a planned fakeclaim ironed out well before making it, which is why I asked for so many details and him simply not knowing the answers felt more townish. I also felt that a Miller existing that not only has a Miller counter in the setup, a weird flavor name, and an anti-town ability, that sounded like the kind of Miller I'd put in a game.

I had the theory before you (speaking to ctes) said it out loud but wanted to see how others were taking it rather than clouding the waters, as he seemed like such an easy trap lynch that I knew some scum (Corrik and hb) would probably overextend to drive the lynch home and I was hoping a town member would come to the conclusion it was a trap role too.

So my questions were to help me determine that-- you didn't see the evolution of my thoughts cause I felt no need to narrate them but that's why I asked him a lot of mechanic questions.

I don't think he looked good this morning that is meant to say. Sorry rapid posting on mobile during busy work day.

That was "baiting content" as Han said btw.

Scum Sultan would thrash and fake thoughts about things

I am not sure if it was successful or he would have done it either way but I don't think he. In particular the post I quoted early this topic seemed real bad to me

htaeD posted...

I'd like a response to this.

From me?

I don't know why I'd call someone town who I said "supposedly caught up"

Tl;dr it doesn't scream that.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Common sense and general experience dictates that people will dedicate more time to the game of Mafia when they are being accused, regardless of alignment.

When it's basically 0 time when not accues it's suspicious though

I have scummoned him 3 times so far

htaeD posted...

Also how do you deal with Sultans 'excuses' for not posting much, Lopen?

I notice there's a pattern where he constantly has time to play when he's put to the flame.

At some point you have to think he's faking it and it's not just a coincidence that I can pressure him every time he has time to play.

htaeD posted...

Lopen after all that Corrik talk I hope you are not fully serious there

What Corrik talk. This is much better than his dumb cult leader theory.

Ulti is Roshan due to how he's been playing the game. Kirby being cult leader doesn't fit how he's been playing the game.

But no interest in lynching him.

Unharassed not unheralded. Stupid autocorrect

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It's not the clever way to pull more information out. It's just throwing punches at that point

I pulled information out by backing off and letting him play the game unheralded for hours.

He chose to go back to idling as he did before I pressured him.

I'm not calling him a liar to bait him into burying himself more I'm calling him a liar because evidence suggests it and I want to convince others he is, or have them bury themselves by pretending to get worked up and swearing at me.

Here is why Ulti is Roshan

- Keeping his head down. Survival tech 101. Ulti as town or scum has more flair.
- Roshan detects invisible units. Ulti wanted to confirm himself town with this ability as it is unique. He decided faking it as an item would be best because no hero can do that
- He probably had another item in mind to fake than the observer ward that he was going to counter Kirby with and that's why he hinted it, but with sentry ward in the game jumped at the ability to tie himself to town things because survival is paramount. I also think he only thought Kirby being lynched would make him look good if Kirby was scum and he probably got some doubts.
- Roshan detecting invisible units means He would be able to kill a sentry ward for gold, which fits.

Ask Ulti to give his observer ward to anyone in the game. He probably won't be able to.

Take all the meta away and you still have a very clear picture of Ulti going for survival and little else. Third party for sure.

See guys I can scummon Sultan super easy he's not too busy to claim if he gets a lot of votes on a lynch. Vote him without fear

Ulti is Roshan

Kill him if you really want that divine rapier otherwise let's get scum

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Sure you can. Why are you lying about this?

It's easy to think you're clever without understanding

Hbthebattle posted...

Did you ignore the part where I said Death felt like he wasn't taking many hard stances

Nope. You would be better served to show evidence within this game though if it really is a thing. Referring to another game feels like you're just trying to coast on a vague argument.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Then gun at him for that. If you're Town, you'll do that instead of just trying to shut him down by calling him a liar.

I am gunning him for that you're just trying to make me saying liar a big meanieface thing to say for some reason. It's literally the same thing.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

What's the point of lying about reading up on the shop? What's the fucking point?

To fake a reason to not actually comment on anything that matters but still supposedly be following the game?

This is like, basic scum play. You being so incredulous about this feels like you're setting up Wifom to tie too hard to Sultan when one of you flips scum. I cannot believe this is an authentic reaction to what I'm saying.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

accusing someone of lying about basic actions just disincentivizes people.

If you're going to say you read the game and then say nothing about the game then I couldn't care less if you're disincentivized to say you read the game. You may as well have not read it if it has nothing worth talking about to you (or if youre going to get things outright wrong).

My issue with Sultan isn't whether he's done the things or not as much as his constant need to announce that he's currently doing the things and then not actually showing any sign he's done them when he says he does.

Like a very good way to be idle as scum is to pretend to be overwhelmed by the content coming in

I've seen a lot more to suggest Sultan is that than legitimately overwhelmed. If you're legitimately overwhelmed there tends to be some sort of action or evidence that you've done the thing when you get through it all. Sultan has done none of it except when I've pressured him to do so. And even then it has been suspect. Do you REALLY think he did an iso of me based on what he said? I don't. And if he didn't why lie about it.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Hey Lopen, stuff like "he's lying about looking at the shop" or "he's lying about catching up" or "he's lying about being busy" is like, lame. Don't do that.

Okay but why not.

He says he's doing things but makes no indication that he'd done the things

Why say you're looking at the shop and have nothing to say about it
Why say you're catching up and say nothing about what you caught up on
Why do an ISO on me then have nothing to say about my posts aside from things related to you and/or are wrong

Neither the timeline on what he says he's doing (if he was still catching up, why jump to the shop which was the most recent post) nor the follow-up actions line up with what he's claiming he's doing, ergo likely lying.

It's bold but do you feel it is accurate? I'm always wary of opinions that say "such and such is playing like they did in this other game" as their primary driving point.

htaeD posted...

I am also in part uncomfortable with a Sultan push considering he said he would be very busy today. Though I dont think that means he wont post at all.

He said this but he posted quite a bit this morning.

Now on the one hand that did make him less lurky but it's only after he had been raked to the coals that attempts at content had occurred

If we vote him enough he'll scummon anyway if history serves

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Lopen, I know you are saying you think Sultan is Scum, but why did you remove your vote from Hb?

My suspicion on hb is largely stemming from interactions or lack thereof with you and Sultan

I have more confidence in Sultan as scum by a comfortable margin

People really need to stop calling Sultan low hanging fruit btw.

I've engaged him as scum aiming for a mislynch and now town aiming for a correct lynch (and a good case laid out imo) and no success either time.

Sultan is a tough lynch whether he's town or scum.

Go read topic 2 posts 251 to 300 I'm begging you. Tell me that that's town Sultan.

Han are you reading the game or are you skimming

Corrik7 posted...

If this were true. Lol. Then why was I town to you until 2 pages ago. Did my initial reaction just come up on a like 36 hour lag for you? Sad or bad.

Topic 2 post 226

Corrik7 posted...

All millers get usually considered as town confirmed, no matter how many. So, it wouldn't be a very good lesson. It's why its funny how little balls our scum players on our board have to claim it.

Topic 2 post 256 I react to it

Lopen posted...

This reads like Corrik being frustrated as scum that the super miller claim might be allowed to live

Maybe I need a ??? stack on my list. A few people I'm not sure about.

Corrik is tilting because I just identified his whole team don't take it personally Lea.

Seriously though look at how he reacts to the Miller claims initially, saying that it's a townconfirm and scum doesn't have the guts to do it.

That's a perspective slip.

I wanted to join the Lea Kirby masonry but I guess I can be in the sbell masonry

You agreed with my take on Sultan's hostile reaction to being called out on inactivity not making sense if he was town

You also suggested there might be two millers quickly when people were clamoring about it being a counterclaim

Han suspected you early and iirc you got the better of the exchange

Had me high on a town list (pocketed!!)

There is other stuff but those come to mind immediately

My read is Corrik is godfather which is making him even more annoyed at this.

Corrik's frustration with Miller claim townclearing is palpable. He is probably whining to Isquen about a two Miller setup being imbalanced as we speak

I dont have time to go through the game to argue with scum about a townread today. I'll be more inclined if he gets any sort of lynch traction