Lurker > Metal_DK

Jakyl25 posted...

Wanglicious posted...

nobody's making a big fuss asking for parity in any of those fields that are 55-92% female, why is it an issue when it's men?

They don't get the sexy mainstream coverage, but this does happen.

There are fights to end stigmas against, say, male nurses or male secretaries that keep men from pursuing those jobs

If they become lucrative, they will
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

foolm0r0n posted...

It's only when there are enormous social pressures and biases that overcome greed that you see big inequalities. Tech in the US has a huge "nerdy" aspect to it, which our culture deems inherently male.

And it doesn't in India?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

foolm0r0n posted...

India has like 40-50% women in CS fields BECAUSE it is by far one of the most lucrative fields.

Did you even think to verify your theory against a single other data point or do you just enjoy coming up with nonsense?

No. They have 40-50% of women in CS because they want a path to independence, which is admirable. Its why women in Iran are the majority of stem grads these days. Also, stem positions in India get paid a lot less than people realize. Its like maybe 450,000 rupees/year, which isnt much.

Women in stem rates are at their lowest in many Scandinavian countries. Why? Because they don't need to enter the field.

http://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Job=Software_Engineer_%2F_Developer_%2F_Programmer/Salary
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Meh, outside of the vlado crap i actually liked the discussion ITT. Ty for this
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

MenuWars posted...

Metal_DK posted...

MenuWars posted...

This is basically the problem with the new social media society we have though, it's very easy to find echo chambers, or simply lambaste anyone with a differing opinion to your own and think of them as troll without ever actually considering what they're saying.

When would you say this new social media society began if you dont mind me asking?

Whenever twitter started, before then it was still mostly emails and keeping in contact via facebook or loool Myspace.

Certainly the point of it becoming huuuuge was when the first smartphones came out.

:)

For the record the first smartphones were in the early-mid 90s, at least that was when the term was first used. But I know what you mean by "first smartphones"
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Jakyl25 posted...

Do you think this is something that can be recognized and pushed back against? Or do you think it's pointless to do so and instead we just need to keep on top of nasty side effects?

I think if the government starts to legislate things like "women must be 50% of google coders by 2025" or some crap, we got a problem.

I'm all for anyone pursuing what they want, as long as you are not harming others. Man, woman, whatever. If you are woman who wants to be president, go for it. I mean for the record I thought Hillary was bad, but a significant amount better than fucking Trump and thus voted for her. I would like more than 2 parties to do well though.

But people at their core want to be liked. Its why people love writing facebook posts, tweets, etc. Its why the Casual Revolution of 2007 exists to the extent that it does.People don't want to be alone. Since most of us are heterosexual, we want to be with a member of the opposite sex. Which means we will have to do things they want us to do. It seems like that across all socioeconomic levels, women have a higher standard of career in their potential husband than the other way around. THAT is what needs to change to get 50% diversity across the board everywhere.

As long as there is added incentive for men to be "more powerful" than women, its going to happen.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

MenuWars posted...

This is basically the problem with the new social media society we have though, it's very easy to find echo chambers, or simply lambaste anyone with a differing opinion to your own and think of them as troll without ever actually considering what they're saying.

When would you say this new social media society began if you dont mind me asking?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

pjbasis posted...

I agree, and I get the whole premise of sexual selection and evolutionary biology playing into that.

What's the final point here though? This seems like obvious enough that I'm still waiting to get to the punchline, unless I missed it.

Men are more likely to go into coding not because we are "biologically" better at it (maybe we are, maybe we aren't. There is some evidence for both tbh). Its because the big money moved into computer science sometime in the 80s, it became a more stressful environment because everyone is trying to get that next big app out.

Women were more likely to be coders in the 70s and earlier, because the big money wasn't in computer science yet.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

pjbasis posted...

Are you suggesting that the relationship of a career between a man or woman isn't a social construct then?

I'm suggesting that the career for a man makes him more attractive in the eyes of women, and its not because "women dont have the good jobs yet" (again, childless millennial women out earn men). Its due to sex appeal, which for the most part is biological.

Both men and women need a career to be as financially independent as possible. Men also seem to need one to be attractive to women. Women dont. Even women who are doctors, lawyers, business executives have a higher demand for their spouse's career choice/path/etc.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yes, but should that be the case? Like...the point isn't what is. The point is what should be, because that's what informs policy going forward.

The only way to change it is to change what women find attractive in men. Men have no power in that. The gender roles exist primarily due to the romantic and sexual desires of the opposite gender. The whole "men enforce the male gender role" might be true in like....middle and high school (maybe college too these days tbh). But after that puberty era of people's lives it tends to be based around doing what maximizes your chance to get dates, romance, casual sex, happy wife/husband, stable family life etc. You tend to care most about who you wake up next to in the morning, and thats your husband/wife, not your college drinking buddies.

You cant get rid of a "patriarchy" through gov't legislation. It has to be done at the stable family unit level. There is really no evidence that the stay at home dad is attractive. Even in these Scandinavian countries that are praised for their gender equality, only like 15% of stay at home parents are dads. And I'm pretty sure their government pays them to do it.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Mr Lasastryke posted...

uh, even if this is true this hardly seems like a super hot issue that gets debated constantly by both sides. even if right-wing people end up being right about it more often i don't think it's fair to say "the left is massively feels over facts on this."

If you go against the concept of "everything is the exact same between men and women its all social constructs" attitude the left tends to get pretty pissed off in my experiences, and become pretty "feelz". Maybe its younger (say under 35 or so) left leaning people, but as somebody whose in his early 30s I've experienced it everytime I have brought it up.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I actually hit upon this on page 1 bro. The problem is that this is the case but it doesn't necessarily have to be. If pursuing status is desirable then it should be desirable for women as well over being pretty or whatever else you think is their current paradigm. If it's undesirable for men then we should work to achieve parity on that as well. But you shouldn't just assume it's biotruths and roll with 'men work, women are pretty' and never waver from that.

I never once said its not desirable for women. Its just more desirable for men. I will never tell a person (man, woman, whatever we are these days) not to pursue what they define as "status". Hell I'm a coder, and I'm a major reason why my sister got into coding (she has since moved to product management but still), as she couldn't find a job better than $13/hr with her English degree (working for a woman who we later found out tax dodged numerous times).

However a failed man who doesn't achieve is much more likely to be casted out to the dustbin of society than a failed woman. Its why male unemployment is the number one sign of divorce (see below, and this echos the stuff I have done with marriage and divorce records at my job), and some studies have shown that a woman who loses her job can strengthen the marriage.

http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/07/husbands-job-predicts-divorce.html
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Jakyl25 posted...

Metal_DK posted...

But i do think the left is lying to these men about this, and the one thing I agree with the manifesto on is that the male gender role is much less flexible, if at all. Its one of the only things I think the right understands more than the left.

Would absolutely be willing to probe this idea more. Could you go into more detail?

I will but I'm at work right now and can do so more effectively later tonight. I'll try to do so then
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Mr Lasastryke posted...

Metal_DK posted...

But there are some key concepts that the left are massively "feels over facts" than the right on,

like what?

Everytime I bring it up I get yelled at, but I think the right acknowledges that a career is more important to a man's health than a career is for a woman's health. I have gotten in numerous arguments at holidays dinners/get togethers/etc about this. I argue that its because men pretty much get 2 options in this world: work or prison. Women, at least post WW2, get 3. Work, prison, stay at home mom/wife. There are very few women who will put up with a stay at home husband, and it has nothing to do with "once women have the "good" jobs they will!". As evidenced by (what i mentioned earlier that nobody read), that childless millennial women actually outearn men in just about every major city in the USA, and the same thing was the case for gen x women in their 20s/30s. Instead of women celebrating their new options of their success, left leaning sites write this:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/3bj5yv/youre-single-because-there-arent-enough-men-253

This "manifesto" thing is honestly missing out the most key point. First off, plenty of women were coding (or doing the equivalent of) in the earliest days. It was only after it became the most profitable industry was when it became "male". Its because money was there. Men chase money. Why? Is it because we're greedy assholes? Maybe some of us sure. But a lot of it has to do with men have to define themselves through their work more than women have to.

Does it mean harass Leslie Jones on twitter? No. Does it mean vote for Trump? Nope. Defund planned parenthood? Another straw man. But i do think the left is lying to these men about this, and the one thing I agree with the manifesto on is that the male gender role is much less flexible, if at all. Its one of the only things I think the right understands more than the left.

And honestly, I think all those things (and gamergate too!) exist BECAUSE men are being lied to about this.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Mr Lasastryke posted...

Metal_DK posted...

This. Both "ends" of the political spectrum are all about feelz. Its stupid to put one over the other on that subject.

last election the republican candidate was lying way more than the democratic candidate. i think it's fair to say that republicans are more "feels over facts" than democrats at the moment (if they haven't always been this way).

And the democratic candidate got more votes. But there are some key concepts that the left are massively "feels over facts" than the right on, and I wish the left would at least listen to and accept if some evidence exists to back up a statement
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

MenuWars posted...

Both sides are terrible at the feels thing, but the left is arguably based more upon feels than any other political party so I'm not entirely sure why Rock's taking this approach, other than to piss you off and make you feel like your enemy.

Feel.

This for the most part. Both "ends" of the political spectrum are all about feelz. Its stupid to put one over the other on that subject.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

https://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/a_funny_thing_happened_on_the_way_to_gender_equality_in_norway/15213

"An interesting finding to emerge from some of the research is that in developing countries women are more likely than their Western counterparts to choose jobs in the typically male field of technology because these jobs are better paid and offer better career opportunities. In the highly developed democratic countries, however, women are freer to choose what they typically prefer: work involving face to face dealings with people."

I think the main thing people dont understand is if you try to control the social constructs because they are "oppressive", isn't the only thing left biological factors? I mean is there a third thing in the nature v nuture debate?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

banananor posted...

for example, claiming "women are more interested in people and men are more interested in things" as if it were a fact is just random. if there's no source backing this up, this carries as much weight as the comedy sketch that says "women are interested in things, and men are interested in women, and therefore men only buy things to attract women". It's kind of the opposite, too!

There is some sources for this. Baby boys are more likely to stare at objects in motion, baby girls are more likely to stare at faces.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/family/08/20/parenting.gender/index.html

"According to psychologists at the University of Cambridge in England, boys prefer to watch mechanical motion over human motion. When they gave 12-month-old boys the choice of looking at people talking or windshield wipers moving, you can guess which the tots picked. And it turns out that baby boys are more adept at keeping track of moving objects. Recent research shows that boys are about two months ahead of girls when it comes to figuring out the laws of motion (that if you roll a ball under a couch, say, it will take a few seconds to pop out on the other side)."

" Girls are more likely to establish and maintain eye contact, and are attracted to individual faces -- especially women's. They're also more skilled at reading emotional expressions; if shown a frightening face, for example, they'll look at Mom or get distressed, but they'll be fine if they see a happy one. Boys take longer to notice the difference, according to a meta-analysis of 26 studies on kids' capacity to recognize facial expressions."

Again, i dont think this really makes anything 100% conclusive, but there is some evidence for the "boys like objects more, women like people more" thing. It also kinda fits in with hunter gatherer roots, which was like 190,000 years of the ~200,000 years of human evolution if that matters.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

fun fact, childless millennial women outearn men in every major city in the usa. The same thing happened when gen xers were in their 20s and 30s.

The "wage gap" statistics just prove 1 thing. Men chase money longer than women do.

The number 1 thing that causes the "women only make 77% of the income men make" is due to the fact that most women tend to date/marry men who are older than them, which usually means more established.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/02/24/childless-women-in-their-twenties-out-earn-men-so/#200d1c03a82c
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/apr/09/genevieve-wood/what-pay-gap-young-women-out-earn-men-cities-gop-p/
http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

The real thing isnt so much "can women be good coders" or some crap like that. The question that should be asked, do men need a career more than women to be happy in western society, and is that what is causing men to go into coding, because its a grueling task but pays well.

Because fun fact, places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and India have more women in stem than men, and last time i checked its Sweden that is praised for being some gender fluid utopia and not them.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-take-over-tech-70-of-irans-science-and-engineering-students-are-women/#11402d5a44de
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

HaRRicH posted...

Bucky O'Hare (NES) come to mind.

Also Alpha Centauri, Heroes of Might and Magic 3 (getting more love lately though, same with Bucky).
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Bucky O'Hare
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

i have the 4 part and 3 part .hacks and have only played through 1.5 of the 4 part series. The dungeons were so god damn repetitive even if the story was mildly interesting.

I hear the gu series is better developed. Maybe ill skip the rest and play it
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

trdl23 posted...

This is the world we live in now.

Cultural doomsaying is something I usually scoff at, but... Jesus, guys.

We know what to blame for this
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Metal_DK posted...

another great article i found about how 2007 caused all the craziness of what we experience today

http://www.todayonline.com/commentary/why-world-changed-2007

For the first time I'm glad I clicked on a Politics topic

happy to be of service. Remember. 2007. Worst year post ww2. Ruined society
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

another great article i found about how 2007 caused all the craziness of what we experience today

http://www.todayonline.com/commentary/why-world-changed-2007
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

PhoenixFey posted...

Getting a house in Morrowind is so annoying

In fact, I think the only way to get one legally is to join a Great House. Or is there another way?

I ended up just using that one house in Balmora with The dead body, and stuffed all my stuff in the body

I do this as well in almost every one of my playthroughs
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

best stage/level maybe? Idk
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

fuck the Casual Revolution of 2007 so much
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

fuck the Casual Revolution of 2007
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

I have a fairly big retro video game collection from garage sales. Games were cheap before 2007 when social media caused exponential increase in prices
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

one released before 2007, one released after. Which do you think is going to be better?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Mr Lasastryke posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

I think you're falling into a bit of a language trap here.

"Masculinity" means male traits in the sense that we've ASSIGNED them to men, not necessarily that they ARE male traits.

Our perception of being a good father is different than our perception of being a good mother, even though gender doesn't really matter to either one.

oh ok. yeah, if it's defined like that i would say positive masculinity does exist.

This is a fair way to look at it, but i will say im pretty sure people want to change so that they arent assigned to men. Which just kinda means its another layer to peel back if anything. Never the less, i appreciate the good discussion by you two.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Mr Lasastryke posted...

Metal_DK posted...

what do you think positive masculinity is? What do you think is a positive trait that is primarily or exclusively male?

i think positive masculinity is bullshit.

So then all masculinity is toxic in your own eyes.

You think positive masculinity doesn't exist (im assuming thats what you mean by bullshit). Thus the only type of masculinity is toxic?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Jakyl25 posted...

Metal_DK posted...

What is positive masculinity is my question though. Like what specific traits are positive masculinity? Because isnt positive masculinity something that means its primarily (or even exclusively) male? Thus disbarring women from being able to obtain it? Thus sexist?

Being a good father
Promoting work ethic
Going out of your way to assist those in need

Those are some traits that are associated with masculinity in our culture that are positive

one of those three makes sense to me (good father). But promoting work ethic and going out of your way to assist those in need are primarily male traits? Interesting answer at least.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Mr Lasastryke posted...

Metal_DK posted...

What is positive masculinity is my question though. Like what specific traits are positive masculinity? Because isnt positive masculinity something that means its primarily (or even exclusively) male? Thus disbarring women from being able to obtain it? Thus sexist?

according to sephyg bodyslamming reporters is positive masculinity.

what do you think positive masculinity is? What do you think is a positive trait that is primarily or exclusively male?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Mr Lasastryke posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

...today I learned that when some people see the phrase "toxic masculinity", they're actually thinking it's saying "all masculinity is toxic", as opposed to "a certain subset of behaviors attributed to masculinity that is harmful".

That explains a lot of reactions I've seen which previously confused me, such as denial of such a thing existing (even though it's blatantly obvious that it exists).

Unfortunately this misunderstanding has quite the potential to be harmful, too.

some people don't misunderstand what it means but still deny it exists because it's impossible for them to imagine that any behaviors attributed to masculinity can be harmful.

What is positive masculinity is my question though. Like what specific traits are positive masculinity? Because isnt positive masculinity something that means its primarily (or even exclusively) male? Thus disbarring women from being able to obtain it? Thus sexist?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

I mean PS4 isn't much better.

Consoles have been shit since 2007
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Props for one arc the lad, the rest of the series is hit or miss, but mostly hit imo

Lunar 2 is just as good if not better than 1 imo as well.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Tengu i guess? Mega Man 8 was just such a joke idk.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Never got the love for boyhood, ok but nothing special.

Dunkirk was significantly better, not sure why the fuck people are comparing the two
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Dunkirk was excellent. Not sure if its Nolan's best film like some are saying (but didnt some say that about interstellar too for its first few weeks?), but its definitely at least upper mid tier.

Things I liked that are small spoilers at best
1) The faint ticking clock sound throughout the film
2) The fact that they dont refer to names very often in the film (some didn't like this aspect, but I thought it was kinda cool)
3) The way they linked 3 stories together, each spanning different amounts of time (land - one week sea - one day, air - one hour)
4) Kenneth Branagh's scenes
5) Mark Rylance's scenes, he was kinda the compass of the film in a way
6) Harry Styles was surprisingly good, he was getting unfair criticism from people I talked to before seeing the film. Not sure if that was happening on a national level conversation though

Overall its entertaining and tells a great story, and perhaps until this movie one of the most under talked about and underappreciated heroic decisions of WW2
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

No I know about the meme, i just dont understand why he posted that now with mentioning me about using it when i refer to the Casual Revolution. It seems weirdly timed even if accurate
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Fair enough, im glad more people are aware of how 2007 brought up Trump. Sadly it takes this dumpster fire for enough people to be aware of this, but maybe Trump was inevitable with social media and the centralized internet?
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

KamikazePotato posted...

@Metal_DK


Feel free to use this in the future for all your Casual Revolution posting needs!

@KamikazePotato
Did I miss something itt that needs people to be reminded of the CRO-2K7? Or did you just stumble upon this? Either way I will try to merge this in. MGS2 best MGS, been playing it right now actually on hard mode. Just beat Vamp in the Core 2 basement.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

of a time when I
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Gamecube collecting is skyrocketing the past 2ish years, so id keep those. Or if you sell em, probably dont buy an NES classic with it.
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

then and blink182 were gateway bands for a lot of people born in the late 80s
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Fun read so far, sorry for not commenting much.

Mark/Recall best spells
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Linkin Park was pretty much the first popular band to make AMVs to. Probably because anime was really taking off in the early 00s (late 90s too) when Linkin Park was super popular. RIP
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016

Yes, but mostly due to capital gains from day trading
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Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016