Lurker > EDumey

Hmm.

MZero, in the forever war of Ulti accusing people of always going after him as scum, you've said in the past that you have a pretty successful record going after him, right?

Can you point me to a game where you successfully caught him on inconsistencies like this?

For full transparency, my perception of Ulti is that you can't really catch him on inconsistent logic, but instead on his motivations. Going to be honest and say I feel like I can easily see stubborn town Ulti motivations for a lot of his actions this game, and wondering if you driving into him is scummy.

To be fair, you also pressured Sultan on his inconsistencies in a similar way. I just wonder if your history with Ulti supports this as town MZero versus Scum Ulti.

Sultan you snakin'??

UltimaterializerX posted...

Yes Im trusting town to make the right play and hit scum. I feel Ive laid out a pretty solid case on 2 people.

If you have easy mislynches out there in this format, its too easy for scum to control the lynch. This forces THEM to panic late. Its why I think MZero + Kirby and Chris + Dumey would be good pairs. That removes everyone other than my PoE. I think 2 scum are in Justin/Sultan/FD and theyd be forced to pair up, then we just kill them both tomorrow.

If you're still entertaining triple kills, especially when they're on targets where you are the ONLY one that thinks they're scum, then your strategy is truly galaxy brained. It's so short sighted and you're not thinking practically about what's going to happen tomorrow.

You're partly right that the goal of this right now is to force scum to panic and pair up. Look in the mirror to see what that might look like.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Lol what are your thoughts right now after isquen and Ulti both panicked and paired?

I don't really know how to convince Isquen to go back and read the end of D3 and see how ready I was to die. I practically begged Lopen to let it end because I wasn't going to be better than him at solving. So I'm going to treat Isquen the same way I do Lopen, solve around him and hope he comes around eventually.

I don't know if Isquen was actually OMGUSing Chris there or just kind of joking. His first reply to Chris was obviously in good humor. But I'm not sure if he actually thinks Chris is scummy for advocating to lynch him.

Ulti if you and Isquen are both town, trying to protect him here could actually backfire on you tremendously because you're basically guaranteeing we shoot into the two of you tomorrow if we miss on the other PoE. You are betting everything on today.

EDumey posted...

we can start pairing up and seeing who flinches first.

You know I was expecting that to take longer.

Alright I choose. Isquen dies.

jk

@ Chris

I humbly ask on behalf of town that you choose someone out of Sultan/MZero/Ulti/Isquen to DIE. The rest of us all feel too conflicted to make a decision, so we want you to do it so we can start pairing up and seeing who flinches first.

Oh right FD I forgot to gloat that I was right there is a way to have an even amount of kills! Modkills! Eat that!

sultan
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80712690/979209694

FD's plan is trying to make sure Group 2 never is at risk and we hopefully can mess with how scum would prefer to pair with each other today or tomorrow.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

What attack at Dumey I was asking dumey to work with me a bit. He is being close minded. Dumey even mentioned yesterday that he thought I was town who started off bad. When I posted my reads list wall.

I don't think I said that. I'm pretty sure I just humored going with the same person you wanted to lynch and said if you were town and right about it, then you were actually having a stellar performance. It was meant as a compliment, but only if you were town and right!

Kirby321 posted...

Dumey was just reiterating everybody's reads in that post. I fail to see how Dumey is trying to control the thread when FD is blatantly trying to craft out plans for how to handle today.

And just to be clear, my point isn't that FD should be suspicious because of that. My point is that it's inconsistent that you're calling out Dumey here but not FD.

I was gonna add this comparison, but it felt too salty coming from me so I took a step back, lol.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

If anyone is worried about me putting my thumb on the scale I'd be happy to take my opinion out of the running today.

Group 1: Ulti, MZero, Sultan, Isquen

Group 2: Chris, Dumey, Kirby, JC

Group 3: FD

1 person from group 2 pairs with me. Maybe whoever has the least confident reads? Either way, take 1 person out of group 2, leaving 3 people in group 2. Each of those 3 people adopts someone from Group 1 and whoever is left is dead.

Isquen will not date me or Kirby, and maybe not JC. I'm not sure what to think about that. By having a POE that's so incredibly polarized from everyone else, he kind of ensures that he has a small pool of acceptable dates.

But just in general, I think this plays out in a way I'm okay with.

Sultan I'm literally talking with people. I asked Isquen specific questions about his EoD to get his perspective and intentions. I asked you for specific reads. I pushed MZero to give his list so I could look at patterns in PoE. I've talked with FD and Kirby. I've argued with MZero.

Why do you want me to shut up and not try to push what I believe? Isn't that exactly what I'm supposed to do as town? Get out of here.

I mean for your plan to work, we just need to get Chris, you, me, Kirby, and JC on board, right? But then a secret FD scum does guarantee a way to the endgame there, so paranoia will probably seep in at some point.

It's probably just Ulti. He thought Sultan was scum for sure in our chat. Then hard cleared him because of Chris' prosty green check. And now thinks scum is between Sultan/JC/Chris. God I wish inconsistent reads were actually scummy and not just players not thinking things through.

Okay MZero added FD and I didn't refresh. More food for thought.

Things I'm noting from this list of final 3/4s that people have given.

Despite being in the PoE still, only Kirby has mentioned FD.
Ulti is bonkers and the only one with JC or Chris in his.
FD and I both list Isquen as a distant fourth, but otherwise Isquen is not listed as a confident scum read by ANYONE.
Sultan and Isquen are the only ones trying to carry a torch against Kirby.
Ulti and Sultan are mentioned by literally everyone that isn't themselves. (technically even ulti mentioned himself with triple kill shenanigans :thinking:)
MZero is in several lists, but not all.

Would scum mention their partner here? Are players like Isquen and FD being so far from EVERYONE'S list a point for concern? Or do scum hedge their bets and list their scum in Rule of Three here?

FD I'm down to try and set up the lynches in a way you think is smart. But at the end of the day, we're making assumptions that scum is playing to pair up on the correct day, when they could have just paired up on the wrong day and be out of sync now or something. I dunno. As long as we are lynching in our PoE and aren't stuck with another day where we say, "why is everyone here town again?" I'll be happy.

Isquen posted...

Dollars to doughnuts Corrik shared who he was going to deputy before the 5 PM cutoff and Kirby had him killed for it.

Corrik was dead no matter who he scanned. Any result was disaster for scum. Even if he hits two town, that's two town clears.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I stand corrected on FD. Yeah it's two of Sultan/Justin/Chris, and Chris is mainly rule 1 paranoia.

Isquen posted...

Dumey Ulti Sultan Kirby. Therein lies our remaining duo.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I still think BOTH scum can be found in: Ulti, Mzero, Sultan, Isquen

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Final 3 should be ulti mzero Kirby

MZero posted...

Idk about final 3 but I want Sultan and Ulti in there

EDumey posted...

This would leave Ulti/Sultan/MZero as a final 3.

Pretty confident JC shares same list as me and FD.

Kirby same list + FD suspicion.

Chris ??

Kirby321 posted...

Hi Dumey did you read my post

Please acknowledge it, because I feel like at this stage, we need to start looking at past behaviors and actions and see if we can find a story in them.

My response about Mzero was my response to your post lol.

Mzero give me a third. Everyone else gave at least 3 or 4. You have no strong suspicions of anyone else?

lmao. i'm just saying comparing yourself to those three doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

oof, awkward timing hi MZero!

It is kind of funny that MZero comes in today with annoyance about us being skeptical of him not being around for end day, and lists Ulti, Sultan, and Chris as people who also are never brought to end of day. But all three of those players have received heavy suspicion and criticism for their dates. Like the idea that they're "getting away with it" while he gets criticized is hilarious when the dating strategy of Sultan and Ulti are some of the biggest reasons why people are against them.

MZero I was tryin to cook, where did you go? >:(

Sultan and MZero, build be your ideal pairings/Final Three for the day. FD, Isquen, and Ulti already basically have. Who do you want on the chopping block.

I think you could potentially send out a single date to someone trustworthy like Chris, with the understanding that he might not take it. But I do think you shouldn't send out multiple dates before rule change.

I was gonna say it's a close game even with us killing scum D1, but we did out our room cop D2 immediately after losing our only protection. :)

I think maybe we leave Chris up if he thinks he can be active for EoD.

As confirmed Prosty, he's probably the best option to hold the reins of MZero.

I'm thinking of a scenario here where MZero sends a date request to Chris and maybe someone else if we are still undecided by rule change time. Then Chris can be the arbiter of whether or not MZero dies over someone else. Not really sure if anyone else in the game is in as strong a position across all of town. (minus godfather prosty paranoia.)

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I mean you have to have a thought do you not?

I

It's me not dating you and choosing between Ulti and MZero because I struggle to ever get over my suspicion of you.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Actually dumey put of the 3 of us who would you want to Date if you had to?

hheheheheh are you sure you want to hear the answer to that one my sweet tunneled scumspect? :3

UltimaterializerX posted...

Ill make this easy.

I will not send out or accept ANY date requests today. Zero. Today is the day town needs to go for the triple kill and win.

Me, Sultan, and whoever else town agrees should go. Gun to my head, I want Justin with us.

Ulti if you're town and don't date anyone, you die alone and throw. Play to win. If we were gonna risk a Triple Kill it was yesterday. We missed our chance.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I am absolutely ok with being in a final 3 with Sultan and all 3 of us blowing up. He tripped a LOT of scum flags in our chat.

i bet he didn't even write you poetry

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Oh are we talking about Isquen's ##BreakupRequest with less than 90 seconds left in the day? I got distracted by the blatant misinformation Ulti was propagating.

I absolutely view that breakup request from Isquen as pointless posturing since there didn't seem to be any chance MZero would come through with a breakup confirmation and try to set up new pairs in the final minute and a half.

This is why the lack of Isquen sending out a date request afterwards is important to me. Either he knew it was toothless and was just posturing, was committing suicide, or was trying to triple kill JC and I. Honestly the last one looked the most towny if MZero responded fast enough to save Lopen, lol.

Some kind of partner setup would be Chris-JC, Dumey-Kirby, Isquen-FD. I don't see Isquen pairing with either you or me, so it would have to be Chris or FD. Or we snatch up Ulti and leave Isquen in the pile.

I really think if we want to impact the game, we need to get people paired early and force the action.

This was some of my theory planning last night. This would leave Ulti/Sultan/MZero as a final 3. Kirby and I have shown we're both more than willing to breakup late to influence things late. Could swap Isquen and JC if FD thinks that's a more versatile pair.

Sultan, nuts on the table you have to choose Ulti or MZero to date, who do you go for?

though you have a little more ulti vision than us lol

FD I think you're on the exact same page as JC and I were last night.

UltimaterializerX posted...

Chris and Sultan dated, right?

Just in case you're not clear on this, the dating restrictions are only for back to back nights. Chris and Sultan dated D2, so they could date again today if they really wanted to. JC and I dated D1 and D3.

Isquen posted...

But go ahead and try and badmouth me when I have a dead, confirmed town that vouched for me repeatedly.

Dumey Ulti Sultan Kirby. Therein lies our remaining duo.

lol you can ask JC, I was actually trying to rationalize clearing you as town so that our PoE was easier. Wasn't badmouthing you.

Hmm. I was kind of hoping you would say you were trying to triple kill me and JC. lol. I would have bought you as 100% town if that were the case. Now I'm not so certain. It's such a weird interaction to gauge because MZero ACTUALLY WAS THERE as opposed to when Sultan did his toothless breakup D1.

Isquen posted...

I was hoping that I could die in his place, since if you read between the lines of overt lunacy you'd realize that he actually had some good reads the whole way through and it's all that was keeping me from leading a witch burning all my own.

You tried to break up and said, "Get Dumey" then changed to "shun Dumey." You didn't send in another date because you wanted to die in "his" (Lopen?) place, but then was the "shun Dumey" about coming in to the day today?

MZero you have contributed to the game. But you also are heavy in the PoE because of not really having anything to set you apart. And EVERY day this format has pushed us into situations where town players are putting themselves on the line and trying to react to how the final pairings actually ended up. It's just an unfortunate byproduct of this format. You're always going to have ire against you for limiting what kind of moves we can do at end of day.

Best we can do is try to prevent scum from pairing early and make sure the people worth lynching are actually in the pool at the end.

MZero posted...

While reading EoD last night I was so annoyed at how many people were complaining about my time zone, as if Sultan (Day 1 was with me but he was locked in Day 2 and 3 too), Chris, and Ulti haven't avoided the mayhem every day too. Especially Ulti who's been actively avoiding it by taking Red's mass date request, trying to date Isquen day 2 for reasons unrelated to the game, and sending his own mass request yesterday

and I feel like I have contributed and attempted to move the game forward while I'm here and have been cooperative with my dating (aside from Day 1) leaving red and kirby unsafe even though I wanted to date them personally and linked with players widely read town

probably a scum post, coming in and justifying your existence before anyone even pointed a finger at you.

Isquen, can I ask you what your thought process was at end of day yesterday? Just like, what state did you think the game was in when you sent in the breakup request, and what were you hoping to accomplish?

I don't think Isquen knows exactly what the state of things is atm lol.

##Date: Mzero

just in case of last minute breakup so there's no triple kill

JCccccccccccccccccccccccc

well i guess this at least confirms that it was all town in the end. If we don't go after the people that were in earlier pairs tomorrow, I'm gonna blow a gasket.

...

##Breakup

Didn't Lopen go on and on about martyrs not being allowed. Don't let him do it! Make him suffer through the rest of this game!

Corrik7 posted...

You said Kirby was town. Literally you did. What

Yeah I just was answering why you chose Kirby over me to MZero. :P

LET ME BE A TINY BIT SALTY