Lurker > andel

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oh believe me, I remember the starks meltdown. that said, it was no where near the meltdown lebron had. starks wasnt even the 'best' player on the team, and he only checked out in game 7. lebron played terrible in games 2-6 of the finals including every fourth quarter, and is supposed to be a 'great' player. the playoffs and finals seperate the good from the great, and lebron will never be remotely close to a great player until he wins a title.

and lebrons performance against detroit was his one clutch post season game, but it meant nothing as he fell apart when it really mattered.

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I would say that isnt really a fair comparison. James is always a good defender (except at times in the finals), and has 4 inches on rose while he is just as athletic. Rose is also not needed as much on the scoring end.

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well, if we are talking statistically, lebron puts up bigger numbers anyway. and the heat defense is far superior to the dallas d.

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gtm-your username (growlinthe tackling machine?) is hilarious and cool at the same time.

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not too bad though...his team lost to a superior team talent wise. and his eastern conference finals performance was way better than lebrons finals perfomance for what its worth.

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Rose has crazy good talent and will probably be the premiere pg in the nba for years to come. besides center, the point is the toughest skill position in the league to find a superstar at. also, rose has yet to prove he is a choker, something lebron has proven to be. I would rather have had derek jeter throughout his career as a ss than arod because he is a clutch playoff performer even though arod was the superior regular season guy. its that kind of deal to me.

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emperor kazbar- I think I agreed with an opinion you had in a topic not too long ago...also I admire your sig as I am in a similar boat as a vikings, knicks and astros fan.

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yes, adrian peterson or chris johnson should be sought after. also, just have fun, you should enjoy.

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2/10

it was barely playable, and I dont know if I have ever encountered a worse in game camera.

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oh, sorry. at any rate I agree with your thread about catherine and yes, you have an enviable user name.

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shake- (going on the assumption you are the original shake?) you always seemed like a pretty smart guy, and you put effort into contributing in a positive way to the board. also,you have a cool current username.

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pirate king- I like your sig, it made me laugh.

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noren- I dont know you right off hand, but if I recall (which may or may not be accurate) you are a fellow jrpg fan? if so that is awesome.

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mer mer- dont know you, but you have an interesting (and cuteish) name.

and I am from the 03 through 08 years here.

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Ayvuir-I always liked you in the old days, and you seem to put effort into running quality contests and such. and you seem like a geniunely nice guy.

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resident evil 3

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because I dont really dislike anyone, maybe some attitudes but it is only the internet. I will find something nice to say ;-)

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we would be off of it if he had showed up. you are comparing brady, who had good numbers in pretty much every playoff/superbowl win to a guy that falls apart under pressure. not to mention the whole complete different sport thing. if lebron played well and still lost it would be one thing, but you cant argue the guy did anything but fall completelt apart in these finals.

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...but you only have like 3 examples of lebron performing well and 1 of them is only a 1 game performance. I would rather my knicks have dwight, kobe, dwade or even rose over lebron. the guy is talented, but he is incapable (at least thus far) of closing the deal.

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I agree he is the most talented, but that doesnt make him the best. He is very far from being the best player.

and props to you leon for at least making logical, coherent arguments. you are probably the most dedicated user on this board and I commend you for that. I still disaree with you on this particular subject though, but reasonable people can disagree without all the childish drama.

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yes, three major series that come to mind. spurs in his original finals he was not favored, but he played terrible. The celtics series from 2 years ago and most notably (and terrible) these last finals. The fact that he doesnt make game winning (walk off) shots factors in as well.

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+4 persona 3
+3 tales of the abyss
+2 virtua fighter 4

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You will be right if he wins one, leon. dirk was a huge choker too (though not ever the magnitude of lebron), but all is forgiven when you actually get the job done. Like I said, I think lebron has more talent than anyone, he just checks out in the crucial moments.

I hate kobe bryant, but I recognize he is the premier player in the league right now. this isnt about personal bias, it is just about the fact that lebron has a long history of falling apart in crucial situations.

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final fantasy VIII
metal gear solid 2
final fantasy VI
super smash bros

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I would say lebrons choke job easily trumps all those, chrono. We are talking about one guy that played terrible throughout an entire series in which his team was heavily favored. the guy was scared to excecute offense in the fourth quarter. I never viewed lebron as the best player in the league (although he easily has the talent to be) because of his lack of clutch ability.

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just look at his regular season numbers in comparison to his finals numbers, especially in the fourth quarter. Ive never seen an NBA player (that is the 'best' player in the league) fall apart like that.

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boom

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how can you say lebron didnt choke in the finals? that is self evident. the guy crumbled every fourth quarter, he turned himself into an international joke.

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suikoden with ease.

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we are talking about an epic choke job (actually a few key ones by lebron during playoffs) against manning losing a few games vegas had at virtually even money.

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manning has def choked a few times, but more often he has run into a better team (pats). nba is more about a couple of guys, nfl is much more about overall team.

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Im just talking about individuals...and the players reputation and talent def factor in...yeah the pats were an epic choke job (I was delighted), but lebron checking out in the finals is really the pinnacle of sports meltdowns. the guy played like garbage the whole series and was obviously overwhelmed in every 4th quarter.

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its not the few bad series, its the manner in which he falls apart. who is a bigger choker?

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still close

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one more bump..

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you kids can keep trolling me in a sad attempt to jockey position...I find it hilarious. It is also funny that none of you can come up with a bigger choker.

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bam

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and if by 'troll' you mean 'user whose points you cant refute so you result to flaming' than you are correct sir. thank you

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again...

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Not really a personal insult as your lack of reading comprehension skills have been self substantiated through this thread. While you refuse to respond to the actual initial argument you neuter your 'points'.

and yes, lebron has played well at times during the playoffs, but he negates that by choking when it really matters (he himself said that playoff wins are nothing without a championship and the season would be a failure). do you deny that he choked in the finals?

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that gave me a laugh....anytime someone resorts to personal insults over the internet it shows their obvious insecurities...and you have proven to have below average reading comprehension skills throughout this thread.

maybe when you are older than 16 you will realize most people are superior to you...because that is certainly the case kiddo.

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bosh, your reading comrehension skills (as well as simple logic) are laughable.

and when the guy performs well during the regular season (undeniably) but performs worse than bad when it actually matters, well, it speaks for itself. he is a choker.

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bump this act of benevolence

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my position is obviously pretty solid as you all seem to deflect the fact that he checks out on a regular basis in crucial series throughout his career....and no one denies dirk choked in the 06 series, but since you acknowledge that you obviously agree that lebron also choked? same principle, only lebron was a much bigger favorite to close the deal this season.

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...and of those teams did they have a player widely considered the best in the league that completely checked out? look at lebrons numbers during critical playoff series' throughout his career...the fact that they lost to boston or the spurs or the mavs is not the issue, it is lebrons performance during these series. I will ask again, how do you justify his falling apart in all these series?

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