Whats the deal with Pokemon ZA?

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Current Events » Whats the deal with Pokemon ZA?
Proto_Spark posted...
If you don't like the product being put out, you can always... stop participating. That would be a much more valid use of your time than going to a forum for a game you don't like just to complain. It's perfectly okay to just move on to something else.

There's a bajillion pokemon clones out there. Some of them are even good.

idk man Im with the others that this attitude is the reason well never get any real improvements out of the franchise.

Im still playing violet and enjoyed it especially with the switch 2 enhancements but I see no reason why that means I cant criticize it and hope for better.

Also by your logic ZA must not be very good cause youre here wasting time instead of playing it.
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I like it far more than the garbage that was S/V. At least the Legends games try new things with the combat and catching. People praise S/V underneath all the horrible performance and issues but even that I don't understand as it is just bog standard Pokemon.
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Biofighter55 posted...
idk that new game theyre making thats not Pokemon seems decent and if that game actually ends up being good??

then we would have to wonder why Pokemon game s dont live up to their potential and then we have to look at the other 2 owners of Pokemon

People always blame developers for everything when majority of the time they are bound by upper management.
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I'm personally having a lot of fun with it. It's not a perfect game but any means but I'm happy with my purchase.
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voldothegr8 posted...
Do people still not get it? Not Nintendo, Gamefreak. They have always been lazy as shit developers.
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I've been playing ZA on Switch 2. Not super far into it (only Rank X right now), but I've been having a really good time. I dig the new twists on the POkemon formula and how they handled the nighttime battlezones.
Nintendo would put more pressure on Gamefreak to make better games if they were losing money. Yet Nintendo doesn't even feel the need to pressure them as long as the game sells. Gamefreak is allowed to put in the bare minimum work because people still play and enjoy the end result. So nothing will change.
"So this is how liberty dies, with Thunderous applause." Padme Amidala
Nintendo deserves blame for not giving Gamefreak more resources to make their games good when you can just look around the corner and see something from the exact same console eclipse Gamefreak, and Gamefreak deserves blame for seemingly not actually having the desire to put more than the bare minimum into things, where even with their limited budget they do shit like gutting features that are common in fucking RPG Maker games and for seemingly no reason like removing manual saves or instead of having it there from the start, making it that you needed to UNLOCK THE VOLUME SLIDERS WITH A KEY ITEM in Sword and Shield. That's two thirds of The Pokemon Company right there, unless you're going to make the argument that Creatures has some type of stranglehold over fucking Nintendo of all companies, my assessment sounds like an accurate one.
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creativerealms posted...
Nintendo would put more pressure on Gamefreak to make better games if they were losing money. Yet Nintendo doesn't even feel the need to pressure them as long as the game sells. Gamefreak is allowed to put in the bare minimum work because people still play and enjoy the end result. So nothing will change.
If the playerbase either gets content with the slop they buy, then Nintendo doesn't need to put some effort and money to cater to them.

At some point the consumers should take the blame of the enshittification of entertainment.
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Its a flawed game with the map being the biggest issue but I am personally having more fun with the game than I have with a pokemon game in years. The gameplay loop is addicting.
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The franchise has always gone out of its way to stay as stagnant as possible. Making a effort not to significantly improve and either do a step back or side step in terms of features and quality.

Which work for a franchise like pokemon I guess. But Im curious how long itll last once the millennials carrying the franchise eventually drop off. Is it even attracting new blood?

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Prismsblade posted...
The franchise has always gone out of its way to stay as stagnant as possible. Making a effort not to significantly improve and either do a step back or side step in terms of features and quality.

Which work for a franchise like pokemon I guess. But Im curious how long itll last once the millennials carrying the franchise eventually drop off. Is it even attracting new blood?

Its consistently the most profitable franchise in the world ahead of Mickey Mouse by about 60 billion

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It's definitely more fun than S/V. Not as fun as Arceus. Way less ugly than any pokemon game since let's go pikachu/eevee
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I refuse to play slop. Give Pokemon games a real budget and I would love to play again.
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DodogamaRayBrst posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfSKAvbAUUk

just confirmed sort of what I always thought

Nintendo more than likely holds the real power over Pokemon despite it only owning 1/3

they own more of it through relationships and connections
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Biofighter55 posted...
just confirmed sort of what I always thought

Nintendo more than likely holds the real power over Pokemon despite it only owning 1/3

they own more of it through relationships and connections
There's definitely evidence that Pokmon is not like their other franchises though. There are some quirks about how the series is represented in other Nintendo products. For example, you can't extend any Pokmon tracks on the Nintendo music app, which has to be a weird corporate meddling issue.
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Letsago posted...
There's definitely evidence that Pokmon is not like their other franchises though. There are some quirks about how the series is represented in other Nintendo products. For example, you can't extend any Pokmon tracks on the Nintendo music app, which has to be a weird corporate meddling issue.

the video did note that yeah that the relationship is very complicated

there is differences between how the rights are handled in Japan and world wide

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The issue is that its just there. It's not bad, but it isn't good either. They actively chose to spend less than 30 million making the game and it shows. From what I've heard about the game, even the Switch 2 version has issues. The game needed a larger budget. At least double.

My hope is that they actually spend 100 million making Gen 10, but I know they won't. They will coast and other companies will do the Pokemon IP better than the main company.
Proto_Spark posted...
Pokemon has a huge section of its "fanbase" that basically just wants to ruin it for everyone else. And by being loud and obnoxious, they tend to drastically over-represent the widespread opinions of the franchise (especially on forums like here, where there isn't a thing akin to a downvote so its easy to drown out the "regular" opinions). This is pretty common with most "popular" things (damn near everything gets hate-brigaded these days), but something like Pokemon has a disproportionate amount.

It's Pokemon, with a fun twist on the gameplay and a decent little story. You'll probably already know if you enjoy the game or not.

Pokemon looks Worse than the original Xenoblade for Wii
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People must grapple violently with the fact that, despite being the biggest, most successful media franchise on the planet, Pokmon is not and never has been, an actual AAA game series. We are never going to see a Pokmon game with the production values of, say, Final Fantasy. Game Freak are basically indie devs and they could get away with a lot more when the games revolved around tile scrolling and jpegs, but they've struggled keeping up. Honestly, seeing their supposed budgets, it's not a shock that they have so many limitations and there seem to be issues from every angle of TPC. Nothing will change because the IP prints money and the games seem to be of little concern in the grand scheme.

That said, PLZA looks pretty fun and I think GF using spin-offs to branch out a little from their decrepit main game formula is good.
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OneSpookyGirl posted...
Game Freak are basically indie devs and they could get away with a lot more when the games revolved around tile scrolling and jpegs, but they've struggled keeping up.

But that is of their own making. Arceus has sold just under 15 million copies, S/V sold 27 million and Sw/Sh sold just under 27 million. They absolutely have the revenue to spend more then $13 million on ZA. Heck of their last 4 games the most expensive to make was S/V and that was only $22 million.

They 100% have the money to spend on making bigger games and they are choosing not to.

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Hypnospace posted...
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MNThunder posted...
But that is of their own making. Arceus has sold just under 15 million copies, S/V sold 27 million and Sw/Sh sold just under 27 million. They absolutely have the revenue to spend more then $13 million on ZA. Heck of their last 4 games the most expensive to make was S/V and that was only $22 million.

They 100% have the money to spend on making bigger games and they are choosing not to.
I'm not going to pretend to know how TPC divide revenue or handle allocating resources amongst the businesses and I wasn't excusing the state of their games, lol.
Beep . . . boop.
Calling them an indie company is excusing them. They make one of the best selling video game franchises and they spend as little as they can on making their game.
MNThunder posted...
Calling them an indie company is excusing them. They make one of the best selling video game franchises and they spend as little as they can on making their game.
That's the joke.
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MNThunder posted...
Calling them an indie company is excusing them. They make one of the best selling video game franchises and they spend as little as they can on making their game.
I think you need to read my posts again, LOL
Beep . . . boop.
OneSpookyGirl posted...
I think you need to read my posts again, LOL

Apologies that went over my head.

In my sad defense I have seen people actually claim they are a small company.
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It looks ok I guess but so many great games released this year so its not really on my radar especially at full price
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SilentSeph posted...
It looks ok I guess but so many great games released this year so its not really on my radar especially at full price

Pokemon games don't really go lower in price.
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It's the vocal minority, like everything else.
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Tmaster148 posted...
Pokemon games don't really go lower in price.
Yeah they stay the same for about two console generations than skyrocket in price.
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Prismsblade posted...
The franchise has always gone out of its way to stay as stagnant as possible. Making a effort not to significantly improve and either do a step back or side step in terms of features and quality.

Which work for a franchise like pokemon I guess. But Im curious how long itll last once the millennials carrying the franchise eventually drop off. Is it even attracting new blood?

Sword and Shield and Scarlet and Violet sold about 10 million more copies each then any of the DS games so I'd say they are yeah.

Also the Trading card game is vastly bigger then it used to be. Its scalped to hell and back for a reason.

Also I disagree on the stagnancy of late. They've tried open world and not always using the gym formula and the legends Series shakes things up pretty well. Arceus was a Open Zone strictly single player game with action and stealth elements focused much less on battling. And frankly they've been doing much better on characters and story generally. I'd say that started in gen 5. X/Y was a major bump in the road and Sword and Shield...well most the characters were fine but the plot was not.

Z-A meanwhile switches to a Real Time battle system which alone is a huge shake up.
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Speaking more for the other Pokemon games because I haven't put much time into ZA yet, I think people get frustrated with a lot of the complaints because it tends to come from people who 1. haven't played whatever they're complaining about and 2. have not played any of the games in about a decade.

The people playing these games tend to agree with the criticism about the presentation - they're probably more aware of it than the people that don't play them anymore. Pokemon's been behind graphically even before they moved to consoles more than a decade ago. But when that's all you hear about from a select group of people for a decade, it gets grating, especially since a lot of the time the complaints come up when someone just mentions that they started playing one of the newer games.

Basically a lot of the complaints sound like those unhinged people that are still complaining about The Last Jedi to this day even though that movie's almost a decade old at this point. Go aim that vitriol at The Pokemon Company/Game Freak, not people just posting on social media about it.
Unsuprised_Pika posted...
Sword and Shield and Scarlet and Violet sold about 10 million more copies each then any of the DS games so I'd say they are yeah.

Also the Trading card game is vastly bigger then it used to be. Its scalped to hell and back for a reason.

Also I disagree on the stagnancy of late. They've tried open world and not always using the gym formula and the legends Series shakes things up pretty well. Arceus was a Open Zone strictly single player game with action and stealth elements focused much less on battling. And frankly they've been doing much better on characters and story generally. I'd say that started in gen 5. X/Y was a major bump in the road and Sword and Shield...well most the characters were fine but the plot was not.

Z-A meanwhile switches to a Real Time battle system which alone is a huge shake up.

Just because a game sold well doesn't mean it was received well. Sword and Shield was Pokemons first attempt at a Switch 1 game. It was widely criticized. Fans were fine with it being turn-based, but then noted that there wasn't much effort into making the game look proper. Textures were low quality and a lot of moves weren't even animated. Cinderaces double kick was a literal hop.

Scarlet/Violet was their next attempt. Coming off of Arceus, people had high hopes. But somehow they were unable to even run the game at a steady 60 fps, when games like Xenoblade Chronicles X, which came out for the Wii-U ran smoother with much more graphical clutter.

If the issue is budget this should have been addressed years ago. They are charging full price for games that quite frankly aren't worth half that.
Ivany2008 posted...
Just because a game sold well doesn't mean it was received well. Sword and Shield was Pokemons first attempt at a Switch 1 game. It was widely criticized. Fans were fine with it being turn-based, but then noted that there wasn't much effort into making the game look proper. Textures were low quality and a lot of moves weren't even animated. Cinderaces double kick was a literal hop.

Scarlet/Violet was their next attempt. Coming off of Arceus, people had high hopes. But somehow they were unable to even run the game at a steady 60 fps, when games like Xenoblade Chronicles X, which came out for the Wii-U ran smoother with much more graphical clutter.

If the issue is budget this should have been addressed years ago. They are charging full price for games that quite frankly aren't worth half that.

When you said stagnant I assumed you were focusing on story/gameplay. Technically stagnant I agree with.

Also Xenoblade X was not 60fps. Not even on Switch. Though it was indeed smoother, bigger and prettier in most ways.

Also ngl 60fps is nice but I'd take more complex/lively pokemon animations, and denser enviroments, more interactivity, less pop in etc over 60fps for turn based pokemon. I think 40FPS would be a nice middle ground if need be but if we get something noticeable better looking then prior games at 60fps of course that is ideal.
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Unsuprised_Pika posted...
When you said stagnant I assumed you were focusing on story/gameplay. Technically stagnant I agree with.

Also Xenoblade X was not 60fps. Not even on Switch. Though it was indeed smoother, bigger and prettier in most ways.

Also ngl 60fps is nice but I'd take more complex/lively pokemon animations, and denser enviroments, more interactivity, less pop in etc over 60fps for turn based pokemon. I think 40FPS would be a nice middle ground if need be but if we get something noticeable better looking then prior games at 60fps of course that is ideal.

Every modern game should be 60 FPS. No exceptions. It's not like 12 gigs of ram isn't capable with that art style. It's not really asking a lot, since 60 FPS is literally just smooth animations. The moment you drop down to 30/40 you can start to see what I call jutting, where you get this kind of jerky quick motions that looks off.
Ivany2008 posted...
Every modern game should be 60 FPS. No exceptions. It's not like 12 gigs of ram isn't capable with that art style. It's not really asking a lot, since 60 FPS is literally just smooth animations. The moment you drop down to 30/40 you can start to see what I call jutting, where you get this kind of jerky quick motions that looks off.
Honestly, every modern game should have an option for either.
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reincarnator07 posted...
Honestly, every modern game should have an option for either.

Every modern game shouldn't suffer from issues in the first place. Modern technology is more than capable of running games at 1080p without issues at 60 FPS. If there is an issue then its typically an issue on the developer side that they haven't addressed prior to launching their game. Very rarely is it an issue with the hardware on the hardware manufacturers side.

It's only going to become an issue if games start implementing clutter either by having too many objects shown on screen, or if we somehow figure out how to design games around the Euclidean Unlimited Detail engine which was proven to be a scam from 10 years ago, but promised some very interesting opportunities. But that would probably only be actually feasible using DDR8 memory and whatever Graphics Card comes around at that time. Mainly because your breaking down polygons into much smaller dots for a hell of a lot more detail and that requires a lot more processing power.
Ivany2008 posted...
Every modern game shouldn't suffer from issues in the first place. Modern technology is more than capable of running games at 1080p without issues at 60 FPS. If there is an issue then its typically an issue on the developer side that they haven't addressed prior to launching their game. Very rarely is it an issue with the hardware on the hardware manufacturers side.

It's only going to become an issue if games start implementing clutter either by having too many objects shown on screen, or if we somehow figure out how to design games around the Euclidean Unlimited Detail engine which was proven to be a scam from 10 years ago, but promised some very interesting opportunities. But that would probably only be actually feasible using DDR8 memory and whatever Graphics Card comes around at that time. Mainly because your breaking down polygons into much smaller dots for a hell of a lot more detail and that requires a lot more processing power.
to be fair the S1 isn't quite "modern technology" even back in 2017. Though it should still be more than powerful enough to run something like SV with no problems. At least S1 ZA is actually consistent and stable
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mehmeh1 posted...
to be fair the S1 isn't quite "modern technology" even back in 2017. Though it should still be more than powerful enough to run something like SV with no problems. At least S1 ZA is actually consistent and stable

It was modern for the time. And I choose to bring up games like Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and X, as well as games like Lost Planet 2, or even Breath of the Wild, which ran on earlier consoles with better graphics and smoother framerates than either Switch Pokemon game. I don't know if its the engine that sucks, or if its the lack of bigger budget but something has to change.
Ivany2008 posted...
It was modern for the time. And I choose to bring up games like Xenoblade Chronicles 1 and X, as well as games like Lost Planet 2, or even Breath of the Wild, which ran on earlier consoles with better graphics and smoother framerates than either Switch Pokemon game. I don't know if its the engine that sucks, or if its the lack of bigger budget but something has to change.
it was PS3-tier tech on 2017, and even for handhelds it was using a pretty old nvidia chip by then. SV has absolutely 0 hardware excuse for running and looking as horrid as it does, but all other pokemon games run fine? Like there are no massive frame drops like on some of BotW/TotK's denser areas (even if BotW/TotK do feel like the drops are justififed with how good they look).

Presentation-wise, SwSh's issue is that the game absolutely wasn't made for freecam so the freecam areas look horrible, and ZA just lacks proper art direction in general. LA's perfectly fine for what it is
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Ivany2008 posted...
Every modern game shouldn't suffer from issues in the first place. Modern technology is more than capable of running games at 1080p without issues at 60 FPS. If there is an issue then its typically an issue on the developer side that they haven't addressed prior to launching their game. Very rarely is it an issue with the hardware on the hardware manufacturers side.

It's only going to become an issue if games start implementing clutter either by having too many objects shown on screen, or if we somehow figure out how to design games around the Euclidean Unlimited Detail engine which was proven to be a scam from 10 years ago, but promised some very interesting opportunities. But that would probably only be actually feasible using DDR8 memory and whatever Graphics Card comes around at that time. Mainly because your breaking down polygons into much smaller dots for a hell of a lot more detail and that requires a lot more processing power.
As a PC gamer, every game chooses between fidelity and performance, doesn't matter what system you're on. When the consoles cost less than a third of what my GPU alone does, they are going to compromise somewhere, especially when the console in question is portable. This is fine, no one buys consoles for peak specs. However, the user should be able to choose where the compromise falls. Some people genuinely aren't bothered by low frame rates and would prefer better fidelity.
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reincarnator07 posted...
As a PC gamer, every game chooses between fidelity and performance, doesn't matter what system you're on. When the consoles cost less than a third of what my GPU alone does, they are going to compromise somewhere, especially when the console in question is portable. This is fine, no one buys consoles for peak specs. However, the user should be able to choose where the compromise falls. Some people genuinely aren't bothered by low frame rates and would prefer better fidelity.

I'm a PC gamer as well. I have the parts to support my expensive taste, but imo consoles shouldn't need to have that option. If that means that consoles can't support games at ultra-high settings then so be it. But natively games should be able to be played at 720p(60fps) on Switch 2, and 1080p(60fps) on PS5/XB1X. My point is that games out of the box shouldn't have performance issues, especially when they are costing 70+ dollars to purchase. That the enhanced "performance" mode should only be an option when dealing with 4K, and hopefully something we won't have to mess with starting with PS6.

Even worse when indie/AA developers are selling games for much cheaper without these performance issues.
Current Events » Whats the deal with Pokemon ZA?
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