Why do you care? I thought it wasn't your problem.
Voting IS saying NO to something. In 2020, I said NO to Trump being president again.
Countless others. Until there isn't.
There were countless socialists, until they weren't. Countless trade unionists, until they weren't. Countless Jews, until they weren't.
When those people were being dragged away to the camps, how many people decided it wasn't worth the time or effort to stop it? That someone else would surely prevent things from getting out of control?
And uh, if you picked up on what I'm referring to and think "Hey, that's an extreme comparasion"!
Yes.
Because we're dealing with a man who openly wants to be a dictator, reminds Holocaust survivors of Hitler, and seems to be a friend to the neo nazis.
Seems like going to a voting booth and saying NO to all of that is a lot easier than the alternatives.
Not voting Biden in this context is saying you see a Trump victory as an acceptable consequence.
So if he wins, don't complain when you lose human rights. You didn't care when it mattered after all.
It's one thing to supposedly oppose Trump but not be willing to do the one and only thing that's even possible for most people to do to make that opposition tangible (i.e., just vote for Biden).
It's another thing entirely to broadcast that shitty attitude and expect to get patted on the head for "standing up for principles" or whatever other rationalization is being used.
lmao see, none of you can do it. you have to act like you have some kind of moral high ground when you absolutely don't.
It's a lot less about sticking it to Biden or even the Dems on any personal level than it is to simply refuse to vote for someone you think is a terrible person who's enabling genocide, regardless even of how demonic the alternative is. You're asking people to go to the polls and affirmatively vote for someone they think is enabling genocide , in some cases against their own family members or people they actually know. Just stop to consider that for a moment.If Biden loses, will that bring the vicitms of Israel's genocide back? Will it stop further bloodshed. Why is it that when the stakes at home have never been higher, that we find it unconscionable to continue participating in the American election process because of our questionable foreign allies?
The argument that the other side is much worse (and it is) is not going to be very persuasive when you can't make an affirmative argument for your candidate that justifies his phenomenally limp and cowardly attitude towards what's happening in Gaza, and something like genocide is a bit larger than the typical single-issue voting strategy.
At what point did I say I was better than anyone?
I'm just pointing out that if you don't stand up against Trump, you're choosing to not be an obstacle.
A positive vision that inspires hope works pretty well actually. Democrats just refuse to present one and seem to prefer "the other guy is terrible" as their only strategy.
Fear doesn't have the effect of making people think in the exact way you'd hope or expect. It often simply paralyzes and embitters. That's why you need hope.
I've tried to explain it to you countless times: people do not vote or participate in politics based on the mindset you present in these topics. Even someone like Humble Novice who is constantly pushing the "save democracy" button thinks Biden is actually good, not just that we're choosing between slow ruin and fast ruin. People check out if they think that's the case.
Oh, no, you aren't better than me - I'm just worse than you. That's very different /s
edit: adding /s in case it isn't clear
lmao see, none of you can do it. you have to act like you have some kind of moral high ground when you absolutely don't.
lmao see, none of you can do it. you have to act like you have some kind of moral high ground when you absolutely don't.You can have a government that allies with foreign nations that kill people, or you can have a government that dooms its own citizens to suffering AND allies with foreign nations that kill people.
I'm just worse than you.If you're not voting, yes. You only care about yourself or your little personal bubble, and when asked to do the simplest thing (vote), you want a reward for doing it.
In my scenario LGBT people and minorities aren't prosecuted, meanwhile yours, they do.
I feel pretty good about it.
In my scenario LGBT people and minorities aren't prosecuted, meanwhile yours, they do.To be a little more accurate (since single votes so rarely decide elections, and this is a favorite deflection by the usual suspects), voting against Trump is at least trying to prevent persecution of minorities.
I feel pretty good about it.
If you're not voting, yes. You only care about yourself or your little personal bubble, and when asked to do the simplest thing (vote), you want a reward for doing it.
You can have a government that allies with foreign nations that kill people, or you can have a government that dooms its own citizens to suffering AND allies with foreign nations that kill people.
The moral decision is clear. If you have the opportunity to save a lot of people out of a burning building, but not all of them, do you choose to save no one because it's the arsonist's fault if anyone dies? Are you in the clear if you make no decision at all?
I don't want a reward, I want to not be called a Trumper or equated as such.
You don't want to be considered one of them, but you also don't want to vote against them?
Why?
I don't want a reward, I want to not be called a Trumper or equated as such.
More "if you're not with us, you're against us" rhetoric.
My "scenario" is that one of these two people are already going to win, and nothing I do will change that. And, that sucks, but it's the world we live in.No one gives a fuck about your statistics. Shut up and vote against Trump.
Again, the majority of you on this board seem to equate this one action of not voting for Biden in this specific election to complicity in destroying all that is good in the world, when that's completely ridiculous - not only in concept, but statistically.
I don't want a rewardYou've said you do, though. $10 or a box of donuts.
By your own logic, why should anyone care what you want, when you don't give a shit about what anyone else wants?
You are being as transactional as Trump, so if the shoe fits, just wear it.
You're not voting against Trump because... of rhetoric?
You've said you do, though. $10 or a box of donuts.
No one gives a fuck about your statistics. Shut up and vote against Trump.
My participation in this election, or any other, has no effect on any of this. I do no have the opportunity nor ability to save anyone.I'm being completely genuine. It is objectively better moral character to make the least harmful choices presented to you. And honestly, I'm only even making this argument because apparently me being scared out of my fucking mind and begging people to help stop the fascist GOP gets written off as "a bad way to campaign for Biden". Fuck Biden and fuck the Democrats. I'm not voting for them for their benefit.
Also, allow me to add exhibit G of said moral posturing.
And back to the moral posturing.Do you actually understand words or just repeat ones that you believe humans use in certain situations?
Again, the majority of you on this board seem to equate this one action of not voting for Biden in this specific election to complicity in destroying all that is good in the world, when that's completely ridiculous - not only in concept, but statistically.
FortuneCookie is the raindrop who insists holds no responsibility for the flood.
I can't tell you anything at all.
You've already decided to use your martyr complex to make millions of actual martyrs.
That's just being bad at math.
Strawman? If that's what you want to call the very words you yourself used , so be it. You're not voting against Trump, despite clearly not wanting to be associated with Trump voters.
Why not vote against him?
I'm no martyr. I just won't be an ally to genocide.
What agency does a raindrop have? It's blown by the wind.Taking metaphors literally is unbecoming.
I can't accept a president's responsibility if I have none of their power.
I'm no martyr. I just won't be an ally to genocide.
I'm not going to do the math for you. The facts are that low turnout favors Republicans. The Republican candidate is a fucking monster psychopath.
Your inaction is complacency and you don't get to dress it up as anything else. Maybe your county will be red. Maybe it won't. But you do not get to sit there and pretend like voting does nothing.
And to add on, anything less than literally the bare minimum of civic responsibility is lazy and disgusting.
I'm pretty okay w/ being called lazy and disgusting, but you will not lay any of this at my feet. It's that simple.
I was pointing out your continued moral high ground crap,
I've stated here, and elsewhere, on numerous occasions at this point, my not participating has many reasons - including, but not limited to mathematical possibility. Your question has been answered.
So why care if the occasional person doesn't think so highly of you? Statistically most people don't know you exist.
What you want is for me to set aside the many issues I have w/ our government as a whole, w/ the Democrats, and w/ Joe Biden, and the very fundamentals of math to waste my own time when there's literally no point. All so that a bunch of random people I don't know, on an Internet forum, will feel better about my posts.Every word of this is wrong (as expected).
It's less about me
It's less about me, although inevitably I'm in the same position, but it annoys me to see people on here dogpiling people for having done literally nothing wrong. The much easier thing for me to do would be to put you all on ignore, but that prevents me from interacting w/ potentially okay people outside of political topics, and also removes an avenue of discussion and time wasting on slow days.
Oh, but unfortunately by not voting you're absolutely doing nothing to prevent the genocides to come.
Nothing was stopped by a fence sitter.
You have a citizen's responsibility, and one of those responsibilities is making sure the leader you have a decision over isn't the worst.
If I have a responsibility to my nation to vote, then my nation has a responsibility to provide me with a candidate worth voting for.Ugh. This is exactly backward. Reality has inflicted a candidate (Trump) on the US who simply must be stopped. That's all there is to it.
If I have a responsibility to my nation to vote, then my nation has a responsibility to provide me with a candidate worth voting for.
Not to change the subject, but do you honestly believe a vote will stop fascism?And if they don't, then you'll leave your fate and the fate of everyone around you up to chance? Because you won't vote for the less bad option on your own?
We have individuals who want to see all Asian people, Black people, gay people, Hispanic people, Jewish people, and trans people wiped out or relegated to indentured servitude. But they'll walk away if they lose the vote.
It seems a bit like saying that Hitler would have stuck to painting if he'd lost a coin toss.
If I have a responsibility to my nation to vote, then my nation has a responsibility to provide me with a candidate worth voting for.
Not to change the subject, but do you honestly believe a vote will stop fascism?
We have individuals who want to see all Asian people, Black people, gay people, Hispanic people, Jewish people, and trans people wiped out or relegated to indentured servitude. But they'll walk away if they lose the vote.
It seems a bit like saying that Hitler would have stuck to painting if he'd lost a coin toss.
Not to change the subject, but do you honestly believe a vote will stop fascism?
We have individuals who want to see all Asian people, Black people, gay people, Hispanic people, Jewish people, and trans people wiped out or relegated to indentured servitude. But they'll walk away if they lose the vote.
It seems a bit like saying that Hitler would have stuck to painting if he'd lost a coin toss.
Not to change the subject, but do you honestly believe a vote will stop fascism?
Hypothetically speaking, let's say Hitler claimed out of Hell onto Earth. He wants to continue where he left off before he did the world a favor and paint the walls with his brains.I'd love to show him some gay artist that got into art school.
Someone gives you a huge ass gun and tells you to shoot Demon Hitler in his bitch face.
Do you shoot him? Are you like "Fuck yeah, let's send Hitler back to Hell!"
.... or do you need more motivation? For some reason.