I didn't say he didn't need to. I said he shouldn't have to, because -Then why bring up the risk of him losing voters in the first place? Biden shouldn't have to appeal to anti-genocide voters, yet at the same time he has to support Israel to appeal to pro-genocide voters? Explain this contradiction?
would tell those people even harder to shut the fuck up and vote against Trump.Cool. Then join in on pressuring Biden into changing his stance so you no longer have to yell stfu at people protesting against a genocide. Instead, direct that anger towards Biden for refusing to budge and the people who want more bombs to be dropped.
Then why bring up the risk of him losing voters in the first place?
If Biden has no choice but to alienate a part of his base, then surely he should pick the option that (1) risks losing the least amount of voters, and(2) doesn't involve the death of tens of thousands of people.
I agree. I think he should stop the genocide.
I will still vote against Trump.
Cool. Then join in on pressuring Biden into changing his stance so you no longer have to yell stfu at people protesting against a genocide. Instead, direct that anger towards Biden for refusing to budge and the people who want more bombs to be dropped.I hate Biden, but I still have to vote for him no matter what. He shouldn't need to earn our votes because we shouldn't be voting for him, but against Trump.
Let's just keep this simple. Despite Biden supporting genocide by sending weapons to Israel and knowing all we have for this election is just two candidates winning (Biden/Trump). Will you still vote for Biden?
Yes. Will you rescind your vote for Biden knowing full well that Trump will absolutely obliterate Gaza with glee, as well as the rights of domestic minorities, LGBT, and women?
I still haven't heard anyone explain how loudly and publicly declaring that we'll vote for Biden regardless of what he does or doesn't do is supposed to help stop the genocide or lead to ANY good outcome in the medium or long term.I'm gonna fucking die if the GOP wins, so I don't give a shit if that sends the wrong message to the Democrats. Fuck this fucking country for forcing me into this position.
What's stopping Biden from deciding he only has to be 0.0001 better than Trump at that point?
That's what Democrats have been doing since Clinton at least and we've all paid dearly for it. It's not free to operate that way. It's not some brilliant strategy. It causes lasting damage, in terms of policy, in terms of the party's reputation, and in terms of democratic participation. When parties and candidates have captive populations and no incentive to improve, history shows that they stagnate and popular participation dies. If you're mad about the huge swaths of non-voters, this "vote only against the Republican and ignore what the Democrat does" is literally reason number one why they don't vote! And you're stating it baldly and expecting people to swallow it! That itself will bring fascism, if not this time, then soon.
The one thing I can guarantee is that ordinary people won't accept that. They absolutely won't. They'll check out entirely before accepting that.
It causes lasting damage, in terms of policy, in terms of the party's reputation, and in terms of democratic participation. When parties and candidates have captive populations and no incentive to improve, history shows that they stagnate and popular participation dies.
Even I lost my appetite for these threads, they are basically the same 2-4 posts over and over. Impressed by some of yallI'm definitely over it. I won't be participating in any after this one.
I'm gonna fucking die if the GOP wins, so I don't give a shit if that sends the wrong message to the Democrats. Fuck this fucking country for forcing me into this position.Unfortunately, a lot of transgender leftists would rather do just that than vote for Biden out of sheer irrational spite. The fact that they believe he's no better than Trump when it comes to transgender rights really says a lot about how toxic American leftism has become compared to their international counterparts.
It's so insane that people can get jaded enough by the political process that they'd rather give up and die than continue treading water.
It's so insane that people can get jaded enough by the political process that they'd rather give up and die than continue treading water.
Alarmist rhetoric
Its not alarmist though.
They will be fine, its not their own lives they gamble with.Some leftists have given up on electoralism and now feel that accelerationism is their only chance of bringing about the revolution.
Its not alarmist though.
Seriously what the fuck is up with supposed leftists in these topics always downplaying trump? Very sus.
So what is your solution since the current admin have been attacking peaceful protesters.Vote.
Bernie supporters were alarmed about everything but that was too much alarmism for Dems. But all of a sudden you gotta be super alarmed in the general. Eh. Maybe the mood whiplash is what's not really resonating with people.
Vote blue.Fixed it for you. Unfortunately, certain people refuse to do that out of an irrational need to virtue signal.
Everybody fucking vote blue.
Vote.See this is why these threads are like crack. A guy point blank asks the question "what is your solution since the current admin have been attacking peaceful protesters".
Everybody fucking vote.
I'm gonna fucking die if the GOP wins, so I don't give a shit if that sends the wrong message to the Democrats. Fuck this fucking country for forcing me into this position.
It's so insane that people can get jaded enough by the political process that they'd rather give up and die than continue treading water. Apparently politics overrides our natural human instincts of survival.
"what is the solution to the current administration shutting down peaceful protestors".
The Biden administration isn't shutting down protests lmfaoApologies for paraphrasing, but let's not pretend Biden didn't broadly refer to the protests as antisemitic, please.
The fuck are you even talking about?
And Bernie himself was pleading for people to vote Hillary and Biden in order to stop trump. I guess he was being "alarmist"
Apologies for paraphrasing, but let's not pretend Biden didn't broadly refer to the protests as antisemitic, please.
Apologies for paraphrasing, but let's not pretend Biden didn't broadly refer to the protests as antisemitic, please.And yet, that party still isn't the one promising to outlaw protesting and systemically strip tens of millions of Americans of rights because they think anyone who opposes them is a lesser being.
If democrats can threaten us with republicans every single election, what's their incentive to do better? Moreover, if that's the strategy, and given that the two-party system will guarantee a republican victory at some point, what's stopping project 2025 from being project 2029 or project 2033 or project 2037? Feels like we're just delaying things instead of actually fixing them.The Democrats aren't the ones threatening us! I'm fucking alarmed by how unalarmed the Dems are about this election! Project 2025 should be getting posted all over the place to highlight how dire things are! And that isn't fucking happening for some reason!
The Democrats aren't the ones threatening us! I'm fucking alarmed by how unalarmed the Dems are about this election! Project 2025 should be getting posted all over the place to highlight how dire things are! And that isn't fucking happening for some reason!Well they're not going to go into detail because that would mean them actually doing something about it. Instead they'll say things like "trump is dangerous" and "we need to stop trump" because the only solution they propose is "vote for us".
But at least you have proven you are another fake leftist who views the very real and imminent threat of the GOP as Democrat fearmongering.I'm a fake leftist because I want real solutions and not just "vote harder" while democrats continue to do nothing when voted in?
Describe how the Democrats losing would get us closer to ending the GOP.
I don't get the point of these arguments. It comes down to funamentally different moral apparatuses. Some believe in taking greater good/necessary evil action to minimize harm while others feel one shouldn't endorse any harm at all (regardless of how much damage occurs in the absence of their participation). It's basically a choice between a better world and personal innocence. I don't really see a way to reconcile these views.
Wait. Why do we all agree on voting for Democrats every single time? I thought that teaches Democrats bad lessons and actually accelerates the GOP fascist takeover?Just because we agree on voting democrat every single time, doesn't mean that people at large will. There's also the problem where guaranteeing your vote means to democrats that they can take your vote for granted. Given that democrats have all the power here, what can they do to stop the genocide?
If that's not true, then I was right the entire time and there is no point to disagreeing with me.
And no shit we have to do more than vote. Doesn't change the fact that we need to vote.
Well they're not going to go into detail because that would mean them actually doing something about it. Instead they'll say things like "trump is dangerous" and "we need to stop trump" because the only solution they propose is "vote for us".So they're threatening us by being deliberately vague and treating this like any old election?
Just because we agree on voting democrat every single time, doesn't mean that people at large will. There's also the problem where guaranteeing your vote means to democrats that they can take your vote for granted. Given that democrats have all the power here, what can they do to stop the genocide?That's independent from the election for me, so I can't tell you. The only thing on my mind for mid November is the GOP being defeated.
There's also the problem where guaranteeing your vote means to democrats that they can take your vote for granted.
Have you learned nothing from last 10 years? The tea party took over Republican Party by being the reliable voters primary challengers fought over. Thats the strategy for taking over the party.They also pushed out anyone who didn't agree with them. Meanwhile for democrats it's "vote blue even if poo" and to apparently accept genocide.
So they're threatening us by being deliberately vague and treating this like any old election?People absolutely have been bringing up all of this, and the answer every time is BUT GENOCIDE.
Shouldn't they go all in on the fear and then do nothing anyway since they are still better than the GOP?
"Trump stinks" is a lot less alarming than "the GOP is forcing women to die in childbirth, and they are going to annihilate all LGBTQ people" How does vague status quo nothingness motivate people more than direct and real fear?
People absolutely have been bringing up all of this, and the answer every time is BUT GENOCIDE.The democratic party in a nutshell, except they don't even pretend to care about genocide.
Because they dont care about LGBTQ+ lives, they dont care about Ukraine, they dont care about reproductive rights, they dont care about climate change, and to be perfectly honest, they dont care about Palestine. They care about justifying their own laziness and apathy.
Have you learned nothing from last 10 years? The tea party took over Republican Party by being the reliable voters primary challengers fought over. Thats the strategy for taking over the party.
Have you learned nothing from last 10 years? The tea party took over Republican Party by being the reliable voters primary challengers fought over. Thats the strategy for taking over the party.
It's also telling that the only question that's ever brought up is "how can we make the Democrats change?" And not, "why are the Republicans constantly being awful insurrectionist shitheels?"
They were reliable general voters because their guys actually won the primaries.
Their guys won the primaries because billionaires like Koch, Adelson, and Murdoch funded them against the establishment, the reverse of what happens in Democratic primaries.
Progressives don't have billionaires, corporations, super PACs, cable networks, mainstream media. Tools are limited.
Nope. Their guy lost in 08 and 12 but they definitely showed up to vote against Obama.
Boebart and Greene are not in Congress because a billionaire plucked them out of obscurity. They are there because they appeal to primary voters.
Trump got more votes than Romney and McCain both times he ran. Clearly some radicals weren't falling in line for the establishment.Thats just a function of time.
Thats just a function of time.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/64aea61b.jpg
Perhaps, but I sincerely doubt Trump got every single voter who Romney or McCain got. He probably lost a decent amount of sane conservatives but gained a larger amount of extremist conservatives in their place.
For example, Hillary supporters made up 16% of McCain voters in 2008 ( https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-were-those-clinton-mccain-crossover-voters/ ). Trump likely didn't inherit much of that group, mainly since he was running against Hillary herself. He had to make the deficit up elsewhere.