Three years after Fortnite- maker Epic Games sued Apple and Google for allegedly running illegal app store monopolies, Epic has a win. The jury in Epic v. Google has just delivered its verdict and it found that Google turned its Google Play app store and Google Play Billing service into an illegal monopoly.
After just a few hours of deliberation, the jury unanimously answered yes to every question put before them that Google has monopoly power in the Android app distribution markets and in-app billing services markets, that Google did anticompetitive things in those markets, and that Epic was injured by that behavior. They decided Google has an illegal tie between its Google Play app store and its Google Play Billing payment services, too, and that its distribution agreement, Project Hug deals with game developers and deals with OEMs were all anticompetitive.
Google affairs and public policy vp Wilson White said the company plans to appeal the verdict, and that The trial made clear that we compete fiercely with Apple and its App Store, as well as app stores on Android devices and gaming consoles. You can read theirfull statement further down.
In a post on its company blog, Epic Games said, Todays verdict is a win for all app developers and consumers around the world. It proves that Googles app store practices are illegal and they abuse their monopoly to extract exorbitant fees, stifle competition and reduce innovation.
Its a historic victory, particularly because Epic mostly lost its fight against Apple two years ago when Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers decided that fight had nothing to do with apps.
now for steam and apple
Apples app policy (preventing you to install apps from any other source than apple itself) is seen as less monopoly, as the one of Google that allows you do install what tf you want on your phone (including other app stores).
Apples app policy (preventing you to install apps from any other source than apple itself) is seen as less monopoly, as the one of Google that allows you do install what tf you want on your phone (including other app stores).This is why this verdict doesn't make sense to me. Android phones allow you to install apps from multiple different app stores, or even just directly from the web. How is that a monopoly?
Google affairs and public policy vp Wilson White said the company plans to appeal the verdict,
I'm confused, it looks like apple has more monopoly while Google don't.
Why the one who restrict you to install only from their store is not a monopoly, but the one who allowed you to install from others is a monopoly?
*sigh* Just once I'd like for a company so obviously guilty of the charges they were found guilty of to not be the biggest pieces of shit on the planet and just own up to their fuckery. Nope, gotta appeal because cash is king and if they don't have ALL the cash, one of them might one day in the future be mistaken for a member of the proletariat. What a scandal that would be!They should appeal. I have 3 different app stores on my Android phone, and if that fails I can just install apps straight from a web browser. You can load up on apps without ever giving Google anything. Try that with Apple on an iphone. There is no monopoly. This jury got it wrong.
Epic tried to contract phone manufacturers to pre-bundle Fortnite/EGS on new Android phones (As many apps already do). Google went out of their way to stop this (Basically in secret), to force Epic to continue using the default app store so that Google would keep getting a cut from Fortnite sales.
Going by reddit comments, this is what fucked them compared to the Apple case:
Is this the same Epic that was pulling shitty practices themselves when people tried to buy their games through Steam?
Going by reddit comments, this is what fucked them compared to the Apple case:
Is Steam a monopoly?
Is Steam a monopoly?
The fact that stuff like Epic Games Launcher and GOG Galaxy exist? No, of course not.
The fact that stuff like Epic Games Launcher and GOG Galaxy exist? No, of course not.
The jury made a really stupid decision, there's no such monopoly on Android thanks to side loading. I have major issues with Google in general but on this one specific point? I'm forced to side with them since Google Play is objectively not your only option on Android.Google absolutely has a monopoly even with side loading. In order to download from an alt store, you have to know about the alt store. Most people only use the google play store so most people will never find the app if its not on the play store
Going by reddit comments, this is what fucked them compared to the Apple case:Eww...glad Google stopped it. Pre-bundling anything with new hardware reminds me of PCs having bloatware for days, but it's especially bad on Android as any app pre-bundled with the phone software is a bitch to remove.
Considering Epic existing, no.
To me this case is just Epic trying to take down competitors so they can monopolize it themselves.
Eww...glad Google stopped it. Pre-bundling anything with new hardware reminds me of PCs having bloatware for days, but it's especially bad on Android as any app pre-bundled with the phone software is a bitch to remove.
Holy shit I just read that steam takes 30% of revenue from game sales. How the fuck do developers survive that?
Holy shit I just read that steam takes 30% of revenue from game sales. How the fuck do developers survive that?Increased sales quantity by being on steam helps
Holy shit I just read that steam takes 30% of revenue from game sales. How the fuck do developers survive that?I think it's industry standard. I believe I've seen that same percentage for Steam, GOG, and both the PS and XBox stores. I imagine most just see it as a marketing cost. Having your game on Steam is going to put way more eyes on it than trying to sell it on your own.
They've called Steam a monopoly and have sunk a lot of money trying to displace Steam with the Epic Game Store but I don't think they've done anything dodgy on the Steam platform itself. They bought timed exclusives and the like.
Google absolutely has a monopoly even with side loading. In order to download from an alt store, you have to know about the alt store. Most people only use the google play store so most people will never find the app if its not on the play store
Google absolutely has a monopoly even with side loading. In order to download from an alt store, you have to know about the alt store. Most people only use the google play store so most people will never find the app if its not on the play store
Just because people are ignorant of their options doesn't mean there's a monopoly. What's stopping Epic from putting on the mobile version of their site a link to the apk for Fortnite or even straight up their own app store if they decided to make one? Absolutely nothing.Monopoly is about market share, not options. The google play store absolutely dominates the App Store market on android
What's stopping Epic from putting on the mobile version of their site a link to the apk for Fortnite or even straight up their own app store if they decided to make one? Absolutely nothing.
Also, about the 30% cut:I don't know about lower sales, but Steam does reduce its cut to 25% after you make $10 million and then again to 20% after you make $50.
I would have to check the details on Steam again, but in the google Playstore the 30% cut is only for revenue above 1 million USD per year,
Not sure if 1 million per app or per developer.
Monopoly is about market share, not options. The google play store absolutely dominates the App Store market on android
That's the thing though. Google doesn't give a shit if it's some bloatware app from Samsung or whoever.Samsung can install their Samsung shit on their own phones all they want because that's to be expected, but like hell will I accept it if they accept kickbacks from some 3rd party developer to include their app as well. I don't want your damned Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Spotify, TikTok, Facebook, or any other app not directly related to the use of my phone or brand ecosystem pre-installed, especially if it's done in a way that all I can do is disable it.
But a successful game where they miss out on their 30% microtransaction cut? Better pay off those companies so it doesn't happen.
Nothing, they already do:
https://www.fortnite.com/mobile/android/android/android/android/android/android/new-device
Just noticed that their own link is a bit broken with all these "android/android/android" stuff... That's why the download button didn't work, lol
Monopoly is about market share, not options. The google play store absolutely dominates the App Store market on androidWhat exactly should Google do about this? Redesign their app store to be worse so that more users will be enticed by their competitors?
Example: I play Pokemon Go. If I want to buy in-game currency, I can get it from the Google Play store, the Samsung App store, or directly from Niantic's web store. At different times the different shops run deals so I can shop around. This is one of the best reasons to own an Android phone.Google restricts a lot of in-app purchases on their devices. Kindle for instance, you can read anything you buy on the android app, but you can't actually buy anything from the app. Or Amazon's shopping app, speaking of e-books only, I can still buy a toaster or what have you, just not an e-book. Google made it so you can only buy books on your android device from the Play Store.
What exactly should Google do about this? Redesign their app store to be worse so that more users will be enticed by their competitors?Not illegally pay companies to stifle competition?
Google restricts a lot of in-app purchases on their devices. Kindle for instance, you can read anything you buy on the android app, but you can't actually buy anything from the app. Or Amazon's shopping app, speaking of e-books only, I can still buy a toaster or what have you, just not an e-book. Google made it so you can only buy books on your android device from the Play Store.
And I believe the in-app currency must go through the Play Store to buy it in-app.
Honestly, the whole thing is probably a lot of legalese and I'm not a lawyer.
And I believe the in-app currency must go through the Play Store to buy it in-app.In my experience, in-app purchases default to whichever store you downloaded the app from. For example if you download Pokemon Go from the Samsung App store, buying currency in-app purchases it from Samsung.
Not illegally pay companies to stifle competition?I need a bit more info. Specific to this issue, what companies is Google paying, what are they paying them to do, and what makes these payments illegal?
In my experience, in-app purchases default to whichever store you downloaded the app from. For example if you download Pokemon Go from the Samsung App store, buying currency in-app purchases it from Samsung.
I haven't personally tried it, but I'd assume if you want to buy kindle books without supporting Google, you just download the Kindle app from a different source. It's in the Samsung App store for example. Or get it straight from Amazon.
I need a bit more info. Specific to this issue, what companies is Google paying, what are they paying them to do, and what makes these payments illegal?https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632818
The fact that stuff like Epic Games Launcher and GOG Galaxy exist? No, of course not.
If only three providers is enough to not worry about monopolies, pricing, or collusion in an industry, we shouldn't have any complaints against mobile providers or cable TV companies, right?I think the difference there is that you don't have to use any of these services at all. You can absolutely just sell your vidya gaym on your own website. Cable and cell towers are an entirely different thing which costs millions and millions of dollars to establish.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632818How is Google offering incentives to app creators to keep their apps on the Play Store any different from Epic Games paying developers for Epic Games Store exclusivity? Or Microsoft or Sony paying for exclusive titles on their platform?
I'm not a lawyer, I don't know shit. I'm assuming doing this is illegal because, y'know, they just lost a court case over it.