Current Events > The vibes in Final Fantasy VIII were unbeatable

(+) Yeah! (+)

ellis123 posted...

A major part of hating FFVIII has always been about being too dumb to read the instructions/figure them out by intuition.

And here I thought the weak cast, silly plot, bad graphics, tedious mechanics, endless tutorials, and dull world were the reasons people hated it.

darkace77450 posted...

bad graphics,

What?

darkace77450 posted...

bad graphics

Nah that was 7

BlackScythe0 posted...

What?

VII and VIII's graphics have aged poorly. VI's crisp sprites did not age poorly. Nor did IX's more colorful and stylized graphics.

darkace77450 posted...

VII and VIII's graphics have aged poorly. VI's crisp sprites did not age poorly. Nor did IX's more colorful and stylized graphics.

Whether they aged poorly (and VIII's definitely didn't) doesn't mean a whole lot to the whole "bad graphics" line. For the time VIII was arguably the best looking game that wasn't on the PC, absolutely not something that considered "bad graphics." At most it largely just proves my point that it's people drunk on the Spoony Kool-Aid more than those actually from the era when it was new that are making utterly BS comments and attempting to pass them off as something legitimate. There were absolutely people who loved it during that era sheerly because it looked that good, and the fact that people have regurgitated Spoony slop over and over really doesn't change the fact that it was overwhelmingly loved compared to every FF before it sans VII on release.

darkace77450 posted...

VII and VIII's graphics have aged poorly. VI's crisp sprites did not age poorly. Nor did IX's more colorful and stylized graphics.

Uh... VIII was an amazingly cinematic game. It is the game that got me into rpgs and it's graphics are the thing that initially caught my attention as a child as shallow as that may be.

darkace77450 posted...

VII and VIII's graphics have aged poorly. VI's crisp sprites did not age poorly.

Yeah, 16 bit games aged much better graphically than the early 3D games

ellis123 posted...

Whether they aged poorly (and VIII's definitely didn't) doesn't mean a whole lot to the whole "bad graphics" line. For the time VIII was arguably the best looking game that wasn't on the PC, absolutely not something that considered "bad graphics." At most it largely just proves my point that it's people drunk on the Spoony Kool-Aid more than those actually from the era when it was new that are making utterly BS comments and attempting to pass them off as something legitimate. There were absolutely people who loved it during that era sheerly because it looked that good, and the fact that people have regurgitated Spoony slop over and over really doesn't change the fact that it was overwhelmingly loved compared to every FF before it sans VII on release.

You keep invoking Spoony like I'm supposed to know or care who they are or what their opinions are. It's a pretty weak attempt to dismiss criticism, to be honest with you.

BlackScythe0 posted...

VIII was an amazingly cinematic game.

I'll give you the CCs and some of the town backgrounds were good, but the monsters and especially the world map were a mess of muddy polygons.

I am going to be very biased but that's just because FF8 was the first real JRPG I played back in 2000 as a 10-year-old kid. So it has a very special place in my heart.

But that doesn't mean I won't excuse it's horrible story (especially in the final third of the game). Discs 1 and 2 are amazing to this day. Disc 3 onward and the cracks really started to show for the rushed development of the game. The junction system was also very polarizing and remains mixed to this day. I didn't really understand it back in 2000 as a little kid, but I appreciate it today.

That being said, the graphics, characters, and soundtrack are all phenomenal. My only complaint here is the silly orphanage plot twist. And that all of the main characters minus Squall and Rinoa basically have no major character development. You may be able to excuse Selphie with the whole Trabia Garden thing, but even that part lasts for all of twenty minutes and then is never brought up again. But Zell, Quistis, and Irvine have no real developments as characters after the opening hours with them. They could remain absent for the entire rest of the game and it wouldn't affect any outcomes. Squall and Rinoa, and their romance, take center stage in the game.

But Squall is one of my favorite video game characters, and in my opinion has a great character arc.

I would have really loved to have seen Square's full scope of the game is they hadn't been restricted by development time. The original plan was the have the game be split almost 50/50 between Squall and present day story, and Laguna and the past story.

This is why I also agree that FF8 gains the most to benefit from a modern day remake, which I don't think will ever happen. They could reimagine the combat and junction system, expand upon the world and story, and give us more Laguna and Esthar/Sorceress War backstory. And flesh out Ultimecia and time compression a bit more. A modern FF8 remake akin to the FF7 Remake trilogy would be a dream come true for me.

darkace77450 posted...

I'll give you the CCs and some of the town backgrounds were good, but the monsters and especially the world map were a mess of muddy polygons.

It's called the PS1.

TomClark posted...

I know that it's controversial for me to say that it's my favourite FF game, but can we at least all get on the same page and agree that it's got the best soundtrack in the series?

Not when VI exists.

Demigod_Elessar posted...

I would have really loved to have seen Square's full scope of the game is they hadn't been restricted by development time. The original plan was the have the game be split almost 50/50 between Squall and present day story, and Laguna and the past story.

Yeah apparently the game would have been 8 discs long had they done what they originally wanted to. My guess is that the backstories of the other party members would have been done in more detail. Like maybe you would have had a chance to find Selphie's old GF, or you could have had an arc where Zell actually confronts his adopted mom, or so on.

That said, I think the game was absolutely incredible when it comes to the atmosphere and the music. The town environments and the music accompanying them were just phenomenal, and while I do agree that the junction system could have been executed better...it was still a very enjoyable game nonetheless.

darkace77450 posted...

You keep invoking Spoony like I'm supposed to know or care who they are or what their opinions are. It's a pretty weak attempt to dismiss criticism, to be honest with you.

Spoony made this video review of the game that--even as someone who loves the game--is positively hilarious. He hated it (though he does own a lot of its merchandise...) but the way he describes things is just a riot.

I think to sum up my feelings for 8, you only need to look at the intros of the PS era games.

VII opens up right into the action. They tell you who these characters are, what they want, and gives you a clear problem and path of action. You're immediately pulled into the world and are given reasons to care about it and the people who inhabit it.

IX is a much slower burn, but we're introduced to a diverse cast of characters with unique backgrounds and motivations, and have clashing personalities that interact in interesting and entertaining ways. You don't really know what this world's deal is, but the cast is just so likable you want to see what they do next.

VIII by comparison...you're in a school. You've got a dysfunctional "rag tag" party at the beginning, but with a leader whose personality actively inhibits any interesting interactions. The opening story is mercenary work that you have no reason to be invested in outside of the dull characters. Your main source of tension is a lame jackass rival. VIII is just not engrossing as a story, outside of a few highlights.

It is very pretty to see and hear, though. >_>

The most memorable area for me has always been deling city. I think it was because of the awesome laguna segments that made this happenin'-looking night-life town stand out in my memory compared to every other FF8 related location.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

VIII by comparison...you're in a school. You've got a dysfunctional "rag tag" party at the beginning, but with a leader whose personality actively inhibits any interesting interactions. The opening story is mercenary work that you have no reason to be invested in outside of the dull characters. Your main source of tension is a lame jackass rival. VIII is just not engrossing as a story, outside of a few highlights.

It is very pretty to see and hear, though. >_>

I think for me personally I was actually into FF8's intro segments a lot because I just so happened to become a high school freshman myself in 1998, and so by year 2000 and me picking up FF8 for my birthday that february I was smack in the middle of that highschool teen target demographic . It had a kind of wish fullfilment sorta' thing going on where it was all like "man, squall is so kewl. Go talk to a wall, heh. These hot girls are all into me. Yeah he is totally me". I also thought being a highschool final fantasy mercenary guy with at least 2 girls minimum having some sort of crush on him was the coolest concept and that you needed to take tests to earn pay raises/actually making a wage was neat. I actually lost a bit of interest where later in the game the school became way less important.

Yeah I grew out of those self-insert fantasies a few months after the fact, but when I look back in time I can remember why I was into the start of the game with my derp teenage self, lol.

I agree MadDogg. The game was definitely targeting the grade school to College demographic at the time, which plays into how a lot of us 20-30+ year olds now look back on it and think "Wow lame". But at the time, being at school, relating to being the rebel lone wolf, having baddies fall for you, fighting monsters and getting income for our rank/grade seemed dope.

SwayM posted...

FFVIII didn't disappoint anyone when it came out and now we all collectively hate it.

First FF game that I disliked. I still think disc 1 is very good, and then it falls off a cliff. I remember playing it in 1999 and coming to the disappointing realization of I dont think I like this?

8 is messy but its a fun mess.

I just hate the complaint about drawing. You dont need to do it. You get enough draws by doing it occasionally, maybe even once a battle. There are draws on the map. You can do it with cards. People that sit there and draw for hours are making themselves miserable thinking this is the way the game was meant to be played.

_____Cait posted...

8 is messy but its a fun mess.

I just hate the complaint about drawing. You dont need to do it. You get enough draws by doing it occasionally, maybe even once a battle. There are draws on the map. You can do it with cards. People that sit there and draw for hours are making themselves miserable thinking this is the way the game was meant to be played.

The triple triad and then turning cards into magic stock and items thing is both a blessing and a curse.

Its a blessing because honestly, it actually is a pretty fun simple minigame (but god forbid you don't look up the queen of cards enforcing the local region rules system and then having random spread everywhere shits up the place........like I did originally, lol) and so if you like card playing you are going to have stacks of cards to make whatever you need and at the same time break the game wide open.

Its a curse because, well, if you don't like playing cards then you have to deal with the basic default shitty drawing from random points (sometimes annoyingly invisible) and enemy encounters........and you do this over, and over, and over, and over etc. There is also those times where its like "man, I want to replay FF8 for old time's sake. At the same time I sort of just want to enjoy the story this time........but I GOT to play triple triad for these cards. Siiggggg" (This is me, when it comes to me buying FF8 remastered on my PS4 but never actually going past the beginning dollet fight segment).

All in all even with the cards allowing us to bypass the drawing part the system at a basic level still sucks so much ass (the stats thing aside, this type of system makes you barely want to actually use your magic attacks because we all rightfully have that "if I actually use my magic then I have less of it and my stats will go down" mentality), and the day a FF8 remake comes along to scrap the whole thing can't come soon enough (or at least make it where you get massive stacks of magic automatically from draws, all points are visible no matter what and common, AND that hooking your magic up to your stats is pretty minimum in the long run............actually screw it, just introduce regular-ass MP to FF8 please).

I like FF8 but it is probably my least favorite of the ps1 era games. I just really wish there was more focus placed on the party characters and their individual character arcs.

Also I think that junction and draw should have been limited to discourage grinding. You don't have to do it, but you almost feel like you need to do it or else you're gimping stats.

_____Cait posted...

8 is messy but its a fun mess.

I just hate the complaint about drawing. You dont need to do it. You get enough draws by doing it occasionally, maybe even once a battle. There are draws on the map. You can do it with cards. People that sit there and draw for hours are making themselves miserable thinking this is the way the game was meant to be played.

The game doesn't exactly make it clear that you can get magic from cards. You have to learn Quezacotl's Card ability, and then learn the Card Mod ability. But these abilities aren't automatically learned, nor do you know that learning Card *unlocks* Card Mod. The game instead teachings the GFHP+% abilities and the SumMag+% abilities first, so the automatic order of the GF ability learning actually encourages you to summon GFs, which is precisely what you *should not* do.

I honestly think that "that one boss" that could not be beaten with summoning GFs should have been much earlier in the game

_____Cait posted...

8 is messy but its a fun mess.

I just hate the complaint about drawing. You dont need to do it. You get enough draws by doing it occasionally, maybe even once a battle. There are draws on the map. You can do it with cards. People that sit there and draw for hours are making themselves miserable thinking this is the way the game was meant to be played.

There are two complaints about this game that fit together as conspicuously as Africa and South America, but nobody seems to realize what they imply.

1. Grinding is pointless because of enemy level scaling.
2. Drawing is tedious.

Drawing is the new grinding. Of course it's tedious. You wouldn't have much fun grinding to max level as soon as you could in any other game either! In fact, 8's is merciful in this regard because you don't have to watch the battle intro/outro a million times and they cap your "level" by only making a few spells available at a time, so that if for some reason you feel like you have to do it, it's for like twenty or thirty minutes at a time.

It's always been a top 3 Final Fantasy for me. Game had so much atmosphere

darkace77450 posted...

You keep invoking Spoony like I'm supposed to know or care who they are or what their opinions are. It's a pretty weak attempt to dismiss criticism, to be honest with you.

You kind of don't need to know who Spoony himself is, his opinions in the review have been adopted by every FF8 hater and just repeated ad nauseum to the point that they've retroactively become "the popular opinion".

TMOG posted...

You kind of don't need to know who Spoony himself is, his opinions in the review have been adopted by every FF8 hater and just repeated ad nauseum to the point that they've retroactively become "the popular opinion".

Yea someone saying that VIII had bad graphics and expecting to get taken seriously is just wild. Absolutely wild.

Honestly, FF8 took too many vibes from FF7's in terms of a modern and yet technological world. It's prolly why they went for a primitive look for FF9.

SwayM posted...

FFVIII didn't disappoint anyone when it came out and now we all collectively hate it.

Funny how that works.

Wouldn't catch me saying shit though. Love the game.

funny, it disappointed me when it came out.

Cassie posted...

funny, it disappointed me when it came out.

8 was rotten balls. Some fine elements, but the "game" part of it was just absolute garbage. Its way more fun to talk about than it is to play.

I looked for my Brady Games strategy guide for FF8 last night and couldn't find it

Now I'm gaslighting myself into wondering if I ever owned it in the first place.

But having just looked up the PDF I'm sure I had this fuckin thing. I had all of them except for IX because IX was literally just a giant advertisement for playonline

Now I wish I knew what the hell I did with it.

what's more wild is that ff8 is literally what everyone wants from a final fantasy these days: complete control over how to build your party while also being turnbased

Shrek posted...

what's more wild is that ff8 is literally what everyone wants from a final fantasy these days: complete control over how to build your party while also being turnbased

I don't really see your point, it's far from the only game in the series that lets you do that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CAVrwaZI80

i enjoyed the game. the gameplay was fun, i actually liked the junction mechanics though drawing was a bit of a pain. could have done without the card game, and i wish the narrative was a little more direct.

it had epic music, eyes on me of course comes to mind among others. i'm a sucker for a good romance in my games. but i probably consider 10 as having the best music.

Letsago posted...

I don't really see your point, it's far from the only game in the series that lets you do that

it's literally the only game in the series that lets you do that.

SwayM posted...

I looked for my Brady Games strategy guide for FF8 last night and couldn't find it

Now I'm gaslighting myself into wondering if I ever owned it in the first place.

But having just looked up the PDF I'm sure I had this fuckin thing. I had all of them except for IX because IX was literally just a giant advertisement for playonline

Now I wish I knew what the hell I did with it.

The whole page ad for Frosted Cheerios in the back of the FF8 guide is totally why Frosted Cheerios are my favorite Cheerio
.

SwayM posted...

But having just looked up the PDF I'm sure I had this f***in thing. I had all of them except for IX because IX was literally just a giant advertisement for playonline

Way back then, I went and printed out the *entire* guide for FF9, I have all those little playonline additions in a pile of papers alongside the guide.
It's as thick as the strategy guide itself lol.

I enjoyed FF8.

I remember playing the heck out of it when I was young, but it was really long and sometimes I just got tired and switched to another game.

Shrek posted...

what's more wild is that ff8 is literally what everyone wants from a final fantasy these days: complete control over how to build your party while also being turnbased

Shrek posted...

it's literally the only game in the series that lets you do that.

1
2
3
5
7 (except limit breaks, which also applies to 8)
10 (again, except limit breaks)
13 (kinda)
Tactics (if we count Tactics)

Just off the top of my head. I almost included 6, but each character in that game at least has a unique action that nobody else besides Gogo can perform, so it doesn't really apply.

I like everything but the combat and shitty forced mini games
its a wonderful game with great music and fun characters. If only it had fun battles

Kanaya413 posted...

I like everything but the combat and shitty forced mini games
its a wonderful game with great music and fun characters. If only it had fun battles

It's interesting you mention the mini games. After FF7 I was bracing for them, but I actually found them mostly enjoyable. Though the Timber train mission could've been better

I think FF8 is super overhated.

There are obviously things like its OST and it's really detailed FMVs for the time that I think most people would credit it for (though I did see one dedicated FF8 hater who claimed that there's not a single good song in the OST, which, uh...)

I give it a ton of credit for its pacing. It's almost wall-to-wall great setpieces where there are tons of things happening. Almost no dungeon feels like filler (IE, I think of like, Tales or something where you have a lot of random in-between dungeons that don't serve any real purpose in the story or have anything especially unique to them, but are just like, generic ice dungeon that's there to pad out the runtime.) and there are a ton of great action sequences. The beach landing, the train mission, the assassination mission, the prison escape, the missile base, the garden civil war, etc, etc, etc are all really strong setpieces that I think work super well.

Hot take #1: Its battle system/junction system is ambitious and interesting. The basic ideas of having to stock things in battle while also trying to win, and juggling keeping things junctioned for stats vs. using your abilities, are both really interesting concepts. It only kind of falls apart when you dive into the technical stuff like how the leveling works and abusing things like the card game for item conversions to break it. I recently rebeat FF8 and explicitly committed to not abusing anything broken and just playing it straight, and I found it to be super well-balanced as a system, even if it did admittedly take a lot of restraint on my part.

Hot take #2: Its plot isn't bad. Yeah, Ultimecia's goal is kind of weird and abstract, but it's functionally just "I want to make a world where I'm an all powerful god and fuck everything else." The vast majority of concepts are established well enough either in the main plot or through the lore. I can't really defend the whole amnesia twist, admittedly, which is rather contrived, but I feel like the vast majority of the plot is perfectly serviceable.

Hot take #3: FF8's cast is perfectly fine. Yeah, it has issues balancing the characters' relevance, but that's kind of just FF in general. A lot of 7's cast falls off hard in relevance after their introductions, 9 has a few characters that never get anything or stop mattering very early on, half of 10's cast flat-out never gets to do anything of note, and 12 can be parsed down to like three characters and nothing really changes. Everyone gets a solid introduction in 8 and then at least one major moment to shine in the story after (IE, Selphie during the missile base/Trabia Garden/piloting the airship, Irvine during the assassination mission, Zell during Balamb's occupation) and while I would have taken more, I think that they have their moments and have solid plot presence.

I'm kind of an eternal FF8 defender, but I loved it as a kid when it was my second FF after I played 9 first and kind of hated it (though I went back recently and loved it, so there's that), and I revisited it recently on a PS1/2 FF replay binge and I think it holds up very very well.

It has its flaws, for sure, but I personally think it's a very strong game regardless and I feel like the outright loathing that it gets is kind of unfair to it.

dotsdfe posted...

FF8's cast is perfectly fine.

I disagree hard. Squall is a jackass and yet for some reason almost everyone wants his friendship and validation. Everyone wants him to lead and take charge because apparently his mysterious loner vibe is what qualifies him for it. Everyone thinks they can crack open his rough edges to find some kinda softy hero.

His trauma does not justify his behavior.

Shrek posted...

what's more wild is that ff8 is literally what everyone wants from a final fantasy these days: complete control over how to build your party while also being turnbased

FF7 remake and rebirth gave me everything I need in a modern final fantasy game. (Story quality debates aside). If square can keep delivering those type of systems with character building and gameplay then I'm good.

VeggetaX posted...

Squall is a jackass and yet for some reason almost everyone wants his friendship and validation.

Ever been in a high school?

VeggetaX posted...

I disagree hard. Squall is a jackass and yet for some reason almost everyone wants his friendship and validation. Everyone wants him to lead and take charge because apparently his mysterious loner vibe is what qualifies him for it. Everyone thinks they can crack open his rough edges to find some kinda softy hero.

His trauma does not justify his behavior.

I blame a lot of this on the localization. Watched a video that went over all his "whatever's" and he had a more varied list of responses. He did have a catch phrase that wasn't used as often, but it probably translates closer to something like "Excuse me" instead of "Whatever".

Charged151 posted...

I blame a lot of this on the localization. Watched a video that went over all his "whatever's" and he had a more varied list of responses. He did have a catch phrase that wasn't used as often, but it probably translates closer to something like "Excuse me" instead of "Whatever".

Lol, your sig fits perfectly talking about Squall's speech mannerisms

Letsago posted...

Lol, your sig fits perfectly talking about Squall's speech mannerisms

What can I say... I love my ellipses...

I think if FF8 fixed the difficulty to a normal levelling system, made it so that Junctions weren't super important to the games combat, and cut the last bit of the story, everything about it would be top notch. I was fine with Edea being mind controlled by Adel, but everything with Ultimecia was a bit much.

Letsago posted...

It's interesting you mention the mini games. After FF7 I was bracing for them, but I actually found them mostly enjoyable. Though the Timber train mission could've been better

Im really really REALLY bad at all of them so them being forced for progress is bad for me. Same for pretty much any other game with them