Current Events > Couldn't Aragorn have asked the ghosts to attack Mordor? (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

The orcs seemed utterly unable to fight the ghosts and the ghosts seemed ok with the bargin of fighting in exchange for their freedom from the curse.

Just put Frodo behind the ghosts on a little cart pulled by Bill, point the ghosts at Mt Doom and knock off for lunch?

Even if the ghosts said no, he still could have asked. This is what happens when you put people in charge because of bloodlines and not merit.

The ghosts being able to harm anyone was made up for the movies so they'd have to create an entirely new scenario for the end of the story.

From a narrative standpoint: Possibly could backfire? Similar to Aladdin keeping the Genie enslaved for a little longer instead of just releasing him. Worked out for a while but then bit him in the ass.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

The ghosts being able to harm anyone was made up for the movies

That's not strictly true

Everyone just shit themselves and ran away from them while someone (can't remember if it was Aragorn, Legolas or the Dwarf) thinks "I'm not even sure if their weapons still have bite. Their real weapon is fear" or something along those lines.

But I don't think it's ever flat out said "Actually they can't hurt anyone." that seems kinda dumb.

Either way it's moot. If all the orcs in Mt Doom flee, Frodo still has a straight shot

He probably could have but he kept his word which was the main point of that scene with them at the end. It was to show Aragorn was honorable even in the face of desperate odds.

"Hey, guys, I have a great idea! Let's lead a group of ghosts just barely tolerating us for freedom to fight the guy they used to worship who has vastly more experience controlling the dead than we do!"

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the books didn't the ghosts mostly just get used to scare off those dudes on the boats which aragorn and co used to pick up some human reinforcements to help out at gondor?

Like they didn't even appear at the battle itself?

I hate how the movies used the ghosts. Way to shit on the hard work and victory of the people of Gondor and Rohan Peter Jackson.

And they honored their deal and oath. Making them do more would be dishonorable of Aragorn.

McmadnessV3 posted...

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the books didn't the ghosts mostly just get used to scare off those dudes on the boats which aragorn and co used to pick up some human reinforcements to help out at gondor?

Like they didn't even appear at the battle itself?

Right.

Southernfatman posted...

I hate how the movies used the ghosts. Way to shit on the hard work and victory of the people of Gondor and Rohan Peter Jackson.

Hey! The people of Hondor and Rohan did plenty and it was their victory even when the Oathbreaker reinforcements.

Southernfatman posted...

And they honored their deal and oath. Making them do more would be dishonorable of Aragorn.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Euyf031e1sk

ScazarMeltex posted...

Correct. It's one of the few things I dislike about the films. The use of the ghosts as a sort of deus ex machina. In the books they use the ghosts to help them chase off the southern and corsair attacking the coastal regions of Gondor, then gather up the forces from that region and sail up the river to arrive at Gondor to help at the critical moment.

In the movie the ghosts single handedly turn the tide. In the books, even after Aragorn comes from the south, and the Sons of Elrond and the Rangers from the north show up, it still takes hours of desperate fighting to finally break Mordor's army.

As long as RotK was I wouldn't mind seeing that longer battle :P

Southernfatman posted...

I hate how the movies used the ghosts. Way to shit on the hard work and victory of the people of Gondor and Rohan Peter Jackson.

And they honored their deal and oath. Making them do more would be dishonorable of Aragorn.

Right.

I also repeat Sauron has vastly more experience controlling the dead. Bringing a horde of ghosts to Mordor is asking for disaster

Southernfatman posted...

I hate how the movies used the ghosts. Way to shit on the hard work and victory of the people of Gondor and Rohan Peter Jackson.

He did the same thing with elves at helms deep so I'm not surprised.

LightSnake posted...

"Hey, guys, I have a great idea! Let's lead a group of ghosts just barely tolerating us for freedom to fight the guy they used to worship who has vastly more experience controlling the dead than we do!"

Exactly. I mean, during The Hobbit, they were calling him the Necromancer because they didn't know who he was, but they sure as hell knew what he did.

mercurydude posted...

Exactly. I mean, during The Hobbit, they were calling him the Necromancer because they didn't know who he was, but they sure as hell knew what he did.

I mean the oathbreakers seemed pretty sentient. Not like Salron could break their curse

McmadnessV3 posted...

He did the same thing with elves at helms deep so I'm not surprised.

And also killed off Haldir in the process. He doesn't die in the book... boo and hiss!

In fairness movie Haldir was very lame and I'm glad he's dead.

Everyone be like "Where Tom Bombadil!?"

But no one be like "Where Glorfindel!?"

LightSnake posted...

I also repeat Sauron has vastly more experience controlling the dead. Bringing a horde of ghosts to Mordor is asking for disaster

That too.

McmadnessV3 posted...

He did the same thing with elves at helms deep so I'm not surprised.

And that too.

mercurydude posted...

And also killed off Haldir in the process. He doesn't die in the book... boo and hiss!

And that too.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Everyone be like "Where Tom Bombadil!?"

But no one be like "Where Glorfindel!?"

As much of a book purist I am, I at least understand why they're left out. I used to be annoyed about Arwen replacing Glorfindel, but nowadays it's fine. The Scouring of The Shire not being there halfway irritates me, but the movie was already long enough.

At least the elves at Helms Deep weren't OP.

Southernfatman posted...

As much of a book purist I am, I at least understand why they're left out. I used to be annoyed about Arwen replacing Glorfindel, but nowadays it's fine. The Scouring of The Shire not being there halfway irritates me, but the movie was already long enough.

He was replaced by Legolas in the cartoon

St0rmFury posted...

At least the elves at Helms Deep weren't OP.

neither was Legolas in the books, great archer yes, but he wasn't soloing oliphants. Glorfindel though..

St0rmFury posted...

At least the elves at Helms Deep weren't OP.

They were shooting over the walls and killing armoured targets where the ideal spot was a small opening below the neck.

Not as ridiculous as other elf shenanigans but still.

Yeah but at least they're still portrayed as flesh & blood and can be killed just like any other. Also, charging at spear welding Uruk Hai with swords, wtf?

St0rmFury posted...

Yeah but at least they're still portrayed as flesh & blood and can be killed just like any other. Also, charging at spear welding Uruk Hai with swords, wtf?

Yeah, but then lies the other problem. Their deaths completely overshadow the rohirrim, which is what the conflict is supposed to be about.

the ghosts were a one time use ability and he chose the battle of minis tirith

They could have but Aragorn specifically promised if they helped the next battle he'd forgive their prior betrayal and release them. So they did, and he did. Aragorn is a noble guy. He wasn't gonna turn back on the promise and at that point they didn't really know they'd have to march into Mordor directly. They were still hoping Frodo could sneak in the backdoor and take care of business.

The deal was that they would help him in Gondor, not Mordor.

Bleuets posted...

The deal was that they would help him in Gondor, not Mordor.

Yeah but he made the deal.

lilORANG posted...

They were still hoping Frodo could sneak in the backdoor and take care of business.

It's kinda ridiculous how bad a plan that was.

Especially with the meta knowledge that Tolkein said Frodo would never have been able to destroy the ring.

Because Aragorn breaking his word to the Ghost Army that just wiped out a lot of Mordor's forces might all of a sudden decide (being oathbreakers and cowards) "OK, well we'll just kill YOU then."

UnfairRepresent posted...

Everyone be like "Where Tom Bombadil!?"

But no one be like "Where Glorfindel!?"

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a6812834.jpg