Current Events > why aren't kids into modern comic books?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Comics today is mostly just pandering to nostalgia. They aren't introducing many new characters. Often times they do introduce a new character and then you never hear from them again.

Poison Ivy has 3 daughters that only appear a few times in a short run and then never again.

SauI_Goodman posted...

Probably online video gaming. Fortnite etc.

That has nothing to do with it because manga is still selling gangbusters.

WingsOfGood posted...

The real difference is the Mangaka is the original author and so they have some pride usually in their work at least for the bigger hits.

The original authors of most American comics are long dead so they hire people who don't share the same vision or who just wants a paycheck and does what some bigwig says.

That's also only true for Marvel & DC. They are what's generally popular, but not representative of the entire industry. Like I said earlier in this topic, the comic where I got my name from has been written and drawn by its original creator for 3 decades now. And practically every single comic that tells a story from start to finish like all the comics I listed earlier in this topic are written/drawn by the same creative team from start to finish.
Everybody's currently going gaga over Invincible because of the animated series, a comic written and drawn by the same people for its entire run.

A lot of these conversations seem to stem from the fact that people are ignorant of both industries. Manga isn't some bastion of creative freedom. The most famous example being DBZ where everything after Freeza was basically an editorial mandate. Toriyama did "what some bigwig says" as you put it. We wouldn't have Androids 16,17,18, Cell, Goku coming back,.... if it weren't for a corporation telling Toriyama what they wanted to sell.

TheSavageDragon posted...

The most famous example being DBZ where everything after Freeza was basically an editorial mandate. Toriyama did "what some bigwig says" as you put it. We wouldn't have Androids 16,17,18, Cell, Goku coming back,.... if it weren't for a corporation telling Toriyama what they wanted to sell.

This simply isn't true. There was some editorializing but most of those things were decisions made by Toriyama because he didn't like how certain things turned out after he drew them up.

Price: too damn expensive

Accessibility: either go out of your way to find a comic shop or go to a regular bookstore to pick up the trades which are months to years out of date by the time they're printed.

Content: you get 20 pages a month. You'll finish that comic in 5 minutes and forgot you've cared by the time the next one drops. You can buy more comics to scratch the itch in the interim, but the aforementioned price will balloon the cost up ridiculously high.

CountCorvinus posted...

There was a bunch of kids at my local comic shop for free comic book day.

Side note, I took Little Devsman to a shop for FCD and, while I get these are essentially ads, the selection was pitiful regardless, lol.

I grabbed my allotment too because why the hell not, and it was like:

The Marvel and DC offerings look WAAAAAAAY too tryhard...
Star Wars? I guess that could be ok.
Um... Ass Creed comics? I guess if it's free?
Then I just gave up and grabbed Street Fighter vs Final Fight, lmao

WingsOfGood posted...

This is a stupid and pointless argument.

Yes, yes it is.

WingsOfGood posted...

Comics are vastly more expensive.

Note that I agreed multiple times in this very topic that comics are more expensive and that it is a legit issue many have with the industry.

WingsOfGood posted...

I proved you can watch the biggest titles free legally.

Saying you can watch 3 anime free online does not support the claim that anime is free. Using outliers to make sweeping generalizations isn't logical.

WingsOfGood posted...

What in the actual fuck is your goal here? Are you an out of touch exec at marvel or DC or something?

I see we have reached the point where you resort to personal attacks and assumptions rather than actually discussing the points we're making.

WingsOfGood posted...

There is no reason to refuse reality here

Then why consistently do so? I did not make the claim that an entire industry build around making money like any other industry just hands out all its products for free. That was you.

We just had our annual free comic book day. Tons of kids getting comics including my son. It was a blast with a town wide cosplay contest too. I met Eric Talbot, TMNT comic artist. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3d9bf98f.jpghttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/96557b15.jpg

Tyranthraxus posted...

This simply isn't true. There was some editorializing but most of those things were decisions made by Toriyama because he didn't like how certain things turned out after he drew them up.

Okay, my bad. Seems like I was wrong about that. Might just be a very persistent rumor.
But the point still stands that the manga industry isn't about creative freedom or else it wouldn't be an industry to begin with. Editorial will generally trump creative freedom in both comic and manga industries.

TheSavageDragon posted...

Saying you can watch 3 anime free online does not support the claim that anime is free. Using outliers to make sweeping generalizations isn't logical.

It is way more than 3.

Those are just important because One Piece is 3 months worth of content.

Naruto is also 3 months worth of content.

And Demon Slayer is a new popular one.

I think most of AoT is also still free.

Do you even anime?

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

Side note, I took Little Devsman to a shop for FCD and, while I get these are essentially ads, the selection was pitiful regardless, lol.

I grabbed my allotment too because why the hell not, and it was like:

The Marvel and DC offerings look WAAAAAAAY too tryhard...
Star Wars? I guess that could be ok.
Um... Ass Creed comics? I guess if it's free?
Then I just gave up and grabbed Street Fighter vs Final Fight, lmao

Not sure what you mean by "looking too tryhard" but the Blood Hunt prequel was really good.

WingsOfGood posted...

It is way more than 3.

Those are just important because One Piece is 3 months worth of content.

Naruto is also 3 months worth of content.

And Demon Slayer is a new popular one.

I think most of AoT is also still free.

Do you even anime?

Yes, "I anime". Now can you admit that anime isn't free? Or are we going to continue to pretend a multi billion dollar industry is built around goodwill and magic?

TheSavageDragon posted...

Yes, "I anime". Now can you admit that anime isn't free? Or are we going to continue to pretend a multi billion dollar industry is built around goodwill and magic?

Then name several more free anime on Crunchyroll. Can you do it? If you anime you can.

TheSavageDragon posted...

A lot of these conversations seem to stem from the fact that people are ignorant of both industries. Manga isn't some bastion of creative freedom. The most famous example being DBZ where everything after Freeza was basically an editorial mandate. Toriyama did "what some bigwig says" as you put it. We wouldn't have Androids 16,17,18, Cell, Goku coming back,.... if it weren't for a corporation telling Toriyama what they wanted to sell.

Can we just let "Goku came back because of fan/editorial demand" die. The buu arc was Toriyama fully unrestricted in every sense of the word, Goku came back because he didn't like writing Gohan as the protagonist. Even the 16/17/18/Cell stuff was because of his ex-editor he didn't even work with anymore going all "nah that's lame", not corpo demands

Not to mention some Mangaka just are like "yea I am gonna take my time now" like Berserk and Jojo and HxH.

Oh ya guess what else is free to watch legally?
HxH
JoJo to like s4 or so

I mean, big 2 comics has a lot going against it that makes it pretty inaccessible.

-To me there's always been a stigma of comics have dumb premises and dumb melodrama

-The "read chapter 1 bro" thing is a factor. Non-readers get the impression that they have to know a web of mythology and jump between 16 tie in books to read a Spidey run they're interested it. Its a wrong impression, but it is the impression.

-Frankly, anime and manga piracy are often synonymous with those communities, not really the case with comics.

WingsOfGood posted...

Then name several more free anime on Crunchyroll. Can you do it? If you anime you can.

So I need to jump through hoops in order to prove to you that I watch anime? So you can continue to pretend anime in general is free? Not to mention that it's a ridiculous thing to ask as anyone can find out that info in a google search that takes all of 5 seconds.

WingsOfGood posted...

Not to mention some Mangaka just are like "yea I am gonna take my time now" like Berserk and Jojo and HxH.

Oh ya guess what else is free to watch legally?
HxH
JoJo to like s4 or so

Though with how the industry is like, only those with hugely popular series are really allowed do that, and sometimes not even then considering Kubo ended Bleach while his elbow or shoulder needed treatment

Tyranthraxus posted...

Comics today is mostly just pandering to nostalgia. They aren't introducing many new characters. Often times they do introduce a new character and then you never hear from them again.

They aren't introducing many new characters at Marvel and DC because the creators have realized they get proper fucked in terms of royalties when it comes to merchandising and especially movies because it's all work for hire. That's why a lot of the big writers and artists are also doing work for Image and other indies because they at least get to control what they create and profit from any potential additional media.

TheSavageDragon posted...

So I need to jump through hoops in order to prove to you that I watch anime? So you can continue to pretend anime in general is free? Not to mention that it's a ridiculous thing to ask as anyone can find out that info in a google search that takes all of 5 seconds.

Through hoops? This is info anyone into anime already knows. You claimed you did.

CountCorvinus posted...

Not sure what you mean by "looking too tryhard" but the Blood Hunt prequel was really good.

Maybe it was. I haven't read anything from those two in a long time, so I just sorta looked at the cover and got all boomer ruffled over it not looking like the comics back in my day or whatever.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Frankly, anime and manga piracy are often synonymous with those communities, not really the case with comics.

Basically. But as mentioned multiple very popular and very long series are 100% free legally and will take nearly a year to finish.

mehmeh1 posted...

Can we just let "Goku came back because of fan/editorial demand" die. The buu arc was Toriyama fully unrestricted in every sense of the word, Goku came back because he didn't like writing Gohan as the protagonist.

Already commented on that. See post 59.

mehmeh1 posted...

Even the 16/17/18/Cell stuff was because of his ex-editor he didn't even work with anymore going all "nah that's lame", not corpo demands

And who do you think that editor worked for? It wasn't Toriyama they answered to. Editorial generally works in the publisher's best interests. As mentioned several times now, neither industry is about creative freedom unless you get into indies.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

-Frankly, anime and manga piracy are often synonymous with those communities, not really the case with comics.

Yup, for every pirated comics site there are several dozen manga and anime sites in existence. Though that's likely due to the fact that we weren't able to get our hands on many of them legally until relatively recently.

TheSavageDragon posted...

Yup, for every pirated comics site there are several dozen manga and anime sites in existence. Though that's likely due to the fact that we weren't able to get our hands on many of them legally until relatively recently.

You (redacted) comics?
Now I think I see why you are arguing with me. But keep in mind this thread is about kids not you.

buy comic books.
buy Anime blu rays.
buy Anime figures
buy statues of comic book characters

if you're going to consume content and enjoy it you should at least support the artists in some way :)

WingsOfGood posted...

Through hoops? This is info anyone into anime already knows. You claimed you did.

Again, it's information literally anyone with half a brain can acquire within 5 seconds. Not only does it prove absolutely nothing, it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Whether I watch anime or not does not somehow make the ridiculous claim that anime is free a reality. You can run with that goalpost to the other side of the planet and it would still not make that a fact.

WingsOfGood posted...

You (redacted) comics?
Now I think I see why you are arguing with me. But keep in mind this thread is about kids not you.

Again with the assumptions. The fact that I'm aware of things existing does not mean I partake. I'm aware heroin exists, I don't do heroin.
And you don't need to delude yourself into thinking that's why I'm having this discussion with you. I'm having this discussion because of that nonsense claim I keep going back to and you keep avoiding.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

buy comic books.
buy Anime blu rays.
buy Anime figures
buy statues of comic book characters

if you're going to consume content and enjoy it you should at least support the artists in some way :)

While I agree, we should also not pretend like they are struggling poor artists. Oda has a net worth of $200 million.

When you that rich I don't think you have the right any longer to complain about some dude on min wage at Starbucks using certain means to enjoy your work. But most fans will want to buy figures etc IF they can afford it.
But the great news is One Piece is 100% free to watch legally!!

Oda can't live on the money he made years ago. if people stopped buying One Piece merch he would go broke.

TheSavageDragon posted...

I'm having this discussion because of that nonsense claim I keep going back to and you keep avoiding.

You mean me listing multiple highly rated anime you can watch entirely free legally?
One Piece, HxH, Naruto, Jojo

Yet you haven't mentioned 1 comic that I can read start to finish entirely free.
Wonder why.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

Oda can't live on the money he made years ago. if people stopped buying One Piece merch he would go broke.

???
$200 million is enough to last through his great grandchildren.
Was that a joke post?

he still needs to pay his employees and other stuff so it's not like he keeps all of it.

Beveren_Rabbit posted...

he still needs to pay his employees and other stuff so it's not like he keeps all of it.

Net worth is what he has. This is not revenue lol. One Piece probably makes like a billion.

Yep One Piece has made 22 billion.

Oda cut is 200 million it would seem. That is kinda sad but at the same time he is rich af. Also you buying more figures not gonna make him much but the publisher who is taking probably several billion.
https://howchoo.com/movies/20-highest-grossing-anime-franchises-of-all-time/

WingsOfGood posted...

You mean me listing multiple highly rated anime you can watch entirely free legally?
One Piece, HxH, Naruto, Jojo

No, I mean the ridiculous "do you anime" sideroad you were trying to take. By trying to get me to provide info that's easily searchable for literally everyone.

WingsOfGood posted...

Yet you haven't mentioned 1 comic that I can read start to finish entirely free.
Wonder why.

Gee, maybe because I didn't claim comics are free.

Its because no average kid, nor parent will pay $4-10 for a single issue. Literally just 21 pages about of content. Thats just one issue.

its an extremely expensive hobby. Especially when at every kids hands they have a phone which they can watch any movie, show and have thousands of games to play, mostly free. At any time

plus beyond that a kid would need their parent most likely to drive them to a store, which those are kinda few now and far.

they arent easy to find like grocery stores, drug stores, magazine stores and more like before. And if they were, theyre way more than the price of a candy bar like they once were. The price is beyond an impulse buy range

TheSavageDragon posted...

Gee, maybe because I didn't claim comics are free.

Oh? So how can they beat anime?

$2.99 to a kid is like $10 for for an adult >_<

WingsOfGood posted...

Oh? So how can they beat anime?

What? Who said anything about beating anime? I'm done with you and the weirdass sideroads you keep trying to take. It's quite clear you're not capable of any sort of logical discussion.

TheSavageDragon posted...

What? Who said anything about beating anime? I'm done with you and the weirdass sideroads you keep trying to take. It's quite clear you're not capable of any sort of logical discussion.

You wanted to argue about comics being less expensive than free anime.
Yet you couldn't counter that anime is free when I gave plentu of examples.
Then I asked about a comic to read free and you agreed it doesn't exist.
Yet One Piece does.

Smh

You aren't done with me you are upset you LOST. And I gave you an out but you didn't take it. It was a stupid argument because anyone with any anime knowledge knows what I said.

dhampire1 posted...

And if they were, theyre way more than the price of a candy bar like they once were. The price is beyond an impulse buy range

I dunno man candy bars ain't cheap anymore either.

The grocery stores I shop at, even the American shit is almost $2 and the actual good stuff is $4+.

TheSavageDragon posted...

Anime isn't free though. Unless you're pirating it.

Just a reminder what he claims is not logical arguments.

He said anime is not free.

I listed:
One Piece all 1063 or w\e episodes entirely free
Naruto - entirely free if you do the sub
HxH- entirely free
Attack on Titan - like 3 or 4 seasons free
Demons Slayer - s1 free
JoJo like 3- 4 seasons free

And this isn't all of them.

But my man goes off "nooo you are being illogical!"

Why can't people just admit when they are wrong? You can be wrong. It is ok.

Whats that phrase for when theres too many options and you dont even want to bother? Like how many Batman, Superman stories from different authors are there, which ones do they know where to start with let alone which ones are worth the time and money.

Seaman_Prime posted...

Whats that phrase for when theres too many options and you dont even want to bother? Like how many Batman, Superman stories from different authors are there, which ones do they know where to start with let alone which ones are worth the time and money.

Overwhelming

Seaman_Prime posted...

Whats that phrase for when theres too many options and you dont even want to bother? Like how many Batman, Superman stories from different authors are there, which ones do they know where to start with let alone which ones are worth the time and money.

Comics are kind of the king of this problem, yeah.

Even when DC tried to fix it, it was still like

"Hey guys we're rebooting our entire everything and trimming it down to just the most popular properties."
"Cool, how many series are there now?"
"52."
O_O

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

Comics are kind of the king of this problem, yeah.

Even when DC tried to fix it, it was still like

"Hey guys we're rebooting our entire everything and trimming it down to just the most popular properties."
"Cool, how many series are there now?"
"52."
O_O

And then those issues cross over gradually making you have to branch out or miss things.

I think a big part of it is just the long wait between issues. You get like 20 pages that last you all of 7 minutes, then the story just stops until next month. By the time the next issue comes out, people have lost interest. I know that was my big problem when I tried getting into comics a while back.

FuriousFox posted...

I think a big part of it is just the long wait between issues. You get like 20 pages that last you all of 7 minutes, then the story just stops until next month. By the time the next issue comes out, people have lost interest. I know that was my big problem when I tried getting into comics a while back.

True, that's why you're better off just trade waiting. It's still a long wait in between, but at least you get a decent chunk of content to consume before having to wait yet again.

WingsOfGood posted...

Yep One Piece has made 22 billion.

Oda cut is 200 million it would seem. That is kinda sad but at the same time he is rich af. Also you buying more figures not gonna make him much but the publisher who is taking probably several billion.
https://howchoo.com/movies/20-highest-grossing-anime-franchises-of-all-time/

Should be a lot more if you ask me. That's the problem with Manga and Anime. The creators make so little its embarrassing. But their publishers make astronomically more. Oda only making 200 million is a testament of how wide spread One Piece is.

Ivany2008 posted...

Should be a lot more if you ask me. That's the problem with Manga and Anime. The creators make so little its embarrassing. But their publishers make astronomically more. Oda only making 200 million is a testament of how wide spread One Piece is.

Just capitalism in general. Same for music artists and actors and sports.