Current Events > Godzilla x Kong (Minor Spoilers)

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FortuneCookie
03/29/24 6:30:15 PM
#1:


Going from Godzilla Minus One to this was a lot like going from The Dark Knight to Batman Forever. It's an amazing tonal whiplash.

I'm not going to recommend against seeing it, but it is more of a two-hour video game than a traditional movie. They rely pretty heavily on the frequent monster appearances and heavy final fight to keep audience enthused.

This movie is highly derivative of other properties. They have banshees from Avatar. You have Planet of the Apes and Temple of Doom action going on. Kong has an Infinity Gauntlet. They have their own Baby Yoda / Baby Groot. To be fair though, who doesn't?

It's almost like a drinking game to spot what they borrowed and from whom. It's kind of a lazy film in that regard. I wouldn't be too surprised if Adam Wingard was over the Godzilla/Kong experience with the last movie and just winging it this time.
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ReiRei89
03/29/24 6:52:47 PM
#2:


I actually prefer the Monsterverse movies because they remind me of the old goofy Godzilla monster mash flicks.

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VeggetaX
03/31/24 1:21:53 AM
#3:


This is kinda unfair expectation. This is like watching Captain America Winter Soldier and then expecting every single MCU movie after to be just as good or better when you know it's unlikely.

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ssb_yunglink2
03/31/24 1:25:24 AM
#4:


VeggetaX posted...
This is kinda unfair expectation. This is like watching Captain America Winter Soldier and then expecting every single MCU movie after to be just as good or better when you know it's unlikely.
Itd be more like watching winter soldier and then watching Blade lmao


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FortuneCookie
03/31/24 1:40:11 AM
#5:


VeggetaX posted...
This is kinda unfair expectation. This is like watching Captain America Winter Soldier and then expecting every single MCU movie after to be just as good or better when you know it's unlikely.

The Monsterverse is an unrelated series. It's not a sequel downgrade or anything. But, one that subject, Civil War was nearly as good as Winter Soldier.

I'm not saying that Adam Wingard could have kept the pace with Godzilla Minus One. His film probably went into production only shortly afterward and he likely had no idea what that film's quality or tone would be like. If anything, it's more like two students turning in their papers for the same assignment.

Godzilla Minus One receives an A+.
Godzilla x Kong receives a C-.

Most people who have given their opinion on it have acknowledged that they knew going in that it would be stupid fun and that it's all that the movie needed to be.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...
Itd be more like watching winter soldier and then watching Blade lmao

Blade had characters that I cared about. This film did not.
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Turbam
03/31/24 1:41:46 AM
#6:


Did Kong get cucked again?

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FortuneCookie
03/31/24 1:46:18 AM
#7:


Turbam posted...
Did Kong get cucked again?

It's literally the only effort the writer/director/producer put into the film. It's like he brainstormed over subtle ways to make Kong look bad, then phoned everything else in.
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Prestoff
03/31/24 4:22:48 AM
#8:


Yeah the only way I can enjoy these films was when I turned my brains off and just went with the motion. It was more of a Kong movie than a Godzilla one.

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Null_Gain
04/01/24 8:14:07 PM
#9:


Given how general audiences don't care for hard sci fi, I was wondering how the movie would use it to bring the plot along but not scare audiences off. It seems to have worked out

The movie def borrowed of GotGs' trend of having popular, old music used in action/comedy sequences.

I thought it was amusing that Godzilla was on his own side quest for almost the entire movie

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Yazarogi
04/01/24 8:20:25 PM
#10:


this is the showa era for monsterverse and it's awesome.

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darkmaian23
04/03/24 11:30:10 AM
#11:


This was honestly my favorite Godzilla movie.

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hop918
04/03/24 12:28:12 PM
#12:


FortuneCookie posted...
They have their own Baby Yoda / Baby Groot. To be fair though, who doesn't?

Son of Kong released in the 1930s, they were absolutely drawing from that, much like the other movies in this universe have drawn from older movies of the monsters.

It's literally the only effort the writer/director/producer put into the film. It's like he brainstormed over subtle ways to make Kong look bad, then phoned everything else in.

Kong was beating Skar King in their 1st fight until he brought out Shimo, knocked Godzilla out for a solid 20-30 seconds that they had to cut to him dragging Godzilla to the portal, then pretty easily handled Skar King the 2nd time they fought.

They in no way made Kong look bad in this movie.
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FortuneCookie
04/03/24 12:45:27 PM
#13:


hop918 posted...
Son of Kong released in the 1930s, they were absolutely drawing from that, much like the other movies in this universe have drawn from older movies of the monsters.

Yeah, there's a mythology nod. But they're definitely following the trend.

hop918 posted...
They in no way made Kong look bad in this movie.

Yeah, bad ass monsters are always getting dental surgery performed with dated tunes playing in the background.

The rules are pretty simple: if it's silly or cute, it goes to Kong. If it's badass: it goes to Godzilla. I get that there needs to be contrast so that it isn't just mammal monster and reptile monster, but they know what they're doing.
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Murphiroth
04/03/24 12:49:52 PM
#14:


Godzilla is inherently cooler and better than Kong so your insane made up theory that they're deliberately making Kong look bad would be the correct choice, if they were actually doing that.

They're not though, you're just...being you about it.
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hop918
04/03/24 1:10:05 PM
#15:


FortuneCookie posted...
The rules are pretty simple: if it's silly or cute, it goes to Kong.

Godzilla chuckling after he smacked Kong in the last movie, sleeping in the coliseum like a cat, fucking swan diving off a cliff in Gibraltar are silly or cute moments in this movie and the last.

If it's badass: it goes to Godzilla

Ending MechaG, beating the living hell out of Godzilla, ripping the wartdog in half as well as being crafty enough to bury them, destroying the eel creature in the lake, knocking Skar King's tooth out clean with one punch. But you know Kong can't have badass moments in these movies.

Yeah, bad ass monsters are always getting dental surgery performed with dated tunes playing in the background

That scene is there to introduce Trapper and how "different" he is, but I guess Serizawa saving Godzilla in KOTM makes him look bad too by your logic.

Yeah, there's a mythology nod. But they're definitely following the trend.

Yes, the trend they started almost 100 years ago.
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#16
Post #16 was unavailable or deleted.
MaxEffingBemis
04/03/24 9:54:57 PM
#17:


Just Saw it and I thought it was fun. Great movie. Movies should be fun

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Akuryu
04/03/24 10:08:10 PM
#18:


Do you think they have Kong-sized dental implants for each of his teeth on hand, to cover any toothache he might suffer?

Good thing Kong got frostbite in his right arm. They didn't make an Ironman glove for his left hand. Luckily it was preloaded with the cure for frostbite too. R&D was on the ball that week.

When they read the ancient prophecy about a girl and her monkey off the cave wall, I couldn't look away. To see that scene being made in 2024 was fascinating. Like seeing someone riding a penny-farthing through your neighborhood.
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FortuneCookie
04/03/24 11:04:28 PM
#19:


Murphiroth posted...
Godzilla is inherently cooler and better than Kong so your insane made up theory that they're deliberately making Kong look bad would be the correct choice, if they were actually doing that.

They're not though, you're just...being you about it.

The original King Kong movie was head and shoulders above any Godzilla film until Minus One came along. Kong had intensity in that film and Skull Island. The rest of the movies make him out like a lost puppy dog. They knew what they were doing when they made him more docile in the Adam Wingard films. He alternates between acting like the Dino De Laurentiis version of Kong from 1976 -- a film which tried too hard to make the ape sympathetic -- and a big hairy version of the Incredible Hulk. He has the same facial expressions and everything.

hop918 posted...
Ending MechaG, beating the living hell out of Godzilla, ripping the wartdog in half as well as being crafty enough to bury them, destroying the eel creature in the lake, knocking Skar King's tooth out clean with one punch. But you know Kong can't have badass moments in these movies.

That only counts if you win.

He defeated the lake monster and Mechagodzilla with an axe -- an axe that he didn't fashion for himself, nor is it canon to any other version of Kong. It's like having Batman vs Daredevil and making Batman's entire strategy based around the use of the Bat-Hammer. And he didn't design the Bat-Hammer. He just found it lying around somewhere.

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FortuneCookie
04/03/24 11:06:37 PM
#20:


For the record, in all three fights, Kong has not had gainful offense against Godzilla except by relying upon a weapon.
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dancing_cactuar
04/03/24 11:11:07 PM
#21:


FortuneCookie posted...
The rules are pretty simple: if it's silly or cute, it goes to Kong. If it's badass: it goes to Godzilla.
Kong literally does several Mortal Kombat tier fatalities across Godzilla vs Kong and this new one.

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Nukazie
04/03/24 11:11:47 PM
#22:


sounds like a good movie

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hop918
04/04/24 8:12:15 AM
#23:


FortuneCookie posted...
That only counts if you win.

He defeated the lake monster and Mechagodzilla with an axe -- an axe that he didn't fashion for himself, nor is it canon to any other version of Kong. It's like having Batman vs Daredevil and making Batman's entire strategy based around the use of the Bat-Hammer. And he didn't design the Bat-Hammer. He just found it lying around somewhere.

So now we've jumped from Kong has no badass feats to he only looks good when he has a weapon that isn't his. You want to pick a spot and stick to it?
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ThunderTrain
04/04/24 8:53:29 AM
#24:


Get rid of the human characters and its a 10/10 movie

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FortuneCookie
04/04/24 11:32:45 AM
#25:


hop918 posted...
So now we've jumped from Kong has no badass feats to he only looks good when he has a weapon that isn't his. You want to pick a spot and stick to it?

Yeah, having a weapon takes away agency from him. It's not him doing it. It's the axe.

It might be excusable if there were a precedent for it, and if he made it himself, but there really isn't. And he didn't make the axe. He just found it lying around in Hollow Earth. Kong has picked up trees or boulders to use as weapons, but he was never in a fight where his entire strategy was reliant upon a weapon. The same goes for Godzilla.

This would be like if you had a film version of Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson, the boxing dream match we never could have seen in real life. In the first bout, Tyson dominates. In the second bout, Ali brings a bicycle chain to the ring as a weapon and fares better (because he's cheating). But he still loses. In the third bout, Ali knocks Tyson down with a pair of brass knuckles before Tyson says screw it, gets back up, and knocks Ali out a third time.

I consider that burial.
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Murphiroth
04/04/24 11:34:44 AM
#26:


FortuneCookie posted...
Yeah, having a weapon takes away agency from him. It's not him doing it. It's the axe.

It might be excusable if there were a precedent for it, and if he made it himself, but there really isn't. And he didn't make the axe. He just found it lying around in Hollow Earth. Kong has picked up trees or boulders to use as weapons, but he was never in a fight where his entire strategy was reliant upon a weapon. The same goes for Godzilla.

This would be like if you had a film version of Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson, the boxing dream match we never could have seen in real life. In the first bout, Tyson dominates. In the second bout, Ali brings a bicycle chain to the ring as a weapon and fares better (because he's cheating). But he still loses. In the third bout, Ali knocks Tyson down with a pair of brass knuckles before Tyson says screw it, gets back up, and knocks Ali out a third time.

I consider that burial.

Except this isn't a boxing match with rules, so that's a fuckin' stupid comparison.

It's almost like they've really leaned into this version of Kong being quite intelligent and using tools or something. It's almost like that!

But you'll carry on with your insane theories, as always.
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dancing_cactuar
04/04/24 11:40:46 AM
#27:


FortuneCookie posted...
Kong has picked up trees or boulders to use as weapons, but he was never in a fight where his entire strategy was reliant upon a weapon.
T. Someone who has never seen Kong Skull Island and doesn't know that most of the final fight has him using makeshift weapons.

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FortuneCookie
04/04/24 11:42:42 AM
#28:


dancing_cactuar posted...
T. Someone who has never seen Kong Skull Island and doesn't know that most of the final fight has him using makeshift weapons.

I don't remember that being his entire strategy. I remember him being a powerful, aggressive individual with a bad ass design based upon the original. Before they gave him the hokey old man beard to soften his design.

In both fighting ability and presentation, the Adam Wingard films have been a downgrade for Kong.
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FortuneCookie
04/04/24 11:43:14 AM
#29:


I'm honestly a bigger fan of Godzilla than I am of Kong.

I don't care so much who wins as I care about both being treated with respect. Kong, I feel, has been dealt a bad hand.
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dancing_cactuar
04/04/24 12:01:23 PM
#30:


FortuneCookie posted...
I don't remember that being his entire strategy.
Well let me give you a refresher.
-Brushed all branches and leaves off tree to make a bat
-Despite this nearly died in a boat wreck without other humans distracting it with gatling gun
-Needed someone to shoot it in the head with a flare gun
-Repurposed boat propeller tied to a chain as a weapon like the fucking blades of chaos
Dude's been using weapons and needed a third party's help since Skull Island, take this depiction up with Jordan Vogt Roberts if you have beef.

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FortuneCookie
04/04/24 12:03:09 PM
#31:


dancing_cactuar posted...
Well let me give you a refresher.
-Brushed all branches and leaves off tree to make a bat
-Despite this nearly died in a boat wreck without other humans distracting it with gatling gun
-Needed someone to shoot it in the head with a flare gun
-Repurposed boat propeller tied to a chain as a weapon like the fucking blades of chaos
Dude's been using weapons and needed a third party's help since Skull Island, take this depiction up with Jordan Vogt Roberts if you have beef.

Maybe that film deserves a second viewing. I do recall that Kong was injured by Samuel L. Jackson's trap. That's the only reason the big skull crawler even came out to challenge him.
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hop918
04/04/24 1:23:56 PM
#32:


FortuneCookie posted...
Yeah, having a weapon takes away agency from him. It's not him doing it. It's the axe.

It might be excusable if there were a precedent for it, and if he made it himself, but there really isn't. And he didn't make the axe. He just found it lying around in Hollow Earth. Kong has picked up trees or boulders to use as weapons, but he was never in a fight where his entire strategy was reliant upon a weapon. The same goes for Godzilla.

He is using the axe, the axe just isn't doing the work itself, next you're going to tell me it's not Captain America beating up people its a shield he didnt make.

Like the other poster said Kong has used weapons in every one of these movies, it's showing he has intelligence and not just a big dumb monster.

Godzilla needed Serizawa and a nuclear bomb, Mothra's radiation, Emma Russell's distraction with the Orca, and the entire city of Boston's electrical grid to beat Ghidorah in KOTM but that doesn't all of a sudden take away from the fact he won.

I appreciate you at least acknowledging you're moving goalposts though.

In both fighting ability and presentation, the Adam Wingard films have been a downgrade for Kong.

First fight with Godzilla he was Sedated and on a ship with limited movement, 2nd fight he got his ass handed to him, godzilla was getting his shit pushed in by MechaG until Kong stepped in, beat the wartdogs, kicked the 3 monkeys asses using Suko as a weapon, beats the eel, forced Skar King to call his giant Lizard, overpowered an evolved Godzilla enough to knock him out (this fight went back and forth but both got moments), and then kicked Skar King's ass in the final fight. But yeah definitely a downgrade over getting injured by machine guns, almost drowning to a giant squid, getting injured by napalm, and needing human help to fight the big skullcrawler.

I remember him being a powerful, aggressive individual with a bad ass design based upon the original. Before they gave him the hokey old man beard to soften his design.

It's been 50 years in universe they're trying to show he's aged
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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 5:11:50 PM
#33:


hop918 posted...
He is using the axe, the axe just isn't doing the work itself, next you're going to tell me it's not Captain America beating up people its a shield he didnt make.

This isn't Captain America bringing a shield to fight Red Skull or the Winter Soldier. This is like Rocky Balboa bring a shield into a boxing ring to help him beat Ivan Drago. It's cheating.

Godzilla needed Serizawa and a nuclear bomb, Mothra's radiation, Emma Russell's distraction with the Orca, and the entire city of Boston's electrical grid to beat Ghidorah in KOTM but that doesn't all of a sudden take away from the fact he won.

That's the point of Ghidorah. That's why he has three heads. He's supposed to be the super-monster that takes teamwork to defeat. Though 1990s and 2000s Godzilla/Mothra films neglected this detail. *grumbles at GMK*

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6342860f.jpg

First fight with Godzilla he was Sedated and on a ship with limited movement, 2nd fight he got his ass handed to him, godzilla was getting his shit pushed in by MechaG until Kong stepped in, beat the wartdogs, kicked the 3 monkeys asses using Suko as a weapon, beats the eel, forced Skar King to call his giant Lizard, overpowered an evolved Godzilla enough to knock him out (this fight went back and forth but both got moments), and then kicked Skar King's ass in the final fight. But yeah definitely a downgrade over getting injured by machine guns, almost drowning to a giant squid, getting injured by napalm, and needing human help to fight the big skullcrawler.

Yeah, he gets outclassed by Godzilla, but he managed to defeat that classic kaiju subterranean hyena monster. Speaking of original monsters, he couldn't even defeat the flying serpent in Godzilla vs Kong without military aid.
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Murphiroth
04/05/24 5:21:02 PM
#34:


FortuneCookie posted...
This isn't Captain America bringing a shield to fight Red Skull or the Winter Soldier. This is like Rocky Balboa bring a shield into a boxing ring to help him beat Ivan Drago. It's cheating.

Nope, this is still a really stupid comparison.

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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 5:36:43 PM
#35:


Murphiroth posted...
Nope, this is still a really stupid comparison.

Why is it a stupid comparison? When have kaiju ever made a strategy of using an external weapon as their sole means of combat? If it's a poor comparison, it's because I chose boxing rather than wrestling. Godzilla films have borrowed from pro wrestling fights since the original King Kong vs Godzilla. Kong's still bringing a chair into the ring and basing his entire strategy around it.

Godzilla, Mothra, Ghidorah, Rodan, and the others are all fighting primarily with their natural weapons. Kong is like, "Hold up, let me get my Power Glove."
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Murphiroth
04/05/24 5:38:57 PM
#36:


FortuneCookie posted...
Why is it a stupid comparison? When have kaiju ever made a strategy of using an external weapon as their sole means of combat? If it's a poor comparison, it's because I chose boxing rather than wrestling. Godzilla films have borrowed from pro wrestling fights since the original King Kong vs Godzilla. Kong's still bringing a chair into the ring and basing his entire strategy around it.

Godzilla, Mothra, Ghidorah, Rodan, and the others are all fighting primarily with their natural weapons. Kong is like, "Hold up, let me get my Power Glove."

There's no "cheating" in a kaiju fight, that's why it's stupid. There's no rules, it's not a boxing match, it's a dumb comparison.

Again, Kong's natural intelligence (one of his natural weapons!) and abilities allowing him to use tools is something they've really leaned into in these movies. Did you pay attention at all?
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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 5:42:51 PM
#37:


Murphiroth posted...
There's no "cheating" in a kaiju fight, that's why it's stupid. There's no rules, it's not a boxing match, it's a dumb comparison.

Again, Kong's natural intelligence (one of his natural weapons!) and abilities allowing him to use tools is something they've really leaned into in these movies. Did you pay attention at all?

Yes. That "natural intelligence" is an excuse to say that Kong is outclassed and needs a booster to be able to fight with better monsters than himself. Everyone else is biting, clawing, punching, kicking, or using internal weapons like ice or flame breath. Kong is using an external weapon that he found somewhere -- probably fashioned by an ape more intelligent than himself. Maybe we'll find out in the next film that Suko's grandmother was the one who fashioned that axe.

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Murphiroth
04/05/24 5:46:41 PM
#38:


FortuneCookie posted...
Yes. That "natural intelligence" is an excuse to say that Kong is outclassed and needs a booster to be able to fight with better monsters than himself. Everyone else is biting, clawing, punching, kicking, or using internal weapons like ice or flame breath. Kong is using an external weapon that he found somewhere -- probably fashioned by an ape more intelligent than himself. Maybe we'll find out in the next film that Suko's grandmother was the one who fashioned that axe.

LMAO you are genuinely hilarious. Natural intelligence in quotes like it's not a thing just to continue to push your insane take.
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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 5:57:10 PM
#39:


Murphiroth posted...
LMAO you are genuinely hilarious. Natural intelligence in quotes like it's not a thing just to continue to push your insane take.

It's like saying that somebody is smart enough to hide under the ring and not fight. Kong is supposed to be a badass monster and they're treating him like a child who found their father's weapon and is now using it to fight off monsters.
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Murphiroth
04/05/24 5:59:56 PM
#40:


Good thing he's still a badass monster and you're just...wrong.
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Vicious_Dios
04/05/24 6:01:41 PM
#41:


Asspull Kong powerups is still trash. Godzilla should always win 10/10 times between them.

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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 6:17:44 PM
#42:


Murphiroth posted...
Good thing he's still a badass monster and you're just...wrong.

Bringing a weapon to a hand to hand fight isn't badass, nor is making E.T. fingers with little kids. Nor is the silly old man beard. I know it's there in part to show the passage of time, but it's also there to keep him from looking as cool as Godzilla. And, to be honest, Godzilla would have looked cooler anyway. A tyrannosaurus with stegosaur spikes is almost inherently cooler than a gorilla with lion teeth. And that's pretty damn cool too. They don't have to compromise Kong's look when Godzilla already looks cooler.

Everything from their mannerisms, to their choice of friends, to their personalities, to their fighting styles is meticulously planned to say that Godzilla is A+ and Kong is B-. He may still make the honor roll but, I'm sorry, that's not a high enough grade for him. Without Kong, there would be no Godzilla.
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hop918
04/05/24 6:22:32 PM
#43:


FortuneCookie posted...
This isn't Captain America bringing a shield to fight Red Skull or the Winter Soldier. This is like Rocky Balboa bring a shield into a boxing ring to help him beat Ivan Drago. It's cheating.

I didn't know there were rules and guidelines to giant monster fights, I'll check with the Federation of Kaiju for the stipulations next time I watch this movie. I guess Godzilla was cheating when he dragged Kong and Ghidorah underwater since that's not part of his natural ability.

That's the point of Ghidorah. That's why he has three heads. He's supposed to be the super-monster that takes teamwork to defeat. Though 1990s and 2000s Godzilla/Mothra films neglected this detail. *grumbles at GMK*

That is the point of Toho Ghidorah, not this one, he would have lost in the water if not for the oxygen destroyer.

Yeah, he gets outclassed by Godzilla, but he managed to defeat that classic kaiju subterranean hyena monster. Speaking of original monsters, he couldn't even defeat the flying serpent in Godzilla vs Kong without military aid.

I like how you continue to downplay Kong's feats because they aren't against classic Kaiju, when he's only actually fought two classic Kaiju and has moments in both but they don't count because reasons.

Are you sure you're just not a Godzilla fan boy who doesn't like that the last two movies have been heavily Kong focused. I don't even care for Kong and I realize how dumb your complaints are.
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Vyrulisse
04/05/24 6:29:42 PM
#44:


Vicious_Dios posted...
Asspull Kong powerups is still trash. Godzilla should always win 10/10 times between them.
False. Kong should actually dominate Godzilla based on physical attributes alone.

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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 6:30:31 PM
#45:


hop918 posted...
I didn't know there were rules and guidelines to giant monster fights, I'll check with the Federation of Kaiju for the stipulations next time I watch this movie. I guess Godzilla was cheating when he dragged Kong and Ghidorah underwater since that's not part of his natural ability.

If Godzilla's strategy in every fight was "drag them to the water and drown them," if he was helpless on land, I would say that was selling Godzilla short.

hop918 posted...
That is the point of Toho Ghidorah, not this one, he would have lost in the water if not for the oxygen destroyer.

Debatable.

hop918 posted...
I like how you continue to downplay Kong's feats because they aren't against classic Kaiju, when he's only actually fought two classic Kaiju and has moments in both but they don't count because reasons.

You're seriously trying to say that the underground hyenas deserve the same recognition as the name kaiju?

Are you sure you're just not a Godzilla fan boy who doesn't like that the last two movies have been heavily Kong focused. I don't even care for Kong and I realize how dumb your complaints are.

That is worth being annoyed at. Why are we following Kong around if he's going to be treated like a chump? If Godzilla's going to win every fight, we should be following him instead.
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hop918
04/05/24 6:38:35 PM
#46:


FortuneCookie posted...
If Godzilla's strategy in every fight was "drag them to the water and drown them," if he was helpless on land, I would say that was selling Godzilla short.

But that's not what you said, you said not using your natural ability is cheating. Water is not Godzilla's natural ability.

Debatable

Absolutely not debatable, the director of KOTM confirmed Godzilla would have won that fight. Ghidorah is only as threatening as he is in the Monsterverse because of the storm and calling other titans, and Godzilla still needed extra help to beat him.

You're seriously trying to say that the underground hyenas deserve the same recognition as the name kaiju?

Is that what I said? You may want to reread that and try again

That is worth being annoyed at. Why are we following Kong around if he's going to be treated like a chump?

As has been pointed out to you multiple times he has not been treated like a chump, but of course that doesn't count because of some weird stipulations you've put on Kong that don't apply to Godzilla.
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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 6:43:03 PM
#47:


hop918 posted...
But that's not what you said, you said not using your natural ability is cheating. Water is not Godzilla's natural ability.

1) He's using his own strength. He's not calling on an ally to bring the water to him so that he can drown an opponent.
2) I've constantly based my argument around Kong using it as his primary strategy. I've acknowledged that monsters have picked up weapons before. Godzilla and Kong both have thrown boulders at enemies and used trees as makeshift weapons. But there hasn't been a time where one of them has been helpless without a weapon until now.

Absolutely not debatable, the director of KOTM confirmed Godzilla would have won that fight. Ghidorah is only as threatening as he is in the Monsterverse because of the storm and calling other titans, and Godzilla still needed extra help to beat him.

That undersells Ghidorah, but whatever.
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hop918
04/05/24 7:05:12 PM
#48:


FortuneCookie posted...
1) He's using his own strength. He's not calling on an ally to bring the water to him so that he can drown an opponent.

Nah according to your original point the water isn't a part of his natural arsenal so he's cheating.

I've constantly based my argument around Kong using it as his primary strategy.

That's not where we started, it's where we got to after you push the goalposts a bit but definitely not where we started.

And as someone has already pointed out to you, Kong has used weapons as his primary strategy in all of these movies. Just because he's solely used the axe instead of picking up random shit doesn't mean it's not a character trait that's been there since the beginning

But there hasn't been a time where one of them has been helpless without a weapon until now.

Remind me how Kong beat Godzilla in the original? Oh yeah, magical electric powers out of nowhere. But an axe takes more away from his character.

That undersells Ghidorah, but whatever.

Eventually you'll understand that these are portrayals of TOHO Kaiju and not piece for piece the same monster.

But I guess until then you'll continue to ignore or disregard anything that downplays Godzilla while making up reasons to remove the things that make Kong look good.
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FortuneCookie
04/05/24 10:50:35 PM
#49:


hop918 posted...
Nah according to your original point the water isn't a part of his natural arsenal so he's cheating.

Godzilla doesn't bring the water to the opponent though. He brings the opponent to the water. It's the difference between smacking someone's head against the wall and picking up a blunt instrument to hit them with.

hop918 posted...
That's not where we started, it's where we got to after you push the goalposts a bit but definitely not where we started.

I acknowledged that Godzilla and Kong both have made makeshift weapons out of trees and rocks. I stated very clearly that they made Kong entirely dependent upon an external weapon and they did.

The very first time I use the word weapon in this post is as follows:

FortuneCookie posted...
For the record, in all three fights, Kong has not had gainful offense against Godzilla except by relying upon a weapon.

Besides, even if you want to argue that Godzilla "cheated" against Kong by dragging him into the water, it doesn't change the fact that Kong had already been subject to the ultimate invalidation in that fight. Kong hit Godzilla with his best shot. Godzilla answered back with a shot that knocked Kong on his ass. And Godzilla was about to kill Kong with a single fiery blast before the military intervened on Kong's behalf.

It doesn't get much clearer than that. Godzilla took his best shot, answered back with a better one, and would have ended the fight right there were it not for someone bailing Kong out.

Eventually you'll understand that these are portrayals of TOHO Kaiju and not piece for piece the same monster.

We're allowed to play by different rules from adaptation to adaptation? It's not just a natural extension of what would logically happen according to the established rules of monster interaction and their respective abilities?

Then that's an open admission that they chose to make Godzilla significantly stronger, more aggressive, just plain cooler, and all around more capable than Kong. They chose to Nerf Kong so that Godzilla could stand taller.
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VeggetaX
04/05/24 10:51:04 PM
#50:


Holy shit

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