Current Events > Are the soldiers of the IDF actually worse human beings than the Russian Army?

(+) Yeah! (+)

They're both horrible and people trying to defend either even in a halfway fashion and/or downplay their atrocities, are also horrible.

willythemailboy posted...

Amazing how the enemy wearing uniforms and not hiding among civilians helps keep the civilian casualties down.

Remember when the IDF dressed up as doctors and killed injured people at a hospital?

Throwback to that time when an IDF soldier emptied his magazine into a 13yo girl, this was the transcript of the conversation between those present:

From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"
Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."
Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."
Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."
Capt R "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2

Another quote from the article:
The army's initial investigation concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically".

It is only unethically if you believe they are human beings.

Trumble posted...

And yet, in over two years they've inflicted comparable harm to what Israel have in only a few months. Both are extremely evil but anyone who thinks Israel is not by far the worse of the two should be assumed to be biased.

Hornezz posted...

I'm really curious how you can reconcile that claim with the following. Are you saying this is misinformed?

Again, there have been literal mass graves uncovered in Ukraine.

You replace the idf with Russian troops in Gaza and we'd be talking about a million dead civilians.

This is actually such a crazy litmus test that I'm surprised people are failing.

Both soldiers are raping and massacring civilians. Trying to say one is worse than the other is like trying to say a Nazi from WW2 is worse than a Nazi today. Both are Nazi trash and horrible.

Shadow_Don posted...

Again, there have been literal mass graves uncovered in Ukraine.

You say this like that isn't happening in Gaza?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/011a64d2.jpg

The civilian death rate in Gaza is much, much higher than in Ukraine. In terms of deaths per day it's the bloodiest conflict in the 21st century by a large margin. And that's not mentioning the suffering caused by using starvation as a weapon of war.

If not death and suffering caused, what metric are you using to say IDF isn't as bad as Russia?

Hornezz posted...

You say this like that isn't happening in Gaza?

You're saying the idf literally captured hundreds of civilians at once, raped and and mutilated them, executed them, and then dumped them in a grave to hide from the world?

Show me where that happened in Gaza and ill argue that the US needs to drone strike Israel immediately.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves

Shadow_Don posted...

You're saying the idf literally captured hundreds of civilians at once, raped and and mutilated them, executed them, and then dumped them in a grave to hide from the world?

Total death rates:

Israels military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day which exceeds the daily death toll of any other major conflict of recent years [...]
Using publicly available data, Oxfam calculated that the number of average deaths per day for Gaza is higher than any recent major armed conflict including Syria (96.5 deaths per day), Sudan (51.6), Iraq (50.8), Ukraine (43.9) Afghanistan (23.8) and Yemen (15.8).

Source:
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam

Civilian / children death rates:
Ukraine: 10,582, including 587 children in 24 months.
Gaza: 8,400 women and 12,300 children in 5 months.

Sources
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/un-records-over-10500-civilian-deaths-in-ukraine-since-february-2022/ar-BB1iNZDH
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker

Rape, abuse and arbitrary executions:

Palestinian women and girls have reportedly been arbitrarily executed in Gaza, often together with family members, including their children, according to information received. We are shocked by reports of the deliberate targeting and extrajudicial killing of Palestinian women and children in places where they sought refuge, or while fleeing. Some of them were reportedly holding white pieces of cloth when they were killed by the Israeli army or affiliated forces, the experts said.

Source:
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against

So I'm guessing that would be a no. What happened in Izium isn't happening in Gaza. You tried though.

Casually brushing off that 100x higher children kill rate huh. Not a great look.

There have been mass graves of Ukrainians found in recovered territory and there are probably more in Russian occupied territory since the front of the war has been essentially frozen for 2 years with no movement.

Russia has been bombing civilian infrastructure for almost the entire war.

The only reason Ukraine doesn't look like Gaza is because Ukraine is a super large country and its not really feasible to bomb everything to ruin.* Gaza is really small.

*Not that Russia isn't trying. The few cities Russia has recently captured are essentially ruins that Russia bombed to hell.

I figured the Ukraine numbers would be a lot higher by now

thronedfire2 posted...

I figured the Ukraine numbers would be a lot higher by now

Its because the war stalled out.

The beginning of the war was much much more intense.

Hornezz posted...

Civilian / children death rates:
Ukraine: 10,582, including 587 children in 24 months.
Gaza: 8,400 women and 12,300 children in 5 months.

The amazing thing is that Israel never kill any adult male civilian.