Current Events > "Kingdom Hearts is too complicated. I cant keep up!"

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rika_Furude posted...

Metal Gear and Yoko Taro games arent hard to understand or unclear

Bullshit

creativerealms posted...

Complicated is the wrong word. Nonsensical is the right word.

Except it isnt even nonsensical when you pay attention. At best the term used should have been for a time inaccessible to get the full picture but now you have two compilations and the third game with DLC bundled together.

Hambo posted...

Even then, we have all this talk about "The Keyblade" throughout the game, just for Mickey to pull out another one at the end. Also dark Riku, but the one he uses has kind of an explanation.

I feel like KH1 was also confusing with the whole Keyhole and Princesses plot. The villains want to open the Keyhole because they can release Heartless (and Maleficent thinks they will obey her). So you close the Keyhole, but it turns out that Ansem went through it, and now he's at the End of the World...which you can also reach just by flying there. Ansem can obviously travel between worlds, so why did he have to go through the Keyhole? And more importantly, why is this Keyhole special? Why do the princesses have the power to unlock some random Keyhole that leads to the End of the World?

The game is also kind of vague on what Kingdom Hearts looks like. The thing is, you actually can see the heart moon faintly behind the Door to Darkness. So this implies the heart moon was always meant to be Kingdom Hearts, and that wasn't a retcon (though that particular moon wasn't the real KH, which was a retcon). But if the moon was supposed to be KH, then why does no one draw attention to it? Ansem talks about KH, but because the moon is so faint, and because it's behind a giant door, lots of people probably assumed that KH was inside the door itself.

...yeah, I love KH1 (it's my favorite game actually), but I don't think it's nearly as simplistic as most people claim.

Letsago posted...

I feel like KH1 was also confusing with the whole Keyhole and Princesses plot. The villains want to open the Keyhole because they can release Heartless (and Maleficent thinks they will obey her). So you close the Keyhole, but it turns out that Ansem went through it, and now he's at the End of the World...which you can also reach just by flying there. Ansem can obviously travel between worlds, so why did he have to go through the Keyhole? And more importantly, why is this Keyhole special? Why do the princesses have the power to unlock some random Keyhole that leads to the End of the World?

The game is also kind of vague on what Kingdom Hearts looks like. The thing is, you actually can see the heart moon faintly behind the Door to Darkness. So this implies the heart moon was always meant to be Kingdom Hearts, and that wasn't a retcon (though that particular moon wasn't the real KH, which was a retcon). But if the moon was supposed to be KH, then why does no one draw attention to it? Ansem talks about KH, but because the moon is so faint, and because it's behind a giant door, lots of people probably assumed that KH was inside the door itself.

...yeah, I love KH1 (it's my favorite game actually), but I don't think it's nearly as simplistic as most people claim.

Its still simplistic in the fact that its an A to B storyline of basically save your friends and beat the bad guy.

Can any KH fans explain why Roxas looks like Ventus and not Sora? Like I get Sora had Ventus's heart, but why does that make the body look different?

MorganTJ posted...

Can any KH fans explain why Roxas looks like Ventus and not Sora? Like I get Sora had Ventus's heart, but why does that make the body look different?

Basically thats why their hearts are basically linked which is also how Vantius more looks like Sora.

It can be convoluted, particularly given how often it goes "Actually, something something new data", but not as bad as some serialized fiction.

Now the time travel. That makes no sense, and for no sensical reason.

Letsago posted...

I feel like KH1 was also confusing with the whole Keyhole and Princesses plot. The villains want to open the Keyhole because they can release Heartless (and Maleficent thinks they will obey her). So you close the Keyhole, but it turns out that Ansem went through it, and now he's at the End of the World...which you can also reach just by flying there. Ansem can obviously travel between worlds, so why did he have to go through the Keyhole? And more importantly, why is this Keyhole special? Why do the princesses have the power to unlock some random Keyhole that leads to the End of the World?

The game is also kind of vague on what Kingdom Hearts looks like. The thing is, you actually can see the heart moon faintly behind the Door to Darkness. So this implies the heart moon was always meant to be Kingdom Hearts, and that wasn't a retcon (though that particular moon wasn't the real KH, which was a retcon). But if the moon was supposed to be KH, then why does no one draw attention to it? Ansem talks about KH, but because the moon is so faint, and because it's behind a giant door, lots of people probably assumed that KH was inside the door itself.

...yeah, I love KH1 (it's my favorite game actually), but I don't think it's nearly as simplistic as most people claim.

Opening the final keyhole with all of the princesses was needed to make the heart of all worlds/end of the world appear. It likely wouldn't have been there otherwise.

Irony posted...

Opening the final keyhole with all of the princesses was needed to make the heart of all worlds/end of the world appear. It likely wouldn't have been there otherwise.

Basically another way to summon Kingdom Hearts.

Yeah there are like 50 ways to summon Kingdom Hearts

Irony posted...

Yeah there are like 50 ways to summon Kingdom Hearts

Basically it always boils down to either fighting or gaining a shit ton of hearts. In any case when you see the motivations of Xehanort it really puts more things into perspective as his other selves were always doing something to summon Kingdom Hearts.

MorganTJ posted...

Can any KH fans explain why Roxas looks like Ventus and not Sora? Like I get Sora had Ventus's heart, but why does that make the body look different?

It's because your appearance is defined by your heart. Even though Roxas was Sora's body, Sora's heart wasn't inside of it -- Ven's was. So it shifted his body to resemble Ven.

Irony posted...

Yeah there are like 50 ways to summon Kingdom Hearts

I was going to ask "why did the princesses have the power to open this Keyhole that led to a fake KH while also having the ability to open the way to the real one," but that would delve into the later games...I was trying to look solely at the first one, lol.

Letsago posted...

I was going to ask "why did the princesses have the power to open this Keyhole that led to a fake KH while also having the ability to open the way to the real one," but that would delve into the later games...I was trying to look solely at the first one, lol.

Probably a retcon for later at that point. Specially considering all the back up plans for back up plans Xehanort had. He was likely always going to accomplish his goals in one way or another.

ellis123 posted...

Basically none of it is hard to understand. You just have to play everything that came before it.

This and actually pay attention. The story isn't hard to grasp.

For what it's worth, I think there's only one way to summon the *real* Kingdom Hearts. The ones we see in KH1 and KH2 (and I think BbS?) are all fake Kingdom Heartses.

Punished_Blinx posted...

You don't need to play any of those to understand Alan Wake 2. Each of those games are their own individual stories with Easter eggs that reference the rest.

Control is the only one I would say you have to play.

Another thing that I don't remember being explained is why when Sora lost his heart he only became a mere shadow while at the same time he had a humanoid Nobody.

What exactly determines what kind of Heartless or Nobody you have?

Blue_Inigo posted...

Bullshit

Metal Gear really isnt hard to understand.

Rharyx211 posted...

For what it's worth, I think there's only one way to summon the *real* Kingdom Hearts. The ones we see in KH1 and KH2 (and I think BbS?) are all fake Kingdom Heartses.

Basically or at the very least different variations of what Kingdom Hearts is and. It the true version.

The problem with Kingdom Hearts isnt that its complicated. The problem with Kingdom Hearts is that its stupid.

Rharyx211 posted...

For what it's worth, I think there's only one way to summon the *real* Kingdom Hearts. The ones we see in KH1 and KH2 (and I think BbS?) are all fake Kingdom Heartses.

I actually thought the one in BBS was the real one but Xehanort just wouldn't have been able to open it...another thing I've always been confused about is Vanitas's fake(?) X-Blade. Xehanort in DDD talks like his plan in BBS was doomed to fail, but he never actually calls it a fake X-Blade. If it wasn't fake, then it would have been able to open the real one if Ven/Aqua/Mickey never broke it...so it must have been fake, right?

Irony posted...

Not understanding Remedy games might be an intelligence issue

Oh that's ironic

Rharyx211 posted...

For what it's worth, I think there's only one way to summon the *real* Kingdom Hearts. The ones we see in KH1 and KH2 (and I think BbS?) are all fake Kingdom Heartses.

The one in BBS that kinda just shows up when you make the X-blade is said to be a super duper real Kingdom Hearts in the game's reports.

Keyblades are said to be man-made counterparts to Kingdom Hearts. The -blade, however, coexists with Kingdom Hearts.
It is only forged when two hearts of equal power intersectone heart of pure darkness, one heart of pure light. At the time of its forging, Kingdom Hearts appears. It must be noted, though, that this Kingdom Hearts is special. Unlike the Kingdoms brought about forcibly and artificially through the collection of hearts, THIS Kingdom Hearts is a perfect and complete union of ALL the worlds' hearts. Surely it was over this that the ancient Keyblade War was fought.

Irony posted...

Another thing that I don't remember being explained is why when Sora lost his heart he only became a mere shadow while at the same time he had a humanoid Nobody.

What exactly determines what kind of Heartless or Nobody you have?

Pretty sure its the darkness in ones heart that determines that hence why when Xehanort spilt in Terras body he produced Xemnas as his Nobody but also had Ansem as his Heartless. Given how powerful Xehanort was in the use of Darkness his Heartless retains his original form. (Or Human Hybrid given he was also sharing a body, Ansem could very well be what Xehanort looked like in adulthood)

It also noticed with certain Dinsey Characters also fell to darkness and produced strong boss Heartless.

Irony posted...

Another thing that I don't remember being explained is why when Sora lost his heart he only became a mere shadow while at the same time he had a humanoid Nobody.

What exactly determines what kind of Heartless or Nobody you have?

(Ninja'd for the Heartless part) Your Heartless is determined by how much darkness you have in your heart. That's why Sora became a weak Heartless.
For the Nobodies...I assume that the ones who had the strongest hearts get to become humanoid Nobodies, but I don't actually think it was explicitly confirmed.

Letsago posted...

Your Heartless is determined by how much darkness you have in your heart. That's why Sora became a weak Heartless.
For the Nobodies...I assume that the ones who had the strongest hearts get to become humanoid Nobodies, but I don't actually think it was explicitly confirmed.

Thats pretty much been confirmed given who all we have seen become Nobodies have basically had strong hearts. The bigger question would be at what point where their Heartless defeated since thats a byproduct of becoming a Nobody.

Baha05 posted...

Thats pretty much been confirmed given who all we have seen become Nobodies have basically had strong hearts. The bigger question would be at what point where their Heartless defeated since thats a byproduct of becoming a Nobody.

I've seen theories about certain Heartless bosses being the Org. Nobodies. Grim Reaper being Marluxia, for example. Of course, since Heartless is determined by darkness in your heart, some of the less evil Org. members like Lexaeus might not have powerful Heartless.

Irony posted...

Another thing that I don't remember being explained is why when Sora lost his heart he only became a mere shadow while at the same time he had a humanoid Nobody.

What exactly determines what kind of Heartless or Nobody you have?

As far as Heartless are concerned, it's based on the strength of your darkness. Sora has a minuscule amount of darkness, so he wound up being a basic Shadow. But you need to have a strong heart in general to create a Nobody, and Sora's heart is super strong.

Kuuko posted...

The one in BBS that kinda just shows up when you make the X-blade is said to be a super duper real Kingdom Hearts in the game's reports.

Yeah, I remember reading that, but I also remember Yen Sid or someone saying that the true Kingdom Hearts was only last seen during the Keyblade War or something, which confused me.

Letsago posted...

I actually thought the one in BBS was the real one but Xehanort just wouldn't have been able to open it...another thing I've always been confused about is Vanitas's fake(?) X-Blade. Xehanort in DDD talks like his plan in BBS was doomed to fail, but he never actually calls it a fake X-Blade. If it wasn't fake, then it would have been able to open the real one if Ven/Aqua/Mickey never broke it...so it must have been fake, right?

Yeah, that was a pretty blatant rewrite. In BbS, all you needed was a clash between light and darkness, but then DDD was like "no, actually you need a clash between 7 lights and 13 darknesses."

Then KH3 just kinda...had Sora fight all the bad guys one by one, and somehow that still basically worked? (Also, most of the bad guys didn't even have Keyblades, so I'm guessing that's not a requirement for a "Keyblade" War?)

Hambo posted...

It's not conclusive, but KH1 sure made it sound like it was a unique thing. "The Keyblade chooses its master. And it chose you!" It definitely felt like a Master Sword situation. Idk if the Japanese version sounded less decisive, but the way Leon & co talked about it in English sounded like it was the one and only Keyblade.

It didn't choose him though. He accidentally stole it from Riku when he choose darkness. Riku was always meant to wield it. That's why it went back to him at Hollow Bastion. Sora only got it back because his heart was stronger then Rikus.

According to the character bios in the first game Sora was second place because Riku chose darkness

Yeah, the Kingdom Key was supposed to be Riku's, but Riku started to be a lil bitch and so the Key chose Sora instead.

Riku managed to win it back for a small time later on after leveling up, but it still ultimately chose Sora because his heart was stronger.

Rharyx211 posted...

Also, most of the bad guys didn't even have Keyblades, so I'm guessing that's not a requirement for a "Keyblade" War?

The interesting thing is, even though a lot of them didn't fight with Keyblades, most of them had the potential for it.

The Norts, Vanitas, and Xion are obviously Keyblade wielders or at least have the potential (Ansem wielded one while possessing Riku and Nomura has said Xemnas can use one).
Marluxia and Larxene were Keyblade wielders in the past.
Luxord...we still don't know his deal but Xemnas said he had the same deal as Marluxia and Larxene (and Demyx).
Xigbar is Luxu
That leaves two who don't have the potential (as far as we know): Dark Riku and Saix.

With Saix, I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with something like "Xehanort touched Isa one time while he was in Ansem's castle and he got bequeathed" in a later game as an excuse for him to get a Keyblade. But Dark Riku? The only excuse I could think of is "he's a Riku replica, so he can wield one because Riku can."

The story is pretty simple and entertaining up until KH2 despite the spin offs that were harmless fun at best. unnecessary to follow the main games.

Then it just kind of jumped sharks with the rest. Introducing a crap ton of crappy new characters, lore, gimmicks and so on.

All culminating in KH3. A game the devs couldnt somehow finish despite all the development time they had.

Xemnas was lazy. He could wield a keyblade but made Roxas and then Sora go kill Heartless for his plan.

Letsago posted...

The interesting thing is, even though a lot of them didn't fight with Keyblades, most of them had the potential for it.

The Norts, Vanitas, and Xion are obviously Keyblade wielders or at least have the potential (Ansem wielded one while possessing Riku and Nomura has said Xemnas can use one).
Marluxia and Larxene were Keyblade wielders in the past.
Luxord...we still don't know his deal but Xemnas said he had the same deal as Marluxia and Larxene (and Demyx).
Xigbar is Luxu
That leaves two who don't have the potential (as far as we know): Dark Riku and Saix.

With Saix, I wouldn't be surprised if they came up with something like "Xehanort touched Isa one time while he was in Ansem's castle and he got bequeathed" in a later game as an excuse for him to get a Keyblade. But Dark Riku? The only excuse I could think of is "he's a Riku replica, so he can wield one because Riku can."

Y'know, I agree with everything you said...

But I feel like I just overlooked the fact they're all part-Xehanort by the time of KH3, so they're all technically part-Keyblade wielder lol

Prismsblade posted...

The story is pretty simple and entertaining up until KH2 despite the spin offs that were harmless fun at best. unnecessary to follow the main games.

Then it just kind of jumped sharks with the rest. Introducing a crap ton of crappy new characters, lore, gimmicks and so on.

All culminating in KH3. A game the devs couldnt somehow finish despite all the development time they had.

they're all main games except coded (but it still had a canon ending). Also KH3 happens right after KHDDD

so no you cant just follow the "main" games.

Rharyx211 posted...

Y'know, I agree with everything you said...

But I feel like I just overlooked the fact they're all part-Xehanort by the time of KH3, so they're all technically part-Keyblade wielder lol

That is a good point...I spent all this time overthinking it when that's probably the simplest answer lol

Prismsblade posted...

The story is pretty simple and entertaining up until KH2 despite the spin offs that were harmless fun at best. unnecessary to follow the main games.

Then it just kind of jumped sharks with the rest. Introducing a crap ton of crappy new characters, lore, gimmicks and so on.

All culminating in KH3. A game the devs couldnt somehow finish despite all the development time they had.

Besides coded and Melody of Memories (and that has an ending that matters to the story) they are all main games. Saying that you don't need to play them to understand is wrong. They are all important.

0Renegade posted...

they're all main games except coded (but it still had a canon ending). Also KH3 happens right after KHDDD

so no you cant just follow the "main" games.

They're all canon games, but I feel like calling them all "main" games is off the mark.

Like, KH1, KH2, and KH3 are are obviously the main titles. But stuff like BbS and DDD being side-games doesn't diminish their importance -- in fact, I'd argue they're more important than even the main trilogy at times.

Nirvanas_Nox posted...

Besides coded and Melody of Memories (and that has an ending that matters to the story) they are all main games. Saying that you don't need to play them to understand is wrong. They are all important.

They certainly were. As much so as all the Star Wars ones in between its main movies and trilogy. Theyre important and add to the story but are still spin offs none-the-less.

For KH while the first few ones werent necessary to understand and enjoy its story that changed post KH2. It didnt help that they released the games across multiple platforms and generations.
As most fans likely dont own both a vita to play BBS or a DS for KH 369(?) days.

And even if they did KH3 story was terrible regardless. So there wasnt even any pay off for it.

People clown on Metal Gear but the actual plot isn't anything complicated. It's mostly just kind of campy. Also helps that you can get by with only playing the numbered titles, of which there are only 4.

Blue_Inigo posted...

You play Metal Gear, Yoko Taro games, and Remedy games. That's BULLSHIT

I haven't played MG or Remedy games. I played Nier Automata but I didn't understand shit.

BloodMoon7 posted...

I haven't played MG or Remedy games. I played Nier Automata but I didn't understand shit.

...What part of it you didn't understand? It's fairly straight forward, plot wise anyways.

Kingdom Hearts is very easy to follow
It's when you try to explain it is when it makes no sense

Prestoff posted...

...What part of it you didn't understand? It's fairly straight forward, plot wise anyways.

All of it. I'm dumb af

Prismsblade posted...

They certainly were. As much so as all the Star Wars ones in between its main movies and trilogy. Theyre important and add to the story but are still spin offs none-the-less.

For KH while the first few ones werent necessary to understand and enjoy its story that changed post KH2. It didnt help that they released the games across multiple platforms and generations.
As most fans likely dont own both a vita to play BBS or a DS for KH 369(?) days.

And even if they did KH3 story was terrible regardless. So there wasnt even any pay off for it.

Maybe for you but that doesn't mean. It didn't for others. You can't use the it's on multiple consoles excuse since they are on everything now. Those games are important and are main games. Especially DDD since it leads right into KH3. They are all necessary to understand everything. You skip one game (besides coded) your gonna miss something.

Turbam posted...

Kingdom Hearts is very easy to follow
It's when you try to explain it is when it makes no sense

And part of that applies to just about anything with long established history. Hell Human History alone would probably be a nightmare to explain to aliens.

BloodMoon7 posted...

All of it. I'm dumb af

Humans made robots to fight.
Aliens made robots to fight.
Aliens and humans all died but the robots never got the memo.
Conflict and existential crises ensue