Current Events > Pro Russia / Pro Israel = Republican. Pro Ukraine / Pro Palestine = Democrat.

(+) Yeah! (+)

ru/il = republican
ua/ps = democrat
ru/ps = thirdworldist
ua/il = neocon

ROBANN_88 posted...

all expansion by NATO was from countries asking to be included in order to protect themselves from Russian aggression
claiming that as an acceptable reason for "It's NATOs fault too" is like claiming that an abusive ex husband has a right to stalk their ex partner cause the judge insulted him when they put up a restraining order, like "look what you made me do"

Never claimed it was NATOs fault, just that it is being empowered as a result of the war. This war is incredibly beneficial for the American empire as it adds more nations to the list of "dependant on (primarily) US military strength."

The more nations dependant on the US military, the more the American Imperial influence grows.

ROBANN_88 posted...

what
the fuck did i miss here?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/us-evangelical-christians-israel-hamas-war

Broadly speaking, some evangelicals believe that Jewish people returning to Israel following the 1917 Balfour Declaration, a British statement which called for the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, was key to end times, when God will purge sinners and Jesus Christ will return.
John Hagee, an evangelical pastor and influential founder of Christians United for Israel, explained the prophecy to TBN Networks in December 2022.
God is getting ready to defend Israel in such a supernatural way its going to take the breath out of the lungs of the dictators on planet Earth but we are living on the cusp of the greatest most supernatural series of events the world has ever seen ready or not.
Hagee said when Jewish people are present in Israel the clock starts ticking on the rapture.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Never claimed it was NATOs fault, just that it is being empowered as a result of the war. This war is incredibly beneficial for the American empire as it adds more nations to the list of "dependant on (primarily) US military strength."

The more nations dependant on the US military, the more the American Imperial influence grows.

oh, i apologize
i must have misread your post and thought you were saying 'the conflict is a direct result of NATOs expansion' rather than the other way around.
cause we've heard that from Kremlin Gremlins many times before
i stand by my post, but i's obviously not relevant to yours then

well, if Russia ends up backed into a corner, and the anti-Russia Alliance grows, that's kind of their own fault then.

variasuite posted...

So you think NATO would invade and take over Russia unprovoked...? And if you're gonna use the "It's a loaded gun pointed at Russia" excuse, don't bother

Maybe? NATO is explicitly opposed to Russia and plenty of members aren't shy of imperialism. Regardless of whether its warranted and whether Russia has brought it upon itself, its pretty clear why Russia would see NATO on its borders and NATO expansion as a threat.

McMarbles posted...

Then maybe they shouldnt have forced their influence on Eastern Europe for half a century.

Completely irrelevant to my point.

FortuneCookie posted...

A lot of people go against their expressed principles. Look at Republicans and Christian values. "Love one another," often gets translated as, "Hate everyone. God will forgive you for it."

The bible actively suggests hate. Pick a better example.

AnsestralRecall posted...

It's honestly not. Russia is obviously the aggressor and to be condemned fully and Ukraine defending their nation is their duty and right, but there is a lot to be said regarding the expansion of Western imperial powers through the growth of NATO as a direct result of the conflict.

That might be secondary to the conflict itself, but it's near impossible to separate it at this point.

Be careful. You can get modded/instantly suspended for daring to suggest that global politics is more complicated than a children's cartoon.

Topics like these show the negative effects of social media. Conflicts are rarely a simple matter of "good vs. bad". That's why I think, that labels like "pro" or "anti" aren't a good way to communicate, except when it's about simple questions.

For example, should civilian casualties on either side be avoided at all costs? That's a clear "yes". A clear "pro" stance is legit.
Another example is Russia's invasion of Ukraine. There's nothing to debate here, it's just completely unjustified and unlawful by international standards.

In case of the current conflict in Israel, there's more it than just being "pro" or "anti". I mean, I think we can all agree that what Netanyahu's cabinet is doing, is cruel. It should be condemned. However, it is important to differentiate between Netanyahu/cabinet and Israel as a whole. Same as it is important to differentiate between Palestinians and Hamas. Furthermore, it is also important to take Israel's situation and the historic oppression of jews into account.

We can and we should condemn any attacks on civilians, whether it's an attack from Hamas on civilians of Israel (and other nations) or from Israel (Netanyahu) on civilians of Palestine.

I also think we can and should support a two state solution, meaning Palestine as an independent country.

However, we can and should also take Israel's fear of being eradicated on the arabian peninsula into account and understand, that they need safety guarantees.

And we can and should agree, that any oppression against jews need to stop worldwide.

That's why I think, such labels like "pro" or "anti" are often bad. They just lead to more division. Conflicts can only be solved by attempting to understand each other. By talking with each other and making compromises. It's legit to take a clear stance about certain questions (like the importance of avoiding civilian casualties at all costs and condemning those who execute it), but generalizations and adding fuel to the fire should be avoided, as it achieves nothing.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

The bible actively suggests hate. Pick a better example.

Do you have any examples of this?

Why does so many feel an insisting need to turn every issue into a left wing vs right wing thing.....

Being pro Palestinians having rights =/= hate Israel. The people feeling the insisting urge to make it a left wing vs right wing issue are only making things worse given how hyperpartisan this country is right now with people blindly being for or against things based on what party is supporting it.

asdf8562 posted...

Why does so many feel an insisting need to turn every issue into a left wing vs right wing thing.....

Being pro Palestinians having rights =/= hate Israel.

Every conflict in history is that of the ruling class harming the working class. It is inherently left vs right.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Every conflict in history is that of the ruling class harming the working class. It is inherently left vs right.

I'm not even bothering to touch what your talking as that isn't what I addressed.

Being pro Israel or Pro Palestine is not, and should not be a left vs right wing discussion. It's not helping Palestinians or Israel civilians. Especially given how even more hyper partisan this country is right now.

To many are way to allergic to having a nuanced discussion because they are so hyperpartisan. Hamas =/= Palestinian civilians. Israeli government =/= Israeli civilians. We could go on and on here yet, basic nuanced discussion has to be spoon fed or you always get a group of people falsely conflating two completely different statements as one.

I would love if the Democratic Party was meaningfully pro-Palestine.

Not gonna check out the rest of this topic, which I'm sure hasn't been awful.

Most democrats are taking a pro-Israel position. Even ones who you would think wouldn't be like John Fetterman.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Russia goes completely against all leftist principles but sure i guess

Some tankies support and defend Russia for some reason.