Current Events > Target closing stores in high theft areas

(+) Yeah! (+)

As someone who's actually from NYC, I can say that poster is full of shit and "tough on crime" measures did not make things better.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

As someone who's actually from NYC, I can say that poster is full of shit and "tough on crime" measures did not make things better.

You said the other day you're from Texas...

What part of NYC are you in? How long have you lived here?

We lived under 20 years of tough on crime and we had historic lows.

archedsoul posted...

You said the other day you're from Texas...

What part of NYC are you in? How long have you lived here?

We lived under 20 years of tough on crime and we had historic lows.

I live in Texas now.

I was born and raised in New York and New Jersey up until I graduated High School and went to university in Florida. I'm originally from Harlem

archedsoul posted...

Lol, what? Dude, just name the city or state. Because it sounds like it's some southern shithole because there aren't any east coast cities doing worst than NYC anywhere near the north.

Fine, it's DC. Not exactly a southern shithole imo, but as a New Yorker, you may have a different view.

I didn't discount the historic lows thing. I said it's pointless to bring up because it doesn't change anything. I gave raw numbers, not just percentages. These numbers are not good. Not sure what proceeding with reality has to do it. Again, saying it's not as bad as the 80s/90s is dumb as shit. Those were historic highs. It's like constantly saying "that 7.0 earthquake was nothing compared to the 8.0 one 20 years ago". Yeah, 7.0 is still bad.

It matters because people are reacting like these are records rates and their responses are all draconian, involve more surveillance, more police funding, and less civil rights/civil liberties. People have already experienced these rates and didn't react this way before, so things are not being drive by the rates, they're being driven by media and politician created fears. No one is disputing that crime is a bad thing. What we're disputing is the right response based on an accurate reading of what crime is.

Not sure why you brought up Bragg since he's Manhattan's DA. At least Bronx's DA is trying her best. The hardest hit Targets in the Bronx now have cops inside and people get arrested immediately. The facts are that two major things did coincide with the pandemic that people ignore. The bail reform and the disbanding of the anti crime unit. Both in 2020.

I brought up Bragg because he and what he represents have been brought up multiple times in this topic. You seem to be bringing it up in this very post and praising someone taking a contrasting approach. My understanding is that there's no evidence that bail reform is connected to increased crime. Same with the crime unit, where those same cops were still patrolling those same areas. Again, crime increased everywhere, and it happened especially hard in places that were already blighted, regardless of policy. The thing is, people have a very hard time with cause and effect, and their views tend to track their preexisting worldview/political bias. That's why people credit negative changes (but never positive ones) to whatever political change caused them anxiety. They'll blame Biden, Trump, Adams, Bragg, whoever, when the real cause was likely not intentional or localized. And that's why a prosecutor like Bragg or a more lax policy will always be blamed for the negative, but never praised if things stay the same or improve, but people have more rights. I guarantee you that'll happen even if crime rates fall over the next few years.

And I don't get the disinvestment thing. Crime is much higher in Manhattan than Staten Island, Brooklyn and Queens. Manhattan is one of the centers of the world.

I get your point that there's many factors at play here, but my thing is not that tough on crime necessarily works, rather soft on crime doesn't work either. The thieves aren't even really poor people.

The ones doing the big heists pull up in expensive ass cars, and this is not even a minority thing. Tons of white people are doing this shit too because there's no consequences. It has essentially gone viral. It's pointless to just ignore it like Manhattan does. When all the companies leave, everybody will be worst off, so the city and Bragg need to be tougher than ignoring it. Or acting like it's some type of conspiracy all these stores are closing down.

The viral things go viral because they're sensational and unusual, they're not making up the bulk of crime. If they're stealing large amounts, breaking and entering, burglarizing etc, that's still just as illegal as its always been. The media shows these crimes and presents a narrative that they're not being pursued, even as they're under investigation and crime is falling.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

I live in Texas now.

I was born and raised in New York and New Jersey up until I graduated High School and went to university in Florida. I'm originally from Harlem

So when was the last time you actually lived in NYC proper and not NJ? Sounds like the 90s?

So you left before it even got better? I've lived here straight since the 80s in every borough except Staten Island. Despite all the issues, I still absolutely love NYC. It can however do much better.

legendary_zell posted...

Fine, it's DC. Not exactly a southern shithole imo, but as a New Yorker, you may have a different view.

The Bronx is worse than DC.

legendary_zell posted...

It matters because people are reacting like these are records rates and their responses are all draconian, involve more surveillance, more police funding, and less civil rights/civil liberties. People have already experienced these rates and didn't react this way before, so things are not being drive by the rates, they're being driven by media and politician created fears. No one is disputing that crime is a bad thing. What we're disputing is the right response based on an accurate reading of what crime is.

No, people are acting like this is a 7.0 earthquake and you're sitting here going "yeah, but 20 years ago, an 8.0 earthquake happened, so please have an appropriate reaction".

People in NYC are not going "this is the worst shit ever". They're just mad it's gotten as bad as before and there isn't really any positive sign it's getting better. Especially with the city facing tons of other issues and budget cuts. There's been tons of random violence on immigrants, the elderly and women. And it's almost always repeat offenders. The crime in the 80s and 90s was different. It was more gang violence and more limited to the people participating.

These are not media fears. I live here and see it and hear it with my own eyes and ears. Like dude, charging someone for stealing is not draconian. Keeping people that continue to do fucked up shit locked up is not draconian. This notion that things will improve if everybody is lifted up ignores that there is all types of crime on every level of society from the top to the bottom.

legendary_zell posted...

I brought up Bragg because he and what he represents have been brought up multiple times in this topic. You seem to be bringing it up in this very post and praising someone taking a contrasting approach. My understanding is that there's no evidence that bail reform is connected to increased crime. Same with the crime unit, where those same cops were still patrolling those same areas. Again, crime increased everywhere, and it happened especially hard in places that were already blighted, regardless of policy. The thing is, people have a very hard time with cause and effect, and their views tend to track their preexisting worldview/political bias. That's why people credit negative changes (but never positive ones) to whatever political change caused them anxiety. They'll blame Biden, Trump, Adams, Bragg, whoever, when the real cause was likely not intentional or localized. And that's why a prosecutor like Bragg or a more lax policy will always be blamed for the negative, but never praised if things stay the same or improve, but people have more rights. I guarantee you that'll happen even if crime rates fall over the next few years.

Because DA Clark realizes that something needs to be done because it directly affect her communities. She started off pretty lax herself. She's a black woman and Bragg is a black man and one is taking a better approach.

I don't get this weird shit some people do where you act like the communities themselves aren't hurt by the criminals living there and preying on them. Tons of bodegas and 7-11s have had to close down because people not only rob them, but sometimes destroy shit as well.

When there's several things going on, they can all contribute to have a larger effect. Rearrests went from 50% to like 75% after the reform. And it's not even bail reform that's the issue. Some of it is just letting people go because they feel bad or something. Things that are supposed to end with mandatory lock up are not being enforced.

There was just a report in Manhattan a few days ago about a couple living in a family shelter, and the husband started punching and then tried to strangle his wife. He was arrested and let right out even though you're not supposed to be let out. Strangling is the highest indicator that he could kill you.

And that was just one of three incidents there last weekend. Two other guys beat up their wives, were arrested and then let out as well. How are these women supposed to feel safe? So yes, Bragg and his team are all too lax on crime. There's an example almost daily. You don't have to turn into fucking Judge Dredd to handle crime properly.

legendary_zell posted...

The viral things go viral because they're sensational and unusual, they're not making up the bulk of crime. If they're stealing large amounts, breaking and entering, burglarizing etc, that's still just as illegal as its always been. The media shows these crimes and presents a narrative that they're not being pursued, even as they're under investigation and crime is falling.

This just sounds like wacky BS. Bro, people talk. I'm from the hood. I know where the best spots to rob are in the city and without any consequences because we talk about it with each other and people let everyone know the lick. Nowadays, people are on TikTok basically advertising it. Like, Target does absolutely nothing to stop you. When the cops were added to the Bronx ones, it was put on the "no good" list.

Regardless, I don't think me and you are gonna agree on how to handle crime. A lot of your approach is experimental and has barely proven successful. I get the spirit of it, but there's just too much hopium there and neglects that some people are just fucked up, even with wealth and privilege.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

As someone who's actually from NYC, I can say that poster is full of shit and "tough on crime" measures did not make things better.

Same with St Louis. There's no proof that tough on crime did shit for us either. Though I'm not sure if that one gets to count since it's a Midwest shit hole

Gwynevere posted...

Same with St Louis. There's no proof that tough on crime did shit for us either. Though I'm not sure if that one gets to count since it's a Midwest shit hole

Lol I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed he kept calling everywhere not New York a shithole while simultaneously going on about how shitty it is in New York

archedsoul posted...

There's been tons of random violence on immigrants, the elderly and women.

Actually, same for my city too.

Criminals were targeting Asian hubs because "they usually always have money and don't fight back", is how I think the news story paraphrased it.

It's v. disingenuous to act like crime doesn't matter and that advocating for enforcement officials to do something is akin to bringing back racist policies.

chaos_knight posted...

Exactly. Removing them from society via three strike laws and such would go a long way. Fuck them.

Lol.

archedsoul posted...

This is complete BS. Crime, especially violent crime has not been this bad since the early 2000s.

It's 2023. That's almost 20 years. Do you even live here or are you just quarterbacking from some Midwest shithole?

So you think that Americans are taken care of?