Board 8 > I'm playing Final Fantasy VII for the first time *Spoilers as I go*

(+) Yeah! (+)

mnk posted...

Well for starters you didn't buy any of her flowers. D:

Truly unforgivable. Restart game imo.

Could've been worse, could've called her the slum drunk...

...which somehow DOES NOT affect your chances to date her, lol

MartinFF7 posted...

Could've been worse, could've called her the slum drunk...

...which somehow DOES NOT affect your chances to date her, lol

Haha yeah. That should have been a -20 right off the bat.

MartinFF7 posted...

you can check out the mechanics here: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Date_mechanics#Decisions

I glanced through calculating as best I could remember from my choices, and I think Aeris would've been 54, Tifa 63. That -12 from the barrel minigame (I'm pretty sure there were four) was definitely what sunk me. Still, it was pretty close! Yuffie had 32, Barret only 13

Yep, there are four barrels.

Well, uh, some stuff happened during my session today. Before we get into that, though, I watched a video showing the other dates as well as the one Martin linked showing everyone's reaction to Aeris' death. The Barret "date" was funny, even if I was a little disappointed that they skipped the stage play. Barret would've been a good princess. He wondered why Cloud was hanging out with him instead of one of the sexy ladies, which led him to conclude that Cloud was after Marlene instead! Don't worry dude, I'm not into little girls! Who do you think I am, Edgar from FFVI? The Yuffie date was funny too. She kissed Cloud on the cheek, then slapped him when he didn't have much of a reaction. As for the Aeris date, it was easily my favorite, partly because she was the only one forward enough to call it a date. I liked their little chat on the ride. What she said didn't make total sense (...at least not until I played a bit more), but it was sweet that she wanted to get to know the real Cloud. They promised to go on more rides next time. Excuse me while I wipe away a tear.

After that date video, watching the death reactions video hit hard and made me sad for Aeris all over again. Yuffie's reaction was my favorite from the way she completely broke down and hugged Cloud. It had a lot of emotion. You know what, Yuffie is forgiven. I don't care if she's a Materia thief, she's a good character. I kicked Barret out of my party, brought in Yuffie, and then proceeded into the snow zone. She was only level 35 or so, but Cloud and Tifa were more than strong enough to carry the ninja until she got some levels and upgraded her limit break.

I explored the next town, acquiring both a map and a snowboard. The big thing here was that I found the house where Aeris' parents used to live. Her dad was a scientist who recorded his chats with Aeris' mother, and eventually they fell in love. It looked like a sweet relationship, at least until Hojo barged in and ruined everything. There was also a brief run-in with Elena, but Cloud effortlessly sidestepped her attempted punch and she rolled down a hill like the comic relief villain that she is. Then I did the snowboard minigame and failed miserably. I refused to use the incredibly awkward Page Up or Page Down buttons on my keyboard to bank left/right, so it took me five minutes. That might sound bad, but it's only four minutes longer than the world record speedrun!

No matter how poorly I did, it all led to the same place. Lost in a mazelike snowy wasteland. The map was only marginally useful in exploring this area. Still, with my overleveled Cloud and Tifa, I turned this area into a training ground for Yuffie. Even once I found the cabin leading to the next area, I actually went back into the wasteland until I was convinced I'd found everything. I killed a sexy snow lady for the Alexander summon. I've never actually used a summon in the entire game so far, but I've had them equipped to slowly level up just in case I ever need to. Once I was done down there, it was time to climb the big mountain. Nobody bothered buying winter clothes or anything, so Cloud just did a little dance whenever he needed to warm up. I had a bit of a panic attack when I ran into a Malboro in one of the caves because those guys have wrecked my shit in other Final Fantasy games. This time, though, my level was high enough that I destroyed it without much trouble. Not even the hydra boss could withstand my power.

If I didn't know better, I would've thought I was heading towards the final boss. There was a genuinely tense atmosphere in the next area with the failed experiments making their way towards Sephiroth's reunion. I eventually killed another Jenova boss and successfully reclaimed the Black Materia. I was proud of Cloud for learning from past mistakes and giving it to someone else for safekeeping. I chose Red XIII, because I can trust the wise old beast not to give it to anyone else under any circumstances... right? With that failsafe assured, the party continued on to face Sephiroth.

However, instead of a boss fight, I stumbled into a mindfuck. Sephiroth transported everyone into an illusion of the Nibelheim disaster. It all played out exactly like in Cloud's story... only, Cloud wasn't the one doing any of it. Some guy with spiky black hair (presumably Zack, I've seen pictures of him at least) was the one in the main role instead. Cloud tried to believe this was all an illusion, just some trick from Sephiroth to throw him off. Tifa was freaking out, however, and eventually the truth could no longer be denied. Cloud is nothing more than another one of Hojo's science experiments.

This blew my mind, so forgive me if I make any mistakes in this next bit of my summary. Because, I mean... what the actual fuck. Cloud never existed?!? As far as I understand it, he was an artificial human created from that other guy's memories, some cells from Jenova/Sephiroth, and even his past with Tifa was all a lie. That flashback to when she found him on the street was chilling. It was like she didn't recognize him at first, but then some magic mumbo-jumbo implanted false memories into her mind or something. Presumably, something similar would've happened no matter who found him. That goes a long way towards explaining why Tifa was acting off in a lot of previous cutscenes. She freaked out after hearing about Zack, but it wasn't because they had an illicit romance. Her mind was just struggling to rationalize what happened in reality against those false memories. Dang. Normally, after a plot twist like this, I'd get angry and wonder why Tifa never said anything, but this is actually a really clever way to resolve that plot hole. She couldn't say that anything was off about Cloud because she didn't realize it herself. All she had was a nagging doubt, but it never became solid enough to be put into words. Again, what the actual fuck. I'm probably going to spend all day at work tomorrow reexaming their relationship and wondering what was real and what wasn't. This was some mind-bending, confusing stuff, but I loved it.

While I was still reeling from that revelation, the plot continued. Red XIII fell for some pretty obvious tricks and handed over the Black Materia. Damn it Red, I trusted you! I should've given it to Barret, then I bet I'd have unlocked a secret ending where the good guys win right here and everything is fine. Instead, Cloud (or rather, the failed experiment acting as Cloud) handed it over to Sephiroth and everything went to shit. The party barely escaped on Rufus' airship, and a colossal beast called Weapon woke up to begin wreaking havoc on the world. That thing reminded me a bit of the Giant from FFIV, which is neat. While I'm at it, too, the fact that Jenova appeared in a big crater also reminded me of Lavos from Chrono Trigger. It's just this weird evil entity that crashed down from outer space (I think) to alter the course of history. FFVII is turning into a greatest hits of awesome plot points from other Square games. I like it.

The story refocused on Tifa waking up seven days later, because I guess she's the lead now. The world is in a bad spot. Weapon is destroying things, I guess because Sephiroth took it over when he became super powerful. He also managed to summon the meteor, which is now hovering ominously in the sky. As if that all wasn't bad enough, Tifa woke up just in time for her own execution. World-ending disasters aren't enough to stop Rufus from being a moron. Cait Sith appears to have defected at least, but he only did it after everything went to hell so I still don't forgive him. Barret tried really hard to rescue Tifa from the gas chamber, but he failed miserably. Tifa had to rescue herself (after a silly slap-fight with Scarlet), and then everyone escaped aboard the airship. Woohoo, an airship! I'll never have to drive around in that awful water airplane ever again.

It was fun catching up with everyone again, even an airsick Yuffie. Tifa is still holding out hope that Cloud can be found... and I assume he will be. I mean, I know he's in Advent Children, he isn't gone forever. He's gone for now, though, which means that the game has stolen two of my overleveled party members! Some of those fights with just Cait Sith and Barret were a genuine struggle. I'd almost forgotten what that felt like, and I was thankful when they managed to team up with Yuffie. If the game ever takes away Tifa too, I could be in real trouble! For now, my party will be Tifa, Yuffie, and... let's go with Vincent, why not. I equipped everyone, set up their Materia, and then flew just far enough on the world map so that I could land and save. The last thing I want to say is that the way the meteor is hanging over the world map now is freaky and I love it.

I chuckled at a line in that post but I won't tell you which line!!

The delivery of the Cloud revelation is a little muddled but you'll have to wait and see for more details there. Schizo (the Hydra boss) is usually a little tricky too, 18,000 HP per head but if you have elemental stuff equipped or are power-levelled then it's np... I guess there's 1 more boss fight I'm interested in seeing how you perform against. Well 2 more technically I guess, hehe.

Robazoid posted...

Even once I found the cabin leading to the next area, I actually went back into the wasteland until I was convinced I'd found everything. I killed a sexy snow lady for the Alexander summon.

Do you know how hard it is it get that summon.... the snow lady only fights you if you've touched the hot springs which iirc are nowhere near where she is. Compounding with the fact that after taking a certain number of steps in that environment, the game assumes you're lost and knocks you unconscious and you awaken in the cabin, so not sure if you found the cabin that way or if you actually found it the way you were supposed to. I'm still impressed regardless!!! But yeah summons in FF7 aren't worth it except for 2 (and Bahamut vs. Demon's Gate for more "normal" players, lol) andddd even then they're only really worth it for one superboss fight imo.

So I think this is another part of the game where it doesn't give you direction on where to go next like with the keystone search but way easier to figure out (and no Tiny Bronco navigation to deal with either, lol)

I used, uh, Hades a lot when I played. It is a long ass summon, and I used.it in gold saucer fights, and each time I used it, I would run to my marimba and practice a part for band.

The crater scenes alone cement Sephiroth as a good villain for me. He's so good during this part of the game.

Robazoid posted...

reminded me of Lavos from Chrono Trigger. It's just this weird evil entity that crashed down from outer space (I think) to alter the course of history. FFVII is turning into a greatest hits of awesome plot points from other Square games. I like it.

Too bad no Aerith doll to get stabbed instead ;_;

In case you were curious, if you weren't using Tifa, she gets forced into your party around the time of that Jenova fight, so you wouldn't miss her reaction during that segment.

Vincent may well have been my least favorite party member, but it's good to at least try him out. Summons aren't essential I guess but I did use them on boss fights for some extra damage. The early ones are likely not worth it for that at this point for you. Though Choco/Mog is still nice since it adds the Stop status, so it can be worth using in some fights.

With summon materia, I would have one on each active party member, and whenever I got a new summon, I would kick the oldest one to the curb.

MartinFF7 posted...

Do you know how hard it is it get that summon.... the snow lady only fights you if you've touched the hot springs which iirc are nowhere near where she is. Compounding with the fact that after taking a certain number of steps in that environment, the game assumes you're lost and knocks you unconscious and you awaken in the cabin, so not sure if you found the cabin that way or if you actually found it the way you were supposed to.

I ran around a whole bunch without fainting, but I guess since I found a cave leading to the world map it would've reset the counter? Once I went back in and found my first landmark, I didn't have too much trouble navigating. I found the cabin on my own, but I fainted a few times after that while getting the summon. The part I struggled with most was finding the exact spot on the ledge where I could walk in and touch the hot spring.

MartinFF7 posted...

So I think this is another part of the game where it doesn't give you direction on where to go next like with the keystone search but way easier to figure out (and no Tiny Bronco navigation to deal with either, lol)

Red XIII said there was a lot of lifestream on a southern island, so I assume that's the next plot zone. Since I'm not exploring on that awful airplane, though, I'll probably go around the rest of the world map first and see what I can find. I've barely used Vincent, he needs training!

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I used, uh, Hades a lot when I played. It is a long ass summon, and I used.it in gold saucer fights, and each time I used it, I would run to my marimba and practice a part for band.

Hades is probably the most useful summon in the game purely for its Added Effect Materia effects, and not actually summoning it

WazzupGenius00 posted...

Hades is probably the most useful summon in the game purely for its Added Effect Materia effects, and not actually summoning it

Well, that and Phoenix, obviously

The translation of all those cutscenes at the northern crater is so bad. As a kid, I understood absolutely zero of it, and even today I think I only understand like 80%.

That's my theory about why the earlier Aerith plot twist is the most famous one in the game--nobody could follow any of the others!

honestly, retranslating the term "Sephiroth clone" as something else more accurate for English would solve at least half of the plot misconceptions alone

yeah I feel like I understand it 100% today but back then, maybe not so much. It's tough to say more right now but we'll revisit this once Roba gets past a certain part of the game...

Leonhart4 posted...

Well, that and Phoenix, obviously

oh wow I totally forgot about Phoenix. Ok 3 summons.

and yeah Added Effect + Hades on weapon is nice, also like it on armor until you can procure a 3rd Ribbon.

I began today's session by flying around the world! The NPC dialogue was 1/3 the same (the guy in the dig town was even still talking about the Lunar Harp, I'm way past that dude). 1/3 of it was new dialogue about Meteor or how crappy the world is now. All of that was interesting to read and made my little trek worthwhile. And 1/3 of the dialogue was essentially "go to the southern island to progress the plot you idiot". I probably would've figured that out on my own. After all, it was the only new town on the map. There was something important I needed to take care of first, though. I had to climb the Wutai tower with Yuffie.

I'm guessing this was designed to be undertaken way earlier, because it was super easy. I just cast Haste on Yuffie first turn, then Regen, and then spammed basic attacks until the enemy died. Yuffie even defeated her dad with this unbeatable strategy. As for the plot, sometimes fighting it out is the best way to solve an argument. By the end, Yuffie and her dad understood each other's points of view. Her dad even encouraged Yuffie to steal all the Materia once they were done saving the world, haha. That little bit of character development made the whole Materia Thief quest worthwhile. Yuffie is great.

After that, I finally went to the town the game was pointing me towards. It turned out that Cloud was there, but he was in a wheelchair and speaking nonsense (at one point he said "Xeno... gears...", what could it mean???). Still, he was alive, and that was enough for Tifa to decide to stay by his side. Son of a bitch, that's my entire A team! Aeris died, Cloud went crazy, and now Tifa is leaving me behind too. Just to rub salt in the wound, worst character Cid was the new leader. He may have been nominally in charge, but that was only because Yuffie was off vomiting from airsickness when the leader was chosen. Make no mistake, when I formed a party of her, Cid, and Vincent, Yuffie was the one who was really in command.

Thanks to Cait Sith, the team overheard a conversation about Shinra planning to launch a bunch of Materia at the meteor. That sounds like a plan that wouldn't work, I mean this is a magical world-destroying monstrosity, not just a regular old space rock. So, the team set out to get to the huge Materia first. Yuffie (not Cid) led the charge on Corel. They hopped onto a train, fought their way to the front, and then managed to stop it with four minutes to spare. I got the Ultima Materia for my troubles, aw yeah. Then came Fort Condor, and... ugh, I have to play this awful minigame again? I won't lie, I looked up a strategy because I didn't want to have to do this again if I failed. And, thankfully, it turns out I didn't need to do anything. I just let the bad guys reach the shack and then I won an incredibly easy fight. My reward here was the Pheonix summon, aw yeah again!

After this, the crew decided to head over and check on Tifa and Cloud. They got there just in time to intercept an attack from Weapon. Right away, this fight was looking dicey. I was already envisioning myself reloading, grinding for an hour to make Cid and Vincent not suck, and then trying again. Thankfully, though, this was one of those battles I didn't need to win. It just flew off after a few turns. Everyone tried to escape the collapsing town (which was a neat scene), but Tifa and Cloud didn't make it. They fell into the lifestream, and into the shattered remnants of Cloud's mind.

This was a unique setting with a lot of weird dreamlike stuff, like multiple Clouds and impossible locations. I thought it was really cool. Tifa spoke to the various bits of Cloud's psyche, slowly piecing together the person he used to be. Again, I might be wrong about some of this, but here's my understanding now. Cloud is, in fact, an actual person. I was wrong about that in my write-up yesterday, but Tifa herself essentially said "I know Sephiroth said you weren't real, but these memories are real and therefore you are real", so I wasn't stupid yesterday. I was supposed to think Cloud wasn't real. On the other hand, I guess I was stupid with my "Tifa's memories were messed with by Jenova" theory. I guess she just didn't tell Cloud any of this because she was worried how he might react? That's kind of lame. Then again, this flashback has been expanded on several times now. Maybe there's still one more time where we'll delve into the past and Tifa's silence will make a bit more sense. Again, in my defense, the exact line that Sephiroth said (taken from the script) is "Jenova has merged with Tifa's memories, creating you." I took that to mean Jenova was responsible for Tifa's memories, but I guess not.

Anyway, this section expanded on Cloud's backstory a lot. He was an outcast as a kid but wanted to get close to Tifa (and I mean, look how hot she grew up to be, can you blame him). He followed her into the mountains, she got injured, and everyone blamed Cloud even though it wasn't his fault. This made him even more of an outcast, and also drove him to join SOLDIER to get stronger so that Tifa would notice him. Sadly, he failed, and he became a regular soldier instead. Turns out he was one of those faceless goons during the Nibelheim disaster. So he was there, just not playing the role everyone assumed he was. That's a pretty neat twist! I also liked how Zack got wrecked instantly by Sephiroth, but Cloud was able to injure him and then toss him into the reactor. Lowly soldier Cloud killed the great hero Sephiroth, that's badass. Still not sure how he survived those wounds though. Maybe there's another flashback coming up where Hojo turns him into the Sephiroth clone, I dunno. There's still a gap between "everyone is injured" and "Tifa finds Cloud on the street years later and doesn't say anything even though he's acting like a crazy person".

Once all of this was figured out, Cloud and Tifa finally emerged from the dreamworld. Everyone was glad to have him back, but no one was happier than me. My A team is restored! I kicked Vincent and Cid to the curb, geared up Cloud/Tifa/Yuffie, and then landed to save for the evening. The last thing I'll say is that Yuffie is great. When Cloud went up to her, they bonded over their shared struggles with motion sickness. Then Yuffie asked to get put in the party so she could get off the airship for a bit. Also, back when the party rediscovered Cloud, I liked how Yuffie was steadfast in her belief that Cloud would get better because, quote from the script, "WE'RE here for him. He's gotta get better!". This ninja lady is alright.

Robazoid posted...

Make no mistake, when I formed a party of her, Cid, and Vincent, Yuffie was the one who was really in command.

Man that would end poorly. At least put Barret or Red in charge.

Barret didn't WANT to be in charge, respect his wishes!

If he knew Yuffie was being given control he might have changed his mind!

It was a quest to, essentially, steal Materia from Shinra. I can think of no one better to lead such a mission than the Materia thief herself!

Mobilezoid posted...

It was a quest to, essentially, steal Materia from Shinra. I can think of no one better to lead such a mission than the Materia thief herself!

https://i.imgur.com/8UJpsmd.gif

(ok maybe that's not the best reaction gif but you honestly made such a good point!! if she wasn't optional they might've gone that route, we'll see how Remake Pt 3 handles that...)

btw when you're able to in the game, head back down to the Shinra Mansion basement, where Sephiroth did the goofy fly-by.

Go to the Shinra Mansion basement in Nibelheim and try to examine stuff around the library afterwards

Also Sephiroth was indeed trying to say Jenova manipulated Tifa's memories, but shocking news, he was lying.

For the final fight in the Pagoda in my first play through, I remember at one point that Yuffie got mini'ed. However, I had thought that rather than Yuffie getting smaller that the boss got bigger, and there was nothing I could do about all my attacks dealing 1 damage, so I never healed mini. I think I did end up winning with poison, but it was a long fight.

I had her equipped with a Ribbon I found in the snowy mountain, so I didn't need to worry about status effects. That probably made the fights a lot easier than they would've been

Leonhart4 posted...

Also Sephiroth was indeed trying to say Jenova manipulated Tifa's memories, but shocking news, he was lying.

Maybe he was just mistaken. Like he didn't remember cloud being there so he just assumed.

pjbasis posted...

Maybe he was just mistaken. Like he didn't remember cloud being there so he just assumed.

I think he remembers Cloud throwing him to his death

That was so embarrassing he probably blocked it from memory.

"And then I DOVE into the mako because that was my plan all along...yeah."

Sephiroth's just a Grade A dick, is all

in fact (Rebirth speculation based on trailers to-date, don't look at this Roba) it's looking like he's putting a twist on it now, trying to convince Cloud that Tifa died in the reactor so the Tifa with him is a Jenova-created imposter? (Summer Game Fest trailer beginning at 2:44 mark, but really the 3:10 to 3:16 bit)

Sephiroth is mind game master

pjbasis posted...

"And then I DOVE into the mako because that was my plan all along...yeah."

Well, it turned out to be a shortcut to the big crater because his body reformed there. Maybe it was his plan! It certainly seems to have worked out for him so far

I'll begin today's update with a confession. I checked a guide for how to get the level 4 limit breaks for Cloud, Yuffie, and Tifa. I didn't want to miss out on them. Turns out I already had Yuffie's from the Wutai tower, she just can't learn it until she gets her second level 3. As for Tifa, I never would've figured out this piano otherwise. Even after looking up the song I needed to play, the keyboard controls were so wonky that it took me several tries to input it. As for Cloud, that involved doing a few rounds in the Battle Arena. At level 50, with a ribbon, a super powerful sword I found, and the Counterattack materia, it was pretty easy. After three rounds in there, I had learned Omnislash!

I also went to the mansion's basement as you guys suggested, and I'm glad I did. It filled in the gap between the Nibelheim disaster and Cloud and Zack escaping. Sadly, Zack got killed right away by some regular soldiers. For a guy in SOLDIER, Zack isn't very tough, is he? I liked how he wanted to go back and see Aeris, though. At least he didn't forget about her like she'd feared. I would've been disappointed if the story never filled in this information, so I'm glad I saw this cutscene.

Anyway, getting back to the plot, I headed over to Junon and fought my way onto a submarine. There was one robot boss who gave me a bit of trouble when it picked up Cloud and kept punching him, but I managed to kill it with Yuffie's limit break. Next came the submarine minigame. It gave me a ten minute timer, but I locked onto the enemy sub right away and won in thirty seconds. After that, I had a submarine to explore under the sea. This was a nice surprise! I wasn't expecting another vehicle after the airship. I did a loop around the ocean and found a weird key in a cave. Then I found a cave that expanded on Vincent's backstory a little bit. He was in love with a girl, but she fell for Hojo instead (man, Hojo must just be the sexiest guy in the universe). Then Vincent got shot and experimented on. The biggest revelation here was that Hojo and the lady scientist are Sephiroth's real parents. I guess that makes more sense than it literally being Jenova, I don't see those weird monster fragments getting pregnant even if Hojo probably is depraved enough to have try having sex with them (for science, of course).

The next thing that I found underwater was a crashed airplane. I went inside, easily killed the Turks who were trying to salvage it, and then... I nearly died to the first random encounter. The monsters in this place were hard! Even with my overleveled party, every battle was a struggle. At least the insane loot here made it all worthwhile. The sword I found here for Cloud, plus the Double Cut Materia, really helped out when I finally went and did the Battle Arena. I also saw a big green thing swimming around in the depths, but I can recognize a superboss when I see it. Maybe I'll go back and fight it later, but for now I used my Reaper Leviathan dodging skills from Subnautica and stayed the hell away from it.

After this, the party flew over to the rocket town. Even though I'd stolen every single Huge Materia, Shinra was still planning to launch it at the meteor. Cloud, Yuffie, and Tifa had no problem fighting their way onboard. Then Cid forced his way into the party (ugh) and immediately decided he didn't want to stop the launch after all (UGH). Cloud made a great point about the Huge Materia having a ton of knowledge that could help defeat Sephiroth. But nope, Cid only cares about fulfilling his dream of going into space. I know this because, the instant he got into space, he was like "lol that's checked off my bucket list, okay I don't care anymore, let's abort the plan". Cid is the absolute worst. He couldn't even remember the password to his own rocket, forcing me to brute force it in a dumb minigame (thankfully there weren't that many possible combinations once he gave me a few clues). The only thing that slightly redeemed him was that he realized Shera was right all those years ago. I still hate Cid, but I'm glad he toned down his awfulness by at least 1%.

The rocket, predictably since it had no Materia on it, failed to do anything to the meteor. Having no other ideas, the crew decided to head over to Cosmo Canyon to talk to Red's grandpa. He suggested going to the Ancient city where Aeris died. He also revealed the purpose of the Huge Materia. Most of them didn't do anything, but the blue one gave me Bahamut Zero! I put this summon on Cloud and it wound up saving my ass just a little bit later. For a moment I wondered if Red's grandpa might join the party, I mean he looks kind of like Tellah from FFIV and can't be that much older. Sadly, he just tagged along.

In the Ancient city, that key I randomly found at the bottom of the ocean turned out to be the clue everyone needed. By replaying an image of the past, they realized that Aeris hadn't died for nothing. Using knowledge only she had, she'd prayed to the planet and unlocked Holy, the only thing that can stop the meteor. Sephiroth is blocking it at the moment, but if the party kills him, the world can be saved. Meanwhile, Rufus had the same idea, He'd relocated the giant cannon to Midgar in order to fire it at Sephiroth. Weapon didn't like that, so it rose from the ocean and began marching on the city.

Even if Rufus is stupid and evil, there are a lot of innocent people in Midgar. The party decided to intercept Weapon. It had been so long since I'd struggled in a fight, even against bosses. Surely this would be a cakewalk too! Then the battle started, and... attacks deal zero damage. No biggie, I'll just use my magic spells and... 200 damage each. And Weapon's attacks are hitting me like a truck. Uh oh. In my desperation, I finally used summons. Phoenix on Tifa didn't do a whole lot, and neither did Hades on Yuffie. Then Cloud brought in Bahamut Zero, and it did over 7000 damage! This triggered Weapon's counterattack. Once its countdown hit zero, it hammered my party with a spell that nearly killed everyone. Unfortunately for Weapon, it also filled up everyone's limit gauges. Yuffie and Tifa softened it up. Then Cloud annihilated it with my very first Omnislash. Victory!

Rufus fired the cannon, killing Weapon and eliminating the barrier protecting Sephiroth. As an added bonus, Weapon fired one final volley before dying, and it appears to have killed Rufus too. Double victory! Now everyone in my party is saying it's time to go and face Sephiroth. Since it looks like I'm about to start the final dungeon, I landed and saved for the night.

There were some nice character moments during this session too. Cait Sith said that he finally told his hostages, Marlene and Aeris' mother, about the death of Aeris. He said they didn't take it well. Man, how many times is this game going to make me feel genuinely sad about the death of a fictional character? I also liked the argument between Barret and Cait Sith about the people who died due to Avalanche blowing up the reactors at the beginning of the game. I still don't like the traitorous Cait Sith, but he had a fair point there. I also want to talk about everyone's favorite ninja, Yuffie. I love how her motion sickness has turned into an ongoing subplot. She was doing an agonized squirm the entire time we were on the submarine. And whenever I talked to her on the airship between plot events, no matter what insanity was going on in the world, it always made me laugh that she was bent over a railing struggling not to throw up. She was the one I chose to bring into space alongside Cloud and Cid. Yuffie was one of the three first people to experience the majesty of space travel... and all she cared about in that historic moment was stealing the Huge Materia! I love you, Yuffie.

That bonus cutscene with Zack is the entire basis of Crisis Core, so you can play that for more. It also has Aerith and Yuffie. I hesitate to recommend it since you'll probably end up a Genesis fan, but there you go.

But then you can watch Advent Children and I'll feel a little better about something else you said in that post.

I'm actually planning to watch Advent Children once I beat the game. I can rent the Complete version for five bucks on Prime Video. Not sure I'll delve into any of the spinoff games though

I'll go ahead and say that the FFVII remake will assume you are familiar with the compilation material

Robazoid posted...

I would've been disappointed if the story never filled in this information, so I'm glad I saw this cutscene.

So fun fact, the original release in Japan did not have that scene at all. It was only added to the overseas version and then the "International" re-release Japan got later.

Leonhart4 posted...

I'll go ahead and say that the FFVII remake will assume you are familiar with the compilation material

Yeah I was thinking last night of the scene in Django Unchained when Schultz says "Now you can get the marshall". Only after beating original FF7, then watching Advent Children, then beating Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - Reunion (and heavily, heavily optional Dirge of Cerberus though not as optional before playing INTERmission I guess):

"Now you can play Final Fantasy VII Remake", lol

Should also play KH1 for Cid H redemption

Leonhart4 posted...

I'll go ahead and say that the FFVII remake will assume you are familiar with the compilation material

No chance. FF7R1 definitely doesn't assume you're familiar with the original.

FF7R2 won't even assume you played FF7R1

MacArrowny posted...

No chance. FF7R1 definitely doesn't assume you're familiar with the original.

....are we really going to do this song and dance again? Yes, in theory you can play Remake without the original but you will miss so much more not having done so.

pjbasis posted...

FF7R2 won't even assume you played FF7R1

This is slightly more true tbh, like I know S-E is explicitly saying that but of course they would, they want to sell more copies after all. But still there is a loooot of context that will be lost w/o playing Remake that couldn't properly be captured in a "datalog" or opening recap cutscene or whatever!

MartinFF7 posted...

....are we really going to do this song and dance again? Yes, in theory you can play Remake without the original but you will miss so much more not having done so.

I'd argue you miss more having played the original, since plot points aren't as fresh when you've seen them before.

Fun fact: you can fail at getting the huge materias (fail at the sub minigame, lose the boss fight at Ft Condor, and fail to get the rocket combination). Doesn't change anything and Shinra's plan still fails.

I'm kinda trying to remember whether anything in the game was there to inspire you to go back to the Nibelheim mansion to see that scene with Zack. Despite using a guide, my first playthrough, I somehow still missed Vincent until Disc 2 or 3 and went back to get him, and I think that's when I saw it.

could not disagree more Mac but we will need to agree to disagree on this! We'll let Roba make the call when he plays it, lol.

Fiop: yeah there is no prompt for that, but makes sense considering what WazzupGenius00 said above which I also didn't know, very interesting.

I also resurfaced a "first time playing" memory based on your post, and Roba's earlier post about being in the Whirlwind Maze area and "If I didn't know better, I would've thought I was heading towards the final boss". Because of my trials and tribulations playing the buggy PC game, I never recruited Yuffie or Vincent, and I got to Disc 3 and there was that "nearing end of game" feeling of course, and in my mind I'm like "oh this is another fake-out like before, I haven't even gotten those 2 characters who were included in that little booklet that came with the game!"

....lol :(

Also another funny story about recruiting Vincent on Disc 3 but will save that/try to remember it for later.

Fiop posted...

Fun fact: you can fail at getting the huge materias (fail at the sub minigame, lose the boss fight at Ft Condor, and fail to get the rocket combination). Doesn't change anything and Shinra's plan still fails.

You can let the train crash into North Corel, too!

You miss out on Ultima if that happens though.

Also from everything I've heard about Rebirth, players who only know VII or VIIR are going to be super confused

But maybe you're fine being super confused!

Leonhart4 posted...

Also from everything I've heard about Rebirth, players who only know VII or VIIR are going to be super confused

But maybe you're fine being super confused!

So you're saying Rebirth isn't going to explain who any of the characters from side content are? That'd be pretty ridiculous, since Remake already explains who all the characters in it are when necessary.

There's a difference between "the game told me who that is" and "oh I know who that is"

Those things hit differently

But like I said, if you're okay with being the former, I'm sure you'll still have a fine experience, but there's a reason why Square released Crisis Core HD in between part 1 and part 2.