Board 8 > TP Link continues to plays Trails: Copaganda Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

Rixia #1 no horny posting here

But actually #17 is crazy she's def top 10

10- KeA

In Tita's write-up, I mentioned how she was the kid who made the struggle worth fighting for. Well, KeA is that tenfold.

KeA is just adorable. There is all there is to it. Everything, from her portraits, to her voice, to her innocence, is just extremely likable. I thought it was funny that she was worried she was using her powers to make people like her, because since I'm not a character in the story and therefore immune to her fictional power, I can attest she is really that easy to like. So we will never know whether the cast of Crossbell loved her for that or because of her powers, but considering that power is based on controlling timelines, and that I don't think there a timeline where people don't think KeA is cute is possible, she shouldn't be worried imo.

I suspect the reason Anelace doesn't appear in this arc is that if she met KeA, she would die. Her heart would literally stop. And we can't have that. Also if she saw Penguin KeA, Zemuria would collapse in a singularity of cuteness.

And then there is the Demiourgos stuff. KeA ends up being the thing the villains want, because of course she is, you can't have a mysterious green haired girl with powers who was asleep in a tube if she is not critical to everything. And the bad guys make it work through sheer manipulation, by making her believe she is the only one who can stop her family from dying. And the cruel twist is that she already did that once, so the bad guys have a point. It's clear for anyone who is savvy about this stuff that this plan would never work in the long run, because bad things will always happen sooner or later, but it works because KeA is a child, so a simple explanation convinces her.

That is, until Lloyd breaks into her dimension and brings her back to the light. And then, it turns out one of the things that made the plot of Crossbell work was something similar to Sky: Love. Except then it was a couple's love, and now it's the love of parents towards their child. The SSS ended up not only being the best RPG party, but KeA's parents, and they formed a bond that made the entire story worthwhile. It's okay if this game doesn't have canon romances, because it's already getting a perfect love story with KeA and her family.

9- Elie

I suspect the SSS write-ups will be difficult because they mostly boil down to the same thing: these are very likable people. Even when individual members are not special, the fact is that I'm so comfortable watching those four talk to each other, so confident that they are all people I could easily make friends with IRL, so awed at their impossible chemistry, that I just want them all in the top 10. If the SSS Four could be ranked together, they would be #1 in this list, no contest.

But how about Elie herself? She is fated to be the least exciting of the four, but I've seen people dunk on her online and I don't get it. She runs laps around most of Sky's cast in terms of sheer likability.

Elie's role as "the boring one" is deceptive. A character like that exists to provide emotional grounding to the group. She is the most mature. The most emotionally stable. The one who can keep her cool when other characters are having breakdowns, and be the supporting friend they need. Elie's presence in the party automatically makes them more friendly, more coherent. She is the one with the wisdom score. Her role is similar to Joshua and Kevin's, but those two were so full of issues they demanded help as much as they provided, Elie doesn't.

Elie's immediate equivallent that comes to mind is Kloe, but Elie is better because she is more flawed. Kloe was so pure, she was untouchable. Nobody messed with her, and she didn't mess with anyone. Elie snarks, she joins the party banter and cracks jokes, and she finds herself in embarassing situations. Even if Elie is not the most fun of the four, she manages to be a counterbalance to the silliness of others while still adding to the fun herself.

Elie is also a great partner to Lloyd in their work because she gets politics and negotiations, way better than the others (Wazy probably does too, but he doesn't care enough to chime in). So she can contribute to the deductions while adding the very important component of politics to the solving of the mystery.

She suffers a bit because she is the first main character to get her development, early in Zero chapter 2, and she doesn't progress much from that. But I tend to think people overrate the importance of constant character development. Elie gets a pretty good arc, becomes a better person and then spends a game and a half just being great. I don't need much else.

Another thing that may take some points from her is the way they handled her romance, though that's more on Falcom than on Elie. Looking back after the game is over, her bonding scene in Azure feels VERY forced. It escalates very quickly, and then because the scene is optional, the dialogue after feels like it has way less chemistry between her and Lloyd than it should be, so the whole thing feels like a weird dream. The bonding scene in Zero is better because it escalates less, I can buy that those two are into each other, not that they are about to be married. Anyway, I wanted to post this and this felt like a good place.

8- Kevin

He shows up, but it really has cameo written all over. He's here to be badass and provide some wolrdbuilding Wazy can relate with. It's nice to learn his new dominion name though, and that he took it from Rufina! Kevin has recovered a lot since 3rd, or at least it looks like he did, you never know since he is a master at concealing his feelings. But we see Ries is now keeping a close eye on him, so that he doesn't lose it without her noticing again. This is one of the best duos in the series honestly, even if it's not clear whether they are romantic or not.

Me: "these write-ups will be hard to make"
Also me: [drops a TL;DR]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/02a46b77.jpg

sorry forgot to post this when it was appropriate

Elie isn't near the top of my rankings, but she definitely runs laps around all the other "weakest members of their main cast" characters.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

She suffers a bit because she is the first main character to get her development, early in Zero chapter 2, and she doesn't progress much from that. But I tend to think people overrate the importance of constant character development. Elie gets a pretty good arc, becomes a better person and then spends a game and a half just being great. I don't need much else.

The argument against her is less that she is undeveloped and more that she had so much promise in the context of this specific story, and, yet, as a set piece, they mostly leave her on the table to look pretty and that's the extent of it. No, she contributes little to the Azure Wish because that's mainly between KeA, Lloyd, and the antagonists, but she could have been, if theoretically or philosophically, more deeply involved in the political aspect of the conflict. She was poised for it. That's all, really. She's fine, but hers is a tale of lost potential when the story writes itself. She is the worst example of this to date and for a little while, arguably.

zinformant posted...

The argument against her is less that she is undeveloped and more that she had so much promise in the context of this specific story, and, yet, as a set piece, they mostly leave her on the table to look pretty and that's the extent of it. No, she contributes little to the Azure Wish because that's mainly between KeA, Lloyd, and the antagonists, but she could have been, if theoretically or philosophically, more deeply involved in the political aspect of the conflict. She was poised for it. That's all, really. She's fine, but hers is a tale of lost potential when the story writes itself. She is the worst example of this to date and for a little while, arguably.

Hmm makes sense. Maybe it was hard to add some big political win in the structure that the writers are used to, which is to have the PCs lose 30 consecutive times only to get a single, definitive win at the end of the second game. SC did the same. So she really can't untangle the political mess until the last chapter, when it's less politics and more stopping the doomsday device.

Also there's the fact the arc is structured like a detective book, where you go solving mystery after mystery until the truth reveals itself and the story ends. That requires the good guys to be clueless most of the time, which maybe gets in the way of politics and negotiation. Normally she would be negotiating with Dieter or Grimwood, but we have to hide the fact those guys are even bad.

But I'm mostly speculating, I guess a good writer could work a big Elie moment into that stuff if they wanted to.

Good insights.

7- Tio

The next SSS main to drop is the obligatory nerd of the party. In a setting where the internet is now a thing, Tio is the "person who gets computers". That makes her a lot more plot device-y than most of the cast, especially since she has a magical staff that hacks things. Not that I mind, those hacking battles with the colorful avatars are lit.

How about the rest? Well, Tio is also the party's resident snarker. The SSS has some edge, and she is clearly the edgiest of the four, making snarky remarks about Lloyd and Elie getting embarassing about each other, or Randy being a doofus. That said, I feel like they ended up undershooting her snark a bit, because she doesn't quite have a lot of super funny quotes. It's always someone else getting embarassed and Tio saying what the audience is probably thinking. Then again, that's a good role, which she performs incredibly well. The SSS's whole thing is that they are very likable, and Tio is a well oiled cog in that machine of RPG party perfection. None of the four have extremely funny quirks, but they are all really likable people.

Tio does have her moments of pure comedy though, mainly with the Mishy stuff. I wasn't sure exactly what to feel about her constant fangirling of the dumb cat, but when we get to Misheland and she doubles down on it, I'm all in. My favorte sequence is the sidequest where she first learns Mishy is not real, then coaches Lloyd into being the perfect Mishy, then finally meets the man who dons the legendary mascot's suit, to everyone's trauma.

And her arc? Well it's probably the best of them, after Randy's that is. She was traumatized by what the cult did to her, and for a long time, she couldn't feel emotions. So she has to learn, bit by bit, to feel and to express what she feels. It's very heartwarming to see each time she progresses, and great to see how frequently she starts crying near the end of Azure. In most stories it would be annoying, but here it's a way for the game to show how TIo has overcome her inability to emote. Leave it to Elie to keep herself together, Tio needs to cry, danmit.

6- Joshua

He gets knocked out of the top 5 by the introduction of our two SSS boys. And also because Joshua is kind of whatever in this arc. He has to be here because Estelle has to be her and he's glued to her forever, but both of their arcs are done, and what's left to solve, the Renne stuff, is mostly performed by Estelle.

Joshua isn't someone who with other people's emotional issues, he is someone who is helped instead, and he doesn't need help at this point of time. Maybe in a future arc, if the writers can come up with a new conflict for the couple. Then again, their ending in Sky SC was so perfect I'm ok if they never evolve from that, and just show up to greet us.

Only 5 left now. Estelle, Lloyd, Randy, Renne and Olivier.

now that is a good top 5

5- Lloyd

So when I started Zero, the protagonist was definitely my least favorite of the main four. Not only he was mostly a generic shonen hero, he was also the most cop-like cop in this setting of cops. The SSS is a group with varied backgrounds who are recruited to a group that is mostly bracers with a cop flavor. But Lloyd was already a cop before then. He is very by-the-book with the way he approaches things, and he didn't mesh well with the party at first. I think the worst scene was when they met Grace at the bar and he didn't even want to give her the time of the day, because cops aren't supposed to share info with journalists. I hated Lloyd for sinking my hopes of seeing a repeat of the classic Estelle-Nial relationship.

But the guy grows on you. Because like a good hero, he is more good than lawful, and though he doesn't quite break the law, he doesn't mind operating on the edge of it to get things done. This is what the SSS is good for, after all. And the shonen hero stuff never stops being forced, but the reality is that it just works. Characters are suffering and Lloyd just says what they need to hear. And the team spirit building speeches work because the party does feel like a team. It's a different experience from Estelle, who was so naturally likable and magnetic she just had to be herself and people would follow her. Llloyd has to force it a bit and make an insanly cheesy speech first, which will make the listeners roll their eyes... but in the end, they will follow him too.

He doesn't quite get an obvious character arc like Randy and Tio do, falling closer to Elie in that regard. His arc is more likel stepping out of Guy's shadow, becoming the person he was always meant to be. Which, besides a detective and a Bracer with a Badge, also includes being a really good dad. But he didn't have to grow that much to reach that level. Lloyd, like Elie, was a more complete individual from the start.

With all that stuff out of the way, there is one main reason he is so high in this list.

A few years ago, I made a playthrough of the Danganronpa series, where I also this this routine of ranking characters after each game. For the first game, my favorite character was Kyoko, the Ultimate Detective. She wasn't that deep of a character, but her role in the game was just so entertaining.

The Crossbell arc is a detective story. It's a mystery game, not that far from the likes of Ace Attorney and Danranronpa, just without trial sections. In that setting, Lloyd is our detective, the one who lays down the answers to each mystery puts together the puzzle. The one the player keeps competiing with to figure things out. Just as I made those write-ups trying to crack the case, so did Lloyd, and sometimes I would beat him, while other times he would completely surprise me. This is one of the most fun aspects of the game, and Lloyd is the guy working that.

Now you could say that doesn't mean anything about Lloyd's character, you could have a generic guy who knew the puzzle answers, and that the setting helps Lloyd more than the other way around. Maybe, but it just works. I love being Lloyd. I love taking Lloyd to places like Revache and Heiyue and Rosemberg Studio just to see what kind of dirt he will uncover. And there some aspects of him that work in his favor. His super innocent and cheesy demeanor constrasts with the scenes when he is alone with SSS and he just starts breaking down people's motivations and allegiance. This kind of character normally isn't a political schemer, but Lloyd has that side of him too. And his relationship with Guy makes it compelling too. It gives him a chance to overcome the temptation of revenge and focus on bringing out the truth. So many characters would have lost it in this place, but by the time Lloyd finally learns who dunnit, he is just mature enough to do his job, save the kid and bring the culprits to trial.

Back in the Sky topic, I said in Estelle's write up that a good writer should nail the protagonist, because they create the tone of the series. Lloyd doesn't quite dominate the Crossbell games the way Estelle did with Sky, it's more of a group effort with the SSS. But he is the one responsible for the mystery aspect, which is one of the best parts of the exeprience. So yeah, protagonist nailed again.

Case closed.

This closes one tier. The next 4 are really my favorite characters in the series so far.

Current rankings:

10/10 Character Tier

5- Lloyd
6- Joshua
7- Tio
8- Kevin
9- Elie
10- KeA
11- Agate
12- Weissmann

Very High Tier

13- Arios
14- Ries
15- Richard
16- Kloe
17- Rixia
18- Nial
19- Anelace
20- Tita
21- Ilya
22- Zin

High Tier

23- Wazy
24- Cao Lee
25- Scherazard
26- Dudley
27- Jona
28- Dorothy
29- Campanella
30- Lechter

Mid-High Tier

31- Grace
32- Dieter
33- Gilbert
34- Cassius
35- Garcia
36- Kilika
37- Sergei
38- Dunan
39- Mogran
40- Shirley
41- Aina
42- Wald
43- Mariabell
44- Arianhod
45- Grimwood
46- Amalthea
47- Loewe
48- The Hayworths

Mid Tier

49- Joerg
50- Julia
51- Maybelle
52- Fran
53- Cecile
54- The Ravens
55- Noel
56- Osborne
57- Sigmund
58- Novartis
59- Bleublanc
60- Walter
61- Abbas
62- Zeit

Mid-Low Tier

63- Mueller
64- Guenter
65- Don
66- Luciola
67- Shizuku
68- Kurt
69- Sieg
70- Mierelle
71- Ernest
72- Sully

Low Tier

73- Hans
74- Erika
75- Rufina
76- Henry
77- Cid
78- Michel
79- Mary
80- Ein
81- Sonya
82- Guy
83- Kyle

Unlikable Tier

84- Jill
85- Albert Russel
86- Queen Alicia
87- Don Marconi
88- Dan Russel
89- Clem
90- Josette

Unranked:

Estelle
Olivier
Renne
Randy

That Lloyd has his head on straight is arguably why the ending works. After all, if the miracles of the goddess' treasures can cheese spacetime to resurrect him, why not use the same power on Guy, Crossbell at large, or any other whim? Isn't that fair, just, or right? Well, the law is impartial, and Lloyd makes arguably the correct decision to not succumb to temptations and reject the Azure Wish. It's arguably not only a central theme of the Zero games but the series at large. Virtually anyone else would have handled things differently.

glad to see the right character at number 1

i assume

apparently unpopular opinion but olivier has no business this high in the rankings

I'd have him somewhere from 8-12 probably but I don't mind him being high up

I actually spent at least half an hour awake in bed last night agonizing over who I should put in the 2-4 spots. I like them equally.

4- Olivier

Well, this was really hard. I love Olivier. The 2nd place feels right for him. Heck, he could be 1st place if a certain character didn't exist and it would feel right. He is the funniest character in the Trails series so far, no one can compete. And comedy is a huge reason for me to enjoy a character. And he's just a guy I can vibe with. He knows who is is, a spoony bard. But something happened to him, he saw something so disgusting he just felt the duty to do something about it. And now he is staging a rebellion against the continent's most evil empire. But at the same time, he's just counting the days until he can pick up his lute again and go play songs and get wasted with Schera and Aina in Rolent. I appreciate a character who knows who he is.

But I still need to see the missing piece, why Olivier is on this path. I just can't empathize with him so hard, especially after seeing the other monumental tragedies this series can tell.

Let's see if Cold Steel can do that. It might be the biggest reason I want to play that arc.

Oh, we are talking about Crossbell? It has Olivier too. Just a little. But it's that little piece of awesomeness, of him being himself in a pretty fun sidequest. That scene of Olivier showing up in Reinvalli to play a song felt so right it made my wish I was playing Sky again.

olivier defusing tension by making a moment unbearably awkward is definitely the best running bit in the series. i love that man

3- Randy

Let's talk a bit about other characters first. First, we have Joshua Bright. This is a guy who was brainwashed into joining Ouroboros, and then spent years of his life as an assassin, taking out targets to further his organization's goals. Another character worth mentioning is Renne. After an unthinkable series of bad events, she was recruited by the same organization. We don't know exactly how many people she killed, or whether she killed at all (the games are weirdly silent about that), but I assume you don't get named "Angel of Slaughter" for being a pacifist. Though maybe she killed less than Joshua, since she wasn't a dedicated assassin, and Ouroboros being the patient entity they are, enforcers probably spend more time waiting and minding their own businesses than carrying out missions. Finally, it is also worth it to mention Kevin Graham. A man who suffered another impossible series of tragedies, where he caused the death of two people he loved, and then volunteered to hunt heretics for his own organization. He spent years doing some very soul crushing work, including executing a child.

At the end of their respective bloody sprees, all three of them were left broken, traumatized. Kevin was looking for suicide, Joshua to go down in flames, and Renne just wanted to make the world burn. They needed the help of one Estelle (and one Ries) to find reasons to live again.

And I bet the combined kill counts of the three don't even come close to Randy's.

Put away for a bit the chill womanizer and imagine that, for 18 years, this guy was probably much closer in behavior and character to Sigmund and Shirley, the other Orlandos we know. He killed A LOT of people. He was born in war, grew in it. He killed people and probably enjoyed it. Laughed. Felt like it gave his life meaning. He killed rival jaggers. He killed civilians, even if as collateral damage. He killed children. Heck, maybe he tortured people too. He is was a commander of a jagger platoon, and chosen to one day lead the entire RC, you don't get there by having principles.

But that guy, that monster, one day, accidentally killed his own friend. And the whole thing is very hypocrite if you think about it. Why should one person matter more than everyone else Randy killed? But that's how people work. Randy felt the pain of loss, and the guilt of his own acts. And I imagine he started thinking about all the pain and all the loss that his hands caused, all at once. And that perspective broke him.

Randy is a broken man, and that's the beauty of it. Because he is the funniest guy in the party, the most chill, the friendly one, the guy you always want around. I could make a write up about how nice Randy is. But inside, he's suffering, all the time. He wakes up and goes to bed thinking of the families he destroyed.

So he runs away, tries to start anew. The CGF seems fine, he has the skills. But it's still too close to what he did before, he still has to use weapons and risk killing people. So he runs further, and joins the SSS, the furthest thing from an actual military while still being one he can find. And he declares he's here just for the pay, to blow it in casinos and women. For a while, it works, even if the pain won't go away. But he can focus on other things, ignore it day by day.

But then his past catches up. The RC arrives and tries to recruit him back. He refuses. But his past continues to chase him, as the RC is used to kill people in the Crossbell he loves, people from the CGF he cares about. So, like Joshua in SC, he decides to go down in flames too, redeem himself by destroying his horrible family.

Fortunately for him, his party includes a shonen protagonist, who works his magic and just makes him understand no matter how bad he is, how much he hates himself, they won't let him go. The SSS has a bond that is bigger than anyone's guilt. They don't "fix" him, they just create something so solid, he has a thing to live for. And Randy can stand again, beat his uncle and turn a page on his life. Become the person he could have been from the beginning had he not been raised to be a demon.

This is a character arc of pure beauty. And coming from the most likable character in the duology, too. He isn't as funny as Olivier, maybe. He is more down to Earth. But the SSS is, again, more than the sum of its parts, and Randy is the best part.

2- Renne

I've made two write-ups about this girl already. Why am I doing this again? Well, Trails somehow found a way to make Renne even more interesting.

She really needed that sequence with Lloyd, fooling around the city, because Renne is so fun. She is snarky and hyper aware of things, and she is trying really hard to be mean, but the little girl in her just can't help herself. And Lloyd is the right guy to mellow Renne out, being smart enough to realize something is off, but friendly enough to play along. I need more Renne in non-story heaven sequences. Let me do sidequests with her or something. I bet it will deliver.

We also get to break Renne's feelings open this time, show what was only implied before. And she is hit with another tragedy, of realizing her parents are completely blameless for what happened to her. But she still wants to hate them. So she can't bring herself to meet them. The sequence in Lloyd's bedroom where she is hidden in a closet then leaves to talk to the SSS, and THEN Estelle/Joshua arrive to explain her story, is truly magnificent.

And of course, we have the ending sequence, where Renne gets to make the most unexpected save. Rescue all those people she would never admit to caring about, but now does. Get a final revenge against the cult. And complete her journey, as pater Mater exposes what is inside her and takes her to Estelle, her new sister.

She has been in #3 long enough. Time to give her #2. There are great character arcs, and there is this. The Trails series holds you hostage between FC and SC with Joshua, but Renne is used to do this two more times. And they manage to stick the pay off, with room to spare.

The last 3 characters are close to interchangeable. This was the permutation that felt the most right now, but I could change. Truly great characters.

But there is only one queen.

1- Estelle

Man, I have so little to say. Estelle isn't even huge here. She just gets to spend another game being herself, and making the player read those boards at the guild just to get some more sweet Estelle dialogue. I don't think it's likely anyone in Trails can ever surpass her, because this is one of those characters for a lifetime. Estelle is not ony one of the funniest characters, but she also has a great arc, is super likable, and is a miracle worker of character development for other people.

Of course, we have to mention her doing it again, this time with Renne. Not alone, because the SSS plays an instrumental part. But it's so nice to see her hugging Renne at the end of Zero and being happy to add her to the Bright family.

On another note, I like that the Sky party is now united permanently, with characters like Kloe and Kevin and Olivier having Estelle as a point of contact so they can work together against the evils of Zemuria. And the SSS is now part of that network too.

And with this, the list and this playthrough topic have come to an end.

Bestelle Tier

1- Bestelle

God Tier

2- Renne
3- Randy
4- Olivier

10/10 Character Tier

5- Lloyd
6- Joshua
7- Tio
8- Kevin
9- Elie
10- KeA
11- Agate
12- Weissmann

Very High Tier

13- Arios
14- Ries
15- Richard
16- Kloe
17- Rixia
18- Nial
19- Anelace
20- Tita
21- Ilya
22- Zin

High Tier

23- Wazy
24- Cao Lee
25- Scherazard
26- Dudley
27- Jona
28- Dorothy
29- Campanella
30- Lechter

Mid-High Tier

31- Grace
32- Dieter
33- Gilbert
34- Cassius
35- Garcia
36- Kilika
37- Sergei
38- Dunan
39- Mogran
40- Shirley
41- Aina
42- Wald
43- Mariabell
44- Arianhod
45- Grimwood
46- Amalthea
47- Loewe
48- The Hayworths

Mid Tier

49- Joerg
50- Julia
51- Maybelle
52- Fran
53- Cecile
54- The Ravens
55- Noel
56- Osborne
57- Sigmund
58- Novartis
59- Bleublanc
60- Walter
61- Abbas
62- Zeit

Mid-Low Tier

63- Mueller
64- Guenter
65- Don
66- Luciola
67- Shizuku
68- Kurt
69- Sieg
70- Mierelle
71- Ernest
72- Sully

Low Tier

73- Hans
74- Erika
75- Rufina
76- Henry
77- Cid
78- Michel
79- Mary
80- Ein
81- Sonya
82- Guy
83- Kyle

Unlikable Tier

84- Jill
85- Albert Russel
86- Queen Alicia
87- Don Marconi
88- Dan Russel
89- Clem
90- Josette

Thanks for reading.

Pretty similar to my own top list of characters to be honest. I apparently have a thing for purple haired girls though because I had both Kloe and Rixia in my top 10 when I last thought about this. >.> (The rest are either characters from Cold Steel or characters you also put in your top 10)

Estelle and Renne the best.

common estelle w