Current Events > TIL: people didn't like the newest Doctor Strange movie

(+) Yeah! (+)

It was fun overall, but it has a lot of flaws if you try to think about it too hard.

Nemu posted...

It was fun overall, but it has a lot of flaws if you try to think about it too hard.

That's most of the MCU though. Even the good ones.

Yeah, it just suffered from mismatched marketing. The movie was supposed to be a Doctor Strange 2 movie, that followed up on Wandavison and opened a couple multiversal threads, and delivered pretty well on that. But marketing got away from them, and people were expecting it to instead be primarily a setup movie for the multiverse saga as a whole. The disconnect between what people wanted and what the movie ended soured it in a lot of people's eyes. I liked it, but I wasn't desperate for a new Thanos.

I still like it, but I feel like it didn't hold up after my initial watch for some reason. And I wasn't one of those people with insanely high multiverse expectations.

I think lately a lot of the titles for MCU movies have gotten a little too silly in general. "Quantumania" is a weird name, even after you realize "Ant Man" is part of the word. "Multiverse of Madness" sounds like some schlocky B-movie from the 70s or something.

Ever since Ragnarok, the MCU has been getting a little too fast-and-loose with its attempts to appeal to meme culture, I think.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I think lately a lot of the titles for MCU movies have gotten a little too silly in general. "Quantumania" is a weird name, even after you realize "Ant Man" is part of the word. "Multiverse of Madness" sounds like some schlocky B-movie from the 70s or something.

Ever since Ragnarok, the MCU has been getting a little too fast-and-loose with its attempts to appeal to meme culture, I think.

It has absolutely nothing to do with appealing to meme culture. Titles like Quantumania, Multiverse of Madness and the like have been as common in comics as silly character names like Ant-Man, Spider-Man,...

TheSavageDragon posted...

It has absolutely nothing to do with appealing to meme culture. Titles like Quantumania, Multiverse of Madness and the like have been as common in comics as silly character names like Ant-Man, Spider-Man,...

The comics, maybe. The movies? Not so much.

I thought it was great.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

the MCU has been getting a little too fast-and-loose with its attempts to appeal to meme culture

Oh god is this going to turn into that topic where you claimed Everything Everywhere was "just a meme movie" because you never saw anything more than a single out-of-context scene?

TMOG posted...

Oh god is this going to turn into that topic where you claimed Everything Everywhere was "just a meme movie" because you never saw anything more than a single out-of-context scene?

I've seen more of it since then, and my opinion has only become stronger.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I've seen more of it since then, and my opinion has only become stronger.

"seen more of it" meaning you still haven't watched the movie and instead chose to watch more out-of-context clips, gotcha

Gobstoppers12 posted...

The comics, maybe. The movies? Not so much.

I'm not even going to bother with this level of nonsense.

TMOG posted...

"seen more of it" meaning you still haven't watched the movie and instead chose to watch more out-of-context clips, gotcha

Seen enough of it to strongly support my opinion of it. Not gonna watch the whole thing because "a few drama scenes make it way more than a meme movie even though 75% of the runtime is meme shit"

Come on, man.

TheSavageDragon posted...

I'm not even going to bother with this level of nonsense.

I would say that I like to call it "Gobsense", but I feel like that would imply that it makes sense.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Seen enough of it to strongly support my opinion of it. Not gonna watch the whole thing because "a few drama scenes make it way more than a meme movie even though 75% of the runtime is meme shit"

Come on, man.

So you're still going to insist on telling everybody that you know the movie better than them even though you haven't seen it

Roger that

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Seen enough of it to strongly support my opinion of it. Not gonna watch the whole thing because "a few drama scenes make it way more than a meme movie even though 75% of the runtime is meme shit"

Come on, man.

It's still not great to try to convince people who actually watched it that it's "meme shit" when you haven't. Just saying.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

Seen enough of it to strongly support my opinion of it. Not gonna watch the whole thing because "a few drama scenes make it way more than a meme movie even though 75% of the runtime is meme shit"

Come on, man.

youre gonna get clowned on by anyone whos watched it saying dumb stuff like this, and rightfully so.

Noname12 posted...

Probably the most creative and horrorish movie from the entire MCU. I think people just wanted the typical classic marvel quipy movies

I did want something more like Strange 1. I don't really care for horror myself. And I don't like what they did with Wanda.

Zeeak4444 posted...

youre gonna get clowned on by anyone whos watched it saying dumb stuff like this, and rightfully so.

If they interpreted the movie in a different way from me, that's fine. But I've seen what I've seen and they're not going to gaslight me into thinking something different lol

Gobstoppers12 posted...

If they interpreted the movie in a different way from me, that's fine.

You didn't interpret the movie because you didn't watch the movie

TMOG posted...

You didn't interpret the movie because you didn't watch the movie

I've seen enough to form an impression. I know it's "way deeper than I think" and "is actually about generational trauma or something" but that doesn't change the actual scenes I've witnessed with my own eyes and heard with my own ears.

K181 posted...

It was okay, but they did Scarlet Witch pretty dirty.

100% this

Although that ironically makes it more like the comics

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I've seen enough to form an impression.

So you didn't watch the movie, thus you didn't interpret the movie itself, but rather the scenes you chose to watch without proper context or framing

TMOG posted...

So you didn't watch the movie, thus you didn't interpret the movie itself, but rather the scenes you chose to watch without proper context or framing

No amount of context or framing is going to change how dumb these scenes are.

"Actually it's a metaphor" isn't enough to make a dumb scene not-dumb, sorry to break it to you lol

Gobstoppers12 posted...

No amount of context or framing is going to change how dumb these scenes are.

See you don't know that because you didn't watch the movie

I enjoyed it.. my only issue was I couldn't sit through Wandavision's sitcom episodes long enough to get to the actual meat of the story. Ended up having to research the show to have any understanding of what was going on.

It had some good trademark Raimi moments, but it was still constrained by the obvious studio micromanaging crap.

It's a movie that's good only only a first watch. There are some MCU movies you can continually enjoy on reruns, but MoM is not one of them.

I went to it expecting (and hoping!) for it to be an Evil Dead movie set in the MCU, which is something I feel it was close enough to being. I even sat through Wandavision just for it (I enjoyed it once it actually picked up, but the first couple episodes really dragged). That said the original Dr. Strange is also one of my favorite MCU movies so that also helped.

Overall I enjoyed it a lot when it's at its most Raimi. I think I can agree the problem is that it isn't Raimi enough.

honestly i thought the opposite of most people. what i liked about the first strange movie was that it actually made me care about who strange was, as a character, and his origin. it was interesting and better than i expected. but then the second movie turns into this multiverse hypevan full of cameos and whatnot...

i don't know. i feel like it missed the entire point of the first movie. i don't even remember the cgi in the first movie, so banking on "cgi-fest" being strange's style wasn't it, i think.

TMOG posted...

See you don't know that because you didn't watch the movie

You act like I've never seen a movie before, though. No amount of metaphors or "super deep" context is going to make hotdog fingers better.

Gobstoppers12 posted...

You act like I've never seen a movie before, though. No amount of metaphors or "super deep" context is going to make hotdog fingers better.

Is hot dog fingers your nickname for Dr Strange Multiverse of Madness?

MyMainAccount posted...

Is hot dog fingers your nickname for Dr Strange Multiverse of Madness?

No, it's a reference to a movie that people say is good, but I happen to think is way too silly and 'quirky' to be enjoyable.

Too many dumb moments. Not counting stuff like if he can warp tons of supers at once why couldnt he just warp the monster away, there are other weird issues.

-Why is there a shop that shows your memories for free and why would someone who is trying to hide her past letting everyone see her memories?

-you know what im gonna go back to the first issue. Mostly everything could be solved if Strange just warped everything away.

Zombie Strange looked cool, but it was so dumb the more i think about it.

Why didnt Wanda check to see if big guy was dead? She meticulously plans everything, but didnt check to see if the Master Supremo was actually dead or not.

Why didnt Wanda just ask to be brought to a world where the kids would be happy to be reunited with a mom that maybe died or they never knew? Like, thats not evil at all and would make everyone happy. Instead of trying to kill America instead.

If the new avengers group knew that there was a multiverse and that versions of people were different, why were they so hostile towards an obviously not this universe Strange?

Why did Prof X let his guard down so easily?

Why did Mr Fantastic announce their plan out loud to a maniac who they knew had terrifying psychic powers?

Why didnt the spooky ghosts come after Wanda?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

No, it's a reference to a movie that people say is good, but I happen to think is way too silly and 'quirky' to be enjoyable.

And what movie is that?

Gobstoppers12 posted...

No, it's a reference to a movie that people say is good, but I happen to think is way too silly and 'quirky' to be enjoyable.

You happen to be wrong.

_____Cait posted...

Why didnt Wanda just ask to be brought to a world where the kids would be happy to be reunited with a mom that maybe died or they never knew? Like, thats not evil at all and would make everyone happy. Instead of trying to kill America instead.

Wong suggested something like that. And Wanda's excuse was they could get sick so she'd need the power to find a cure.

I didn't dislike it - enjoyed watching it but hadn't seen Wandavision. When I watched Wandavision after it felt like DSMoM undid a lot of the character growth in Wandavision though some people on CE made some good points about the differences

Sir_Will posted...

Wong suggested something like that. And Wanda's excuse was they could get sick so she'd need the power to find a cure.

Couldn't she just make the disease go away like what she did to the mouth guy

Noname12 posted...

I think people just wanted the typical classic marvel quipy movies

I'm starting to think this too.

People say they are tired of the MCU formula....but then hate the ones that don't follow the formula!

It was okay. I certainly didn't hate it, but for a number of reasons, it simply fell well short of the hype.

• it finally killed the dangling-carrot FOMO that was the X-Men / FF getting sneak-introduced in the MCU (though this was already on life support after the 'Ralph Bohner' incident)
• did Wanda dirty. Again it's up in the air as to whether or not the last episode of WandaVision did the most damage in this regard, so I don't really hold this one against MoM. Still, if we get to the next Avengers movie and you have to explain to someone who zoned out on Phase 4 that Wanda isn't here because she got killed off in Doctor Strange 2, and there reaction is naturally "ugh...really?" your explanation probably won't start off with "no, it was actually really awesome! You see..."
• Dr. Strange just isn't as effective as other characters at carrying a solo movie. I felt this way about the first DS and MoM didn't do much to change this opinion.
• For the most part the horror aspects just didn't feel particularly inspired. Ooh, Wanda is crawling out of a mirror all limb-contortion-y, new and exciting!

I did really like parts of it though, like Zombie Strange.

Ruvan22 posted...

When I watched Wandavision after it felt like DSMoM undid a lot of the character growth in Wandavision

Bingo.

Like the shittiest part of real comic books

When big event series write someone ooc from their solo book to advance the plot

Ruvan22 posted...

When I watched Wandavision after it felt like DSMoM undid a lot of the character growth in Wandavision

Not really, people just confused Wanda's growth in WandaVision as being heroic growth rather than villainous growth.

She never showed any true remorse for her actions in Westview while the Hex was up, and if it wasn't for Agatha's meddling, would have just kept it going until she either ran out of sitcoms to emulate or landed on one she wanted to live the rest of her life in. She wasn't overly concerned with SWORD at the border because she could either destroy them or bring them into her world any time she wanted, and made no secret of that fact.

From episode 1, Wanda was the villain of her own show (both in-universe and out of it), and by the end she had tapped into a power that even the gleefully evil witch described as too powerful and something that would lead to Wanda destroying the entire universe. And when she left Westview, Wanda took the Darkhold with her so she could continue learning powerful and wicked magic, because she still wanted to pursue the same goal she had in Westview but in a more permanent manner.

Wanda never lost her ambition after WandaVision, she never sought forgiveness or repentance, and obtained an absolute power that... well, does what it does. She was already in a state of grief and desperation and the Darkhold was fucking with her mind even more. And she was in an incredibly mentally vulnerable state already -- she was even willing to believe that Ralph Bohner was Pietro despite looking nothing like her brother.

From the moment Wanda was introduced in Age of Ultron, she was a broken person, and Infinity War cost her the only person who stood a chance of fixing her. Without Vision, Wanda was in a downward spiral that she couldn't recover from, and her selfish ambition in trying to get him back even at the expense of innocent people around her made her into one of the MCU's darkest villains.

TMOG posted...

Not really, people just confused Wanda's growth in WandaVision as being heroic growth rather than villainous growth.

She never showed any true remorse for her actions in Westview while the Hex was up, and if it wasn't for Agatha's meddling, would have just kept it going until she either ran out of sitcoms to emulate or landed on one she wanted to live the rest of her life in. She wasn't overly concerned with SWORD at the border because she could either destroy them or bring them into her world any time she wanted, and made no secret of that fact.

From episode 1, Wanda was the villain of her own show (both in-universe and out of it), and by the end she had tapped into a power that even the gleefully evil witch described as too powerful and something that would lead to Wanda destroying the entire universe. And when she left Westview, Wanda took the Darkhold with her so she could continue learning powerful and wicked magic, because she still wanted to pursue the same goal she had in Westview but in a more permanent manner.

Wanda never lost her ambition after WandaVision, she never sought forgiveness or repentance, and obtained an absolute power that... well, does what it does. She was already in a state of grief and desperation and the Darkhold was fucking with her mind even more. And she was in an incredibly mentally vulnerable state already -- she was even willing to believe that Ralph Bohner was Pietro despite looking nothing like her brother.

From the moment Wanda was introduced in Age of Ultron, she was a broken person, and Infinity War cost her the only person who stood a chance of fixing her. Without Vision, Wanda was in a downward spiral that she couldn't recover from, and her selfish ambition in trying to get him back even at the expense of innocent people around her made her into one of the MCU's darkest villains.

Those are good points - similar to what some others on CE had said when I asked in my own thread a few weeks ago.

I don't know if I would have liked MoM more or less if I had seen it afterwards though even with your broader description as it seems to end with the same "villain sees she is hurting the ones she was trying to protect" mechanism.

TMOG posted...

Not really, people just confused Wanda's growth in WandaVision as being heroic growth rather than villainous growth.

She never showed any true remorse for her actions in Westview while the Hex was up, and if it wasn't for Agatha's meddling, would have just kept it going until she either ran out of sitcoms to emulate or landed on one she wanted to live the rest of her life in. She wasn't overly concerned with SWORD at the border because she could either destroy them or bring them into her world any time she wanted, and made no secret of that fact.

From episode 1, Wanda was the villain of her own show (both in-universe and out of it), and by the end she had tapped into a power that even the gleefully evil witch described as too powerful and something that would lead to Wanda destroying the entire universe. And when she left Westview, Wanda took the Darkhold with her so she could continue learning powerful and wicked magic, because she still wanted to pursue the same goal she had in Westview but in a more permanent manner.

Wanda never lost her ambition after WandaVision, she never sought forgiveness or repentance, and obtained an absolute power that... well, does what it does. She was already in a state of grief and desperation and the Darkhold was fucking with her mind even more. And she was in an incredibly mentally vulnerable state already -- she was even willing to believe that Ralph Bohner was Pietro despite looking nothing like her brother.

From the moment Wanda was introduced in Age of Ultron, she was a broken person, and Infinity War cost her the only person who stood a chance of fixing her. Without Vision, Wanda was in a downward spiral that she couldn't recover from, and her selfish ambition in trying to get him back even at the expense of innocent people around her made her into one of the MCU's darkest villains.

Wanda kept changing the sitcom because weird stuff kept happening and part of that was from Agatha.

Agatha's meddling was important but it was important because when control was broken on the people for a time they were able to tell Wanda that it was torture to them. Wanda was very much in the wrong but she had deluded herself into thinking people would be happy in her fantasy. Confronted with the truth she resolved to let them go. She stopped temporarily when it was hurting her family but she ultimately gave them up to free the people.

She took the Darkhold to learn more about herself and this 'Scarlet Witch' thing. And yes, she wanted to advance her powers. Possibly so she could permanently conjure her family again. But it wasn't for malicious purposes. She didn't want to hurt people. The Darkhold then corrupted her.

Her actions in Westfield were wrong. But they were never out of malice. She was hurt and hiding and coping in a terrible way. And running away to the mountains was still running away, but at least it was to a place she wouldn't hurt anybody else.

I don't actually remember much about it now that I think about it, but I do know it felt incredibly rushed at parts and the title was misleading

Still fun for what it was.

It was good not great. The multiverse/cameo stuff was lame but the horror aspects were good.

I enjoyed it , but I did feel it could have been much better. They should have traveled to many universes. We only saw a few, and most of the movie was in one specific universe. It should have been a big journey across the multiverse, for the entire movie

People wanted a generic multiverse story and instead they got a cool superhero slasher film and cried

RuneterranSnap posted...

You happen to be wrong.

Can't be wrong about a subjective opinion, sorry.