Current Events > Was Joffrey really evil or simply spoiled and entitled?

(+) Yeah! (+)

If he was just spoiled and entitled he would have a chance to mature and grow out of his mindset and change his behavior and attitude. I think he was only 12 or 13 in the books. Him being treated as special because he was the next king in line, Cercei's garbage parenting, Robert being neglectful and not being the best role model no doubt influenced his shit behavior.

It's funny because good old Jon Snow of all people acted similar to Joff in his early days. When he first got to the wall he would beat the shit out of the other recruits act like an arrogant ass, and demand respect that he didn't earn and then wonder why the other people didn't bow down to him. Basically Thorn's perception of Jon was right at least initially.

I wonder if Joffrey had the potential to be like Jon if had better role models in his life like Ned, Donal Noyle, Aemon..etc or was he just born to be evil because he is the product of incest.

Both?

Joff was straight up killing people and having people killed, so nah.

Jon recognized his privilege, and grew to learn the Watch were his brothers. plus, he was never a bad dude, he just didn't imagine experiences worse than his because he thought he was pretty low on the totem pole, since he was born out of wedlock.

Evil is a choice that Joffrey simply wasn't given the chance to understand. There's something to be said for his personality as not all the Lannister kids were so outright evil, but if he had good parents he might have had a chance.

Yes.

No, he was a sociopath. Someone in the book (Varys, I think?) mentions that when he was a kid, Joffrey heard that one of the castle cats was pregnant. He slit open its stomach to see the kittens.

Tommen and Myrcella are completely normal, lovely kids. While it could be argued that Cersei's favoritism towards Joffrey meant she was more hands-on with him, I don't know that it's enough to completely disregard Joffrey just being fucked from the start. I think there was just something in him that was curdled and rotten at birth.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/4/3/AABhrNAAEaCr.jpg

He doesn't know what it's like to wait for Winds of Winter to drop, so I'd say he has no moral status

Ricemills posted...

Both?

Both.

How did all the kids end up good looking despite being the product of twincest?

TomClark posted...

Both.

Both is good.

Noumas posted...

How did all the kids end up good looking despite being the product of twincest?

Most incest babies are fine tbqh

Noumas posted...

How did all the kids end up good looking despite being the product of twincest?

I think first generation incest isn't really an issue, it's only when you do it for generations that you come out a little goofy looking.

RuneterranSnap posted...

Evil is a choice that Joffrey simply wasn't given the chance to understand. There's something to be said for his personality as not all the Lannister kids were so outright evil, but if he had good parents he might have had a chance.

Agreed

It's really not surprising that he turned out so rotten when he was not only spoiled but told from birth that he was going to be king and could do whatever the hell he wanted. Robert was not a tyrant but he was a flawed man who did not set a great example for "his" son which perfectly served Cersei and Tywin's ambitions for the boy. In contrast Myracella's "role" was to eventually marry into foreign royalty and Tommen wasn't "supposed" to rule at all, thus their upbringing was less of a priority and likely resulted in more time with governesses than did Joffrey who would have been shadowing his father, grandather, and (to a lesser extent) his uncle/bio-father from a very early age. With Robert's being the paragon of "machismo," Tywin being an archetypical "evil overlord," Jamie being a pompous ass who happened to be one of the best warriors on the continent, and Cersei encouraging all of it (well, not so much Robert but she took care of that lol)....yeah, Joffrey didn't really have much of a chance to be anything except the twisted little monster that he was.

pegusus123456 posted...

I think first generation incest isn't really an issue, it's only when you do it for generations that you come out a little goofy looking.

IIRC Tywin married his cousin.

LeCh0nk posted...

IIRC Tywin married his cousin.

Strrrrrrictly speaking, I don't think cousins are actually genetically close enough to matter.

The rumor I heard is that it's 2% higher than non cousins. It's still a bit of hypocrisy that tywin not only resented tyrion for everything despite being his own fault, but didn't accept cersei and Jaime's weird love when its barely a step above what he did.

I don't think that's a hair worth splitting. The point is his actions were evil and everyone was better off when he died.

Noumas posted...

The rumor I heard is that it's 2% higher than non cousins. It's still a bit of hypocrisy that tywin not only resented tyrion for everything despite being his own fault, but didn't accept cersei and Jaime's weird love when its barely a step above what he did.

That's kinda nonsense though? First cousin marriage is not at all an issue in Westeros whereas sibling incest is considered an abomination. Tywin isn't being a hypocrite, he's being consistent with his society's belief system.

pegusus123456 posted...

That's kinda nonsense though? First cousin marriage is not at all an issue in Westeros whereas sibling incest is considered an abomination. Tywin isn't being a hypocrite, he's being consistent with his society's belief system.

Yeah it's like tywin cares more about family reputation and presentation and how his family is perceived in society than his own children's happiness

Heck he was probably glad when joffrey got killed and tommen being more moldable

Noumas posted...

Yeah it's like tywin cares more about family reputation and presentation and how his family is perceived in society than his own children's happiness

That doesn't make him a hypocrite, it just makes him an asshole.

I'm also going to assume I'm misunderstanding you and that you aren't actually arguing in favor of twin fucking here.

That part is more facetious, my focus is moreso on him blaming tyrion for literally everything wrong that's ever happened.

Also the fact that he's also to blame for the twincest because it's his genes that sought cousin marrying.

Noumas posted...

my focus is moreso on him blaming tyrion for literally everything wrong that's ever happened.

He doesn't do that either, he blames Tyrion for killing his wife. And it's not really fair, but she did die in childbirth, so it's not exactly out of left field.

Noumas posted...

Also the fact that he's also to blame for the twincest because it's his genes that sought cousin marrying.

Ned Stark's parents were also cousins, he wasn't banging Brandon or Lyanna. Cersei and Jamie are just uniquely fucked up.

pegusus123456 posted...

Ned Stark's parents were also cousins, he wasn't banging Brandon or Lyanna. Cersei and Jamie are just uniquely f***ed up.

Ew what for real? Is all of westeros just cousins marrying each other

Noumas posted...

Is all of westeros just cousins marrying each other

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/3/AAGadeAAEanF.jpg

Joffrey was deffo mean for no reason. Or maybe it was because he had a stupid name.

A result of incest from hateful, arrogant, entitled parents. Joff never had a chance.

008Zulu posted...

A result of incest from hateful, arrogant, entitled parents. Joff never had a chance.

Weird that Tommen and Myrcella seemed to have a chance.

pegusus123456 posted...

Weird that Tommen and Myrcella seemed to have a chance.

Joff was the firstborn, maybe all the toxicity went in to him?

I think his character was also meant to be the personification of the theme of incest-bred characters' dispositions being a "coin flip" between decent and terrible/deranged.

Joffrey was a straight up psychopath.

Joffery needed to put away his Marvel Funko Pops and be a man.

pegusus123456 posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/7/3/AAGadeAAEanF.jpg

Loool. Then Maybe the lannisters should be in charge they're the best at channeling targaryen energy.