Current Events > At what point did you realize FFIX was an allegory for trans acceptance?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Part of what makes it my favorite FF is the amount of progressive themes included in that game during a time where it wasn't even on anyone's radar.

Not trying real hard today are you

BuzzKilljoy posted...

Not trying real hard today are you

Excuse me?

...Maybe you could explain a little more?

Jennywentnorth8 posted...

...Maybe you could explain a little more?

Sure.

-Garnet is a deadname
-Dagger cuts their hair to suit more of the male gender
-Dagger spends most of the game being uncomfortable with male advances and discussions surrounding feminity
-During Dagger's transition, they go through a deep depression where reminding them of their previous life causes them to drift away

There's also Quina, who is flat out supposed to be gender ambiguous. Quina comes from a swamp, which is necessary to cross to get to a tunnel. Garnet must travel "through the swamp and tunnel", in order to get to the light on the other side where there is no mist (no ambiguity). Which brings Garnet to the tree of life, which brings the motivation to assume the true identity of Dagger. Quina's marshlands is a metaphor for the confusing and sometimes dark transition period that brings light and life on the other side.

The game also centers around the theme of identity crisis, where Zidane and Kuja suffer from not being able to identify with themselves. Kuja in particular, who may have more obviously been a symbol of transgenderism. Freya as well, who was the only female in her army and never felt like she was a woman but rather a man, which was made more exposed when Freya's BF left her. Sir Fratley does not remember Freya, because Sir Fratley did not know the now transitioned Freya.

Bump

I need to play this game

Maybe I'll notice if I ever get to make a dent in my backlog

Reaching way too hard.

Also, your analogy for Dagger and Quina's swamp doesn't work, as she's not with the party at that time.

When Vivi screamed Thats not my pronoun! at Black Waltz 2, before nuking the fucker.

One of the rare FF that I did not play, but considering the time it was release, I would be really surprised if you were right

KeeperOfShadows posted...

Reaching way too hard.

Also, your analogy for Dagger and Quina's swamp doesn't work, as she's not with the party at that time.

Yes she is. She has to cross the swamp to get to the forgotten continent.

WBC_Injury posted...

Sir Fratley does not remember Freya, because Sir Fratley did not know the now transitioned Freya.

or, you know, dementia/ amnesia
IIRC, he didn't remember anyone

epik_fail1 posted...

One of the rare FF that I did not play, but considering the time it was release, I would be really surprised if you were right

The Matrix was released the same year.

The fun thing about centering your entire worldview around one tiny part of your personality is that you can find an allegory for it in pretty much anything. Samus is a trans allegory. Final fantasy 9 is a trans allegory. Harry Potter is a trans allegory. Ghost in the Shell, etc etc. the list goes on.

Hell, even the wachowskis are on record initially saying that they weren't even aware that they were trans when they wrote The matrix but in retrospect they're happy that people found it allegorical.

WBC_Injury posted...

Yes she is. She has to cross the swamp to get to the forgotten continent.

Ah, right. I was thinking of the first time.

Still hella reaching, lol.

There's certainly a lot in the game that pokes at rigid gender roles prescribed at birth. To me, it's broader than trans acceptance.

Like, every character is trying to deal with what they were "born to be." (Except Amarant maybe? Never paid attention to them). Gender is definitely part of that.

s0nicfan posted...

The fun thing about centering your entire worldview around one tiny part of your personality is that you can find an allegory for it in pretty much anything. Samus is a trans allegory. Final fantasy 9 is a trans allegory. Harry Potter is a trans allegory. Ghost in the Shell, etc etc. the list goes on.

Hell, even the wachowskis are on record initially saying that they weren't even aware that they were trans when they wrote The matrix but in retrospect they're happy that people found it allegorical.

I'm not trans so I don't get the "part of my personality" angle here.

gigageek1500 posted...

(Except Amarant maybe? Never paid attention to them)

Amarant is entirely pointless in the game, he has no purpose to be there, and is in fact the worst character in the game

s0nicfan posted...

The fun thing about centering your entire worldview around one tiny part of your personality is that you can find an allegory for it in pretty much anything. Samus is a trans allegory. Final fantasy 9 is a trans allegory. Harry Potter is a trans allegory. Ghost in the Shell, etc etc. the list goes on.

Hell, even the wachowskis are on record initially saying that they weren't even aware that they were trans when they wrote The matrix but in retrospect they're happy that people found it allegorical.

There are times where it's true though. Don't tell me Fire Emblem path of radiance's laguz struggles were not an allegory for real life racism even though the laguz are not real

s0nicfan posted...

The fun thing about centering your entire worldview around one tiny part of your personality is that you can find an allegory for it in pretty much anything.

One's gender is actually a fairly significant part of their personality.

Scary movie 4 is also a trans allegory

https://youtu.be/mhfdezzjwyI

ROBANN_88 posted...

Amarant is entirely pointless in the game, he has no purpose to be there, and is in fact the worst character in the game

Amarant was supposed to have a bigger plot but they couldn't figure it out in time. He basically was "too cool to cut".

It's why he's on the cover too. They really were banking hard on him being a breakout character but all they had was a character design.

Solo_Wing posted...

Scary movie 4 is also a trans allegory

https://youtu.be/mhfdezzjwyI

Wat

gigageek1500 posted...

There's certainly a lot in the game that pokes at rigid gender roles prescribed at birth. To me, it's broader than trans acceptance.

Like, every character is trying to deal with what they were "born to be." (Except Amarant maybe? Never paid attention to them). Gender is definitely part of that.

Fighting fate/destiny/etc. most likely. It's one of the most common jrpg themes and definitely one present in FFIX.

I can even see how it could be related to gender identity, though I highly doubt that's what Square was actually going for.

WBC_Injury posted...

I'm not trans so I don't get the "part of my personality" angle here.

Transformation narratives can be allegorical to a huge number of things. What looks like a trans allegory to 1 person might be an allegory for self betterment to another, or an allegory for weight loss, or getting over a bad relationship, etc, etc. Cutting your hair in japanese culture signifies a restart or a reset in your life and has nothing to do with your gender. The extent to which you view transformation narratives as allegorical for transitioning is more or less based on the extent to which you're looking for trans allegories in media where the author hasn't explicitly states it's a trans allegory.

alot of what you said can also be a standard Coming of Age story, which at the time of creation is much more common

WBC_Injury posted...

Part of what makes it my favorite FF is the amount of progressive themes included in that game during a time where it wasn't even on anyone's radar.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/7/1/AAb05zAAEXEf.jpg

s0nicfan posted...

Transformation narratives can be allegorical to a huge number of things. What looks like a trans allegory to 1 person might be an allegory for self betterment to another, or an allegory for weight loss, or getting over a bad relationship, etc, etc. Cutting your hair in japanese culture signifies a restart or a reset in your life and has nothing to do with your gender. The extent to which you view transformation narratives as allegorical for transitioning is more or less based on the extent to which you're looking for trans allegories in media where the author hasn't explicitly states it's a trans allegory.

This is a lot of words for an attempt to try to dismiss the possibility that this was in fact a trans allegory.

Reminds me of how much effort people go into trying to prove The Matrix wasn't. Like, where is this effort for other movies and such dealing with complex themes?

WBC_Injury posted...

This is a lot of words for an attempt to try to dismiss the possibility that this was in fact a trans allegory.

Reminds me of how much effort people go into trying to prove The Matrix wasn't. Like, where is this effort for other movies and such dealing with complex themes?

You missing the point of my post is a trans allegory.

WBC_Injury posted...

Wat

Scary movie 4 is also a trans allegory

Solo_Wing posted...

Scary movie 4 is also a trans allegory

Is this an attempt at a OneJoke

Solo_Wing posted...

Scary movie 4 is also a trans allegory

https://youtu.be/mhfdezzjwyI

the actor in scary movie 3 and 4 is named simon rex
he was also in a sitcom called what i like about you for a single season
he was also an MTV veejay at one time IIRC

anyway fun fact when he was 19 he made like 3 gay porn videos
these were him just by himself but they were aimed at a gay audience
he said if he knew he was gonna be semi famous one day he would never have done those videos

s0nicfan posted...

Ghost in the Shell, etc etc. the list goes on.

GitS addresses gender/sex issues several times. A female brain swapping into a male body to have sex is a good conversation.

I remember my first beer

WBC_Injury posted...

Amarant was supposed to have a bigger plot but they couldn't figure it out in time. He basically was "too cool to cut".

It's why he's on the cover too. They really were banking hard on him being a breakout character but all they had was a character design.

The funniest thing is Lani (his female companion) had more characterization and would have made a more interesting party member

Beginning of act 2

s0nicfan posted...

The fun thing about centering your entire worldview around one tiny part of your personality is that you can find an allegory for it in pretty much anything. Samus is a trans allegory. Final fantasy 9 is a trans allegory. Harry Potter is a trans allegory. Ghost in the Shell, etc etc. the list goes on.

Hell, even the wachowskis are on record initially saying that they weren't even aware that they were trans when they wrote The matrix but in retrospect they're happy that people found it allegorical.

This tbh. I wrote a post very similar to OP's a few years ago but it was about Garnet being a furry.

WBC_Injury posted...

This is a lot of words for an attempt to try to dismiss the possibility that this was in fact a trans allegory.

You used more words to invent the possibility. I wonder what deeper context that proves.

NecroFoul99 posted...

You used more words to invent the possibility. I wonder what deeper context that proves.

I swear no one tries this hard to disprove metaphors that aren't about progressive themes.

WBC_Injury posted...

I swear no one tries this hard to disprove metaphors that aren't about progressive themes.

I can assure you my Garnet Furry theory was met with a lot of pushback.

okay, i guess it's just morbid curiosity, but i kinda wanna hear the Garnet Furry theory now
the tl:dr version, if you please

WBC_Injury posted...

I swear no one tries this hard to disprove metaphors that aren't about progressive themes.

Im not trying hard at anything. It was just an observation at the irony.