Current Events > This whole hogwarts legacy thing feels like babbies first boycott

(+) Yeah! (+)

Antifar posted...

Who determines what is minor, exactly?

When the enemy tanks are on shore, maybe it's too late to prevent them from going to war.

SHRlKE posted...

I dont think life is fine for most people. I dont mean that as a slight against LGBTQ people. LGBTQ people definitely have a much harder time than most but its not fair to suggest anyones elses issues arent there.

no one suggested that, yet that is what you chose to hear

From what I've seen, boycotts work on smaller scales. Like when I used to live in the rural town and a mega mart (not Walmart, but something like that) moved in and built their store rather quickly. Almost all the middle and lower class were against the Megamart being there. So most of the community, especially from the church, all came together to protest and boycott the megamart. In months they were forced to close down because a lot of people wouldn't buy from them.

The issue with this game was the writing was on the wall that this boycott would fail to hurt the game financially because it already sold gangbusters from just pre-orders alone and broke the charts on all 3 systems (PC, Xbox, PS).

With that said, if the point of the boycott was to make people aware of JK Rowling's transphobia, then I can see that as a win. If they were looking for victories in any other avenue, it failed spectacularly.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Saudi Arabia is an investor. Noted human rights blackhole Saudi Arabia.

Intro2Logic posted...

Would you like them to? Or are you just cynically wielding this as a cudgel against those calling for a boycott of Rowling?

Tbh you're sounding like someone talking black on black crime in the face of the BLM movement. "Why is nobody protesting the murders in Chicago?"

More like if we were only protesting one police killing when there are 73. People aren't protesting all transphobes and bigots, so they shouldn't be using the protest to declare moral superiority or say who's an ally. Because doesn't that logic also make them an enemy to anyone who protests something they don't? And I know this isn't what every boycotter is doing.

When you really think about it, the video game industry and the entire entertainment industry is disgusting and full of horrible people who we give money to willingly.

hockeybub89 posted...

More like if we were only protesting one police killing when there are 73.

Do you think every police killing has provoked a protest?

TheGoldenEel posted...

the laws JK Rowling is spending her Harry-Potter money

You can't make accusations like that without evidence. I assume you have some?

People make compromises everyday. Some are tougher than others for folks. Personally, I don't find it very difficult to not buy a game that directly funds someone who openly hates on trans people. I think about how if the things she were saying were targeted at different groups of people, or even a group I was part of, Id instantly be like "fuck you and fuck your game". People would be far more willing to leave that game behind if she was saying things about a less marginalized group.

I also don't think that just because there other unethical consumptions to be made in this society that it just suddenly absolves you to do whatever. At least buy this shit used or something

https://imgur.com/a/udfdpR3

I reiterate that a boycott is not a monk's vow of poverty. It's not self-denial in the service of bettering one's moral standing. The Birmingham bus boycotters did not find enlightenment by walking to work. It's a protest tool used to deny money to its targets.

Blue_Inigo posted...

I also don't think that just because there other unethical consumptions to be made in this society that it just suddenly absolves you to do whatever. At least buy this s*** used or something

I am sure somebody sold their copy of the PS5 game after a day to Gamestop, they are still around or obvs the internet. I really liked Uncharted but I remember waiting a month to play the third one and I got it used for 30. What does Hogwarts used go for on Gamestop now 55? Not much a discount but eh you aren't directly supporting the franchise.

Intro2Logic posted...

I reiterate that a boycott is not a monk's vow of poverty. It's not self-denial in the service of bettering one's moral standing. It's a protest tool used to deny money to its targets.

And I reiterate that you clearly haven't been paying attention if you haven't seen anyone turning it into a statement on one's character. There's still no point in only targeting one bigot when anyone who actually pays attention to games knows there's many. How the hell long is it supposed to take for us to hurt them all significantly if we boycott one at a time?

Antifar posted...

Do you think every police killing has provoked a protest?

Unfortunately no, they haven't. Also, police killings are a bigger threat than one transphobe getting royalties from a video game when transphobic nations also fund video games and our transphobic fascists in office could start a nationwide genocide in less than 24 months.

hockeybub89 posted...

But why isn't it already happening? Why isn't anyone getting attacked for being excited for the new Zelda? Why is the tactic inconsistent?

You've sort of narrowly focused the purpose of boycotts to just be financial in nature and are then accusing people of being hypocrites for not fitting that standard.

It's not inconsistent to boycott a product based on an IP by a person who is strongly transphobic and not turn around and boycott a product just because of who has bought shares of the company that produced it.

BDS gets more "leverage" out of getting the University of X to divest from pro-Israel countries than they do getting individuals to reduce their consumption by the same amount because entities have more social power than individuals.

"We cannot solve any problems until we solve all of the problems" is a line of reasoning that I believe to have some holes in it. For instance:

hockeybub89 posted...

our transphobic fascists in office could start a nationwide genocide in less than 24 months.

This genocide seems like a bigger threat than police killings, should BLM protesters have been focused on that instead? Instead of lending your solidarity to the marginalized people who are asking for it, you are trying to rhetorically stretch theirs so thin as to be useless.

You want to think of yourself as an ally, provided you can choose what your allies' priorities are. The idea that they might ask for your help with something that is not your priority is too much allyship for you to bear.

The hypocrite argument only works if said person is trying to guilt, shame, or harass the person for not doing what they want them to do. Otherwise, we simply just pick and choose our battles. If you don't boycott the companies that Saudi Arabia has shares in, it doesn't necessarily mean you don't care about the human rights issues there, it just simply means their suffering isn't on your priority list. We all have our own morals and principals we follow, no need to drag others into it.

Intro2Logic posted...

You want to think of yourself as an ally, provided you can choose what your allies' priorities are. The idea that they might ask for your help with something that is not your priority is too much allyship for you to bear.

If you were a true ally, you would give me your car.

VampireCoyote posted...

no one suggested that, yet that is what you chose to hear

i misread it lol apologies

COVxy posted...

If you were a true ally, you would give me your car.

Trust me: I have no problem not being your ally. I do not believe that we are on the same side.

Intro2Logic posted...

Trust me: I have no problem not being your ally. I do not believe that we are on the same side.

Lol, if you say so.

I think "if you were a true ally, you would do [arbitrary action x that became a popular line drawn in the sand]" is just bullshit terminally online bullying.

Nobody in the LGBT+ community i've interacted with irl are so arbitrarily rigid with bespoke laws. In fact, the philosophy tends to be the exact opposite.

COVxy posted...

If you were a true ally, you would give me your car.

Trans people have requested that people not buy a video game that they had spent their entire lives until last week not playing. Likening this to a request to be given a car... Frankly, you can do better. I expect better thought from your posts.

Ive noticed the mods are being lenient on those critcising or making fun of the boycott.

Bass_X0 posted...

Ive noticed the mods are being lenient on those critcising or making fun of the boycott.

Unless they're actively flaming other posters, openly trolling, or calling entire groups of people slurs, why would the mods do anything to someone criticizing or making fun of a boycott?

Intro2Logic posted...

You want to think of yourself as an ally, provided you can choose what your allies' priorities are. The idea that they might ask for your help with something that is not your priority is too much allyship for you to bear.

This is what I'm talking about shaming and guilting others. You're giving off the "houlier than thou" attitude that almost everyone dislikes from Religious folks. If you're going to throw the "trans ally card" then yes the hypocritical argument of ethical consumptions can absolutely be used against you.

Also, just because a marginalized minority tells us to do something doesn't mean we have to do it, especially when said thing they tell us to do is something we disagree with. It should be up for discussion. What about anyone else who is Trans that is planning on buying the game? Do they get a voice as well? Do they get to tell people what they can or can't do?

I mean there's also a discussion on who suffers the most if the boycott is sucessful. Is a billionaire, who had no hands on the game, really going to suffer if the game was financially a failure? Or is it the people who made the game going to suffer the worst of it? You can make the argument that the execs are going to be okay, but you can't make that argument for the developers especially if a studio is forced to close because said game was a failure at launch.

Anyways, alot of us saw the writing on the wall that the boycott was going to be a massive failure with the pre-orders breaking sales charts. The only other silver lining would be if the game was released in a buggy/glitchy state that people would be forced to ask for refunds. Clearly that didn't happen. So what can you do that since we live in a Capitalist society that is driven by money? I've seen a lot of charity streams on twitch where many of the proceeds people get from subs and donations are going to pro-trans organizations like the Trevor Project, which I think is possibly the best solution for the predicament we have now.

The only win I see from this boycott is the fact that JK Rowling's Transphobic behavior is more out in the open now. I've had co-workers who had no idea that JK Rowling was transphobic until this controversy. Whether they agree or disagree with her is another story, but it's getting more exposure.

Prestoff posted...

I mean there's also a discussion on who suffers the most if the boycott is sucessful. Is a billionaire, who had no hands on the game, really going to suffer if the game was financially a failure? Or is it the people who made the game going to suffer the worst of it? You can make the argument that the execs are going to be okay, but you can't make that argument for the developers especially if a studio is forced to close because said game was a failure at launch.

This is an argument for buying every game ever made, not one specific one.

Antifar posted...

Trans people have requested that people not buy a video game that they had spent their entire lives until last week not playing. Likening this to a request to be given a car... Frankly, you can do better. I expect better thought from your posts.

Not all trans people are the same. Trans people, like anyone, each have their own politics and views on life. Stop treating them like they all believe the same thing because that does your cause more bad than good imo.

It would be fairer to suggest some trans people have asked people to boycott Hogwarts. They dont necessarily speak for the entire community and there are plenty of trans people who have come out stating they have no issues with the game.

Antifar posted...

This is an argument for buying every game ever made, not one specific one.

My argument was being made for video games where the IP holder has no association with the development of said games. I wouldn't be using this argument if she had a bigger creative role in the development of the game.

TBF I heard she was transphobic long before this game came out, I don't know all the details but that's too bad especially if she said some really hurtful and hateful things. It was a very popular book series and movie series. I tend to sometimes be forcibly ignorant, but I knew that much. It's just I wasn't going to get the game anyway but it seems cool/good . If someone got into the world and wants to try and separate themselves from all the controversy.

Kamil posted...

TBF I heard she was transphobic long before this game came out, I don't know all the details but that's too bad especially if she said some really hurtful and hateful things. It was a very popular book series and movie series. I tend to sometimes be forcibly ignorant, but I knew that much. It's just I wasn't going to get the game anyway but it seems cool/good . If someone got into the world and wants to try and separate themselves from all the controversy.

If you're curious and have the time to spare I highly recommend ContraPoints video on the whole JK situation. She does a great job of breaking down what happened and why its caused so much outrage.

To me the ethics get real murky when you have all these people that champion tolerance and understanding.

Yet are so frothing at the mouth vile and toxic to anyone who doesnt step in line to their inane demands. And for what? A video game?

You can rid yourselves of the superiority complexes, youve shown your hands. Anyone who tries to push this agenda isnt doing it for good reasons, they live on the feeling of controlling others.

SwayM posted...

To me the ethics get real murky when you have all these people that champion tolerance and understanding.

Yet are so frothing at the mouth vile and toxic to anyone who doesnt step in line to their inane demands. And for what? A video game?

You can rid yourselves of the superiority complexes, youve shown your hands. Anyone who tries to push this agenda isnt doing it for good reasons, they live on the feeling of controlling others.

"hey, maybe don't give money to someone funding anti-trans campaigns"
"YOU'RE LITERALLY CONTROLLING ME AAAAAAA"

must be exhausting to live under the weight of your persecution complex.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


The main argument Ive seen for boycotting is to stop JKR getting any money from the game.

You can argue a shareholder is in the same position.

It just all felt rather arbitrary and there was never a compelling case made for why this needs to be my line in the sand and the not dozens of other games I purchase from publishers with problematic connections.

Doom_Art posted...

It just all felt rather arbitrary and there was never a compelling case made for why this needs to be my line in the sand and the not dozens of other games I purchase from publishers with problematic connections.

If there's something that represents the LGBT+ community, it's arbitrary laws set by society that one must follow, lest they be ostracized! Oh, wait...

I feel like it's more a case of gen z not caring about HP the way millennials do and having more trans individuals in the generation, plus everyone being online all the time. That's not saying 30+ year olds aren't boycotting it, but this entire "buying HPL makes you support transphobia" thing is basically non-existent in the real world and pretty much only happening in the reddit/twitter bubble and other gaming websites.
In the real world you're not in an echo chamber where you can call people bigots for wanting to play a game and try to ruin their enjoyment by throwing out spoilers haphazardly.

I have eaten and filled my belly, so I am no longer hangry/exhausted and have collected my thoughts after waiting like an hour to post this.

I think this 'boycott' is slacktivism at its finest and may have been hijacked by disingenuous individuals seeking to further divide the communities, with the lines being drawn deeper and deeper as time went on. You can look anywhere, and you'll see people calling the game a trans killing sim, neo-nazi paradise, etc.. What good does that do? Alienate people who bought the game who may otherwise be unaware of what JK Rowling said or have no interest in following the Twitter life of someone who wrote a children's book they read 20 years ago? With the shit being flung, it was only natural that shit gets flung back. How many people have we lost here over a silly little video game?

As to my next point, why this game specifically? Why not one of JK Rowlings other revenue streams that give her far more money? I don't see people boycotting WB or standing outside Universal Studios since she makes far more money there. What about the previously mentioned in this topics illicit dealings between Saudi Arabia and several gaming companies? What about NBCUniversal? Anywhere that sells Harry Potter products? Is it because it's easy to just go on a forum and say, Harry Potter game bad, like if you agree? LEGO is still selling Harry Potter toys too.

Awareness is being raised, but also critically, support is not being raised.

As for the other side, responding with contempt, slurs, and otherwise is extremely disgusting, and the fight for equal rights well mirrors my own ethnicities fight, so it's especially sad to think if the 50s/60s went another way I would be right there with the disenfranchised trans people. It's okay to be annoyed when insulted. It's not okay to dismiss someones very real struggles. I'd say more about that but theres not really much more to add lol

oh and somewhat ironically, a lot of this protesting is taking place on Twitter... a website owned by a billionaire transphobe. Even if you don't "pay for twitter" Elon still uses the numbers and activity you bring to the website, to get more money from advertisers and shareholders.

SHRlKE posted...

i misread it lol apologies

no worries

Akagami_Shanks posted...

What good does that do? Alienate people who bought the game who may otherwise be unaware of what JK Rowling said or have no interest in following the Twitter life of someone who wrote a children's book they read 20 years ago?

I mean you're giving part of how it's "doing good" right there: it makes people who are otherwise unaware of the bad actions of someone they nominally like have to confront that.

Akagami_Shanks posted...

As to my next point, why this game specifically? Why not one of JK Rowlings other revenue streams that give her far more money? I don't see people boycotting WB or standing outside Universal Studios since she makes far more money there. What about the previously mentioned in this topics illicit dealings between Saudi Arabia and several gaming companies? What about NBCUniversal? Anywhere that sells Harry Potter products? Is it because it's easy to just go on a forum and say, Harry Potter game bad, like if you agree? LEGO is still selling Harry Potter toys too.

"Why are people talking about a boycott of a game that was just released?" Because it was just released, so this is the point in time where a boycott is most noticeable/effective. If you think the Hogwarts Legacy boycott was ineffective, imagine how noticeable/effective boycotting a theme park over a decade old would have been. Also it shouldn't be surprising that on a video game forum filled with people who consume streaming content that you're going to see more calls for the boycott of a new release than children's lego sets.

Akagami_Shanks posted...

oh and somewhat ironically, a lot of this protesting is taking place on Twitter... a website owned by a billionaire transphobe. Even if you don't "pay for twitter" Elon still uses the numbers and activity you bring to the website, to get more money from advertisers and shareholders.

Tbh, I think every Twitter user is costing Elon more money than they are making him at this point. And this point has been refuted numerous times already in this topic.

I'm not even boycotting the game (I wouldn't have bought it in the first place)! And I think that it's perfectly reasonable for people to say "I don't think this is actually causing harm so I'm going to still buy the game"! People are just being overly defensive about strangers on the internet accusing them of transphobia.

Intro2Logic posted...

"We cannot solve any problems until we solve all of the problems" is a line of reasoning that I believe to have some holes in it. For instance:

This genocide seems like a bigger threat than police killings, should BLM protesters have been focused on that instead? Instead of lending your solidarity to the marginalized people who are asking for it, you are trying to rhetorically stretch theirs so thin as to be useless.

See, I don't like being told I don't support my own kind because I won't participate in every boycott, even while screaming for us to do more. That is absolutely making it about morals. "You aren't right for us if your compromises are not the same compromises as ours." Not doing A doesn't mean you aren't doing B, C, D, E, etc. There are certainly some things I personally boycott because of my beliefs, but I am also inconsistent, but I don't think someone fails at solidarity if they claim to share my beliefs, but do not share the same boycotts. It's complex.

I'm not saying everyone should only rally for LGBTQ causes. I'm saying when there are multiple threats and things are looking pretty grim on this specific front, maybe our activism on that front should think bigger than kicking LGBTQ people out of the club for buying a video game, as if people are that simple.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

There has to be a way to kick evil bastards out of partial ownership of companies. It absolutely disgusts me that we are forced to deal with them or China being involved in our video games. It's like if the RNC started doing this shit.

How are we still arguing about this? Everyone has said their piece and drew their lines already

Can't wait till it's over since it's such a bore. Now if people were trying to stop Fantastic Beasts I'd be more interested since that series is a mistake.

COVxy posted...

Lol, if you say so.

I think "if you were a true ally, you would do [arbitrary action x that became a popular line drawn in the sand]" is just bullshit terminally online bullying.

Nobody in the LGBT+ community i've interacted with irl are so arbitrarily rigid with bespoke laws. In fact, the philosophy tends to be the exact opposite.

I live almost exclusively IRL and online in what would be considered "woke" circles and I haven't heard anything of the boycotts outside of CE and Twitter. Entire queer Discords are excited for the game.

Do those opinions not matter? Are we all false allies? Does nothing else we can do make up for it?

hockeybub89 posted...

I live almost exclusively IRL and online in what would be considered "woke" circles and I haven't heard anything of the boycotts outside of CE and Twitter. Entire queer Discords are excited for the game.

Do those opinions not matter? Are we all false allies? Does nothing else we can do make up for it?

Stop giving a fuck what other people think about it. You're not going to change their minds

MalachiteXWater posted...

Can't wait till it's over since it's such a bore. Now if people were trying to stop Fantastic Beasts I'd be more interested since that series is a mistake.

Honestly, I want Rowling to be ruined. Maybe the WW can be wrestled away from her then. But my shit list is bigger than I can feasibly boycott without abandoning new entertainment as a concept.

hockeybub89 posted...

Honestly, I want Rowling to be ruined. Maybe the WW can be wrestled away from her then. But my shit list is bigger than I can feasibly boycott without abandoning new entertainment as a concept.

I understand the sentiment I wouldn't mind seeing her go. Theirs always the indie route but even those guys have some crazies and deplorables. I guess just enjoy and support stuff that doesn't make you feel like trash or creators who aren't actively harmful.

Smackems posted...

Stop giving a fuck what other people think about it. You're not going to change their minds

All I ever do is give a fuck what other people think. I'm not you. I'm not CyricZ. I'm also not the disingenuous trolls who say crap just for giggles. I'm no one else. It's not healthy or right, but I've been absorbing everything people say like a sponge since I was a small child. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will completely destroy me.

hockeybub89 posted...

All I ever do is give a fuck what other people think. I'm not you. I'm not CyricZ. I'm also not the disingenuous trolls who say crap just for giggles. I'm no one else. It's not healthy or right, but I've been absorbing everything people say like a sponge since I was a small child. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will completely destroy me.

Find a way to change that

It doesn't have to be that way for you forever