Current Events > It makes no sense to me that the Empire loses in Star Wars.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Empire or First Order or whatever. How is it possible for them to lose?

SW movies are just black vs white and the hero will always prevail no matter what.

acting like empires in the real world have never become unstable and collapsed

They devote a lot of resources to the Death Star which the Resistance manages to blow up. Then they try to build a second one and invite the guy that blew up the first one to meet with their head of state and chief enforcer. So when the Resistance blows up a second one, kills the Emperor, and kills Vader, the Empire is thrown into disarray.

I don't know if any of the EU stuff goes into it, but I imagine fucking the Empire up that badly invites more rebellions which loosens their grasp even further and it just cascades a bit from there. Mandalorian does show that there are pockets of Empire still in control of certain planets and making plans to retake their territory.

pegusus123456 posted...

I don't know if any of the EU stuff goes into it, but I imagine fucking the Empire up that badly invites more rebellions which loosens their grasp even further and it just cascades a bit from there.

Both timelines had similarities in that Palpatine and most of the higher echelons of the Imperial command being present either on the Death Star or around Endor fucks things up badly.

They get taken out, there's no real line of succession (partially because Palpatine didn't have one cuz "immortal" and partially because anyone with a decent claim is dead or captured) and suddenly every Admiral, Captain, or Planetary Governor fancies themselves as the true heir to the Empire so they all fight each other. Makes it much easier for the Rebels/New Republic to pick them off.

How does a ragtag, volunteer army in need of a shower
Somehow defeat a universal super power?

The real thing that is dumb is the rebels still being rebels in episode 7 8 and 9

The Republic should have been totally in power by then. And have the old empire loyalists be the new rebels, a reversal of positions,

The sequels still portray the Republic people as rebels, as if the First Order owns the galaxy. It makes no sense. Really the First Order were the rebels but the movies don't act like it

Too blinded by the need to control and moderate everything else out there in thr galaxies far far away

The Empire didn't lose in the original movie, the rebels were just able to destroy the planet-killing space station.

Why's that TC?

I read Lost Stars recently and they described it as crippling because millions were on the Death Star when it blew, on top of thousands of TIEs among many various fighters. Many of the fleets top pilots found themselves stationed on the Death Star also. Some that didnt die deserted, or joined the rebellion after witnessing what happened to Alderaan

Yeah the destruction of Alderaan and then the loss of the Death Star was a big one-two punch for the Empire that was basically the beginning of the end. Sure they still had plenty of resources, but galactic momentum turned against them.

Zikten posted...

The real thing that is dumb is the rebels still being rebels in episode 7 8 and 9

The Republic should have been totally in power by then. And have the old empire loyalists be the new rebels, a reversal of positions,

The sequels still portray the Republic people as rebels, as if the First Order owns the galaxy. It makes no sense. Really the First Order were the rebels but the movies don't act like it

That is atleast partially due to ep 7 rethreading ep 4.

In the Old Legends canon, there was a new republic established, it had its issues, warred with the empirial fragments, eventually allying with eachother against a much bigger threat.

Though i dont know as much as id like... and i kinda wish the Sequel Trilogy had adapted legends content instead.

SuperVegitoFAN posted...

That is atleast partially due to ep 7 rethreading ep 4.

In the Old Legends canon, there was a new republic established, it had its issues, warred with the empirial fragments, eventually allying with eachother against a much bigger threat.

Though i dont know as much as id like... and i kinda wish the Sequel Trilogy had adapted legends content instead.

In my teens, I read a handful of those books. One of them was about the son and daughter of Han and Leia at Jedi school. I know they had a younger brother later but I think was before that

I hated that the Solo kids got turned from 3 to just 1. I know some of the drama that happens later with the 3 kids. They erased a lot of cool stuff when they deleted those kids

Cut footage from Episode 7 talks about the New Republic didn't really view TFO as a legit threat. Would have been handy to know

Zikten posted...

In my teens, I read a handful of those books. One of them was about the son and daughter of Han and Leia at Jedi school.

That was a whole saga, i read some of them as well.. well okay what my library had available to me.

Legends cannon coulda been the next MCU, or some shit... feels like that would have been better than what we actually got.

Let's be real Legends was largely crap. Lotta rose colored glasses.

Spoilers in topic title

CyricZ posted...

Let's be real Legends was largely crap. Lotta rose colored glasses.

There was good stuff. The conflict of the 3 Solo children would be cool in a trilogy of films

It would have made a better story than what we got

Disney didn't need to use the entire EU. They could have cherry picked the best parts. I still do not understand just throwing away the whole thing.

Zikten posted...

There was good stuff. The conflict of the 3 Solo children would be cool in a trilogy of films

It would have made a better story than what we got

They'd have found a way to screw it up.

The ST was approached in a flawed manner, designed around speed of output and nostalgia. Changing the focus to existing Legends books wouldn't have saved it.

Disney didn't need to use the entire EU. They could have cherry picked the best parts. I still do not understand just throwing away the whole thing.

They did. That's why we have Thrawn.

Zikten posted...

They could have cherry picked the best parts.

I mean that's kinda what they're doing rn

Well, think of the original movies as a metaphor for the Vietnam War, with the Empire being the US.

Doom_Art posted...

I mean that's kinda what they're doing rn

If they cherry picked the best parts, they would have not deleted Jaina Solo from existence

If Thrawn got to work with Vader and Palpatine more consistently, the Empire would've won. The only reason the Rebels win is because he either shows up too late to the party and gets fragged by his own henchman like in the old books, or shows up years too early and gets conveniently taken off the board in the new canon.

It's like, imagine if Hitler actually listened to all of Rommel's advice, and Rommel lived to see the end of the war, imagine how much harder the Allied victory would've been.

One of the reasons why I loved the new Dune movie was due to the fact that the bad guys are actually kind of clever and don't do stupid s*** like in SW and get blown up all the time

Zikten posted...

they would have not deleted Jaina Solo from existence

Jaina Solo is a fictional character who never existed to begin with lol

CyricZ posted...

Let's be real Legends was largely crap. Lotta rose colored glasses.

What we got now is crap, along with political colored glasses.

what i know of the fate of the Solo kids is i think that

1 brother kills the other, and then becomes a Sith Lord. Then later Jaina faces him a dramatic lightsaber duel, between brother and sister

Fony posted...

political colored glasses

Elaborate.

Doom_Art posted...

Jaina Solo is a fictional character who never existed to begin with lol

Same goes with Thrawn. Until Disney accepted him

Zikten posted...

what i know of the fate of the Solo kids is i think that

1 brother kills the other, and then becomes a Sith Lord. Then later Jaina faces him a dramatic lightsaber duel, between brother and sister

Incorrect. Anakin Solo dies in combat against the Yuuzhan Vong. Jacen beats the Vong by becoming closer to the Unifying Force than anyone and then he turns dark because he wants to save people by controlling them. Kills Mara Jade and becomes a new Sith, then Jaina kills him because she's the only one left.

Zikten posted...

Same goes with Thrawn. Until Disney accepted him

Thrawn still doesn't exist.

Zikten posted...

The real thing that is dumb is the rebels still being rebels in episode 7 8 and 9

The Republic should have been totally in power by then. And have the old empire loyalists be the new rebels, a reversal of positions,

The sequels still portray the Republic people as rebels, as if the First Order owns the galaxy. It makes no sense. Really the First Order were the rebels but the movies don't act like it

I got the impression that the Republic and the First Order were like the US and Soviets in the Cold War.
Technically two super powers at peace, but not really.

And the ones we follow in the movies are "Rebels" cause the Republic isn't willing to risk the peace by essentially backing a splinter group

CyricZ posted...

Thrawn still doesn't exist.

Ok. I haven't even ever experienced the Thrawn story but I thought I heard he got moved to Canon. Maybe I misunderstood. I thought he shows up in Clone Wars or something

Thrawn was in the Star Wars Rebels animated show.
I assume that's Canon, right?

ROBANN_88 posted...

Thrawn was in the Star Wars Rebels animated show.
I assume that's Canon, right?

Yes. Everything Disney makes since 2014 is canon. I do know that much. I remember they announced there is no EU anymore. Everything is canon now. All comics, video games and cartoons and books made after the Disney purchase

I don't think the point I'm making is coming across.

They're all fictional characters. None are better or worse for being in the current Canon.

If you like Jaina Solo, great, but her story is over.

CyricZ posted...

I don't think the point I'm making is coming across.

They're all fictional characters. None are better or worse for being in the current Canon.

If you like Jaina Solo, great, but her story is over.

It shouldn't be over is my point. She would have been great in movies. Maybe we could have gotten a Jaina video game.

CyricZ posted...

I don't think the point I'm making is coming across.

You're right, i have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say

Trust CE to simp for The Empire.

All the troops that couldn't hit shit were a major problem.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

But what if we want to enjoy something that got deleted? What I am saying is that I really longed to see Jaina in a movie someday. And what we got was not as good. You are saying "just have fun and enjoy that a cool character got erasee and never put in the movies"

I wanted to see her in a movie for years and when they first announced Episode 7 I hoped it woukd use the 3 Solo kids. I was sad when I learned thr real plot

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Oh, then i interpreted that the completely wrong way.
Thank god i asked first before making a fool of myself

PrideOfLion posted...

Basically that people get too worked up about what is canon or not instead of just enjoying things

The new trilogy sucked though.

nothing in star wars is about making sense

Lost Stars and Bloodlines are probably the two best books for looking at the fall of the Empire and the seeds for the First Order. You'd have thought it would have been the Aftermath trilogy, but those books are ass that don't even tell you very much.

I mean if they used the resources and materials that buuilt the death star into a fleet of space ships they would dominate for centuries and centures and live out their immortal fantasies, there's no logical reasoning to built a death star lmao

An authoritarian regime without a clear order of succession in place that loses the two people who ruled it is obviously going to collapse into infighting at a minimum.