Current Events > Fed wants 10%+ unemployment. Have you been laid off yet?

(+) Yeah! (+)

So to combat inflation you either gotta suck up egregious record breaking corporate profit or bleed the poor.

So poor losing jobs is the choice.

If they want any percentage of unemployment other than 0%, they need to provide a UBI which will provide a livable wage which can provide the following:

• rent
• food
• electricity
• healthcare
• car + maintenance
• internet
• phone
• entertainment
• cheap hobby

at that point, proposing that people be unemployed will be a non-evil suggestion

Kloe_Rinz posted...

If they want any percentage of unemployment other than 0%, they need to provide a UBI which will provide a livable wage which can provide the following:

people paid to write serious articles literally are still saying people used the covid checks to go out and buy homes

Kloe_Rinz posted...

If they want any percentage of unemployment other than 0%, they need to provide a UBI which will provide a livable wage which can provide the following:

* rent
* food
* electricity
* healthcare
* car + maintenance
* internet
* phone
* entertainment
* cheap hobby

at that point, proposing that people be unemployed will be a non-evil suggestion

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BwSts2s4ba4

Agent_Stroud posted...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BwSts2s4ba4

Ok so your suggestion is just 10% of people (poor people only) can just fuck off and die?

Kloe_Rinz posted...

If they want any percentage of unemployment other than 0%, they need to provide a UBI which will provide a livable wage which can provide the following:

The fed wants to turn America into France?

Questionmarktarius posted...

The fed wants to turn America into France?

I like French Bread.

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

I like French Bread.

I like French Andre the Giant

The tech sector is seeing the most layoffs so far I think

BakiHanma462 posted...

The tech sector is seeing the most layoffs so far I think

every-goddamn-thing went online during the pandemic, and that's now unwinding.

The sector I'm in (marketing for trade schools) goes absolutely nuts when the economy flounders.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

If they want any percentage of unemployment other than 0%, they need to provide a UBI which will provide a livable wage which can provide the following:

* rent
* food
* electricity
* healthcare
* car + maintenance
* internet
* phone
* entertainment
* cheap hobby

at that point, proposing that people be unemployed will be a non-evil suggestion

the thing about ubi is that any middle men for the mentioned services (landlords, grocery store owners, owners of power companies, etc) will reap significantly larger benefits than the rest of people. why should they be incentivized to raise prices? the more effective solution would be to provide those things directly

Kloe_Rinz posted...

If they want any percentage of unemployment other than 0%, they need to provide a UBI which will provide a livable wage which can provide the following:

* rent
* food
* electricity
* healthcare
* car + maintenance
* internet
* phone
* entertainment
* cheap hobby

at that point, proposing that people be unemployed will be a non-evil suggestion

0%-1% unemployment is actually bad. This does not mean the economy is doing better at all, it means the American economy has stagnated, meaning no new jobs are being made for people to fill. People are too scared to leave the shit jobs.

It's basically the Purge movies.

Hold on.

10% U3, or U6?

imagine a world where Agent_Stroud and BakiHanma462..................

Kalk posted...

0%-1% unemployment is actually bad. This does not mean the economy is doing better at all, it means the American economy has stagnated, meaning no new jobs are being made for people to fill. People are too scared to leave the shit jobs.

It's basically the Purge movies.

Sure but in a world where 10% of people need to be unemployed, they need to have their living situation paid for by the taxpayer and its unfair to expect them to live below poverty

Biden needs to wage war on the fed

Skyrim_Guard posted...

Biden needs to wage war on the fed

Literally the worst president (Andrew Jackson) tried, and failed.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Sure but in a world where 10% of people need to be unemployed, they need to have their living situation paid for by the taxpayer and its unfair to expect them to live below poverty

gotta have poor people for capitalism to work

WingsOfGood posted...

gotta have poor people for capitalism to work

No we dont

Kloe_Rinz posted...

No we dont

how do you have capitalism with no poor people?

WingsOfGood posted...

how do you have capitalism with no poor people?

Same as we do today except the rich are taxed more

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Same as we do today except the rich are taxed more

if you use those taxes to elevate the poor, they won't work for those rich people

WingsOfGood posted...

if you use those taxes to elevate the poor, they won't work for those rich people

wrong. people will usually work to improve their life situation even if they have a relatively comfortable life right now

Johnny_Nutcase posted...

I like French Bread.

https://youtu.be/EKPc5h-pUpk

Kloe_Rinz posted...

wrong. people will usually work to improve their life situation even if they have a relatively comfortable life right now

The whole point of raising unemployment is so the shittiest jobs get a bunch of candidates

As opposed to "no one wants to work! That why no one applies for my min wage job with terrible conditions."

WingsOfGood posted...

The whole point of raising unemployment is so the shittiest jobs get a bunch of candidates

they will already get that when the shittiest jobs offer a QOL improvement over UBI

WingsOfGood posted...

no one applies for my min wage job with terrible conditions

thats a separate discussion. jobs with terrible conditions dont deserve to exist

Kloe_Rinz posted...

No we dont

capitalism does, in fact, necessitate the existence of an exploited underclass

averagejoel posted...

capitalism does, in fact, necessitate the existence of an exploited underclass

Like fast-food business won't exist if people didn't work in those shitty jobs. It's just a temporary gig anyway for most people anyway.

And those jobs don't become less shitty or pay more because that cuts into corporate profit.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

No we dont

Yes you do. Logistically, you have to. You can't have rich people without poor people because their money has to come from somewhere, and that means some people having less money than others. Wealth also creates a snowball effect in capitalism, where the rich get richer because they can afford to make large investments, creating an even bigger gap and even more poor people.

WingsOfGood posted...

gotta have poor people for capitalism to work

Such a simple concept that people here just can't grasp. I've had this debate before.

In a capitalism there is a natural hierarchy of socioeconomic classes, and there pretty much always is a group that gets screwed over unfortunately. The concept that you can elevate the bottom and be done with it is misguided. As you elevate the bottom, the bell curve narrows, but will naturally equilibrate due to inflation and stretch back out and the bottom will again be at the bottom.

And low unemployment means inflation, it means lower productivity - why would you work hard when your job is so safe? That leads to decreased corporate profits and eventually will lead to job losses -> recession. Its not sustainable.

There is a balance of moderate unemployment thats ideal, where theres still competitiveness with a balance of supply and demand that allows people to get paid, while still working hard, business makes money, business creates more jobs and/or allows for promotions. Eventually if everyone is employed it will lead to the negative cycle of inflation -> which eats up business profits and consumer savings -> eventually they cut jobs -> etc.

There is an equilibrium with this economy, if we deviate from that, the system will adjust to the point where you cycle back to where you started. And at the end of the day, more government regulations and involvement will hurt innovation and business growth. Hence the US is the world leader in business and innovation.

averagejoel posted...

capitalism does, in fact, necessitate the existence of an exploited underclass

The system governing it is completely irrelevant. Any and every luxery in life necessitates some kind of exploited class. Which we all, be it rich or poor benefit from.

Capitalism at its core is just a game of winners and loosers. To which some due to a variety of reasons win more then others. But thats simply life, or nature in general. And despite our advancements there are limits to how much we can or should defy it.

Prismsblade posted...

Capitalism at its core is just a game of winners and loosers. To which some due to a variety of reasons win more then others. But thats simply life, or nature in general.

You realize you're basically saying minority groups are impoverished because of "nature", right?

ZMythos posted...

You realize you're basically saying minority groups are impoverished because of "nature", right?

prism is a mega billionaire capitalist defender

he must think he be uber rich one day or something

Prismsblade posted...

The system governing it is completely irrelevant.

no, it very much is not.

Any and every luxery in life necessitates some kind of exploited class.

this is only true because capitalism is the system in which those luxuries are created and distributed. it's inherent in the system; not in the goods/services themselves

Dan_Haren- posted...

but will naturally equilibrate due to inflation

that's not why this happens

it happens because the rich use their power to elevate themselves (and thus harm the poor)

and so government must regularly step in and restore the desired, non-"equilibrium*" balance

*the actual "equilibrium" results in general strikes and revolutions that killed millions

Prismsblade posted...

And despite our advancements there are limits to how much we can or should defy it.

i think most do not disagree with you on this point

only on where those limits are

maybe your ideal distribution looks like the second bar plot here, and ours the third. but please do remember it is actually the first:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/2/9/AAZtnkAAD24d.jpg

Sackgurl posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/2/9/AAZtnkAAD24d.jpg

nice graph

thanks

averagejoel posted...

this is only true because capitalism is the system in which those luxuries are created and distributed. it's inherent in the system; not in the goods/services themselves

It's inherit to people's wants, needs and desires. Which have existed long before capitalism and will continue so with or without it.

And this isn't just for luxerys either but basic things such as food, water, entertainment, contruction, up keep and so on.

The uncomfortable truth: capitalist economies have what is called the "equilibrium rate of unemployment". In order to have a minimum wage, you need unemployment.

W1 is the minimum wage fyi.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/3/3/AAZUkRAAD24h.png

Naysaspace posted...

In order to have a minimum wage, you need unemployment.

in other words you need people to be desperate enough to allow exploitation

Prismsblade posted...

It's inherit to people's wants, needs and desires.

[many, many, many citations needed]

Prismsblade posted...

It's inherit to people's wants, needs and desires. Which have existed long before capitalism and will continue so with or without it.

And this isn't just for luxerys either but basic things such as food, water, entertainment, contruction, up keep and so on.

what are you even trying to say?

fyi in history during times of famine kings still threw away food and had gluttonous feasts

I have a competent union

The regulations you guys want on businesses hurt innovation and profits. Profits are what drives business and innovation is what advances society.

And taxing profits and distributing that to the poor is a great concept, and should and does exist to an extent. But unfortunately its just the way capitalism works that whatever the government provides will and should not be more than what the minimum standards of living that having a working job provides. Too much welfare and inflation gets drive up.

The fed doesn't want 10+% unemployment but it wants high unemployment nonetheless because that cycle of inflation is happening now. If they let things keep going the way they are, all goods and services will drive up in price and that $15 minimum wage is now going to be equivalent to a $5 minimum wage in a few years and the cycle restarts. That $5 carton of eggs or gallon of milk will be $15. Your $10-20 oil change is now $50-60. Obviously not accurate numbers but thats the concept.

And lastly, over-regulation of big-business does hurt innovation and thats what advances our technology, medicine/healthcare, security, transportation, etc.

Regulation protects consumers, environments, workers, and society as a whole.

Regulation hurts innovation like speed limits hurt my morning commute time.

WingsOfGood posted...

So to combat inflation you either gotta suck up egregious record breaking corporate profit or bleed the poor.

So poor losing jobs is the choice.

this is disturbing.

The economy was supposed to be a free market @wingsOfGood , right?

The whole idea is that the market self-regulates and the pendulum swings. But as soon as things don't go the way the oligarchs want, they simply gouge prices, force inflation and then everybody says "we need more unemployment and people dying of hunger and disease to make things ok again".

It's literally class warfare, it's wrong. We're not a free market.

ZMythos posted...

Regulation protects consumers, environments, workers, and society as a whole.

Regulation hurts innovation like speed limits hurt my morning commute time.

Not everything needs to be an extreme. Some regulation for those protections are good. Too much regulation is bad.

Dan_Haren- posted...

Not everything needs to be an extreme. Some regulation for those protections are good. Too much regulation is bad.

What is an example of an extreme regulation?

ZMythos posted...

What is an example of an extreme regulation?

The fact that you're saying regulation protects consumers is implying that the opposing argument is consumer protections are overregulated.

Dan_Haren- posted...

The regulations you guys want on businesses hurt innovation and profits. Profits are what drives business and innovation is what advances society.

And taxing profits and distributing that to the poor is a great concept, and should and does exist to an extent. But unfortunately its just the way capitalism works that whatever the government provides will and should not be more than what the minimum standards of living that having a working job provides. Too much welfare and inflation gets drive up.

oh you mean like how insulin was invented with no profit incentive?

On January 23rd, 1923 Banting, Best, and Collip were awarded the American patents for insulin. They sold the patent to the University of Toronto for $1 each. Banting notably said: Insulin does not belong to me, it belongs to the world. His desire was for everyone who needed access to it to have it.

Infact most of the modern tech you love so much came from Socialist programs.
Government funding to NASA and such that was used to go to the moon.

Ah but what does profit get us? Things desgined to break.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDEtSlqJC4

OH WOW SO MUCH INNOVATION

Look at video gaming. Wow all this paid dlc and cut content really innovated gaming huh....

oh

oh

oh wait

Overwatch 2

innovative

COD

Innovative

@Dan_Haren-