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PowerOats
11/06/22 3:03:36 PM
#1:


https://youtu.be/-SHM-7qMiDs

https://youtu.be/Ztir5aiFCsE
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Null_Gain
11/06/22 3:30:20 PM
#2:


ToA main party (minus Guy) is probably the biggest set of jerks in the series

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Zeph
11/06/22 3:49:00 PM
#3:


The cast is so fucking obnoxious to extreme degrees it turned me off from playing the game

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FatAnimeBooty
11/06/22 3:49:28 PM
#4:


Good game
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Irony
11/06/22 3:50:19 PM
#5:


Null_Gain posted...
ToA main party (minus Guy) is probably the biggest set of jerks in the series
I think every game in the series might be a cast of jerks

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Umbreon
11/06/22 3:53:26 PM
#6:


Luke is amazingly developed as a character. And a lot of his shitty behavior makes sense once you discover the reason behind it.

But yeah the cast overall? It's different than Symphonia's more friendly cast.

https://youtu.be/AVnsd0ir4z4

https://youtu.be/OsD_5CloWRs

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Garioshi
11/06/22 3:54:42 PM
#7:


Bamco really made perfection in 2005 and then proceeded to ignore it for the rest of time

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#8
Post #8 was unavailable or deleted.
alphagamble
11/06/22 4:09:36 PM
#9:


I only watched the anime but I enjoyed it

the party is an interesting bunch

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Irony
11/06/22 4:09:44 PM
#10:


ProfessorKukui posted...
peak "the boring parts is only 50 hours long but after that it picks up" jrpg game
That's Final Fantasy 13

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Null_Gain
11/06/22 5:08:51 PM
#11:


Irony posted...
I think every game in the series might be a cast of jerks

There's quirky people who can be jerks and then there's the ToA cast.

Jade and Anise (especially Anise) are just legit terrible human beings. Jade at least has the excuse of being an admitted sociopath and not knowing any better.

Tear was far too harsh on Luke considering their shared connection to a certain character.

The princess was just really annoying though

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Reave314
11/06/22 5:19:29 PM
#12:


Irony posted...
That's Final Fantasy 13

Incidentally, Tales of the Abyss and Final Fantasy 13 are both about a ragtag bunch of people who really don't work as a party for most of their games, both games have the not-Pope as a villain for them to contend with, both games deal with their respective civilizations eventually falling to the Earth, and both have the oldest party member knowing a lot more than they let on but not divulging it for various reasons.
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Wedge_Antilles
11/06/22 5:20:48 PM
#13:


One of my favourite games of all time. Luke is one of the best developed characters in gaming.

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MaxEffingBemis
11/06/22 5:22:47 PM
#14:


Null_Gain posted...
There's quirky people who can be jerks and then there's the ToA cast.

Jade and Anise (especially Anise) are just legit terrible human beings. Jade at least has the excuse of being an admitted sociopath and not knowing any better.

Tear was far too harsh on Luke considering their shared connection to a certain character.

The princess was just really annoying though
Hey now Tear was only harsh to Luke because Luke was harsh to her

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Solar_Crimson
11/06/22 5:23:17 PM
#15:


Null_Gain posted...
ToA main party (minus Guy) is probably the biggest set of jerks in the series


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Umbreon
11/06/22 5:23:24 PM
#16:


Null_Gain posted...
Jade and Anise (especially Anise) are just legit terrible human beings. Jade at least has the excuse of being an admitted sociopath and not knowing any better.


You're giving an excuse to the grown ass man who withheld information because he just couldn't be fucked to bring it up, over the 13 year old who was being blackmailed and was trying to keep her parents out of financial ruin?

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Solar_Crimson
11/06/22 5:35:17 PM
#17:


Natalia: "...But we have the real Luke right here." (referring to Asch, right in front of Luke)

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Null_Gain
11/06/22 5:50:30 PM
#18:


Umbreon posted...
You're giving an excuse to the grown ass man who withheld information because he just couldn't be fucked to bring it up, over the 13 year old who was being blackmailed and was trying to keep her parents out of financial ruin?

Anise was basically a normal person from a loving family. She chose not to tell anyone about the blackmail, despite her new friends and the things they were accomplishing. Then after betraying the group and leading to the death of kind Aion, is immediately forgiven and doesn't have to seek forgiveness like Luke did after his giant fuck up.

To reiterate, Jade is devoid of empathy and didn't even feel sad when his sister/mother figure died in the lab accident. Though he acknowledged that he should have felt sad.

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Alucard188
11/06/22 5:51:13 PM
#19:


Null_Gain posted...
ToA main party (minus Guy) is probably the biggest set of jerks in the series

Tear is pretty ok, but yeah. The best story with the most unlikable main cast of characters in the entire franchise. Everybody fucking sucks.

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Null_Gain
11/06/22 5:58:47 PM
#20:


MaxEffingBemis posted...
Hey now Tear was only harsh to Luke because Luke was harsh to her


Tear knew that Luke's closest friend/mentor was her brother and still ripped into Luke for choosing to do what he commanded Luke to do.

and let's ignore the fact that she fell in love with someone who was physically and mentally 8 years old lol

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Umbreon
11/06/22 6:03:47 PM
#21:


But then isn't the biggest criticism regarding Anise that fact that's she's easily forgiven? That's more everyone else being a dick towards Luke (including Anise herself). Cause yeah Luke fucked up big time, but it's understandable how he fucked up. As for her keeping quiet about things.... yeah that was dumb as hell, but being stupidly stubborn makes sense given her age. Now that doesn't make her actions okay, but some of her behavior makes sense.

... Though going back to the Symphonia comparisons, it's funny how Abyss has a more assholish party than Symphonia's, yet Abyss has a more sympathetic evil group than Symphonia.

Well, there's a certain exception... I mostly mean the God Generals compared to the Grand Cardinals.

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foxhound101
11/06/22 6:06:38 PM
#22:


The awful cast was the downfall of that game. That is the only game I've played where I kept hoping the majority of the characters would be killed off.

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Umbreon
11/06/22 6:08:25 PM
#23:


Also the sad thing is that Guy is indeed the nicest towards Luke... and Guy literally wants to murder Luke out of revenge for what his father did.

Tales of the Abyss: Is there such a thing as too ragtag?

(Still a great game somehow)

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Lagfile
11/07/22 11:47:21 AM
#24:


I love Tales of the Abyss. The Fields of Fonons, the artes, the movement of battles (quite broken with free run, but it's a single player game so who cares), the cameo battle is the best one in the series, excellent music, the boss battles are cool, and the characters for me personally, are all a blast to play (would say the same for Vesperia, but Karol exists).

The Grade Store for the post-game is great. Too bad it doesn't let you transfer your weapons. Oh, and the post-game is wonderful for Abyss. Playing it on Unknown difficulty is always great.

One of my favorites Tales of easily.

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hortanz
11/07/22 11:52:36 AM
#25:


The best PS2 JRPG that wasn't by Square Enix

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Holy_Cloud105
11/07/22 11:56:03 AM
#26:


The traitor characters are always the worst characters in Tales without question. Alvin is by far the worst offender and I think Anise might be a close second.

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Lordgold666
11/07/22 11:57:31 AM
#27:


Bought this a few years back and i havent played it yet :/

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PowerOats
11/07/22 11:58:32 AM
#28:


What about Raven and Judith from Vesperia?

Or Magilou from Beseria

Or Ludger

Or Kratos
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Wedge_Antilles
11/07/22 11:59:14 AM
#29:


Man, lotta Anise hate. Natalia for me was far more annoying. Just shut the **** up about Asch for 2 seconds lady.

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Alucard188
11/07/22 12:00:10 PM
#30:


hortanz posted...
The best PS2 JRPG that wasn't by Square Enix

It's a better experience on 3DS.

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Jeff_AKA_Snoopy
11/07/22 12:02:58 PM
#31:


I love the cast because they AREN'T all cutesy "everything is fine" all the time. They are losing a fucking war and have a man-child basically fucking them over.

Yeah once they figure out why things are they way they are they are still you know, nearly dying and stuff. A little too busy to be worried about kumbiyah

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VeggetaX
11/07/22 12:08:37 PM
#32:


Null_Gain posted...
ToA main party (minus Guy) is probably the biggest set of jerks in the series
You never played ToV?

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PowerOats
11/07/22 1:29:33 PM
#33:


VeggetaX posted...

You never played ToV?


Yuri? Sometimes
Estelle? No
Repede? Rarely
Rita? Definitely, especially to Karol
Karol? No
Raven? Yes, but not really?
Judith? Rarely
Patty? No
Flynn? No

It's honestly only Rita, and occasionally Yuri
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kelemvor
11/07/22 1:38:36 PM
#34:


I loved the God Generals. It's fun when the villains you are fighting have plenty of backstory that you get to learn about. The last time I played the game was when it first came out on PS2, but who was the guy who floated around in that chair? He cracked me up.
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VeggetaX
11/07/22 1:39:10 PM
#35:


Yuri is a self-righteous prick. Through his journey, he doesn't believe he's changed or grown. Only that the circumstances around him have changed, not himself. That's not true at all because he does indeed change for better or worst.

What I did not like about most of the characters is how secretive they were about themselves. The only person who was honest was Karol. Everyone acted like they were some big mysterious person and everyone even condoned it, especially Yuri. A LOT of the issues could have been resolved if only everyone came clean to each other.

Yuri is a White Knight. He puts down Karol and Raven a ton even for trivial shit but tolerates a lot of the bullshit the girls say and do. Sometimes when Karol isn't so confident, Yuri basically tells him to man up and figure shit out. Whenever Raven makes jokes, Yuri is quick to be tightwad about it. And the worst thing is whenever the girls make fun of Karol/Raven, he quickly dogpiles on them with the girls.

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VeggetaX
11/07/22 1:42:54 PM
#36:


The theme of Abyss is change, redemption and forgiveness mean while Vesperia's theme is "everyone has baggage and it's normal".

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Reave314
11/07/22 1:44:42 PM
#37:


VeggetaX posted...
Sometimes when Karol isn't so confident, Yuri basically tells him to man up and figure shit out.

Karol's entire character arc is him wanting to man up and be a leader, though, so Yuri's perfectly in line there.
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VeggetaX
11/07/22 1:48:00 PM
#38:


Reave314 posted...
Karol's entire character arc is him wanting to man up and be a leader, though, so Yuri's perfectly in line there.
male toxicity yeah that's how it needed to be done

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gunplagirl
11/07/22 1:51:08 PM
#39:


Jade really is awful. I get why Anise did the stuff, at least.

Best male party member in the series is Judas for sure, btw. Funny how nobody really hates him. Or Jade. :la 13 year old girl though? Yep.

Reave314 posted...
Karol's entire character arc is him wanting to man up and be a leader, though, so Yuri's perfectly in line there.
This, he can't hold Karol's hand but he will watch over him making those steps. It's also why when there's the fights with Karol's friends, Yuri goes into big brother mode. Stepping in enough to resolve the fighting but leaving the talking to his little brother.

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VeggetaX
11/07/22 1:57:38 PM
#40:


Jade is great. He's just too logical to a fault but that's not to say he lacks compassion or empathy.

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gunplagirl
11/07/22 2:01:26 PM
#41:


VeggetaX posted...
Yuri is a self-righteous prick. Through his journey, he doesn't believe he's changed or grown. Only that the circumstances around him have changed, not himself. That's not true at all because he does indeed change for better or worst.
Yuri is a 23 year old. Spoiler alert, most people with a developed worldview aren't going to change that. He changed by being softer and kinder to friends. That's how he changed. But his convictions WERE challenged, and that is why he killed those two villains at the beginning and middle of the second act of the game. It's why he was willing to do that and more just to make sure Flynn could keep his record spotless.

That's how a well written adult character should be. They can have their convictions challenged but they shouldn't have their entire worldview change on a dime like how Luke changed his views 4 times in the damn game.

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Irony
11/07/22 2:04:18 PM
#42:


hortanz posted...
The best PS2 JRPG that wasn't by Square Enix
Shut the fuck up

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Umbreon
11/07/22 2:07:32 PM
#43:


kelemvor posted...
who was the guy who floated around in that chair? He cracked me up.


Dist the Reaper Runny

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VeggetaX
11/07/22 2:09:09 PM
#44:


gunplagirl posted...
Yuri is a 23 year old. Spoiler alert, most people with a developed worldview aren't going to change that. He changed by being softer and kinder to friends. That's how he changed. But his convictions WERE challenged, and that is why he killed those two villains at the beginning and middle of the second act of the game. It's why he was willing to do that and more just to make sure Flynn could keep his record spotless.

That's how a well written adult character should be. They can have their convictions challenged but they shouldn't have their entire worldview change on a dime like how Luke changed his views 4 times in the damn game.
Yuri was always about helping people. Becoming a murderer was something he had to change about himself in order to do it. The problem is he doesn't believe he had to change to be able to do it. He believes it's just something that made him do it.

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VeggetaX
11/07/22 2:11:50 PM
#45:


gunplagirl posted...
Judas
Leon is a huge asshole. It's too bad not enough people played ToD to know this. Most people's first Tales Of game is Symphonia which is prolly why that game has so many fanboys.

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gunplagirl
11/07/22 2:12:33 PM
#46:


VeggetaX posted...
Yuri was always about helping people. Becoming a murderer was something he had to change about himself in order to do it. The problem is he doesn't believe he had to change to be able to do it. He believes it's just something that made him do it.
Ah. See, this leads to a difference in how we interpret the character and while I base some off interviews about the characters and story, it's also obvious that other parts are my own interpretation. And the same seems true of you. So we'd just be at an impasse and I'd love to discuss it at some other point but right now I'm feeling like trash from my covid booster so I'll have to pass for now.

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VeggetaX
11/07/22 2:14:23 PM
#47:


Right, agree to disagree.

I just don't see him as the straight rational direct man the game tries to tell you when you can clearly see that he is incredibly flawed.

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gunplagirl
11/07/22 2:15:22 PM
#48:


VeggetaX posted...
Leon is a huge asshole. It's too bad not enough people played ToD to know this. Most people's first Tales Of game is Symphonia which is prolly why that game has so many fanboys.
Leon did nothing wrong. He's best boy because of how well it was thematically written. Wait. Okay, can we both at least agree that the main male+female relationship pairing in Rebirth made sense, even in light of all the details that go along with being reincarnations and all?

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VeggetaX
11/07/22 2:20:29 PM
#49:


I never played Rebirth but Leon is just a major asshole to Stahn, especially in the remake.

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gunplagirl
11/07/22 2:38:42 PM
#50:


VeggetaX posted...
I never played Rebirth but Leon is just a major asshole to Stahn, especially in the remake.
The psp one or the ps2 version? I only played the psp one, myself.

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