Poll of the Day > What sort of education would be needed to learn how to mod game consoles?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I imagine that a background in systems programming is a must. How much computer science experience would be needed in order to begin attaining such a background?

I must have these answers.

halo legendary degree

Probably greatly depends on the console you wanna mod and what you wanna do. Its also probably one of those things where a specialty in programming might help, but focusing only on that wouldn't be too hard.

Its like Telco, yeah a background in Networking is a plus, but I could theoretically teach anyone to do a specific job in the industry in like two weeks if needed.

I would expect you'd need some computer science and some electrical engineering, but not sure.

really what you'd need, I think, is to obtain the specification documents (or equivalent information) and completely and thoroughly read them and understand them.

I'm not at all sure how to obtain that, what kinds of documentation are available, or if it would be official or reverse-engineered. (probably varies a lot by system).

I suppose there may also be simpler solutions, like if someone provided a programmable intermediate add-on of some kind (sort of like what a game-genie is, but something more technical).

Sahuagin posted...

I would expect you'd need some computer science and some electrical engineering, but not sure.

NASA has a great database of electrical engineering videos on YouTube that cover things like wire placement, braiding, proper soldering techniques, etc ...

As for programming, start with the basics of logic and assembly, a good foundation in logic functions can translate across languages and decades.

Sahuagin posted...

a programmable intermediate add-on of some kind

I'm asking this question because I'm curious about where people learn how to engineer such devices.

You mean like, the people that make mods and hacks, right? Since just applying mods/hacks is pretty easy these days.

I'd say a couple years of comp sci if you have an aptitude for it and apply yourself? I just did 2 years of school for Network Technician stuff, but I've kind of steered away from the coding side. If I'm being realistic, you'd probably need 2-4 years of good study. Maybe you could accomplish that on your own, but school would be the easiest way to get the work in for me personally.

EclairReturns posted...

I'm asking this question because I'm curious about where people learn how to engineer such devices.

After the basics of understanding electrical engineering and computer science you'd really just have to do a lot of personal study into resources available online. People have really gotten down into the nitty-gritty of past consoles, so it's all out there.

ReturnOfFa posted...

the people that make mods and hacks

Yes, in addition to those who learn the architecture of a given device and how to add to it new functionality that the original manufacturers of the device had not intended.

EclairReturns posted...

Yes, in addition to those who learn the architecture of a given device and how to add to it new functionality that the original manufacturers of the device had not intended.

What consoles/handhelds intrigue you? Probably going to have to learn C++ or some big programming languages that's for sure

I honestly have no idea how some people figure stuff like that out. Sure I understand more or less what resistors and capacitors do, but I can't just look at a circuit board and parse out their significance. And wiring diagrams can be hard to understand, that's like a special skill in itself.

I feel like you'd need a PhD to truly know what you're doing, but I doubt most modders have that. They've just pieced together a lot of knowledge by just doing things, looking into what others have done, doing more things, learning along the way, etc.

I wish I knew how to mod too but I can't do much more than follow directions of an existing mod. And even then stuff like soldering can be tricky at times

EclairReturns posted...

I'm asking this question because I'm curious about where people learn how to engineer such devices.

Trial and error.

Someone dumps the source code, someone else finds something neat, some people just dick around and see what happens. Usually it's just an enthusiast who gets really into a passion project to quiet the goblins in their head.

Like in an episode of That 70's Show where Kelso finds pong too easy so he opens it up to make the paddles smaller.

I think a lot of the Game Shark codes came about because they were just messing around with hex values and finding interesting and sometimes beneficial exploits.

RagOnAStick posted...

I honestly have no idea how some people figure stuff like that out. Sure I understand more or less what resistors and capacitors do, but I can't just look at a circuit board and parse out their significance. And wiring diagrams can be hard to understand, that's like a special skill in itself.

I feel like you'd need a PhD to truly know what you're doing, but I doubt most modders have that. They've just pieced together a lot of knowledge by just doing things, looking into what others have done, doing more things, learning along the way, etc.

I wish I knew how to mod too but I can't do much more than follow directions of an existing mod. And even then stuff like soldering can be tricky at times

I'm just glad I didn't screw up the battery replacement I did for my copy of Pokemon Emerald...hadn't soldered anything in a long time XD

I can dig around in code and figure things out/add functionality/etc., but doing it in hex not so much. trying to modify hex without adequate documentation just by fiddling with values seems like too crazy and tedious and time-wasty of a thing to do. but I could see it getting easier as you did it more, I guess the hard part is getting started. (but that is still software not hardware.)

I dunno how much it helps, but this channel which has been posted here before (SMB1 AI video) is good; he's the kind of guy that can do that kind of thing. this is his video about "reverse emulating" the NES which is kind of an awesome thing to do. and he explains how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0

Why would you want to mod the console and not the games?

Sahuagin posted...

I can dig around in code and figure things out/add functionality/etc., but doing it in hex not so much. trying to modify hex without adequate documentation just by fiddling with values seems like too crazy and tedious and time-wasty of a thing to do. but I could see it getting easier as you did it more, I guess the hard part is getting started. (but that is still software not hardware.)

I dunno how much it helps, but this channel which has been posted here before (SMB1 AI video) is good; he's the kind of guy that can do that kind of thing. this is his video about "reverse emulating" the NES which is kind of an awesome thing to do. and he explains how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0

I love this dude's videos although he is a comp sci PhD so it definitely goes to show you really need to put in the work

yo! Eclair! how've you been?

I'll PM you, and reply to the other lot when I have the energy for it.

EclairReturns posted...

and reply to the other lot when I have the energy for it.

No rush, take it easy.

If you have the ambition, you could probably do so with a 2-year electronics degree assuming you already know some basic programming and have the drive to learn outside of school.

A programming or computer science degree will teach you to program and a little about how computers work, but an electronics or computer engineering technology degree will teach you assembly or C and all of the hardware architecture.

11110111011 posted...

If you have the ambition, you could probably do so with a 2-year electronics degree assuming you already know some basic programming and have the drive to learn outside of school.

A programming or computer science degree will teach you to program and a little about how computers work, but an electronics or computer engineering technology degree will teach you assembly or C and all of the hardware architecture.

This is the big takeaway from the thread.

The foundational skills from the engineering side will serve you far better than a narrow focus on a specific language; you can always learn the languages later if you really want to dive deep but having the ability to hard code a program onto a motherboard is a dying art that is underappreciated.

I give serious thought to getting my engineering degree which also comes with the bonus of being able to legally operate a train.

11110111011 posted...

assembly or C and all of the hardware architecture.

FYI that is in comp sci too, though maybe not to the same degree. you write graphical applications in assembly, call your own C program from assembly and your own assembly program from C, be able to read CPU specs to translate between machine language and assembly, etc.

the difference I think is that in comp sci, at almost no point will you ever do anything with physical hardware. (systems administration is one exception.) even in Computer Structure learning about transistors and micro-instructions, still no physical hardware. (I think I had a very lazy version of that class though so who knows.)

I remember reading about a course at MIT where the class would build routers. you would be in groups of 1 c. scientist and 2 e. engineers, the EEs would build the circuits and the CSs would program the chips.

ReturnOfFa posted...

What consoles/handhelds

None in particular, at the moment. It's just an idle thought that I felt like vocalizing.

ReturnOfFa posted...

C++ or some big programming languages

Definitely. I know some Python, but I'm pretty sure that it'd be too inefficient and too "distant" from the metal to do anything meaningful. I do know some C and a little of C++. I have thought many times about building my C/C++ skills. But lately, I just slack the energy for any serious study. The lack of projects, aside from the project of "do everything I've done in Python except faster", doesn't help matters.

Sahuagin posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar9WRwCiSr0

It is an interesting watch. But I lost track of what he was saying mid-way through the video, sad to say.