Current Events > Would you support the idea of making gym class tougher in order to pass?

(+) Yeah! (+)

IMO I do

I see too many people working in offices that are fat and out of shape. Especially in robotics and tech offices.

You really should be able to run a mile nonstop (at the minimum) in order to pass

My wife doesnt support it though and thinks it should stay an easy A because fitness to her is not as important as academics

I always felt as long as the fat kids were actually trying and sweating they earned that A.

They didnt need to be able to make a certain time or something. As long as they were actually putting in the effort there was no need to tank their gpa for something they physically couldnt do.

as CE's resident fat kid, no

Some simply can't do as much as others, so no. I do think that they should be more stringent about effort though, and tying that to the grades.

I'm not sure gym class should be required at all, tbh.

Nerevarine791 posted...

I'm not sure gym class should be required at all, tbh.

it still should be a requirement. look how fat and obese a lot of people working in offices or white collar jobs are

AzNDarkSamurai posted...

it still should be a requirement. look how fat and obese a lot of people working in offices or white collar jobs are

Schools are not job-preparation factories. A shorter school day would be more beneficial to most kids than mandatory PE that has nothing to do with creating informed, educated citizens.

Nerevarine791 posted...

I'm not sure gym class should be required at all, tbh.

I definitely do NOT agree with that. There needs to be more gym, art and music. Maybe more classes about personal responsibility like home improvement and finances. Less memorization and standardized tests.

You could exercise all day long, if you eat garbage youre still going to be fat.

gym class is not a silver bullet to end the obesity problem, and traumatizing smart, dedicated students with the prospect of affecting their GPA because they cant do 50 pushups or whatever is dumb

bsp77 posted...

I definitely do NOT agree with that. There needs to be more gym, art and music. Maybe more classes about personal responsibility like home improvement and finances. Less memorization and standardized tests.

Definitely agree on the arts.

AzNDarkSamurai posted...

it still should be a requirement. look how fat and obese a lot of people working in offices or white collar jobs are

I dont see the correlation. What does mandatory PE in High School have to do with overweight people in their 40s-50s?

PE is one of the best opportunities students get to socialize with each other. It shouldn't be an active fight to not fail.

Nerevarine791 posted...

Definitely agree on the arts.

It all ties together IMO. It also gives kids a break from typical studies which just causes ADHD related issues.

Jiggy101011 posted...

I dont see the correlation. What does mandatory PE in High School have to do with overweight people in their 40s-50s?

PE can teach more kids to take fitness seriously so that they have a lesser chance of ending up like those fat 40-50 year olds in office jobs

PE is a very important class for many students. School is already a poor fit for teaching children, removing PE would make it even worse.

^The only part I dont get is. how is school a poor fit for teaching children?

AzNDarkSamurai posted...

^The only part I dont get is. how is school a poor fit for teaching children?

Really simplified, there are 4 learning styles.
Visual
Auditory
Reading / Writing
Kinesthetic

Historically schools have been auditory and reading / writing. In the last 20 years there has been a lot more visual, but it is still definitely less prevalent than auditory and reading / writing.

Kinesthetic is largely ignored anymore. 20-50 years ago, most decently funded schools had a wood shop, a metal shop, maybe an auto shop, and possibly other technology related hands on classes (we had a class literally just called technology that was about video creation and editing, mostly).

The problem lies in that only ~5%* of people are primary kinesthetic learners so they are nearly always ignored, but it is a super strong reinforcer of learning for nearly all types.

Or, another way to put it, only about 30% of students are effectively learning in a lecture environment, which makes up a disproportionate amount of our education for how effective it is.

Particularly schools fail boys at increasing rates as more and more of these sort of classes are removed.

Edit: And that 5% I think is really under reported just because there are so few classes tailored for kinesthetic learning. Like have they ever tried hands on calculus or trig for the kids that start struggling there?

Norman_Smiley posted...

Really simplified, there are 4 learning styles.
Visual
Auditory
Reading / Writing
Kinesthetic

This is patently, provably untrue. This is a stubborn myth that has no basis in reality and is only pushed by people who have no background in education.

Oh and what is your background in education?

Norman_Smiley posted...

Oh and what is your background in education?

I have an MA in English, with specializations in composition-rhetoric and teaching ESL, as well as a BA in English with specialization in teaching ESL, have taught college-level writing, have substitute taught including long-term high school English, and have many friends and acquaintances as well as family members who work in k-12 from paras to teachers.

So, lol.

Again, you can fucking google "learning styles" and find tons of academic articles debunking them. It's pseudoscientific bullshit.

We should increase academic standards and physical fitness standards. We should be creating brilliant, athletic adults ready to improve our country.

Nerevarine791 posted...

I have an MA in English, with specializations in composition-rhetoric and teaching ESL, as well as a BA in English with specialization in teaching ESL, have taught college-level writing, have substitute taught including long-term high school English, and have many friends and acquaintances as well as family members who work in k-12 from paras to teachers.

So, lol.

Again, you can fucking google "learning styles" and find tons of academic articles debunking them. It's pseudoscientific bullshit.

I'll believe my mom who taught 30 years and is currently getting paid to tutor dyslexic kids over you, thanks very much.

Norman_Smiley posted...

I'll believe my mom who taught 30 years and is currently getting paid to tutor dyslexic kids over you, thanks very much.

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA628405045&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=15399664&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ece0ceb3

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0098628315589505

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1477878515606621

https://journalhosting.ucalgary.ca/index.php/cjnse/article/view/68575

Only a small selection, but sorry, your mom is wrong. Vibes don't take precedence over scientific reality.

I'm guessing this was inspired by my topic.

I'm not even sure how this would be done fairly without remaking the physical education program to be similar (or more similar at least) to the one from the 60s in that topic

Nerevarine791 posted...

https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA628405045&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=15399664&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ece0ceb3

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0098628315589505

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1477878515606621

https://journalhosting.ucalgary.ca/index.php/cjnse/article/view/68575

Only a small selection, but sorry, your mom is wrong. Vibes don't take precedence over scientific reality.

I have a feeling you haven't even read the things you are posting. I went ahead and did so. First 2 links are basically nothing. 3rd link is a real document.

That link makes a good argument that prior to 2009 there isn't a lot of empirical evidence that stands up to scrutiny in support of learning styles. It doesn't make a good argument that learning styles don't exist. Seems more like a call to action "hey, we are all making this assumption, let's do some actual research"

Vast majority of that is going through a whole bunch of different studies, what they were, what the results were in abstract form. First the vast majority of these studies are done on college students. I am only skimming those results because if a student made it to college they are achieving well enough regardless of style. It also goes on to poison the well on a number of the middle eastern studies it goes onto talk about that were in pay for publish journals. So I only skimmed those, too.

Mahdjoubi and Akplotsyi (2012) is one of the most interesting studies, took place in UK, 151 students, 4 schools, took multiple days, tried VAK models, but was not testing achievement. Did see significant differences in engagement when matched with style. The K students walked more, the V students looked at pictures longer, took more pictures etc.

Martin (2010) is probably most relevant. Took place in UK, secondary school (looks like ages 11-15?) that tested multiple learning styles with 394 students, saw no predictive results from matching styles. Also when the teachers were presented with the findings as well as the information that there isn't a lot of empirical research into learning styles they were "unperturbed by it" and continued to have confidence in learning styles.

So yeah, seems like more research on this subject is necessary. The author's conclusion itself, admits that learning style isn't completely debunked.

Sure Lisa, we could make the classes harder, but then we'd get the dumber students in here complaining and furrowing their brows in a vain attempt to understand the situation...

Nerevarine791 posted...

I have an MA in English, with specializations in composition-rhetoric and teaching ESL, as well as a BA in English with specialization in teaching ESL, have taught college-level writing, have substitute taught including long-term high school English, and have many friends and acquaintances as well as family members who work in k-12 from paras to teachers.

So, lol.

Again, you can fucking google "learning styles" and find tons of academic articles debunking them. It's pseudoscientific bullshit.

My ex's friend is similarly credentialed and is one of the dumbest people I have ever met. I actually refused to believe she was a college professor for the longest time.

bsp77 posted...

I definitely do NOT agree with that. There needs to be more gym, art and music. Maybe more classes about personal responsibility like home improvement and finances. Less memorization and standardized tests.

This. I don't care what year the Magna Carta happened. With the exception of right now, I've never talked about it in a conversation.

i doubt a gym class could really affect anything you do before or after it

People would cry that it is oppressive or some shit.

Its easier to just let them do what they want and everyone passes.

Norman_Smiley posted...

Vast majority of that is going through a whole bunch of different studies, what they were, what the results were in abstract form.

An important element of research yes, which you'd know if you'd taken any sort of research methods classes.

Kajagogo posted...

This. I don't care what year the Magna Carta happened. With the exception of right now, I've never talked about it in a conversation.

And this is why we have people who think the Magna Carta protects them from being required to get a vaccine.

Nerevarine791 posted...

And this is why we have people who think the Magna Carta protects them from being required to get a vaccine.

No one has ever said that.

So the fat kids who are already struggling and almost die will actually die. Seems bad.

Harder PE in school will not in any way prevent people from being fatasses later.

Signed, modern day fatass who played soccer and baseball little league

So is your new gimmick hating on people who are out of shape? Has the hating poor people gimmick run its course?

Here's an idea - combine the two!

Back in my day, we ate all the kids who couldn't cut it in gym class.

Lost_All_Senses posted...

Back in my day, we ate all the kids who couldn't cut it in gym class.

great idea cap'n that's why we're all so fucking fat

DrizztLink posted...

great idea cap'n that's why we're all so fucking fat

.....what have we done.....WHAT HAVE WE DONE?!?

It should be like Boot Camp.

Kids need to learn "get your ass in gear" early so they don't get blindsided with it later in life.

Kajagogo posted...

No one has ever said that.

Lol they absolutely have though. The Magna Carta is subject of many conspiracy theories pushed by sovereign citizen types

No. When I was in high-school I had multiple pituitary tumors and surgeries, and it was really a bitch having to deal with everyone expecting me to do good because i was athletic then marking me down when I didn't try because it just took too much out of me at times.

Get rid of car dependent suburban sprawl and child obesity rates will go down.

Norman_Smiley posted...

The problem lies in that only ~5%* of people are primary kinesthetic learners so they are nearly always ignored, but it is a super strong reinforcer of learning for nearly all types.

The bigger problem is that woodshop, home-ec, music, art, and gym are not in the mandatory testing at the end of the year.

No... Keep it an easy pass... Some people just don't care about athletics... No reason to make it harder to graduate for those who don't give a shit...

Nerevarine791 posted...

Schools are not job-preparation factories. A shorter school day would be more beneficial to most kids than mandatory PE that has nothing to do with creating informed, educated citizens.

physical education, about how to take care of your body, is not important for the citizenry?

famfam posted...

physical education, about how to take care of your body, is not important for the citizenry?

PE never taught me how to take care of my body.

PE at my high school was "the washed up baseball coach reads the paper while you either play basketball or lift weights with no direction" which was totally useful, I learned a lot.

Murphiroth posted...

PE never taught me how to take care of my body.

PE at my high school was "the washed up baseball coach reads the paper while you either play basketball or lift weights with no direction" which was totally useful, I learned a lot.

so the class needs to be run better, rather than removed?