Current Events > Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say

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Scorsese2002 06/15/22 10:21:46 AM #1:	https://apnews.com/article/gender-transition-treatment-guidelines-9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the groups previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment. The association provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of its update ahead of publication in a medical journal, expected later this year. The international group promotes evidence-based standards of care and includes more than 3,000 doctors, social scientists and others involved in transgender health issues. The update is based on expert opinion and a review of scientific evidence on the benefits and harms of transgender medical treatment in teens whose gender identity doesnt match the sex they were assigned at birth, the group said. Such evidence is limited but has grown in the last decade, the group said, with studies suggesting the treatments can improve psychological well-being and reduce suicidal behavior. Starting treatment earlier allows transgender teens to experience physical puberty changes around the same time as other teens, said Dr. Eli Coleman, chair of the groups standards of care and director of the University of Minnesota Medical Schools human sexuality program. But he stressed that age is just one factor to be weighed. Emotional maturity, parents consent, longstanding gender discomfort and a careful psychological evaluation are among the others. Certainly there are adolescents that do not have the emotional or cognitive maturity to make an informed decision, he said. That is why we recommend a careful multidisciplinary assessment. The updated guidelines include recommendations for treatment in adults, but the teen guidance is bound to get more attention. It comes amid a surge in kids referred to clinics offering transgender medical treatment, along with new efforts to prevent or restrict the treatment. Many experts say more kids are seeking such treatment because gender-questioning children are more aware of their medical options and facing less stigma. Critics, including some from within the transgender treatment community, say some clinics are too quick to offer irreversible treatment to kids who would otherwise outgrow their gender-questioning. Psychologist Erica Anderson resigned her post as a board member of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health last year after voicing concerns about sloppy treatment given to kids without adequate counseling. She is still a group member and supports the updated guidelines, which emphasize comprehensive assessments before treatment. But she says dozens of families have told her that doesnt always happen. They tell me horror stories. They tell me, Our child had 20 minutes with the doctor before being offered hormones, she said. The parents leave with their hair on fire. Estimates on the number of transgender youth and adults worldwide vary, partly because of different definitions. The associations new guidelines say data from mostly Western countries suggest a range of between a fraction of a percent in adults to up to 8% in kids. Anderson said shes heard recent estimates suggesting the rate in kids is as high as 1 in 5 which she strongly disputes. That number likely reflects gender-questioning kids who arent good candidates for lifelong medical treatment or permanent physical changes, she said. Still, Anderson said she condemns politicians who want to punish parents for allowing their kids to receive transgender treatment and those who say treatment should be banned for those under age 18. Thats just absolutely cruel, she said. Dr. Marci Bowers, the transgender health groups president-elect, also has raised concerns about hasty treatment, but she acknowledged the frustration of people who have been forced to jump through arbitrary hoops and barriers to treatment by gatekeepers ... and subjected to scrutiny that is not applied to another medical diagnosis. Gabe Poulos, 22, had breast removal surgery at age 16 and has been on sex hormones for seven years. The Asheville, North Carolina, resident struggled miserably with gender discomfort before his treatment. Poulos said hes glad he was able to get treatment at a young age. Transitioning under the roof with your parents so they can go through it with you, thats really beneficial, he said. Im so much happier now. In South Carolina, where a proposed law would ban transgender treatments for kids under age 18, Eli Bundy has been waiting to get breast removal surgery since age 15. Now 18, Bundy just graduated from high school and is planning to have surgery before college. Bundy, who identifies as nonbinary, supports easing limits on transgender medical care for kids. Those decisions are best made by patients and patient families and medical professionals, they said. It definitely makes sense for there to be fewer restrictions, because then kids and physicians can figure it out together. Dr. Julia Mason, an Oregon pediatrician who has raised concerns about the increasing numbers of youngsters who are getting transgender treatment, said too many in the field are jumping the gun. She argues there isnt strong evidence in favor of transgender medical treatment for kids. In medicine ... the treatment has to be proven safe and effective before we can start recommending it, Mason said. Experts say the most rigorous research studies comparing treated kids with outcomes in untreated kids would be unethical and psychologically harmful to the untreated group. The new guidelines include starting medication called puberty blockers in the early stages of puberty, which for girls is around ages 8 to 13 and typically two years later for boys. Thats no change from the groups previous guidance. The drugs delay puberty and give kids time to decide about additional treatment; their effects end when the medication is stopped. The blockers can weaken bones, and starting them too young in children assigned males at birth might impair sexual function in adulthood, although long-term evidence is lacking. The update also recommends: Sex hormones estrogen or testosterone starting at age 14. This is often lifelong treatment. Long-term risks may include infertility and weight gain, along with strokes in trans women and high blood pressure in trans men, the guidelines say. Breast removal for trans boys at age 15. Previous guidance suggested this could be done at least a year after hormones, around age 17, although a specific minimum ag wasnt listed. Most genital surgeries starting at age 17, including womb and testicle removal, a year earlier than previous guidance. The Endocrine Society, another group that offers guidance on transgender treatment, generally recommends starting a year or two later, although it recently moved to start updating its own guidelines. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association support allowing kids to seek transgender medical treatment, but they dont offer age-specific guidance. Dr. Joel Frader, a Northwestern University a pediatrician and medical ethicist who advises a gender treatment program at Chicagos Lurie Childrens Hospital, said guidelines should rely on psychological readiness, not age. --- https://www.twitch.tv/dtake86 <cite>Scorsese2002 posted [p:965830421] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>https://apnews.com/article/gender-transition-treatment-guidelines-9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health said hormones could be started at age 14, two years earlier than the groups previous advice, and some surgeries done at age 15 or 17, a year or so earlier than previous guidance. The group acknowledged potential risks but said it is unethical and harmful to withhold early treatment. The association provided The Associated Press with an advance copy of its update ahead of publication in a medical journal, expected later this year. The international group promotes evidence-based standards of care and includes more than 3,000 doctors, social scientists and others involved in transgender health issues. The update is based on expert opinion and a review of scientific evidence on the benefits and harms of transgender medical treatment in teens whose gender identity doesnt match the sex they were assigned at birth, the group said. Such evidence is limited but has grown in the last decade, the group said, with studies suggesting the treatments can improve psychological well-being and reduce suicidal behavior. Starting treatment earlier allows transgender teens to experience physical puberty changes around the same time as other teens, said Dr. Eli Coleman, chair of the groups standards of care and director of the University of Minnesota Medical Schools human sexuality program. But he stressed that age is just one factor to be weighed. Emotional maturity, parents consent, longstanding gender discomfort and a careful psychological evaluation are among the others. Certainly there are adolescents that do not have the emotional or cognitive maturity to make an informed decision, he said. That is why we recommend a careful multidisciplinary assessment. The updated guidelines include recommendations for treatment in adults, but the teen guidance is bound to get more attention. It comes amid a surge in kids referred to clinics offering transgender medical treatment, along with new efforts to prevent or restrict the treatment. Many experts say more kids are seeking such treatment because gender-questioning children are more aware of their medical options and facing less stigma. Critics, including some from within the transgender treatment community, say some clinics are too quick to offer irreversible treatment to kids who would otherwise outgrow their gender-questioning. Psychologist Erica Anderson resigned her post as a board member of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health last year after voicing concerns about sloppy treatment given to kids without adequate counseling. She is still a group member and supports the updated guidelines, which emphasize comprehensive assessments before treatment. But she says dozens of families have told her that doesnt always happen. They tell me horror stories. They tell me, Our child had 20 minutes with the doctor before being offered hormones, she said. The parents leave with their hair on fire. Estimates on the number of transgender youth and adults worldwide vary, partly because of different definitions. The associations new guidelines say data from mostly Western countries suggest a range of between a fraction of a percent in adults to up to 8% in kids. Anderson said shes heard recent estimates suggesting the rate in kids is as high as 1 in 5 which she strongly disputes. That number likely reflects gender-questioning kids who arent good candidates for lifelong medical treatment or permanent physical changes, she said. Still, Anderson said she condemns politicians who want to punish parents for allowing their kids to receive transgender treatment and those who say treatment should be banned for those under age 18. Thats just absolutely cruel, she said. Dr. Marci Bowers, the transgender health groups president-elect, also has raised concerns about hasty treatment, but she acknowledged the frustration of people who have been forced to jump through arbitrary hoops and barriers to treatment by gatekeepers ... and subjected to scrutiny that is not applied to another medical diagnosis. Gabe Poulos, 22, had breast removal surgery at age 16 and has been on sex hormones for seven years. The Asheville, North Carolina, resident struggled miserably with gender discomfort before his treatment. Poulos said hes glad he was able to get treatment at a young age. Transitioning under the roof with your parents so they can go through it with you, thats really beneficial, he said. Im so much happier now. In South Carolina, where a proposed law would ban transgender treatments for kids under age 18, Eli Bundy has been waiting to get breast removal surgery since age 15. Now 18, Bundy just graduated from high school and is planning to have surgery before college. Bundy, who identifies as nonbinary, supports easing limits on transgender medical care for kids. Those decisions are best made by patients and patient families and medical professionals, they said. It definitely makes sense for there to be fewer restrictions, because then kids and physicians can figure it out together. Dr. Julia Mason, an Oregon pediatrician who has raised concerns about the increasing numbers of youngsters who are getting transgender treatment, said too many in the field are jumping the gun. She argues there isnt strong evidence in favor of transgender medical treatment for kids. In medicine ... the treatment has to be proven safe and effective before we can start recommending it, Mason said. Experts say the most rigorous research studies comparing treated kids with outcomes in untreated kids would be unethical and psychologically harmful to the untreated group. The new guidelines include starting medication called puberty blockers in the early stages of puberty, which for girls is around ages 8 to 13 and typically two years later for boys. Thats no change from the groups previous guidance. The drugs delay puberty and give kids time to decide about additional treatment; their effects end when the medication is stopped. The blockers can weaken bones, and starting them too young in children assigned males at birth might impair sexual function in adulthood, although long-term evidence is lacking. The update also recommends: Sex hormones estrogen or testosterone starting at age 14. This is often lifelong treatment. Long-term risks may include infertility and weight gain, along with strokes in trans women and high blood pressure in trans men, the guidelines say. Breast removal for trans boys at age 15. Previous guidance suggested this could be done at least a year after hormones, around age 17, although a specific minimum ag wasnt listed. Most genital surgeries starting at age 17, including womb and testicle removal, a year earlier than previous guidance. The Endocrine Society, another group that offers guidance on transgender treatment, generally recommends starting a year or two later, although it recently moved to start updating its own guidelines. The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association support allowing kids to seek transgender medical treatment, but they dont offer age-specific guidance. Dr. Joel Frader, a Northwestern University a pediatrician and medical ethicist who advises a gender treatment program at Chicagos Lurie Childrens Hospital, said guidelines should rely on psychological readiness, not age. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Scorsese2002 06/15/22 10:21:55 AM #2:	Frader said brain science shows that kids are able to make logical decisions by around age 14, but theyre prone to risk-taking and they take into account long-term consequences of their actions only when theyre much older. Coleen Williams, a psychologist at Boston Childrens Hospitals Gender Multispecialty Service, said treatment decisions there are collaborative and individualized. Medical intervention in any realm is not a one-size-fits-all option, Williams said. --- https://www.twitch.tv/dtake86 <cite>Scorsese2002 posted [p:965830426] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Frader said brain science shows that kids are able to make logical decisions by around age 14, but theyre prone to risk-taking and they take into account long-term consequences of their actions only when theyre much older. Coleen Williams, a psychologist at Boston Childrens Hospitals Gender Multispecialty Service, said treatment decisions there are collaborative and individualized. Medical intervention in any realm is not a one-size-fits-all option, Williams said. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PatrickMahomes 06/15/22 10:25:41 AM #3:	post 3 of 500 --- https://i.imgur.com/cEQy3f4.png / https://i.imgur.com/gWKaLHC.png https://i.imgur.com/u6JR7qX.jpeg <cite>PatrickMahomes posted [p:965830514] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>post 3 of 500 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
RealityDose 06/15/22 10:26:12 AM #4:	Scorsese2002 posted... Multispecialty I read that as multi-species and was so confused at first --- they be bumpin they be rulin <cite>RealityDose posted [p:965830528] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Scorsese2002 posted...</cite> <quote>Multispecialty </quote> I read that as multi-species and was so confused at first</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ElatedVenusaur 06/15/22 10:29:20 AM #5:	Glad to see they're adhering to the facts and not growing anti-trans hysteria. --- I'm Queen of Tomorrow baby! Remember: heat from fire, fire from heat! She/her <cite>ElatedVenusaur posted [p:965830593] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Glad to see they're adhering to the facts and not growing anti-trans hysteria. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 06/15/22 10:30:13 AM #6:	Good. Trans kids shouldn't have to suffer just to appease cis people who don't have any concern for us. --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:965830612] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Good. Trans kids shouldn't have to suffer just to appease cis people who don't have any concern for us. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Were_Wyrm 06/15/22 10:30:25 AM #7:	ElatedVenusaur posted... Glad to see they're adhering to the facts and not growing anti-trans hysteria. Facts don't care about their feelings --- I was a God, Valeria. I found it...beneath me. - Dr. Doom https://i.imgur.com/0EJvC4l.jpg <cite>Were_Wyrm posted [p:965830617] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>ElatedVenusaur posted... </cite> <quote>Glad to see they're adhering to the facts and not growing anti-trans hysteria.</quote>Facts don't care about their feelings </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DespondentDeity 06/15/22 10:30:49 AM #8:	This makes me so happy for those of us who havent been born yet and for those young enough. --- SHE: In black of night, a die is cast, heavens overflow with stars HER: All is light, all is ash, you must become just as you are <cite>DespondentDeity posted [p:965830624] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>This makes me so happy for those of us who havent been born yet and for those young enough. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DespondentDeity 06/15/22 10:31:04 AM #9:	gunplagirl posted... Good. Trans kids shouldn't have to suffer just to appease cis people who don't have any concern for us. --- SHE: In black of night, a die is cast, heavens overflow with stars HER: All is light, all is ash, you must become just as you are <cite>DespondentDeity posted [p:965830628] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>gunplagirl posted... </cite> <quote>Good. Trans kids shouldn't have to suffer just to appease cis people who don't have any concern for us.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
What_ 06/15/22 10:31:23 AM #10:	There are the experts they would know better than anybody here <cite>What_ posted [p:965830634] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>There are the experts they would know better than anybody here </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SergeantGander 06/15/22 10:33:17 AM #11:	Scorsese2002 posted... Medical intervention in any realm is *not a one-size-fits-all option*, Williams said. This is important to remember. There are stories of people that are happy from quote in OP, but there is also a community of people who are telling their stories of de-transitioning (which I didn't really know about until a twitter thread I saw yesterday and subsequent digging I did). The psychological readiness is a very important aspect of this whole discussion that I think needs to be handled very, very carefully. Edit: I'd like to share the twitter threads in question, but the content is very descriptive and somewhat graphic...and idk is that moddable? There are two threads, one from a party who is unhappy with their transition years later, and another that is very happy. Which I think both sharing their experiences is helpful to add to the conversation. --- ~Dennis~ <cite>SergeantGander posted [p:965830681] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Scorsese2002 posted... </cite> <quote> Medical intervention in any realm is not a one-size-fits-all option, Williams said. </quote> This is important to remember. There are stories of people that are happy from quote in OP, but there is also a community of people who are telling their stories of de-transitioning (which I didn't really know about until a twitter thread I saw yesterday and subsequent digging I did). The psychological readiness is a very important aspect of this whole discussion that I think needs to be handled very, very carefully. Edit: I'd like to share the twitter threads in question, but the content is very descriptive and somewhat graphic...and idk is that moddable? There are two threads, one from a party who is unhappy with their transition years later, and another that is very happy. Which I think both sharing their experiences is helpful to add to the conversation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DespondentDeity 06/15/22 10:40:12 AM #12:	SergeantGander posted... This is important to remember. There are stories of people that are happy from quote in OP, but there is also a community of people who are telling their stories of de-transitioning (which I didn't really know about until a twitter thread I saw yesterday and subsequent digging I did). The psychological readiness is a very important aspect of this whole discussion that I think needs to be handled very, very carefully. Edit: I'd like to share the twitter threads in question, but the content is very descriptive and somewhat graphic...and idk is that moddable? There are two threads, one from a party who is unhappy with their transition years later, and another that is very happy. Which I think both sharing their experiences is helpful to add to the conversation. Remember yesterday when you tried to troll a pride topic and everyone ignored you? --- SHE: In black of night, a die is cast, heavens overflow with stars HER: All is light, all is ash, you must become just as you are <cite>DespondentDeity posted [p:965830832] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>SergeantGander posted... </cite> <quote>This is important to remember. There are stories of people that are happy from quote in OP, but there is also a community of people who are telling their stories of de-transitioning (which I didn't really know about until a twitter thread I saw yesterday and subsequent digging I did). The psychological readiness is a very important aspect of this whole discussion that I think needs to be handled very, very carefully. Edit: I'd like to share the twitter threads in question, but the content is very descriptive and somewhat graphic...and idk is that moddable? There are two threads, one from a party who is unhappy with their transition years later, and another that is very happy. Which I think both sharing their experiences is helpful to add to the conversation.</quote> Remember yesterday when you tried to troll a pride topic and everyone ignored you? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ElatedVenusaur 06/15/22 10:43:13 AM #13:	SergeantGander posted... This is important to remember. There are stories of people that are happy from quote in OP, but there is also a community of people who are telling their stories of de-transitioning (which I didn't really know about until a twitter thread I saw yesterday and subsequent digging I did). The psychological readiness is a very important aspect of this whole discussion that I think needs to be handled very, very carefully. Edit: I'd like to share the twitter threads in question, but the content is very descriptive and somewhat graphic...and idk is that moddable? There are two threads, one from a party who is unhappy with their transition years later, and another that is very happy. Which I think both sharing their experiences is helpful to add to the conversation. Detransitioners are real people with real experiences, but make up an extreme minority of those who seek transition care. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2018/04/analysis-finds-strong-consensus-effectiveness-gender-transition-treatment https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 And even most of those who detransition do so not because they discovered that transition wasn't right for them, but due to social pressure from people like their parents, or fear of losing their job, marriage/etc. --- I'm Queen of Tomorrow baby! Remember: heat from fire, fire from heat! She/her <cite>ElatedVenusaur posted [p:965830899] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>SergeantGander posted... </cite> <quote>This is important to remember. There are stories of people that are happy from quote in OP, but there is also a community of people who are telling their stories of de-transitioning (which I didn't really know about until a twitter thread I saw yesterday and subsequent digging I did). The psychological readiness is a very important aspect of this whole discussion that I think needs to be handled very, very carefully. Edit: I'd like to share the twitter threads in question, but the content is very descriptive and somewhat graphic...and idk is that moddable? There are two threads, one from a party who is unhappy with their transition years later, and another that is very happy. Which I think both sharing their experiences is helpful to add to the conversation.</quote>Detransitioners are real people with real experiences, but make up an extreme minority of those who seek transition care. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2018/04/analysis-finds-strong-consensus-effectiveness-gender-transition-treatment https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 And even most of those who detransition do so not because they discovered that transition wasn't right for them, but due to social pressure from people like their parents, or fear of losing their job, marriage/etc. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
EricDraven59 06/15/22 10:43:39 AM #14:	:/ <cite>EricDraven59 posted [p:965830905] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>:/ </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Laura_Hughes 06/15/22 10:47:38 AM #15:	https://i.imgur.com/KOERy1T.gif --- Well la-dee-da <cite>Laura_Hughes posted [p:965830992] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>https://i.imgur.com/KOERy1T.gif </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SergeantGander 06/15/22 10:54:06 AM #16:	DespondentDeity posted... Remember yesterday when you tried to troll a pride topic and everyone ignored you? can't say I do, friend --- ~Dennis~ <cite>SergeantGander posted [p:965831117] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>DespondentDeity posted... </cite> <quote>Remember yesterday when you tried to troll a pride topic and everyone ignored you?</quote> can't say I do, friend </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SergeantGander 06/15/22 10:54:55 AM #17:	ElatedVenusaur posted... Detransitioners are real people with real experiences, but make up an extreme minority of those who seek transition care. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2018/04/analysis-finds-strong-consensus-effectiveness-gender-transition-treatment https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 And even most of those who detransition do so not because they discovered that transition wasn't right for them, but due to social pressure from people like their parents, or fear of losing their job, marriage/etc. But don't the experiences of those individuals matter, regardless of how small of a minority they are? --- ~Dennis~ <cite>SergeantGander posted [p:965831142] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>ElatedVenusaur posted... </cite> <quote>Detransitioners are real people with real experiences, but make up an extreme minority of those who seek transition care. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2018/04/analysis-finds-strong-consensus-effectiveness-gender-transition-treatment https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 And even most of those who detransition do so not because they discovered that transition wasn't right for them, but due to social pressure from people like their parents, or fear of losing their job, marriage/etc.</quote> But don't the experiences of those individuals matter, regardless of how small of a minority they are? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CommonStar 06/15/22 10:56:08 AM #18:	Good. <cite>CommonStar posted [p:965831169] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Good. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shablagoo 06/15/22 10:56:20 AM #19:	nice --- "if i was a woman i would mail kyle rittenhouse my panties." ~ledbowman "Out of those two? Racist for me... easily." ~Vicious_Dios <cite>Shablagoo posted [p:965831171] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>nice </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DespondentDeity 06/15/22 11:01:37 AM #20:	SergeantGander posted... can't say I do, friend https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/5/AAP2ssAADV9_.jpg the pictures in the quoted post are of anti-LGBTQIAP+ protesters in foreign countries, so its pretty obvious that the intention of your post is mocking LGBTQIAP+ people in America who are concerned about the growing anti-LGBTQIAP+ sentiment and subsequent legislation certain states are pushing through to sanction how we can live. If Im reading that wrong, then Im sure youll be happy to clear up your intentions? Also, Im not your friend, not even a little bit. --- SHE: In black of night, a die is cast, heavens overflow with stars HER: All is light, all is ash, you must become just as you are <cite>DespondentDeity posted [p:965831278] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>SergeantGander posted... </cite> <quote>can't say I do, friend</quote> https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/5/AAP2ssAADV9_.jpg the pictures in the quoted post are of anti-LGBTQIAP+ protesters in foreign countries, so its pretty obvious that the intention of your post is mocking LGBTQIAP+ people in America who are concerned about the growing anti-LGBTQIAP+ sentiment and subsequent legislation certain states are pushing through to sanction how we can live. If Im reading that wrong, then Im sure youll be happy to clear up your intentions? Also, Im not your friend, not even a little bit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SergeantGander 06/15/22 11:11:52 AM #21:	DespondentDeity posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/5/AAP2ssAADV9_.jpg the pictures in the quoted post are of anti-LGBTQIAP+ protesters in foreign countries, so its pretty obvious that the intention of your post is mocking LGBTQIAP+ people in America who are concerned about the growing anti-LGBTQIAP+ sentiment and subsequent legislation certain states are pushing through to sanction how we can live. If Im reading that wrong, then Im sure youll be happy to clear up your intentions? Also, Im not your friend, not even a little bit. Oh, honestly I completely forgot I even made that post. If I was really trolling a pride topic don't you think I probably would have stuck around and made more antagonistic comments to you know actually be disruptive? I really didn't have "intentions" with the comment, just more of an offhand remark. I guess you could attribute my remark more towards the 1st world mentality of Americans than anything. Very doom and gloom about whatever issue[s] we face while folks elsewhere in the world are busy worrying about things like food and water. Edit: damn...you sure we can't be friends? --- ~Dennis~ <cite>SergeantGander posted [p:965831529] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>DespondentDeity posted... </cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/1/5/AAP2ssAADV9_.jpg the pictures in the quoted post are of anti-LGBTQIAP+ protesters in foreign countries, so its pretty obvious that the intention of your post is mocking LGBTQIAP+ people in America who are concerned about the growing anti-LGBTQIAP+ sentiment and subsequent legislation certain states are pushing through to sanction how we can live. If Im reading that wrong, then Im sure youll be happy to clear up your intentions? Also, Im not your friend, not even a little bit.</quote> Oh, honestly I completely forgot I even made that post. If I was really trolling a pride topic don't you think I probably would have stuck around and made more antagonistic comments to you know actually be disruptive? I really didn't have "intentions" with the comment, just more of an offhand remark. I guess you could attribute my remark more towards the 1st world mentality of Americans than anything. Very doom and gloom about whatever issue[s] we face while folks elsewhere in the world are busy worrying about things like food and water. Edit: damn...you sure we can't be friends? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DrPrimemaster 06/15/22 11:23:59 AM #22:	How much breast tissue do puberty blocked afab people produce? --- Metroids Suck <cite>DrPrimemaster posted [p:965831846] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>How much breast tissue do puberty blocked afab people produce? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ElatedVenusaur 06/15/22 12:11:58 PM #23:	DrPrimemaster posted... How much breast tissue do puberty blocked afab people produce? None. That's what puberty blockers do: block puberty. Any small amount that developed before starting blockers can later be removed much less invasively than the traditional double mastectomy, is my understanding. --- I'm Queen of Tomorrow baby! Remember: heat from fire, fire from heat! She/her <cite>ElatedVenusaur posted [p:965832965] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>DrPrimemaster posted... </cite> <quote>How much breast tissue do puberty blocked afab people produce?</quote>None. That's what puberty blockers do: block puberty. Any small amount that developed before starting blockers can later be removed much less invasively than the traditional double mastectomy, is my understanding. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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COVxy 06/18/22 8:32:09 AM #25:	Scorsese2002 posted... Dr. Joel Frader, a Northwestern University a pediatrician and medical ethicist who advises a gender treatment program at Chicagos Lurie Childrens Hospital, said guidelines should rely on psychological readiness, not age. Frader said brain science shows that kids are able to make logical decisions by around age 14, but theyre prone to risk-taking and they take into account long-term consequences of their actions only when theyre much older. Coleen Williams, a psychologist at Boston Childrens Hospitals Gender Multispecialty Service, said treatment decisions there are collaborative and individualized. Medical intervention in any realm is not a one-size-fits-all option, Williams said. sounds like this doctor has a nuanced opinion on the age of consent --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:965912564] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Scorsese2002 posted... </cite> <quote>Dr. Joel Frader, a Northwestern University a pediatrician and medical ethicist who advises a gender treatment program at Chicagos Lurie Childrens Hospital, said guidelines should rely on psychological readiness, not age. Frader said brain science shows that kids are able to make logical decisions by around age 14, but theyre prone to risk-taking and they take into account long-term consequences of their actions only when theyre much older. Coleen Williams, a psychologist at Boston Childrens Hospitals Gender Multispecialty Service, said treatment decisions there are collaborative and individualized. Medical intervention in any realm is not a one-size-fits-all option, Williams said. </quote> sounds like this doctor has a nuanced opinion on the age of consent </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Gwynevere 06/18/22 9:13:48 AM #26:	Nice. Too bad they don't get to make the decisions, politicians do. A bit of a shit situation --- A hunter is a hunter...even in a dream [She/they] <cite>Gwynevere posted [p:965913026] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Nice. Too bad they don't get to make the decisions, politicians do. A bit of a shit situation </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
A_Good_Boy 06/18/22 9:20:52 AM #27:	What_ posted... There are the experts they would know better than anybody here Why listen to science-bitches when I can listen to Joe Rogan? --- Who is? I am! <cite>A_Good_Boy posted [p:965913100] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>What_ posted... </cite> <quote>There are the experts they would know better than anybody here</quote>Why listen to science-bitches when I can listen to Joe Rogan? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/18/22 9:23:45 AM #28:	At least until the fascist GOP locks up all the doctors and parents as "groomers" --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:965913131] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>At least until the fascist GOP locks up all the doctors and parents as "groomers" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/18/22 9:31:14 AM #29:	SergeantGander posted... I guess you could attribute my remark more towards the 1st world mentality of Americans than anything. Very doom and gloom about whatever issue[s] we face while folks elsewhere in the world are busy worrying about things like food and water. There will always be someone worse off than you. That doesn't invalidate their problem. "At least we all have food and water" is a awful goddamn argument against people fighting for equal rights and against discrimination. Hell, by this logic, nothing in America should upset anyone or motivate them for change because we're better off than starving African children. But no one who says this actually is completely happy-go-lucky and never concerned about anything, so it makes the argument incredibly disingenuous. Most of the time it comes from the same people who would say we need to stop "punishing the success" of billionaires. Billionaires aren't dying of thirst, so why should their tax rates matter? --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:965913212] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>SergeantGander posted... </cite> <quote>I guess you could attribute my remark more towards the 1st world mentality of Americans than anything. Very doom and gloom about whatever issue[s] we face while folks elsewhere in the world are busy worrying about things like food and water.</quote>There will always be someone worse off than you. That doesn't invalidate their problem. "At least we all have food and water" is a awful goddamn argument against people fighting for equal rights and against discrimination. Hell, by this logic, nothing in America should upset anyone or motivate them for change because we're better off than starving African children. But no one who says this actually is completely happy-go-lucky and never concerned about anything, so it makes the argument incredibly disingenuous. Most of the time it comes from the same people who would say we need to stop "punishing the success" of billionaires. Billionaires aren't dying of thirst, so why should their tax rates matter? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 06/18/22 9:34:54 AM #30:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] Gatekeeping causes significant issues and punishes transgender people, all because the rules want to be super excessive in case any cis people make it that far. --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:965913255] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> Gatekeeping causes significant issues and punishes transgender people, all because the rules want to be super excessive in case any cis people make it that far. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
action52 06/18/22 9:35:23 AM #31:	ElatedVenusaur posted... Detransitioners are real people with real experiences, but make up an extreme minority of those who seek transition care. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2018/04/analysis-finds-strong-consensus-effectiveness-gender-transition-treatment https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 And even most of those who detransition do so not because they discovered that transition wasn't right for them, but due to social pressure from people like their parents, or fear of losing their job, marriage/etc. The bold part is very important. This means that even among the people who detransition, most of them didn't make a mistake in identifying their own gender--they just underestimated how hard it would be to deal with transphobia in our society. SergeantGander posted... But don't the experiences of those individuals matter, regardless of how small of a minority they are? Sure they do. But we're talking a tiny majority, especially considering the part I bolded above. Therefore the way to respond them is to constantly try to make the counseling and preparation as good as possible in order to minimize the number of people who fall through the cracks (which they are doing). Banning or putting draconian restrictions on transitioning would be ignoring the experiences of everyone whose life has been greatly improved by hormone therapy and surgery. --- Go to this website for the TRUTH--if you can handle it! howbidenstoletheelection.com <cite>action52 posted [p:965913263] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>ElatedVenusaur posted... </cite> <quote>Detransitioners are real people with real experiences, but make up an extreme minority of those who seek transition care. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2018/04/analysis-finds-strong-consensus-effectiveness-gender-transition-treatment https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition-narrative-fueling-misconceptions-trans-advocates-say-n1102686 And even most of those who detransition do so not because they discovered that transition wasn't right for them, but due to social pressure from people like their parents, or fear of losing their job, marriage/etc.</quote> The bold part is very important. This means that even among the people who detransition, most of them didn't make a mistake in identifying their own gender--they just underestimated how hard it would be to deal with transphobia in our society. SergeantGander posted... </cite> <quote>But don't the experiences of those individuals matter, regardless of how small of a minority they are?</quote>Sure they do. But we're talking a tiny majority, especially considering the part I bolded above. Therefore the way to respond them is to constantly try to make the counseling and preparation as good as possible in order to minimize the number of people who fall through the cracks (which they are doing). Banning or putting draconian restrictions on transitioning would be ignoring the experiences of everyone whose life has been greatly improved by hormone therapy and surgery. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DespondentDeity 06/18/22 9:40:31 AM #32:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/3/8/AAP2ssAADWtO.jpg a totally sincere poster --- SHE: In black of night, a die is cast, heavens overflow with stars HER: All is light, all is ash, you must become just as you are <cite>DespondentDeity posted [p:965913354] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/3/8/AAP2ssAADWtO.jpg a totally sincere poster </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AldousIsDead 06/18/22 9:48:55 AM #33:	Man that guy sucks. What an asshole. --- In simplicity, utility. Through utility, simplicity. <cite>AldousIsDead posted [p:965913487] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>Man that guy sucks. What an asshole. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zikten 06/18/22 9:50:34 AM #34:	This is good. But its going to cause Republicans to go insane <cite>Zikten posted [p:965913515] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>This is good. But its going to cause Republicans to go insane</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hockeybub89 06/18/22 10:09:48 AM #35:	action52 posted... The bold part is very important. This means that even among the people who detransition, most of them didn't make a mistake in identifying their own gender--they just underestimated how hard it would be to deal with transphobia in our society. Sure they do. But we're talking a tiny majority, especially considering the part I bolded above. Therefore the way to respond them is to constantly try to make the counseling and preparation as good as possible in order to minimize the number of people who fall through the cracks (which they are doing). Banning or putting draconian restrictions on transitioning would be ignoring the experiences of everyone whose life has been greatly improved by hormone therapy and surgery. Banning transition because of detransitions would be like banning a surgery because 0.5% die on the table. --- http://card.psnprofiles.com/1/NIR_Hockey.png http://www.last.fm/user/hockeybub89/ <cite>hockeybub89 posted [p:965913789] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>action52 posted... </cite> <quote>The bold part is very important. This means that even among the people who detransition, most of them didn't make a mistake in identifying their own gender--they just underestimated how hard it would be to deal with transphobia in our society. Sure they do. But we're talking a tiny majority, especially considering the part I bolded above. Therefore the way to respond them is to constantly try to make the counseling and preparation as good as possible in order to minimize the number of people who fall through the cracks (which they are doing). Banning or putting draconian restrictions on transitioning would be ignoring the experiences of everyone whose life has been greatly improved by hormone therapy and surgery.</quote>Banning transition because of detransitions would be like banning a surgery because 0.5% die on the table. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 06/18/22 10:17:41 AM #36:	hockeybub89 posted... Banning transition because of detransitions would be like banning a surgery because 0.5% die on the table. For that matter, a hip replacement surgery has a regret rate of like 14-20% last I checked. Gender affirming surgeries of all kinds have less than a 1% regret rate and most of those consist of the following two issues: 1, people who had a complication during surgery or afterwards which usually came down to the surgeon and their staff not responding to calls about concerns and treating things in a timely manner) And 2, people who will be stuck paying off those surgery bills for years or forever, given the disparate unemployment rate and amount of trans people living well below the poverty line (this also includes people who got additional charges post surgery as a result of any complications during surgery which is a bit of both) It's all just so very, very messed up because if Healthcare was universal we'd probably have the rate of regret drop even further while also massively improving the quality of life for us. --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:965913916] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>hockeybub89 posted... </cite> <quote>Banning transition because of detransitions would be like banning a surgery because 0.5% die on the table.</quote>For that matter, a hip replacement surgery has a regret rate of like 14-20% last I checked. Gender affirming surgeries of all kinds have less than a 1% regret rate and most of those consist of the following two issues: 1, people who had a complication during surgery or afterwards which usually came down to the surgeon and their staff not responding to calls about concerns and treating things in a timely manner) And 2, people who will be stuck paying off those surgery bills for years or forever, given the disparate unemployment rate and amount of trans people living well below the poverty line (this also includes people who got additional charges post surgery as a result of any complications during surgery which is a bit of both) It's all just so very, very messed up because if Healthcare was universal we'd probably have the rate of regret drop even further while also massively improving the quality of life for us. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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neccis 06/21/22 7:59:26 PM #39:	gunplagirl posted... Good. Trans kids shouldn't have to suffer just to appease cis people who don't have any concern for us. It already happens much younger in some other countries of the world, and no one go's ape shit over it. Looks like America is late to the party is all. --- PSN: SlCCEN splits open to reveal jam <cite>neccis posted [p:966000049] in Trans kids... [t:80058500]...</cite> <quote>gunplagirl posted... </cite> <quote>Good. Trans kids shouldn't have to suffer just to appease cis people who don't have any concern for us.</quote>It already happens much younger in some other countries of the world, and no one go's ape shit over it. Looks like America is late to the party is all. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Trans kids' treatment can start younger, new guidelines say