Current Events > Why does "both sides" trigger so many?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm curious on why so many get so triggered, especially when it's more a reflection on tactics or behavior and not that they're both equivalently bad.

The right is obviously way worst than the other, but, for example, there's a lot of DunningKruger going on both sides. Same with hypocrisy and double standards. Or out of touch people living in bubbles.

Idk, I was just thinking about how the right is now using the state to limit rights and I'm wondering where it all stops and how the left's tactics in dealing with this seems like it's exacerbating things since the right is at the point of feeling completely victimized.

HornyLevel posted...

Idk, I was just thinking about how the right is now using the state to limit rights and I'm wondering where it all stops and how the left's tactics in dealing with this seems like it's exacerbating things since the right is at the point of feeling completely victimized.

You're blaming the left for the right wing's swing towards fascism. That's why "both sides" annoys people.

HornyLevel posted...

especially when it's more a reflection on tactics or behavior and not that they're both equivalently bad.

This is just false. Like, the vast majority of the time people say "both sides" it's to deflect away from some heinous shit the GOP is doing. >____>

pegusus123456 posted...

You're blaming the left for the right wing's swing towards fascism. That's why "both sides" annoys people.

I'm not blaming them. I'm saying the right has reached a point of feeling like victims and the left hasn't figured a better to combat that. We're all sitting here while they are limiting rights. The best we can still do is talk about how horrible they are.

I think it's fair to criticize Democrats for being complacent. There's definitely an argument to make that they rely on Republicans to enact things that actually benefit them as well, then just leave things as they are.
But "both sidesing" is often used as a deflection when people criticize Republicans, which is of course annoying. Republicans are heinous and shouldn't be excused because Democrats are also heinous.

"My side are saints. Your side are all assholes!"
That's what it is.

when i think "both sides," i think about people among my peers that represent them, and think wow, BOTH SIDES are fucking obnoxious. it's never about comparing left vs right politics directly, but rather their rabid screaming followers

Because it's usually not both sides when people say that. It's one side. Even in your example, I have no clue what you're trying to say the left is doing.

The right is limiting people's rights at the state level and the left is, what exactly? Not acknowledging that they are mad about literally anything getting done in Congress? By definition a conservative movement will never be happy about anything, they want to maintain the status quo. How do you ever negotiate with that?

Even then, do you really not see the massive disconnect in proportionality there? It's not both sides in your own example. It's one side being fascist, and the other side...doing what exactly? Not patting the other side on the back and stroking their ego every time you make a positive change in this country? It's one side at a 2/10 and the other side at a Fascism/10. It's not even comparable.

viewmaster_pi posted...

it's never about comparing left vs right politics directly, but rather their rabid screaming followers

If all you know is left and right, you've forgotten the vertical.

Rand loons are out there, and I am one.

nexigrams posted...

Because it's usually not both sides when people say that. It's one side. Even in your example, I have no clue what you're trying to say the left is doing.

The right is limiting people's rights at the state level and the left is, what exactly? Not acknowledging that they are mad about literally anything getting done in Congress? By definition a conservative movement will never be happy about anything, they want to maintain the status quo. How do you ever negotiate with that?

Even then, do you really not see the massive disconnect in proportionality there? It's not both sides in your own example. It's one side being fascist, and the other side...doing what exactly? Not patting the other side on the back and stroking their ego every time you make a positive change in this country? It's one side at a 2/10 and the other side at a Fascism/10. It's not even comparable.

Again, it's about tactics and behavior, and not which how one is worst. A couple of examples from the left.

-People thinking their sense of morality is absolute yet they basically admit they live in a bubble.
-Hypocrisy and double standards.
-Acting like cancel culture doesn't exist.
-Accusing people of being right wing, racists, bigots, Nazis and tons of the shit but having no real proof other than disagreeing over something.
-Further, assuming people don't like a piece of media because they think it's "woke", simply because some people on the right actually think that. Basically grouping everybody into one side.
-Dunning-Kruegar effect
-Blind acceptance of things just because someone from their side said it or because the other side said the opposite.
-Fearmongering over unproven shit while getting mad at the other side for fearmongering over unproven shit.
-Telling people to not be assholes, but acting like an asshole themselves.

This is where both sides come in. The right does the same shit, only with a few things switched around.

Now what's my point? The right uses all that to further justify the hate. You're right that it's gonna happen no matter what, but is that really true? It wasn't this bad before Trump.

Ultimately I think Trump is responsible for all of this, but I hope some see the point I'm making and how I feel like we're at a point of no return and need to do something different before we're all fucked.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/6/0/AACMmNAADL-E.jpg

All you have to do is say you don't like either candidate and these fucking idiots accuse you of saying both sides.

"both sides" are just thinly veiled whataboutism.

because on one side you have the rich elite who brainwash everyone else into voting against their best interests, and they hate all minorities and poor people and the middle class too.

and on the other side you have people who want to make society better for everyone

then you have these dipshits who are like "well both sides have good and bad people"

Ricemills posted...

"both sides" are just thinly veiled whataboutism.

There was never a veil.
I can cherry-pick your assholes to ambiguously justify what my side is doing now.

Ricemills posted...

"both sides" are just thinly veiled whataboutism.

But in reality, both sides do use whataboutism a lot.

Kloe_Rinz posted...

because on one side you have the rich elite who brainwash everyone else into voting against their best interests, and they hate all minorities and poor people and the middle class too.

and on the other side you have people who want to make society better for everyone

then you have these dipshits who are like "well both sides have good and bad people"

I think people thinking this is actual reality is another big problem.

Questionmarktarius posted...

I can cherry-pick your assholes

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/1/AAOjRaAABGWh.jpg

HornyLevel posted...

I think people thinking this is actual reality is another big problem.

Well explain to the class how I'm wrong and how republicans are generally good people

Same reason the Imperial system triggers so many.

From what I have seen, it comes down to 2 things:

Firstly some people interpret a claim drawing any equivalence as a declaration of 100% total equivalence across all dimensions. Which obviously is inaccurate. So these people can be hostile to the overgeneralization they interpret as happening.

Secondly, few of those who identify with "a side" associate themselves with the worst elements of "their side", but these same people often largely define the other side by it's worst elements. So by drawing an equivalence they might take it as an attack against them, that they perceive as suggesting that they are just as bad as the worst elements of the "other side".

Depending how emotionally invested someone is in the tribal side of things, it can come down to something where in effect, people have reduced things extremely.

Consider a person who has the following associations:
Republicans = horrible people
Democrats = me and people like me

When talking about a particular issue, the statement of "Democrats are just as bad as republicans." would to them read as "You and people like you are just as bad as horrible people." In effect, to them, they could read it as "You are a horrible person."

One can understand why somebody would get quite upset at that statement.

professor_jack posted...

Secondly, few of those who identify with "a side" associate themselves with the worst elements of "their side", but these same people often largely define the other side by it's worst elements

Here's the thing though. The worst elements of the Republican party are the ones in charge of it.

Just a reminder that one of the "sides" was literally a group of neo Nazis when "both sides" became a thing.

cuz they're weak

period stop

weak people

HornyLevel posted...

but, for example, there's a lot of DunningKruger going on in this post

ftfy

because it's a pretty lazy bad-faith argument or desperate attempt to be neutral when there's no reason to
there's usually the one side that s very absolutely the bad party, but people want to take any small misdeed of the other and blow it out of proportion because people think being neutral and indifferent is super cool and enlightened i guess

people's desperation to be neutral extends to simple binary questions like "which of these two do you prefer"

Because followers of each side are like zealots in a cult that constantly participate in tribalism mentality lol

Kloe_Rinz posted...

Well explain to the class how I'm wrong and how republicans are generally good people

Where did I say they're good people?

professor_jack posted...

From what I have seen, it comes down to 2 things:

Firstly some people interpret a claim drawing any equivalence as a declaration of 100% total equivalence across all dimensions. Which obviously is inaccurate. So these people can be hostile to the overgeneralization they interpret as happening.

Secondly, few of those who identify with "a side" associate themselves with the worst elements of "their side", but these same people often largely define the other side by it's worst elements. So by drawing an equivalence they might take it as an attack against them, that they perceive as suggesting that they are just as bad as the worst elements of the "other side".

Depending how emotionally invested someone is in the tribal side of things, it can come down to something where in effect, people have reduced things extremely.

Consider a person who has the following associations:
Republicans = horrible people
Democrats = me and people like me

When talking about a particular issue, the statement of "Democrats are just as bad as republicans." would to them read as "You and people like you are just as bad as horrible people." In effect, to them, they could read it as "You are a horrible person."

One can understand why somebody would get quite upset at that statement.

It makes sense that it basically boils down to some form of tribalism.

pegusus123456 posted...

Here's the thing though. The worst elements of the Republican party are the ones in charge of it.

Personally, I think the worst elements are the lower class poor Republicans since they're much easier to influence in negative ways and are quick to jump to violence. I think the rich ones are more concerned financially.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Not sure why this is bait. If you don't have anything to contribute, please don't post.

Illuminoius posted...

because it's a pretty lazy bad-faith argument or desperate attempt to be neutral when there's no reason to
there's usually the one side that s very absolutely the bad party, but people want to take any small misdeed of the other and blow it out of proportion because people think being neutral and indifferent is super cool and enlightened i guess

people's desperation to be neutral extends to simple binary questions like "which of these two do you prefer"

I think I misrepresented the "both sides" thing. I'm not exclusively talking about the memish or trollish "both sides" statement. I was being more general in that anytime people bring up bad behavior on both sides, whether they use the exact phrase or not, people start getting pissed off.

Who knows

It's intellectually lazy to assume that the truth naturally lies somewhere in the middle

MegaManXYZ123 posted...

Who knows

no one ever knows in these things

Intro2Logic posted...

It's intellectually lazy to assume that the truth naturally lies somewhere in the middle

Maybe, but it's equally intellectually lazy to assume everything one side does is right and that politics is a game of good and evil.

All said, I'm more of a neither side person. As in "neither side actually gives a fuck about you aside from your tax dollars and vote, and if you think otherwise, lol you."

Because its often used in bad faith to dismiss legitimate criticisms.

When I say both sides it's usually in reference both sides are corrupt shits only out for themselves not us.

Sometimes it's when something is brought up specifically that both sides have been guilty of. Like my grandad was bicthing about some dem that got busted for sexual harassment and he was making out like only democrats do that. Quick Google search proved him wrong. Took me like 30 seconds.

Intro2Logic posted...

It's intellectually lazy to assume that the truth naturally lies somewhere in the middle

This.

One party is full of ineffectual centrists. The other party literally wants to roll back Civil Rights and execute gay people.

Just going "both sides bad!" ignores how infinitely worse one side actually is.

NeonOctopus posted...

Because followers of each side are like zealots in a cult that constantly participate in tribalism mentality lol

This is the only way the both sides might work. When you pull back so you can see more of the picture, one side is clearly tipping the scale in terms of corruption, scumbaggery and just plain lying to their voters.

Because it was never about what's actually good for the people, and the country, but more about egoism. Agree with me, or us, or else.

Devilanse333 posted...

This is the only way the both sides might work. When you pull back so you can see more of the picture, one side is clearly tipping the scale in terms of corruption, scumbaggery and just plain lying to their voters.

This is what I was saying kinda. Both sides are corrupt. You can argue a better of two evils standpoint but you'll never convince me one side truly has my interests in their heart. And for me with my divided interests it's always a pick your poison battle.

Crazyman93 posted...

Maybe, but it's equally intellectually lazy to assume everything one side does is right

I don't see anyone actually doing that in these discussions; it's a total strawman. What I see are people reckoning with the fact that one side is seeking to enact policies and take actions that will harm some of the most vulnerable in society, and choosing to side against them.

"Enlightened centrists" are the reason why the world is burning down around us.

The GOP attempted a coup. They're pushing the US toward literal fascism. 99% of the time I hear a person use the "both sides" argument, they're using it to justify why they still support Trump despite the march toward fascism. In this context, "both sides" is a totally bullshit argument.

HornyLevel posted...

I'm not blaming them. I'm saying the right has reached a point of feeling like victims and the left hasn't figured a better to combat that. We're all sitting here while they are limiting rights. The best we can still do is talk about how horrible they are.

I'm sorry, but the right has people writing laws to eliminate LGBT people. They hate on Mexicans and blame them for their lack of self-success. They hate on Muslims just for the clothes they wear. They hate on Jews and take to the streets with swastikas in the open..... because they can. They hate on liberals for ..... what, just being liberal? .... They hate on black people and have stood up for Police at every turn where a black person killed was innocent. They hate on the individual liberties that a woman apparently doesn't have, but should.

The right is nothing but a fascist side of the political spectrum. What makes this 'both sides'? .... Because the left wants a little fucking gun control to protect themselves from crazy ass people trying to kill them?............

Sad that people still make excuses for people voting Republican and for extreme conservatives, both who openly wish harm on those they see as lesser beings.

You're part of the problem or you're just full of it and support them.

This is how most "both sides" people are
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/4/3/AAe282AADI9n.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXwew5vn2Y

Being a centrist is having no values tbh

(Certain subsets of) Americans are so obsessed with ideological puritanism (something in their collective national psyche?) that attempts at trying to be pragmatic are generally smothered by the mob. Not helping is the fact that such people tend to be sanctimonious and condescending ("holier-than-thou") about it; "both sides" is going to remain a common accusation as long as the extremists on such continue being so. No, I haven't forgotten the Jack Thompson-esque levels of buffoonery from the mid-2000s, which makes it especially frustrating that self-proclaimed "progressives" have adopted basically the same tactics (ie. bullying under the guise of "virtue").

And normally I would just say "deal with your own shit", but they're insistent on applying that line of thought onto the rest of the world, to generally negative effect.

Sure, conservative politicians and their supporters are openly trying to kill public education, openly calling for LGBT+ and other minorities to be oppressed or even killed, openly calling for women to have less rights and be forced to carry rape babies, openly calling for regulations that protect us to be eliminated, openly calling for the rich's taxes to be cut and poor/middle classes' taxes to be raised, and even more horrible things...

but the left are just sooo smug! Same thing both sides!