Board 8 > Rate the VG Story Day 300: Final Fantasy XIV [Read First Post]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Its day 300, and do time for the biggest single topic we have done so far, Final Fantasy XIV. To be specific, we will be rating:

A Realm Reborn
Heavensward
Stormblood
Shadowbringers
Endwalker
Finsl Fantasy XIV (overall)

For each of those except Endwalker, count the base expansion and the patches (so say, 2.0 through 2.55 is counted as A Realm Reborn) - for Endwalker we are just doing the main expansion itself. Now, obviously FFXIV isnt over, but the first main saga is, and thats what were rating today, and what the overall score will represent. How would you rate the story on a scale from 1-10?

You can still rate previous days games if you missed them, just write <game name><rating>. If you want to change your rating you can just specify that you are changing your rating. Nominations for future days are also welcome, nominate as many games as you like and I will get to all of them. Games need at least four votes to count for the list.

Previous Results:
Clannad - 9.75 (4 votes)
Omori - 9.67 (6 votes)
Outer Wilds - 9.61 (22 votes)
Silent Hill 2 - 9.5 (20 votes)
Planescape: Torment - 9.5 (13 votes)
Higurashi When They Cry - 9.5 (9 votes)
Deus Ex - 9.32 (12 votes)
428: Shibuya Scramble - 9.27 (9 votes)
Nier Automata - 9.25 (31 votes)
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC - 9.2 (20 votes)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Trials and Tribulations - 9.19 (35 votes)
Last Window: The Secret of Cape West - 9.15 (10 votes)
13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim - 9.1 (14 votes)
The House in Fata Morgana - 9.06 (11 votes)
Yakuza 0 - 9.03 (13 votes)
Red Dead Redemption 2 - 9 (8 votes)
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - 8.95 (31 votes)
Steins;Gate - 8.94 (9 votes)
Mother 3 - 8.91 (15 votes)
Umineko When They Cry - 8.89 (14 votes)
Zero Escape: Virtues Last Reward - 8.88 (21 votes)
Return of the Obra Dinn - 8.85 (10 votes)
Silent Hill 4: The Room - 8.83 (6 votes)
Suikoden II - 8.8 (11 votes)
Persona 3 - 8.76 (22 votes)
Nier - 8.75 (18 votes)
Grim Fandango - 8.75 (14 votes)
Xenogears - 8.73 (24 votes)
Tales of Berseria - 8.71 (15 votes)
Final Fantasy Tactics - 8.67 (27 votes)
Metal Gear Solid - 8.67 (28 votes)
Pyre - 8.64 (7 votes)
Portal 2 - 8.64 (19 votes)
Bastion - 8.63 (12 votes)
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 8.63 (32 votes)
AI: The Somnium Files - 8.59 (13 votes)
Yakuza: Like a Dragon - 8.58 (6 votes)
The Legend of Zelda: Majoras Mask - 8.57 (28 votes)
Persona 4 - 8.56 (32 votes)
Disco Elysium - 8.56 (17 votes)
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 8.53 (18 votes)
SOMA - 8.5 (6 votes)
Fate/Stay Night - 8.48 (12 votes)
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - 8.47 (16 votes)
Undertale - 8.45 (42 votes)
Dragon Quest V - 8.44 (16 votes)
Mass Effect 2 - 8.44 (29 votes)
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky the 3rd - 8.43 (12 votes)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Spirit of Justice - 8.42 (17 votes)
What Remains of Edith Finch - 8.41 (19 votes)
Chrono Trigger - 8.4 (41 votes)
Shenmue II - 8.38 (4 votes)
Snatcher - 8.33 (6 votes)
Final Fantasy X - 8.31 (56 votes)
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - 8.31 (17 votes)
Final Fantasy VII - 8.29 (38 votes)
South Park: The Stick of Truth - 8.25 (18 votes)
Dead Space - 8.25 (8 votes)
Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus - 8.23 (6 votes)
Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective - 8.21 (19 votes)
Parasite Eve - 8.19 (9 votes)
Dragon Quest XI - 8.19 (17 votes)
Final Fantasy VI - 8.19 (43 votes)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - 8.19 (43 votes)
The Walking Dead Season 1 - 8.16 (22 votes)
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies - 8.15 (17 votes)
Wolfenstein: The New Order - 8.14 (7 votes)
The Last of Us - 8.13 (35 votes)
Fire Emblem: Three Houses - 8.12 (14 votes)
Conkers Bad Fur Day - 8.11 (9 votes)
Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals - 8.11 (9 votes)
The Wolf Among Us - 8.11 (15 votes)
Horizon: Zero Dawn - 8.06 (18 votes)
Silent Hill - 8.04 (14 votes)
Portal - 8 (26 votes)
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky - 8 (18 votes)
Xenoblade Chronicles - 7.98 (28 votes)
Hades - 7.96 (22 votes)
Tsukihime - 7.94 (7 votes)
God of War (2018) - 7.93 (14 votes)
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel - 7.92 (13 votes)
Persona 5 - 7.92 (27 votes)
Life is Strange - 7.92 (32 votes)
Spec Ops: The Line - 7.9 (17 votes)
Bloodborne - 7.88 (20 votes)
Kid Icarus: Uprising - 7.86 (13 votes)
Psychonauts - 7.79 (7 votes)
Deadly Premonition - 7.77 (11 votes)
Final Fantasy IX - 7.77 (26 votes)
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn - 7.75 (14 votes)
Mario & Luigi: Bowsers Inside Story - 7.75 (10 votes)
Silent Hill 3 - 7.75 (8 votes)
Professor Layton and the Unwound Future - 7.75 (6 votes)
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - 7.75 (4 votes)
Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors - 7.73 (32 votes)
The Last of Us: Left Behind - 7.73 (11 votes)
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor - 7.73 (11 votes)
The Sexy Brutale - 7.7 (5 votes)
Bioshock - 7.65 (24 votes)
Skies of Arcadia - 7.63 (15 votes)
Paper Mario: The Origami King - 7.63 (6 votes)
Radiant Historia - 7.62 (13 votes)
Doki Doki Literature Club - 7.61 (28 votes)
Ys IX: Monstrum Nox - 7.57 (6 votes)
Celeste - 7.56 (26 votes)
Half-Life 2 - 7.55 (10 votes)
Danganronpa 2: Goodbye Despair - 7.51 (31 votes)
The Last Story - 7.47 (6 votes)
Mortal Kombat (2011) - 7.46 (13 votes)
Marvels Spider-Man - 7.43 (16 votes)
Tales of Symphonia - 7.42 (30 votes)
Dragon Age: Origins - 7.4 (10 votes)
Phantasy Star IV - 7.37 (6 votes)
Earthbound - 7.37 (20 votes)
Ghost of Tsushima - 7.36 (7 votes)
Mass Effect - 7.33 (29 votes)
Batman: Arkham Asylum - 7.33 (23 votes)
Zero Escape: Zero Time Dilemma - 7.27 (20 votes)
Tales of the Abyss - 7.25 (29 votes)
Hotel Dusk: Room 215 - 7.25 (12 votes)
Red Dead Redemption - 7.23 (11 votes)
Uncharted 2: Among Thieves - 7.21 (30 votes)
Devil May Cry 3: Dantes Awakening - 7.21 (12 votes)
Resident Evil 4 - 7.19 (25 votes)
Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony - 7.17 (25 votes)
Mass Effect 3 - 7.16 (21 votes)
Resident Evil 2 - 7.13 (16 votes)
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - 7.11 (23 votes)
The Stanley Parable - 7.11 (14 votes)
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars - 7.1 (30 votes)
Broken Age - 7.1 (5 votes)
The Last of Us Part II - 7.09 (16 votes)
Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal - 7.08 (6 votes)
To the Moon - 7.07 (7 votes)
INSIDE - 7.06 (16 votes)
Warcraft III (overall) - 7.06 (8 votes)
Assassins Creed II - 7.04 (13 votes)
Final Fantasy VIII - 7.01 (31 votes)
The Last Guardian - 7 (6 votes)
The Vanishing of Ethan Carter - 7 (6 votes)

A Realm Reborn: 6.5
Heavensward: 8.5
Stormblood: 8
Shadowbringers: 10
Endwalker: 10
Final Fantasy XIV (overall): 10

A Realm Reborn: 1

My standards might be a little off since I don't play MMOs, but this was the most lifeless video game story I've ever seen.

Didn't realize FF14 was this complex. Yikes.

A Realm Reborn - 7/10
Heavensward - 9/10
Stormblood - 7.5/10
Shadowbringers - 9.5/10

Looking forward to when I can play Endwalker.

A Realm Reborn: 3

maybe I'll get around to the expansions later this year

Overall: 9.8

The fact that the writing team that inherited 1.0/ARR's story, Ishikawa chief among them, with its cliche RPG plot, it's Saturday morning cartoon villains and it's rudderless narrative, and turned it into what we were seeing by Shadowbringers and Endwalker is nothing short of modern day alchemy.

Nominate Diablo III

A Realm Reborn - 7
Heavensward - 9
Stormblood - 6.5
Shadowbringers - 10
Endwalker - 8.8
Finsl Fantasy XIV (overall) - 9.5

A Realm Reborn - 5

So overall for FFXIV - 5

Haven't played the expansions yet but ARR was enough MMO for me.

Retro vote for

Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain - 8

Up.

ARR - 6
HW - 9
SB - 8
ShB - 10
EW - 10
FFXIV - 10

ARR - 5
HW - 9
SB - 7
ShB - 10
SW - 10

FF14 overall: 10.

Even taking into account how weak it starts and some dips along the way after it gets good, it's better than the sum of its parts. It ends up using even the parts that are weaker as you're going through them as setup for some truly amazing payoffs, and the stuff in ShB and EW wouldn't have been nearly as good without them.

plasmabeam posted...

Didn't realize FF14 was this complex. Yikes.

I mean it's not really 'complex'. It's a linear plot, not separate narratives or anything. You could liken it to a single book series and rating every book individually but also the series as a whole.

A Realm Reborn - 6.5/10.

It starts very slow and is for the first half largely stays as standard FF fare until it really gets going. With that said when you return to the Waking Sands and find half the Scions dead thats a clear shift and signals a drastic improvement. The ending is also great.

Heavensward - 8.5/10.

Now we are getting started! The way this builds on the setting of ARR is really excellent. The patch content here is some of the absolute best Final Fantasy writing around - and were we really start to see the political and philosophical themes emerge as the game leaves behind the formula of the older games.

Stormblood - 8/10.

Speaking of politics, I think Stormblood does a really good job of bringing that to the fore. It has everything you want - the human impacts of colonialism, paramilitaries, chemical weapons, popular uprisings. It does have some pacing issues, but I think its underrated although the patches have some issues.

Shadowbringers - 9/10.

What more needs to be said about this one? Easily among the best ever Final Fantasy stories and much darker and more horror tinged than I expected. Drags very slightly in the middle but the high points are among the best of any game.

Endwalker - 9.5/10.

Absolutely incredible, dealing with themes and questions I am shocked to see a Final Fantasy game tackle whatsoever. It even surpassed Shadowbringers which is a real feat. It is just a fantastically paced story as well.

Overall - 10/10.

Its more than the sum of its parts. An incredible feat of long-form storytelling.

Oh sure, individual scores:

ARR: 6
HW: 9
SB: 7.5
ShB: 10
EW: 10

@UshiromiyaEva you expressed an interest in this one.

Axl_Rose_85 posted...

A Realm Reborn - 5

So overall for FFXIV - 5

Haven't played the expansions yet but ARR was enough MMO for me.

I kinda feel like that wouldn't constitute an overall rating...!

A Realm Reborn - 6/10
Heavensward - 9/10
Stormblood - 8/10
Shadowbringers - 10/10
Endwalker - 10/0
Final Fantasy XIV (overall) - 10/10

I don't think just adding up all your scores and dividing by 5 is actually appropriate for the total here.

Also it's not up to me, but I agree that only playing ARR and then saying your vote for the game overall is the same as your ARR score is not really appropriate here.

If I read The Sorcerer's Stone I wouldn't say I could then go on to score all of Harry Potter as a whole without reading any of the other books.

I think it says a lot that other than one person who hasn't gotten around to the newest expansion yet, every single person who has voted so far has either completed every single one or has only done ARR.

Once you get over the hump, you don't stop!

As an aside, if anyone here has bounced off FF14 in the past but is still sort of interested in possibly giving it another shot, I'd recommend watching this video from someone else that had it happen to them (multiple times) but its now one of their favorite games:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LM08VrEs6k

Might help get you in the right mindset.

A Realm Reborn: 2
Heavensward: 9
Stormblood: 3
Shadowbringers: 9
Endwalker: 7
Final Fantasy XIV (overall): 7.5

I want to note for Shadowbringers that 5.0 and 5.3 are 10/10, but the other patches bring it down a bit. Heavensward is the other way around, with 3.1 through 3.5 bringing it up a lot.

A Realm Reborn: 6
Heavensward: 9
Stormblood: 7
Shadowbringers: 10
Endwalker: 10
FFXIV overall: 10

Agreed with the post above that this is more than a sum of its parts - and most of its parts are pretty damn incredible! I legit can't imagine any video game achieving what this game has in long form storytelling, it's a true masterpiece and a damn shame that even now there are so many people passing it over because it's an MMO.

dowolf posted...

Heavensward is the other way around, with 3.1 through 3.5 bringing it up a lot.

Most people seem to think I'm nuts for thinking the patches are better than 3.0, but it just seems to so obviously be the case for me?

Yeah, I dunno. I loved so much of Heavensward, but the Uldah subplot was kind of disappointing.

LordoftheMorons posted...

I kinda feel like that wouldn't constitute an overall rating...!

I'm fine with whatever Lightning Strikes decides, no big deal. I have only seen through ARR and haven't had the desire to play the expansions and I have rated many games in these topics without haven't played all their expansions.

My policy is that I will seek out expansions only for games that I really end up falling in love with and FFXIV ARR was definitely not one of them.

Looking however at the contrasting scores between ARR and the rest of the expansions, this may be a special case.

UltimaterializerX posted...

1/10 for each possible rating.

Says the person who's never played it.

I think it's fine to play ARR, quit and give the entire game the same score, tbh. It's the same as me playing half of the first Xenosaga and giving its overall story a bad score, I think. If the game's story is so boring it keeps you from playing, then that should factor into the grade.

colliding posted...

I think it's fine to play ARR, quit and give the entire game the same score, tbh. It's the same as me playing half of the first Xenosaga and giving its overall story a bad score, I think. If the game's story is so boring it keeps you from playing, then that should factor into the grade.

I disagree in both cases.

You could say the first Xenosaga game's story is bad but you cannot by definition say the rest is bad because you've never experienced it. There is a significant difference between judging something halfway that is released at one time versus something later because the writers may have changed, or the current writer may have taken feedback and gotten better. They may have also adjusted the story to focus more on what people want and less on what they didn't, etc which isn't the case with judging something that is already out and done and can't really be changed.

I DO think it's fair to not be into something based on the first entry and never give the rest a chance, though.

tcaz2 posted...

I disagree in both cases.

You could say the first Xenosaga game's story is bad but you cannot by definition say the rest is bad because you've never experienced it. There is a significant difference between judging something halfway that is released at one time versus something later because the writers may have changed, or the current writer may have taken feedback and gotten better. They may have also adjusted the story to focus more on what people want and less on what they didn't, etc which isn't the case with judging something that is already out and done and can't really be changed.

I DO think it's fair to not be into something based on the first entry and never give the rest a chance, though.

yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that someone could rate xenosaga 2 or 3 having only played the first half of xenosaga 1. definitely not.

however, I do think that in FFXIV's case, a person (not me, but Axl in this case) should be able to say "look, I played all 100+ hours of terrible fetch quests and meandering of ARR, I don't care how good people say the expansions are, my experience is enough for me to rate FFXIV given how long I played it." That person couldn't rate the expansions individually, but I think it's fair to let them give a rating for "their overall experience with FFXIV."

A better example than Xenosaga might be if the beginning of Persona 4 is really slow and boring to someone, and they give a rating of 2/10 because they never got past the first real dungeon. I'm fine with this. I disagree wholeheartedly, but that's their experience so let's count the vote.

but yeah, whatever Lightning decides is fine, obviously. I'm just saying I see the logic.

I don't even feel comfortable rating FF14 as a whole, and I've played every expansion except Endwalker.

The thing with FFXIV is that and this has even been stated by the devs, they see each expansion not as an extension, but as it's own new game release. Every expansion so the equivilant of a "New, numbered entry in the Final Fantasy franchise". Endwalker isn't simply the 4th expansion for FFXIV, it's "FFXIV-5" (well, 6, but...let's not get into that).

Other than the actual technical limits of progressing through it, every expansion is it's own complete story, it's own full game.

However, I do think an overall score for the games makes sense at THIS POINT specifically, since "Part 1" of FFXIV has just concluded. Specifically, I don't see it as an overall score for XIV, but instead as a review of "The Hydaelyn and Zodiark Saga".

To be fair, I never said I disliked the game. It was alright. The story was also ok but not great. It was just all really exhausting and a kind of a chore to play. Also I'm finding out that I'm really not into MMOs (despite putting over a 1000 hours into WoW back then) because of the way they work. If they streamline things and release an offline version of the expansions in the future, then I certainly will give them a shot. Or maybe I'll just YouTube them but I really have no motivation to do so right now.

This all might stem from the fact that the only reason why I even gave ARR a shot in the first place was because I heard really good things about the story but that fell way short of all my expectations and I have no desire to do so with the expansions. That was my FFXIV experience.

This isn't a plea for LS to accept my overall rating of FFXIV, I was just giving my take on the game.

Oh, no I knew that, just wanted to say it.

And they are essentially adding a single player option over the course of this expansion's patches! The ARR single player system is launching in about a week and a half.

colliding posted...

yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that someone could rate xenosaga 2 or 3 having only played the first half of xenosaga 1. definitely not.

however, I do think that in FFXIV's case, a person (not me, but Axl in this case) should be able to say "look, I played all 100+ hours of terrible fetch quests and meandering of ARR, I don't care how good people say the expansions are, my experience is enough for me to rate FFXIV given how long I played it." That person couldn't rate the expansions individually, but I think it's fair to let them give a rating for "their overall experience with FFXIV."

A better example than Xenosaga might be if the beginning of Persona 4 is really slow and boring to someone, and they give a rating of 2/10 because they never got past the first real dungeon. I'm fine with this. I disagree wholeheartedly, but that's their experience so let's count the vote.

but yeah, whatever Lightning decides is fine, obviously. I'm just saying I see the logic.

I don't think you can properly rate a story if you never finished the prologue. Just say you hated the game too much to finish it. You don't need to be able to rate it.